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32MB OF ESRAM posted:The entire well scene is impossibly well done. So rewarding as a viewer, it was 100% payoff . You hated this woman for so long, wanted her dead a season ago but now you just feel gross about it. you feel gross about it but you also feel relieved for her that she finally gets to die after she implies she's afraid to, and you feel happy for kevin getting rid of her and bummed that he has to do this but happy that he gets to help her push through her fear of leaving/dying and ugh it's like getting popped with a ton of little character bullets from all directions at the same time i can't get over the use of jeopardy, where you 'only have questions' so to speak, just like with death, the big mystery we only have questions about. i forget where i read this point but yeah. oof i'm in love with that episode can i marry it the Matt episode too
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Dec 24, 2015 01:35
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4 RING SHRIMP posted:Lindelof was on Andy Greenwald's Channel 33 podcast this week. Listen to it. It's really good. This was excellent. Thanks for the heads up.
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Dec 24, 2015 03:09
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marblize posted:i loved her dude That was an fascinating line to hear in a TV show. To have a character on the show call out a trope that's a huge part of the show between Holy Wayne, Isaac and Virgil is interesting - has there been discussion about this in the thread or elsewhere?
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Dec 24, 2015 08:40
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Defiantly agree that this show attracts people who have been through a sudden major loss. When it started last year I watched the first episode with a friend of mine. Within a few minutes I was hooked and understood what the GR was doing following Meg around. Even after I explained it was how they recruited he just didn't grasp the idea. I'd have to say most people aren't wired to really understand this show but there is defiantly a certain group that does. Anyway enough about that. So Kevin is a stand in for Goku because
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Dec 24, 2015 09:21
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el oso posted:That was an fascinating line to hear in a TV show. To have a character on the show call out a trope that's a huge part of the show between Holy Wayne, Isaac and Virgil is interesting - has there been discussion about this in the thread or elsewhere? If by discussion you mean "shrill complaining from someone who only knows enough about a subject to speak stupidly (but at great length) about it," then of course. If you mean something more like "smart people making insightful observations together" then no.
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Dec 25, 2015 00:59
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el oso posted:That was an fascinating line to hear in a TV show. To have a character on the show call out a trope that's a huge part of the show between Holy Wayne, Isaac and Virgil is interesting - has there been discussion about this in the thread or elsewhere? I don't really see Wayne or Virgil as really fitting the trope. Yes they're "negroes" and they're magical, but usually the magical negro trope is about an implicit "noble savage" who only exists to aid the heroes in their quests, with no motivations of their own. There's an implication that these characters are lesser, and subordinate, to the protagonists because of their race but that's ok because that lets them be closer to the magical or spiritual sides of life. It's patronizing, otherizing. Virgil actually does fit this trope more because he dies seemingly only to help with Kevin's journey, with no clear motivation of his own (besides that Erika has rejected him again). Which is probably why the writers had Ghost Patti joke about that.
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Dec 25, 2015 02:15
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This is a response to stuff Occ wrote on his 2015 TV list that I don't think is appropriate for that thread Hi Occ! I can't help but feel your interpretation of why people liked Leftovers s1 less is somewhat false. It wasn't just that it was nihilistic and uncompromising, it was that the nihilistic and uncompromising stuff was also, on many occasions, completely loving stupid. Nora and the dominatrix especially is such an indefensible scene that just screams with arms flailing "LOOK AT THIS poo poo, THIS IS SO GODDAMN MEANINGFUL, LOOK HOW SAD SHE IS!!!" For me season 2 was better because, while confident, it wasn't utterly convinced every awful idea it had was the be-all-end-all of meaningful television drama. I like what you're saying about the title sequence but my problem was the show didn't live up to that. It promised the world and could only really do as well as "dude this baby jesus poo poo it's like a battle for jill's SOUL you get it????" But then I like the scene where the fire comes out of the manhole despite it being the most Lindelof-y thing ever so who knows?
