Europa Universalis IV: Buying all the DLC is just Common Sense

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PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Lori is spot on, I checked the decision files, East Slavic (the Russians of various stripes) and Finno-Ugric (Finland and Perm basically, but Finland is already Western, so Perm) can use Danzig or Prague to westernize by decision, for everyone else it's Prague or Vienna.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 05:15

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# ? May 16, 2024 20:19

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Man I have been trying to get a Mongol game but it is rather difficult, or I am impatient either or.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 06:42

Node: May 20, 2001; KICKED IN THE COOTER; Taco Defender

Odobenidae posted:

Those missions only fire if the mamluks own a province in the levant/egypt IIRC, and if they take the mission while you own a province in egypt it only gives them claims on the mamlukean lands. Sharing that area with the ottomans is tricky, before the Cossacks I could never keep good relations with them, it was just a matter of time before they turned on you. The only times I've done it since I've been swimming in favours with them so they were at least content with me existing in the area.

PittTheElder posted:

If you're reforming as a Horde, you're forming Qing for the achievement, or you're doing it wrong.

Yes. They still need to take those provinces to complete the mission, and they will immediately drop the alliance to do it.

I'm having some reading comprehension issues here. If I understand correctly, for example, if I occupy provinces in Egypt BEFORE the Ottos take the Conquer Egypt mission, they will get claims only on the Mamlukean provinces in Egypt when they do take the mission. Mine will be safe from Ottoman rampages (for the time being.) Is that right?

# ? Jan 1, 2016 07:00

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Correct. The scoping of those Ottoman missions specifically grants claims on all provinces owned by the Mamluks in the particular regions, and the mission completes when they own those provinces. If you check the mission file you'll see this:

code:

conquer_levant = {
...
	target_provinces = {
		OR = {
			area = aleppo_area
			area = syria_area
			area = palestine_area
		}
		owned_by = MAM
	}

code:

conquer_egypt = {
...
	target_provinces = {
		owned_by = MAM
		OR = {
			area = gharbia_area
			area = sharqiya_area
			area = central_egypt_area
			area = upper_egypt_area
			area = cyrenaica_area
			area = libyan_desert_area
		}
	}

Which is sufficiently straightforward that I won't stop to explain it. So if you take provinces in those areas before the Ottomans take the missions, you're good to go, relatively speaking. If you grab any of those provinces after they've taken the mission, they remain target provinces for the mission, and they'll come at you like a man with a fistful of hammers and a trunk full of duct tape and zip ties.

Then the provinces they mark as of vital importance are different entirely. Generally the AI will mark all territory owned by it's rivals or enemies as "vital", but once you take them from said rival they won't care at all.

For this case in particular, what you really want to do if at all possible is snipe Judea from the Ottomans while they don't have the Conquer Levant mission, because that will block them from being able to take the Conquer Egypt mission. Barring that, take Egyption provinces in such a pattern that once they're done conquering the Levant, they no longer share a border with the Mamluks.

PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Jan 1, 2016

# ? Jan 1, 2016 07:15

Wafflecopper: Nov 27, 2004; I am a mouth, and I must scream

Austria just inherited Great Britain in my game. :stare:

They also control most of Mexico, Central America, Colombia and the Carribean as CNs. Glad they're on my side.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 07:28

Chicken: Apr 23, 2014

PittTheElder posted:

Lori is spot on, I checked the decision files, East Slavic (the Russians of various stripes) and Finno-Ugric (Finland and Perm basically, but Finland is already Western, so Perm) can use Danzig or Prague to westernize by decision, for everyone else it's Prague or Vienna.

Thanks! Austria's taken all of Switzerland and most of northern Italy already so that'll be a tough nut to crack, but Bohemia is getting destroyed by a bunch of OPMs so I might be able to take Prague. I'm not sure its worth dealing with all the unlawful territory penalties though.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 11:24

Star: Jul 15, 2005; Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.; Fallen Rib

I am going for the jihad achievement but it's a lot harder than I thought. It's around the 1650s and I only got 200ish provinces so I need to more than double that in 150 years to make it. I have a hard time seeing how I could do that even with admin efficiency and colonization. But at least najd is a really fun country to play, I love the Arabian peninsula.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 18:17

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Well keep in mind that your growth tends to be exponential. It's a lot easier to conquer loads of land when you're already huge, and you've got all your ideas in place.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 18:56

Pellisworth: Jun 20, 2005

It's not really a huge problem but it would be cool if Wiz and crew looked at AI ignoring naval attrition at some point.

