|
Yaws posted:I can't imagine anyone caring much about the characters in TPM without knowing who Anakin and Obi-Wan are and what eventually happens between the two. YMMV Two space wizards go on an adventure and pick up a kid who's great at Space-F1. What's not to like?
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 04:32 |
|
|
went back aways in the thread, didn't see this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vGjNnZhJFI Evolution of the Lightsaber Duel. lots of of neat behind the scenes stuff.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:08
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Two space wizards go on an adventure and pick up a kid who's great at Space-F1. What's not to like? the acting, the dialog, the blocking and the pacing. edit: and the blatant, shuck and jive racism
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:15
|
|
|
turtlecrunch posted:They used a lot of practical sets and miniatures in the prequels that ended up looking like poo poo CGI as well as actual poo poo CGI. Or, in other words, "Yeah, it turns out I can't actually reliably identify the difference between CGI and practical effects as well as I thought I could, but I also don't want to admit that I was wrong."
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:16
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:edit: and the blatant, shuck and jive racism We don't serve their kind.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:17
|
|
|
Gonz posted:Looks like the novelization answers a whole lot of questions the movie didn't (and raises new ones, too): I'm reading the novel right now and avoiding following this link until I'm done. There are definitely some little scenes in the novel that come out of nowhere and explain some of the minor holes in the movie. (what happens to Poe, how the starkiller works, Leia's current status with the republic). The novel also, possibly unintentionally, downplays parts of the movie I enjoyed (Finn and Rey's relationship, Rey realizing she has powers) because they happen so fast in the movie, but you can see the characters' interactions rather than just reading "rey yelled really loud at Daniel craig and he did what she wanted". I started off very skeptical myself, but I got myself into it in the mindset of a kid seeing this amazing epic story for the first time. The nerdy little 13 year old in me was captivated. So was the real 13 year old next to me, who I got to share this theater experience with for the first time. It's the beginning of another 30 years of stories!
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:18
|
|
|
Christ, I skip twenty pages ahead and the PT argument started twenty-three pages ago is still going on. At this point I'm very certain PT defenders are doing more harm than good to their favored films.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:18
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:
Oh no, people on the internet won't like the PT. This surely isn't the status quo right now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:20
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:the acting, the dialog, the blocking and the pacing. That's what almost sinks TPM for me. People say it's being subversive or whatever but seeing all those racist caricatures up there makes me a little grossed out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:20
|
|
|
Steve2911 posted:You're really aggressive and rude to people who dislike poorly received prequel trilogies. Policing how people are allowed to have a discussion is the opposite of contributing. What was wrong with what I said? Do you disagree? Let's have a conversation.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:20
|
|
|
Since when has anyone ever seriously used the content of a novelization to better understand a film? At best they're fanfic without the whole 'OC' thing.Hbomberguy posted:What exactly is aggressive about saying you think someone is wrong and explaining why you think this? Hbomberguy posted:Oh, I get it now. Dooku doesn't act like you would, and this is unthinkable.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:21
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Christ, I skip twenty pages ahead and the PT argument started twenty-three pages ago is still going on. Isn't it actually the opposite, with weirdoes so obsessed over how the prequels are "bad" that they just can't let it go? Because I see a lot more people bringing back the subject to hating the prequels than defending them, that's for sure. Let go of your hate. If you can,t like the movies, just ignore them and move on. Don't let the Dark Side dictate your life.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:23
|
|
|
Practical effects can look like CGI garbage (Alien 3) and CGI effects can look inoffensive (Hobbit trilogy environments), that doesn't change the fact that CGI gets shoehorned into a lot of places it shouldn't be, nor does it change the fact that a lot of CGI in the PT looks like charmless garbage now. Maz was okay. She was obviously CGI-with-mocap, but this is acceptable because the quality of the work (in the context of this moment in time) is fine and it's a scenario where a puppet or costume wouldn't work or be impractical (tiny smooth-skinned expressive alien that can crawl onto a table and has tiny mechanical eyeglasses). quote:Isn't it actually the opposite, with weirdoes so obsessed over how the prequels are "bad" that they just can't let it go? Because I see a lot more people bringing back the subject to hating the prequels than defending them, that's for sure. No because, having read the beginning of this awful tangent, I am explicitly aware that this started with a couple of people accusing TFA of being a soulless marketing cash-grab that rips off the PT and does an inferior job of the concept. I'm not sure how anyone could read those posts as anything but passive-aggressively inflammatory. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Dec 30, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:23
|
|
|
Steve2911 posted:Since when has anyone ever seriously used the content of a novelization to better understand a film? At best they're fanfic without the whole 'OC' thing. Hahaha you must be new to this thread.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:25
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:Isn't it actually the opposite, with weirdoes so obsessed over how the prequels are "bad" that they just can't let it go No? Most of these conversations in this thread start because someone brings up the prequels as a positive counterpart to the new film . This particular one started because of that in fact. On the internet as a large sure but the internet as a large has very very very little in common with CD.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:27
|
|
|
A poster literally said "TFA and Star Wars under disney is bad because eternal marketing. Decades of toy marketing under George Lucas was good because I liked the marketing so it has a soul, or something"
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:28
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Maz was okay. She was obviously CGI-with-mocap, but this is acceptable because the quality of the work (in the context of this moment in time) is fine and it's a scenario where a puppet or costume wouldn't work or be impractical (tiny smooth-skinned expressive alien that can crawl onto a table and has tiny mechanical eyeglasses). I didn't like Maz but shoutouts to the big fat boss alien and his girlfriend, the aliens that were just gigantic giggling flies, the mummy/hagfish thing, the droid that calls for the Resistance, and those adorable aliens Finn tries to go with where one has a peg leg and the other one holds its arm as they leave. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:28
|
|
|
The novelizations are usually based off of complete scripts and other documents that didn't make it all the way to the screen and we're lost in the editing bay or rewrites, so they do provide some insight. I haven't read them but apparently all the assumptions I made about the plot were correct and backed up in it, so hooray?