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Dec 25, 2015 23:13
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I mean, on some level I just fundamentally disagree (because i thought the nora shooting sequence was one of the season's highlights) but i get where you're coming from my explanation was centered less on why people don't like the leftovers season one and more an explanation for why they like season two more. i just don't loving agree that season two is a materially different show, i don't think it's vaguely "better" (as others have characterized it), to me seasons one and two are very much a matched pair with the main difference between them being at what "stage" of grief they're at, season one was angry and bitter and sad while season two was more accepting, hopeful, and able to move past it
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Dec 25, 2015 23:33
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i mean, to be clear, season 2 is far and away better than season 1. but to me it was an extension and refinement of ideas that season 1 had already intimated, not some sea change
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Dec 25, 2015 23:34
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Toxxupation posted:(because i thought the nora shooting sequence was one of the season's highlights) I don't mean to make you type more words today but it'd be cool if you could explain what you get out of it at some point in the future. Even really trying to consider it fairly I can't see how it's anything other than melodramatic and ridiculous, or figure out a meaning behind it besides "because she's sad and grieving people do crazy things right??? gently caress this is good stuff". And I wouldn't mind having my mind changed because the rest of the ep is goddamn good.
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Dec 26, 2015 00:19
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Yeah, I kind of feel stupid about not getting the whole Nora getting people to shoot her thing. I'm very much open to someone, anyone explaining it to me.
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Dec 26, 2015 01:35
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I liked season 1 more than 2, but I still loved the show throughout.Rupert Buttermilk posted:Yeah, I kind of feel stupid about not getting the whole Nora getting people to shoot her thing. I'm very much open to someone, anyone explaining it to me. My interpretation, so it could be way off: It was her way to stop thinking about her loss. Kind of like how an alcoholic might drink until they black out. It also had the added chance that she could die and she didn't really mind that option either.
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Dec 26, 2015 03:48
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I figured she was trying to recreate the intense pain she felt when her family departed to stay connected to them. I thought she was grabbing her chest during the departure scene which made me make the connection but it's been a while since I've seen it.
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Dec 26, 2015 05:34
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That part is just showing her externalizing her grief in a desperate way. Its like she's trying to use the adrenaline rush to help her keep going. In season two it also lets her feel like she gets what Kevin is going through, even though its not really the same. No its not a particularly profound scene, but to me its not presented as if it is. The show isn't bragging "gently caress this is good stuff", that's something you've put there Escobarbarian.
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Dec 26, 2015 05:54
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It is supposed to be a completely ridiculous scene because the point is that this character, much like other characters on the show, is insane with grief. I think you are supposed to laugh at the absurdity of the scene. Later, in S2, she says 'I pay prostitutes to shoot me', and it's a punchline.
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Dec 26, 2015 09:00
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I'd love to believe that, and it was how I approached it when I rewatched the episode, but I don't really think it comes across like that outside of the absurdity of the Slayer playing. I definitely noted that they used it as a punchline in 202 but saw that as more course-correction once they realised how ridiculous it actually was and how a lot of people reacted to it.
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Dec 26, 2015 09:26
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I took it to be her way of just feeling something, which contrasts with her job where she's a robotic question asker and yeah it's supposed to be an absurd, what the gently caress? "joke"
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Dec 26, 2015 11:58
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Yeah, I kind of feel stupid about not getting the whole Nora getting people to shoot her thing. I'm very much open to someone, anyone explaining it to me. I can at least try to do this: it's mainly a different or heightened version of cutting herself. Or a version of self-harm if you want to put it that way. As such it is very much open to interpretation why she does it because there are very different reasons people engage in self-harm, and they don't necessarily overlap even though I suppose they can. She could be doing it to combat derealization and/or depersonalization. She could do it to punish herself. I reckon there have got to be other potential reasons--I'm not a psychologist myself. Also, I wouldn't assume she consciously knows herself the real reason why. The wrinkle (why I said "mainly") is that she is involving another person in the self-harm, which I doubt is typical. As far as I can figure this means one of at least two different things. The bad/lacking/disappointing reason is that this dramatic method is one made to work best for the medium of television. The better reason is that this definitely dramatic method involving another person is an attempt to use self-harm as a way to establish a connection with another human being, however anonymous, including using money to overcome initial rejection. That explanation seems well suited to Nora's character, especially in season one. Someone here said that The Leftovers seems to be best appreciated by people who've suffered sudden loss. I can't and wouldn't argue with that, but to me it seemed like it's similarly tailor-made for people dealing with mental illness. Not that there isn't overlap there.