I have a good Kazan start going, smashing up Muscovy in 1460. They're allied to Denmark, who is landing troops in my Crimean provinces :shepface:

Edit: I know AI ignoring naval attrition is intended, but they're also supposed to stay within naval range. They don't, so you get weird poo poo like Hungary landing troops in the Caribbean in 1550 or Denmark tossing transports and troops into the Black Sea in 1460.

Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jan 1, 2016

# ? Jan 1, 2016 20:08

Bishop Rodan: Dec 5, 2011; See you in the funny papers, liebchen!

Wiz, can you please make it so that the AI doesn't consider ALL its rivals provinces to be of vital interests? This is like the third time now I've had a centuries-long ally break the alliance because we both rivalled the Ottomans and thus had overlapping interests.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 21:09

Pellisworth: Jun 20, 2005

Also, first idea picks for Kazan? I'm guessing Admin and get the coring discount right away, but Humanist seems attractive with Kazan's NIs and how quickly you can conquer.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 21:09

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Either Admin or Humanist. They will definitely be your first and third idea picks. The WC pros go Admin, but I consistently find rebels to be the most limiting part of a horde run, so Humanist first instead of Admin might not be a bad idea.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 21:13

Arzakon: Nov 24, 2002; "I hereby retire from Mafia"
Please turbo me if you catch me in a game.

In my opinion Diplo because you should have 1749 Dip saved and can get to the 6th idea for province war score cost and your 25% core reduction NI near instantly. Taking an admin idea first slows down getting to both 25% reductions. Humanist is third.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 21:43

Tahirovic: Feb 25, 2009; Fun Shoe

Admin first is a math thing, quicker + cheaper coring pays back the earlier you get it.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 21:43

Pellisworth: Jun 20, 2005

Arzakon posted:

In my opinion Diplo because you should have 1749 Dip saved and can get to the 6th idea for province war score cost and your 25% core reduction NI near instantly. Taking an admin idea first slows down getting to both 25% reductions. Humanist is third.

I almost think Trade first might not be a bad idea, I'm most starved for cash and Admin points.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 22:09

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

The cash thing never really goes away, trade only allows you to run a marginally bigger army. You'd be better off just building the army and then looting it's maintenance.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 22:43

Pellisworth: Jun 20, 2005

PittTheElder posted:

The cash thing never really goes away, trade only allows you to run a marginally bigger army. You'd be better off just building the army and then looting it's maintenance.

Yeah, I was leaning toward Admin and went with that, the 10% Goods Produced you eventually get is pretty solid for income anyhow.

What about military idea picks? All of them are gonna be good but curious if there's a "pro" early pick. Quality seems a bit less appealing since you're not going to make a lot of use of the infantry combat ability and ship stuff (at least early on). I'd lean toward Offensive or Defensive, Aristocratic wouldn't be bad either really.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 22:53

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

Pellisworth posted:

I almost think Trade first might not be a bad idea, I'm most starved for cash and Admin points.

Trade might be good in the short term, but I feel like it'll be worthless in the long term.

How's your military tech looking? If you have some points to spare, I'd say Plutocracy or Quantity. These both have minor economic benefits and good military benefits, and you can always just declare a quick war and loot someone if you need ducats.

Second idea I think you almost have to go Administrative. Really it should be your first idea, IMO, but if you're starved for admin points then there's not much you can do about that.

e; Does Kazan get Aristocratic? That would be really good

# ? Jan 1, 2016 22:56

MrBling: Aug 21, 2003; Oozing machismo

I started a game as Holland and almost immediately the king of Burgundy dies with negative presite so I end up free but with 20 legitimacy and a weak legitimacy heir. The king dies after a few years and I get a 13 year regency.

Nothing like sitting at 0 (or worse) prestige and 0 legitimacy for long periods of time. At least I managed to declare war on Utrecht before my king died.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 22:56

dublish: Oct 31, 2011

Wafflecopper posted:

Austria just inherited Great Britain in my game. They also control most of Mexico, Central America, Colombia and the Carribean as CNs. Glad they're on my side.