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:29
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:No? Most of these conversations in this thread start because someone brings up the prequels as a positive counterpart to the new film . This particular one started because of that in fact. Oh, so the issue is that someone mentions the PT in a positive light, not that people are unwilling to accept (any part of) the PT in a positive light.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:30
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Practical effects can look like CGI garbage (Alien 3) and CGI effects can look inoffensive (Hobbit trilogy environments), that doesn't change the fact that CGI gets shoehorned into a lot of places it shouldn't be, nor does it change the fact that a lot of CGI in the PT looks like charmless garbage now. Have you seen the PT on bluray? I got them recently and the CGI really pops and looks mostly good to great. The establishing shots in particular really stand out. One thing I had forgotten about is how loving barren some of the scenes are though. Characters talking in giant mostly empty rooms and walk down these giant majestic but empty corridors. It's weird.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:30
|
|
|
Was Unkar Plutt all practical? I remember something about Disney making animatronics controlled through mo-cap, and I thought he looked really good
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:32
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Oh, so the issue is that someone mentions the PT in a positive light, not that people are unwilling to accept (any part of) the PT in a positive light. No? Unless you're saying that someone should mention the PT in a positive light and nobody should ever respond to what they post. (Which is at least kinda insulting to Cnut who puts a good amount of effort into his posts.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:33
|
|
|
Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:Have you seen the PT on bluray? I got them recently and the CGI really pops and looks mostly good to great. The establishing shots in particular really stand out. The environments look ok at times, but the Blu Rays seriously highlight how bad CGI objects and characters look in motion. Yoda, Dexter and the separatists in particular. Being 'of the time' isn't an excuse in the same year that The Two Towers came out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:33
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:A poster literally said "TFA and Star Wars under disney is bad because eternal marketing. Decades of toy marketing under George Lucas was good because I liked the marketing so it has a soul, or something" Wow, we've moved on quite a lot from that original post to the point where we're just repeating the same boring arguments again. I mean, that's a bad opinion, but it has nothing to do with wether the prequels are good or not and everything to do with someone not noticing that the marketing were basically the same both times.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:36
|
|
|
Yaws posted:The only SW movie that resonates without knowledge of the previous films is ANH. All the rest rely on you having knowledge of the past movies/characters. TFA is no different. Untrue. All the previous films begin in media res, and you don't skip anything important. After A New Hope, Luke just fought in some minor battles. After Phantom Menace, Anakin was just in school, etc. Lucas skips over the parts where people are just doing their jobs. This is pretty ballsy at times - like when he skips over the entire clone war because it's pointless. Objectively speaking, Force Awakens is an aberration because crams three films' worth of plot into the gap between Episode 6 and Episode 7. There's a simple explanation for this: Episode 7 is, primarily, a thematic sequel to Episodes 1-3. Abrams treats the events of those films as if they are, loosely, what happened to the New Republic and Luke's jedi training school. Kylo joined the dark side for roughly the same thematic reasons as Anakin, and the New Empire emerged for roughly the same thematic reasons as the Old Empire. However, Force Awakens 'needs' to explain these events in plot terms, because Anakin and Kylo are not literally the same. Hence, we have flashbacks and expository dialogue about the plot. The episodes are obviously numbered 1234567. However, because of Force Awakens, the actual plot goes 1234561237. The part in italics is a sort of 'ghost trilogy', generated retroactively through the expository dialogue and flashbacks.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:39
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:No? Unless you're saying that someone should mention the PT in a positive light and nobody should ever respond to what they post. What I'm saying is that there are certain elements of the PT that are positive, and maybe even better executed than the other films (TFA specifically, since that's the new one). If there's not a single element that can just be acknowledged with "oh yeah, I guess the PT did that better than TFA", or even "Oh yeah, I guess the PT did do that pretty well", then the burden of argument is not on the people who bring up the PT.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:39
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Anakin was just in school, etc.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:41
|
|
|
I just realized there's a derelect ship out around Jakku full of Rathgars lol. Bet that king is gonna be irritated at Chewie when his rathgar exhibit at his royal zoo is a no show
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:42
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Oh, so the issue is that someone mentions the PT in a positive light, not that people are unwilling to accept (any part of) the PT in a positive light. I liked the political message of the PT. For Lucas to use what was, at the time, the world's biggest stage to try and dismantle the propaganda of America's foreign policy was incredibly brave. The fact that he ended up making objectively bad movies ultimately undermined this, but I'll always give him props for trying.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:43