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Dec 26, 2015 20:18
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This is a dumb question I know., but I stopped mid season 1 as it was a massive slog. I've been hearing it hugely improves in the second season. Should finish slogging through season 1, or does the new season give a good overview of the ending so I can jump in?
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Dec 27, 2015 00:47
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As someone who quit halfway through s1 and then picked up s2 before finishing it (man regular readers of this thread must be so loving sick of me repeating myself by now) I'd say slog or watch a recap video of the season. The second half of season 1 is overall better than the first, and Justin Theroux's storyline in season 2 makes very little sense without s1 setting it up. Like I loved it but also had no idea why it was happening.
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Dec 27, 2015 00:51
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Escobarbarian posted:As someone who quit halfway through s1 and then picked up s2 before finishing it (man regular readers of this thread must be so loving sick of me repeating myself by now) I'd say slog or watch a recap video of the season. The second half of season 1 is overall better than the first, and Justin Theroux's storyline in season 2 makes very little sense without s1 setting it up. Like I loved it but also had no idea why it was happening. Like I really enjoy the concept but it just felt like it was hammering and hammering "HEY GUYS, IT'S PRETTY BLEAK HUH HUH HUH HUH" every loving episode. I also find the Guilty guys to be utterly show killing on some level since it seems like, logically, shouldn't they all be arrested for stalking/menacing people constantly? Like you can't destroy a religious movement or whatever I guess, but when they are literally following people and hangign around their homes constantly that seems pretty drat illegal.
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Dec 27, 2015 00:55
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I've had family members blow their brains out the day after being at a family gathering and parents suddenly collapsing and nearly dying from things that are typically fatal, and that first season was absolutely my poo poo, and the poo poo of one of those people. So, I dunno, I love this show and I'm really glad it gets a third season.
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Dec 27, 2015 02:18
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I started watching recently and I'm 3 episodes into season 2 and 
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Dec 30, 2015 01:09
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I'm rewatching season 1 now, and episode 2 has the scene where Jill and Amy talk about Nora in the diner. Nora slides her cup slowly off the table, the waiter comes up to her annoyed at first, but then sees that it was Nora's fault and starts apologizing to her. Apologizing to Nora because she intentionally broke a coffee cup? Well, no, he's apologizing to her because her husband and two kids vanished into thin air and left her alone and who the gently caress is gonna blame her for breaking a coffee cup? This is the world that Nora lives in, where everyone treats Nora with this tiptoeing caution to her face, but behind her back it's "Hey, that's the lady whose whole family poofed!" People pretend to give a poo poo about her everyday, but she still comes home to an empty house. If you haven't experienced a "tragedy" in your life, it's hard to explain, but at a certain point you get sick of people treating you like you don't deserve anymore pain. Nobody wants to be the person that tells the lady who lost her whole family "I don't care what you've been through, you're going to need to pay for that." That's what I think she's trying to simulate when she hires the prostitute to shoot her, she just wants someone to not care and not pretend to care about what she's been through.
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Dec 30, 2015 15:50
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The Leftovers Season 3 - "It's a great show." "I don't believe you...Because it's STUPID."
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Jan 1, 2016 11:51
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I watched the first two episodes of season 1 last year, and the show never caught on with me. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, and I finally gave in to 'What's Alan Watching?', and gave the show a complete restart. Just finished and I pretty much agree with Alan that it is the best show in 2015. The show has affected me in a way I am surprised about. I can't explain, but I feel a loss that I no longer have this show (these characters) in my daily life.