I got a PU over Austria in 1447 in my current England game. gently caress France. :smug:

# ? Jan 1, 2016 23:04

Ithle01: May 28, 2013

Star posted:

I am going for the jihad achievement but it's a lot harder than I thought. It's around the 1650s and I only got 200ish provinces so I need to more than double that in 150 years to make it. I have a hard time seeing how I could do that even with admin efficiency and colonization. But at least najd is a really fun country to play, I love the Arabian peninsula.

It gets much easier as you go on. Administrative efficiency is stronger than you think and now that you're bigger wars will go faster. You should basically be non-stop warring everything in your path and burning your way East through Asia.

For my Golden Horde WC I went humanist - trade - administrative - offensive - influence - doesn't matter. Two things: first, Kazan has better ideas, not having to wait to get the coring discount is huge. Second, I'm not sure about trade second, but it did somewhat help me because I really needed the five merchants to avoid getting screwed out of Asian trade money and that formed about 45% of my income. Quantity may have worked just as well if not better though. However, at that point I wasn't buried in mil points yet so it may have hurt me to take military ideas when I can't change out of admin focus.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 23:23

Pellisworth: Jun 20, 2005

QuarkJets posted:

Trade might be good in the short term, but I feel like it'll be worthless in the long term.

How's your military tech looking? If you have some points to spare, I'd say Plutocracy or Quantity. These both have minor economic benefits and good military benefits, and you can always just declare a quick war and loot someone if you need ducats.

Second idea I think you almost have to go Administrative. Really it should be your first idea, IMO, but if you're starved for admin points then there's not much you can do about that.

e; Does Kazan get Aristocratic? That would be really good

As a horde I'm drowning in military and diplo points, no problem keeping up in tech parity even at 175% cost due to razing.

Aristocratic is an option but I'm not super familiar with horde combat and dunno if the cav cost/combat ability is as strong as it seems. It's pretty much a tossup between Offensive, Defensive, and maybe Aristocratic for me.

Edit: I guess maybe Defensive isn't quite as attractive as I normally find it, since Kazan gets some of the best stuff (morale, +Maneuver, fort defense) in its NIs. So prob Offensive or Aristocratic

Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Jan 1, 2016

# ? Jan 1, 2016 23:23

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Pellisworth posted:

Yeah, I was leaning toward Admin and went with that, the 10% Goods Produced you eventually get is pretty solid for income anyhow.

What about military idea picks? All of them are gonna be good but curious if there's a "pro" early pick. Quality seems a bit less appealing since you're not going to make a lot of use of the infantry combat ability and ship stuff (at least early on). I'd lean toward Offensive or Defensive, Aristocratic wouldn't be bad either really.

What's your goal? If you're trying to do a WC, you might want to skip military ideas altogether. Go Admin, Influence, Humanist, Diplomatic, and then dump your spare military points into suppressing revolts you're not prepared for, and developing your core provinces for manpower. Then use your ideas for ridiculous vassal feeding.

If that doesn't appeal to you, take Quantity. What you need more than anything is more guys to cover all theatres simultaneously.

If you're playing a more relaxed game where you can afford all cavalry armies, the Cav combat ability from Aristocratic really is awesome.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 23:40

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

I just started a game as Brandenburg. I allied with Poland, thinking they would help me in taking back my core from the TO, but they called me into war against them first. No big deal, I'll just mark Neumark as a critical province and I'll get it in the peace deal. So I grabbed Neumark for myself and sieged down a few Teutonic forts for them. But when the war ended, I got nothing but some prestige and PP, and a 15 year peace treaty with the TO.

Now, if I was Poland and had done the same thing, what would happen? First, I'd have to promise Brandenburg territory from the war. If I went back on this promise, I'd suffer a relations penalty, lose trust, and be completely unable to promise territory to any other ally for answering a CTA for the next 20(?) years. I'd probably also lose the alliance. But since Poland is the AI, they don't play by the same rules. I get screwed, and Poland suffers no penalty whatsoever.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 23:47

Pellisworth: Jun 20, 2005

PittTheElder posted:

What's your goal? If you're trying to do a WC, you might want to skip military ideas altogether. Go Admin, Influence, Humanist, Diplomatic, and then dump your spare military points into suppressing revolts you're not prepared for, and developing your core provinces for manpower. Then use your ideas for ridiculous vassal feeding.