|
|
|
computer parts posted:If there's not a single element that can just be acknowledged with "oh yeah, I guess the PT did that better than TFA", or even "Oh yeah, I guess the PT did do that pretty well", then the burden of argument is not on the people who bring up the PT. What if people don't agree that the PT did it better? I'm honestly confused by what you mean here. You seem to be saying that there are parts of the PT that people should just be willing to unquestionably say are better without argument and that's silly. Edit: That argument would be silly applied to the OT too or the new film. If people want to say something is better then, yes, the burden of proof is on them to make an argument supporting it instead of taking it as given. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Dec 30, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:43
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Untrue. All the previous films begin in media res, and you don't skip anything important. After A New Hope, Luke just fought in some minor battles. After Phantom Menace, Anakin was just in school, etc. SuperMechagodzilla posted:The episodes are obviously numbered 1234567. However, because of Force Awakens, the actual plot goes 1234561237. The part in italics is a sort of 'ghost trilogy', generated retroactively through the expository dialogue and flashbacks. This is true however. My only defense of this is that it didn't bother me 
Yaws fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Dec 30, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:44
|
|
|
computer parts posted:TPM didn't really require you to know the previous movies. Knowing (for example) who Palpatine was makes his scenes resonate more, but you can say the same thing about Vader's scenes in ANH (especially when he's fighting Luke in the trench run). There was a thread a few years back where someone watched Episode I for the first time without having seen the rest. The two things that stuck out to me about his (her?) reaction were that he actually liked the political stuff (he thought it was satirical) and he was annoyed that not once in the movie did anyone explain what the hell "the force" was. He seemed to like it overall, so maybe seeing the previous movies isn't a "requirement", but it didn't sound like it made for a comfortable introduction to the Star Wars universe.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:44
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:objectively bad movies 
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:44
|
|
|
Panfilo posted:I just realized there's a derelect ship out around Jakku full of Rathgars lol. Bet that king is gonna be irritated at Chewie when his rathgar exhibit at his royal zoo is a no show Presumably the remaining members of the Guanum Death Gang (I don't really know exactly what these guys were called, I think that's what he said) and Kanja Klub delivered them for the fee and took the ship yeah? At least the leader of the Death Gang is still alive at the end because he gives the departing Falcon a death stare and reports them to FO.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:44
|
|
|
Yaws posted:It would have been nice to see that though. Maybe see what made him go from being a precocious little kid to the mass murderer he was in AotC. Padme the enabler. She should have been like 
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:47
|
|
|
Steve2911 posted:Oh man, seriously? This is the period in which Anakin learns to become a Jedi and actually has a friendship with Obi Wan. It's arguably more important than anything that happens in TPM. That may be what you believe, but it is not true. The same point was used in Empire Strikes Back: Luke joins the rebellion, then we skip directly to him feeling disillusioned and ready to quit. His entire career with the rebels is just a blank. It's not important. Luke even feels like he's wasted his time. The same is true in Attack Of The Clones. Anakin joins the Jedi, then skip to ten years later and he looks completely different and acts like a brainwashed cultist. The sudden, shocking reversal of expectations is the entire point in both cases.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:52
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:
What?
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:58
|
|
|
Whether you liked them or not, the prequels were objectively bad movies. Every dialog scene is shot for coverage and then cut from master to OTS, back and forth, back to master, end scene. Every single one. Like a soap opera. There is almost no illustrative action or urgency in any dialog scene in the entire trilogy. We could argue back and forth about the quality of the dialog, the lack of stakes or consequence in the action scenes, the direction that sucked the soul out of every actor in the film. But the cinematography and blocking was objectively bad by any standard of filmmaking, and those two things are central to the quality of any film. I like plenty of objectively bad movies. Go see Deadly Prey if you haven't, it's glorious. But I'm able to admit that they're objectively bad.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 19:58
|
|
|
I think Anakin in TPM would have gone over better if he was played by someone who wasn't Jake Lloyd
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 20:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 04:32 |
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The same point was used in Empire Strikes Back: Luke joins the rebellion, then we skip directly to him feeling disillusioned and ready to quit. His entire career with the rebels is just a blank. It's not important. Luke even feels like he's wasted his time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2015 20:01
|
|