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Jan 3, 2016 06:45
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nate fisher posted:I watched the first two episodes of season 1 last year, and the show never caught on with me. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, and I finally gave in to 'What's Alan Watching?', and gave the show a complete restart. Just finished and I pretty much agree with Alan that it is the best show in 2015. The show has affected me in a way I am surprised about. I can't explain, but I feel a loss that I no longer have this show (these characters) in my daily life. Absolutely. Season 2 connects emotionally in a way I didn't think possible. People have mentioned that perhaps is having experienced loss. But I don't think it is necessarily that. I think it is having experienced hopelessness. I don't think this show would have connected as much with 18 year old me who was going to graduate in economics to solve the problems of the world. But it definitely connected deeply with me as an almost 40 year old who thinks less of changing the world and more of how many times my latest research has been cited.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:25
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I can attest to that as I've been very lucky in having no one in my immediate family or close friends pass away, but season 2 was still very emotional and powerful for me.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:37
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I marathon'd the whole series again after seeing the finale and I just need more Leftovers. Is there anything else on TV that comes close to pulling...that off? Unfortunately I don't actually know what "that" is so it makes it a bit harder to google. Lost sort of had it, though I think it absolutely would have had it if it had been on HBO instead of ABC. In case you were considering reading the book, it just doesn't have the same oomph. If you insist on reading the book anyway (the audiobook was very well narrated, for what its worth, if you're into those) there's some poo poo you need to get out of the way first to avoid possible crushing disappointments. First, Kevin isn't a cop, he's the mayor (what the gently caress?) and is independently wealthy as opposed to going insane. You watch him experience something like a mild to moderate mid-life crisis as he launches full force yet ultimately futile attempts to do things like organize an adult softball team and get laid. Jill has her head shaved for most of the book. The Guilty Remnant literally believe that the Departure was just the Rapture and at no point do they attempt to engage the townsfolk in violence. Norah and Matt aren't related, merely acquainted, and Matt shows up for maybe 20-30 pages tops.The Holy Wayne subplot is better in the book, though, and so is Tommy in general. He's Kevin's biological son, though, and that somehow made him a bit hollow at times. Kevin's dad doesn't exist. The worst part is that the Chief of Police himself appears in 1 scene wherein he is fat, suffers implied arterial cloggage and/or diabetes, and surreptitiously consumes a large blueberry muffin as the highlight of his day only to become  when caught in the act by Kevin. He is neither seen nor heard from again in any sort of memorable capacity. It's a good book, but if you were to read it cold and discover all that poo poo on your own after watching the whole series, it would seriously rain on your parade. I only mentioned the stuff that wouldn't really count as spoilers, there are many spoilerific details that also suck rather a lot...especially if your favorite episodes were the Norah and Matt ones. On the other hand, there's several scenes that are lifted basically verbatim that are neat when you notice them. It's a good story, with way more detail about the societal impact and grief/loss on a national level vs a personal one, and what that does to certain people. The people are real, honestly considerably moreso than in the show, but it just lacks "THAT" whatever it is. I need more of it. fakeedit: Fargo, both seasons, have it also...though in a different flavor.
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Jan 5, 2016 05:49
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Some Season 1 connections you may have forgotten: -The Brandenburg Carousel in the article Nora is reading in "Lens" is mentioned in the season 1 Nora episode "Guest" during a PA announcement at the Departure conference. -Matt mentions his favorite book of The Bible is Job during his conversation with Brett Butler's character, Sandy, in "No Room at the Inn." The passage he highlights for Kevin to read at Patti's impromptu funeral is from Job, as many have mentioned. What I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that the particular passage they talk about, Job's unnamed wife telling him to "curse God and die," is the same passage depicted in Albrecht Dürer's painting Job and his Wife. This is the same painting that can be seen in Matt's house and in his dreams in the season 1 episode "Two Boats and a Helicopter." -Meg's GR use whistles to sound the alarm on Tom when he's trying to lure them away. In the first season, Kevin gives the GR a box of whistles after Gladys is martyred so that they have some way to alert each other, and Laurie uses hers to disrupt Matt's commemoration of Gladys in the GR cul-de-sac. Since the houses burned down, I doubt these are literally the same whistles, but I don't think it's a stretch to say this is where Meg got the idea.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:21
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PopetasticPerson posted:I marathon'd the whole series again after seeing the finale and I just need more Leftovers. Is there anything else on TV that comes close to pulling...that off? Unfortunately I don't actually know what "that" is so it makes it a bit harder to google. Lost sort of had it, though I think it absolutely would have had it if it had been on HBO instead of ABC.