If that doesn't appeal to you, take Quantity. What you need more than anything is more guys to cover all theatres simultaneously.

If you're playing a more relaxed game where you can afford all cavalry armies, the Cav combat ability from Aristocratic really is awesome.

I don't hate myself enough to attempt a WC, done that before. Grab the Tatarstan achievement and see where it takes me, I'm not super interested in a tryhard run but am having fun and going to stick with it for a while.

I guess I'm mostly unsure of how well the horde combat bonuses play out as the game progresses.

Here's my map ca. 1500. Featuring Bukhara (recently formed from Uzbek, lol why'd you stop being a horde) about to get wrecked.

(Imereti is my march, Poland/Lithuania my bro)

# ? Jan 1, 2016 23:51

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Ah, in that case it doesn't really matter, but going Aristocratic for the combat ability will be straight up hilarious. Combat Ability means you damage the enemy that much harder/faster, so it goes a long way for huge stack wipes.

Fister Roboto posted:

I just started a game as Brandenburg. I allied with Poland, thinking they would help me in taking back my core from the TO, but they called me into war against them first. No big deal, I'll just mark Neumark as a critical province and I'll get it in the peace deal. So I grabbed Neumark for myself and sieged down a few Teutonic forts for them. But when the war ended, I got nothing but some prestige and PP, and a 15 year peace treaty with the TO.

Now, if I was Poland and had done the same thing, what would happen? First, I'd have to promise Brandenburg territory from the war. If I went back on this promise, I'd suffer a relations penalty, lose trust, and be completely unable to promise territory to any other ally for answering a CTA for the next 20(?) years. I'd probably also lose the alliance. But since Poland is the AI, they don't play by the same rules. I get screwed, and Poland suffers no penalty whatsoever.

Did they call you in with favors? They're much bigger than you, and so would accumulate them quickly. If you call an AI in with favors you don't have to give them anything, and that's quite possibly how the AI made that call. That or it thinks you gave like no war contribution; I think that calculation is based on losses, meaning if you're stack-wiping and winning quick sieges you don't get much contribution score.

On the other hand, I don't even know if the whole favors or promise land thing applies to the player at all, or if the UI even tells you.

Long story short, when playing Brandenburg, you have to be very aggressive about driving your alliance with Poland.

PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Jan 1, 2016

# ? Jan 1, 2016 23:54

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

PittTheElder posted:

Did they call you in with favors? They're much bigger than you, and so would accumulate them quickly. If you call an AI in with favors you don't have to give them anything, and that's quite possibly how the AI made that call. That or it thinks you gave like no war contribution; I think that calculation is based on losses, meaning if you're stack-wiping and winning quick sieges you don't get much contribution score.

On the other hand, I don't even know if the whole favors or promise land thing applies to the player at all, or if the UI even tells you.

Long story short, when playing Brandenburg, you have to be very aggressive about driving your alliance with Poland.

It was 1445, there's no way they could have accrued 10 favors in a few months.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 23:56

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Well, now they've tanked your trust and you should break the alliance! :v:

# ? Jan 1, 2016 23:58

VDay: Jul 2, 2003; I'm Pacman Jones!

PittTheElder posted:

Well keep in mind that your growth tends to be exponential. It's a lot easier to conquer loads of land when you're already huge, and you've got all your ideas in place.

Also Admin Efficiency starts kicking in at some point and you eventually unlock the Imperialism CB, which basically lets you swallow up any country in one war unless they have like 500+ development.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 23:59

Scrree: Jan 16, 2008; the history of all dead generations,

Anyone have any good advice for starting as a minor in the HRE? I've tried to get several Hesse games going but always get murdered to poo poo just before the Reformation starts. It's a real shark pit.