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Jan 5, 2016 17:29
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PopetasticPerson posted:way more detail about the societal impact and grief/loss on a national level vs a personal one, and what that does to certain people. By no means am I what you'd call a book reader, but this is very interesting
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Jan 5, 2016 17:32
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Fast Luck posted:I don't think I plan to read it, so could you elaborate (maybe in spoiler tags or something) a bit about how the book does Holy Wayne? Wayne hugs away pain, has a ranch, and has sex with underaged girls. He doesn't have an army, though, so they just arrest him. He makes a public confession in exchange for a few years off his prison sentence. He hugs Tommy at the beginning but he never meets Norah. Tom and Christine masquerade as barefoot people, who have their philosophy explained and discussed at length during their treck. When Tom meets Jerkstore Army Guy on the bus he converts him into a barefoot and convinces him to desert. They spend most of the time living in some Wayne sympathizer's house where she has the baby. She abandons it because it was a girl since it was supposed to be the male savior of the human race. She joins some kind of hippy caravan to go to concerts and do a lot of drugs. Tom drops the baby off with his dad and chases after her. It's better just because instead of being mysterious and presumably magical, it turns out that he's just an rear end in a top hat. Wayne's publicly televised confession helps to convince Kevin to not gently caress Aimee in a somewhat ironic twist. Having him pop up in the hotel was incredible though, easily worth whatever shenanigans we put up with in season 1 on his behalf. The following spoilers are not Wayne related but consist of the other notable departures from the source material. Also, the Kevin-Aimee thing is complicated by the fact that Kevin is old, grey haired, and probably not all that ripped which makes the whole thing a lot weirder. Kevin also tries to get Aimee onto the grownup softball team which is complicated by the facts that Aimee is not actually a grownup and the softball team is actually men only. Kevin spends some time considering the ramifications of using his Mayoral status to change the rules. The GR plot-line culminates with the revelation that they sometimes kill each other for bursts public attention. Laurie is supposed to kill Meg but chickens out so Meg blows her own brains out. It turns out that the GR love PowerPoint presentations due to the ease with which they can disseminate information to large groups without speaking. One of the presentations Laurie watches consists mostly of family photographs with the departed people edited out and replaced with blank outlines. Jill is recruited into the GR by an old teacher who talks to her online, but she backs out at the last minute. Kevin and Norah actually do go to Florida for a brief affair, but they are still broken when they get back so Norah dumps him the first time she sees him cry. The ending is exactly the same though, she writes him a letter but finds the baby when she delivers it. Anyway, on the re-watch I noticed that in season 1 Kevin's car dies while driving down the road after he tells Dennis he would like to stop dealing with the "Goddamn baby loving Jesus". Norah causes an earthquake in season 2 after inviting Jesus to fix a broken radio. Curse God and die indeed.
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Jan 6, 2016 04:22
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The music of the Leftovers is so good it's making me choke up with emotion to the loving Star Wars prequels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN74bOubUug
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Jan 8, 2016 20:12
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Damnit, that was actually really good. I'm in love with the soundtrack too and now I need to listen to it again.
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Jan 8, 2016 20:17
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Any word on a release for Season 2's soundtrack?
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Jan 8, 2016 20:21
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Lord Krangdar posted:Any word on a release for Season 2's soundtrack? I didn't find anything on Google about it. Which is a shame, cuz I'd really like that twangy Texas guitar version of the Departure theme in "Lens."
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Jan 8, 2016 20:24
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Zsinjeh posted:The music of the Leftovers is so good it's making me choke up with emotion to the loving Star Wars prequels lmao. Really.
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Jan 8, 2016 20:40
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Last Chance posted:lmao. Really.
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Jan 8, 2016 21:04
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PopetasticPerson posted:Wayne hugs away pain, has a ranch, and has sex with underaged girls. He doesn't have an army, though, so they just arrest him. He makes a public confession in exchange for a few years off his prison sentence. He hugs Tommy at the beginning but he never meets Norah. Tom and Christine masquerade as barefoot people, who have their philosophy explained and discussed at length during their treck. When Tom meets Jerkstore Army Guy on the bus he converts him into a barefoot and convinces him to desert. They spend most of the time living in some Wayne sympathizer's house where she has the baby. She abandons it because it was a girl since it was supposed to be the male savior of the human race. She joins some kind of hippy caravan to go to concerts and do a lot of drugs. Tom drops the baby off with his dad and chases after her. It's better just because instead of being mysterious and presumably magical, it turns out that he's just an rear end in a top hat. Wayne's publicly televised confession helps to convince Kevin to not gently caress Aimee in a somewhat ironic twist. Having him pop up in the hotel was incredible though, easily worth whatever shenanigans we put up with in season 1 on his behalf. Whoa, I didn't know that the Kevin/ teenage love interest were a thing in the book
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Jan 8, 2016 21:42
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