Like, is there any way to vassal feed reliably within the HRE? If I'm allied with the Emperor will they know not to ask my vassals for unlawful territory, or if I do get provinces marked by the modifier can I safely give away those provinces to core without the Emperor double dipping? Fighting a war on for one of my vassals claims only for them to give it right back when the Emp. asks has been a... frustrating experience.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 00:13

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Don't vassalfeed in the HRE. You get full AE for feeding them and then another -30 penalty when you annex them. Plus stuff like them returning the territory.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 02:53

Pellisworth: Jun 20, 2005

Any expansion inside the HRE is a huge pain in the dick, slightly less so if you're a member.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 06:26

BigRoman: Jun 19, 2005

I haven't played in a while, but I just picked up Cossacks and decided to try out the new version with France. Things are going fine and I end up becoming the emperor. When the reformation fires, it starts in Utrecht a OPM directly on my border. I'm in a war with Austria, so I leave them alone for a while. A center of the reformation pops up in Gelre (another OPM on my border where I have a claim). After I peace Austria I attack Gelre and force convert them. Then I attack Utrecht (I had to fabricate a claim), but when I go to make peace, there is no option to force religion. I think it may be a bug, so I try vassalizing them and then forcing them to convert via subject interactions, but it says that we're the same religion.

Is this working as its supposed to? Can you not force religion on the original center of the reformation? Ever?

# ? Jan 2, 2016 14:56

Tahirovic: Feb 25, 2009; Fun Shoe

Forcing religion changes their Staate Religion, in this case Utrecht probably didn't convert and stayed Catholic. Afaik this can happen with the events for the AI.

For the Kazan Ideas, getting Admin as first and filling it up to the core creation cost buff and then picking a mil Idea as secondary seems to be the best option, this should be Aristocracy or Quantity.
One thing that might be interesting is trying to find a trick to keep the Horde Government while becoming a republic, but I doubt they've left any fun exploits like that in.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 16:34

Yashichi: Oct 22, 2010

Tahirovic posted:

Forcing religion changes their Staate Religion, in this case Utrecht probably didn't convert and stayed Catholic. Afaik this can happen with the events for the AI.

For the Kazan Ideas, getting Admin as first and filling it up to the core creation cost buff and then picking a mil Idea as secondary seems to be the best option, this should be Aristocracy or Quantity.
One thing that might be interesting is trying to find a trick to keep the Horde Government while becoming a republic, but I doubt they've left any fun exploits like that in.

Razing and all the fun mechanics are tied to horde government, which would be replaced if you became a republic.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 21:00

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Hordes don't really need to be Republics anyway. They don't get regencies, and razing forms such a huge portion of your monarch point income that it doesn't matter what your ruler's stats are. At one point I noticed I hadn't had my king die in a while, and only then did I notice that I'd had a 0/4/0 ruler for 40 years. :v:

# ? Jan 2, 2016 22:42

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Did I miss the patchnote where the +% available mercenaries ideas no longer increase force limit? They seem almost completely useless now.

# ? Jan 3, 2016 02:16

Pellisworth: Jun 20, 2005

cool and good posted:

Did I miss the patchnote where the +% available mercenaries ideas no longer increase force limit? They seem almost completely useless now.

Yeah that makes +Available Mercenaries bonuses pretty terrible.

However, mercs automatically upgrade now so you don't need to re-hire when you tech up. So they're still as useful as ever, if not more so.

# ? Jan 3, 2016 02:37

Larry Parrish: Jul 9, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Hmm. Just realized that taking Exploration first for the colonist as Ethiopia might be viable now. It used to be pointless because you'd spend most of your manpower fighting 6-7k stacks of natives, but with the Peaceful Coexistance policy you don't have to worry about that anymore. So this lets you fabricate claims on Ajuuraan much earlier than you normally can, what with the tendency for Hejaz, Adal, and one other random Sunni country to ally eachother right away. Also doesn't delay you second idea set too much because you aren't spending it all on Religious really early. Plus you can get started on conversion with Clergy estate, unlike before when you really really needed Religious to do anything.

# ? Jan 3, 2016 03:35

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# ? May 16, 2024 20:19

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

Pellisworth posted:

Yeah that makes +Available Mercenaries bonuses pretty terrible.

Are we talking about regular force limit or mercenary force limit? Because I didn't even realize that there was a hard force limit on mercenaries until today, when as Spain I decided that my income was so high that I might as replace all of my regular infantry with mercenaries

# ? Jan 3, 2016 03:57

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Europa Universalis IV: Buying all the DLC is just Common Sense

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