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Zeroisanumber posted:And they fail a lot. IIRC, steam catapults fail at a rate of 1/1000 and the new magnetic catapults are like 1/70. Par for the course for a new technology, but it doesn't make me feel all that good about the new Jerry-class carriers. At least they probably won't catch on fire on a daily basis.
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Dec 31, 2015 14:10
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CMD598 posted:At least they probably won't catch on fire on a daily basis. this is China we're talking about e- oh wait no it's not, but just remember this is the US we're talking about
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Dec 31, 2015 14:58
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Munnin The Crab posted:As far as I understand it, to generate the all the steam required for a steam catapult you pretty much need a nuclear reactor. And electromagnetic catapults are super new and mindbogglingly expensive. Essex-refits had steam catapults, replacing the ubiquitous WWII hydraulic units.
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Dec 31, 2015 15:36
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Not only that, but out of the first nine US supercarriers, eight were conventionally powered.
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Dec 31, 2015 15:51
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Yeah but a catapult with a conventional powerplant is going to need a larger engineering crew, and we all know China has a huge manpower shortage.
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Dec 31, 2015 16:55
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poorly made and operated steam things are not something i would want to be around
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Dec 31, 2015 17:34
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ArchangeI posted:the funny thing is that some people are arguing that the Chinese have looked at steam catapults, decided that they were way too complicated, and decided to go with electromagnetic instead, essentially skipping steam catapults to go from ski jump to EMC. could this be because of all the hacking the chinese government does?
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Dec 31, 2015 18:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDXmntpCbao
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Dec 31, 2015 20:15
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im glad were spending tax dollars "training" these idiots
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Dec 31, 2015 20:22
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:im glad were spending tax dollars "training" these idiots I thought the same thing at Fort Benning.
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Dec 31, 2015 20:50
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at the date posted:I thought the same thing at Fort Benning.  
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Dec 31, 2015 21:08
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Well nobody died during training today! licks finger, puts a giant 1 on the chalkboard
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Jan 1, 2016 06:09
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Koesj posted:Not only that, but out of the first nine US supercarriers, eight were conventionally powered. By giant boilers and steam turbines, right? Not the typical apartment-block sized diesels powering today's superfrieighters that don't make any steam?
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Jan 1, 2016 06:19
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Steam is helpful for driving catapults.
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Jan 1, 2016 08:26
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at the date posted:I thought the same thing at Fort Benning. nice
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Jan 1, 2016 08:32
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Great breakdown of WWII Armour myths by an expert and former tanker. Points that stood out to me: Shermans were pretty good and only burned because the Germans kept shooting them after bailouts so they couldn't be repaired. American TD doctrine was not as bad as made out to be. American tanks only engaged in Tiger duels 3 times. It did not take 5 US tanks to bag a Panther or Tiger. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bNjp_4jY8pY
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Jan 1, 2016 21:25
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The only reason anyone thinks the Sherman was a poo poo tank was because some POG rear end bitch wrote a book on how he was always patching up holes in Shermans
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Jan 1, 2016 21:34
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Bolow posted:The only reason anyone thinks the Sherman was a poo poo tank was because some POG rear end bitch wrote a book on how he was always patching up holes in Shermans "I'm just saying, I saw a lot of shot up tanks as well as tanks that broke down, clearly these things sucked." *works in a tank repair shop*
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Jan 1, 2016 21:37
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Yeah, the Ask Us About Military History thread goes over WW2 tanks fairly often. The Sherman wasn't perfect, but it was reliable and did its job very well. The Ronson "Lights up ever time!" slogan only saw rare usage on a few ads around 1927 and 1950, so that nickname's a straight up falsehood. I've heard it attributed to their use of gasoline engines, but the Germans used gasoline too and nobody tried to call them Ronsons. The Shermans fixed up their problems with burning pretty quickly with the introduction of wet ammo storage, and even then they had excellent crew survivability. On the other hand, the Tiger and Panther were both shitheaps of bad engineering that were nowhere near as powerful or invulnerable as people like to make out. The biggest problem they had in terms of armor was bad hardening and materials causing the armor to crack on impact, which created a fuckton of spalling and rapidly reduced the armor's durability (as well as being very difficult to repair). The Tiger's armor looks cool on paper, but in practice it was pretty normal for T-34s and the like to kill them as long as the Russians were using smart tactics.
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Jan 1, 2016 21:48
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For a Soviet perspective on the Sherman you really should read Dmitriy Loza's memoirs "Commanding the Red Army's Sherman Tanks He did a brief interview awhile back and you can find his memoirs online pretty easily
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Jan 1, 2016 22:00
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Going to shamelessly plug a friend's site here: http://www.theshermantank.com Should be relevant to a few people's interests.
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Jan 1, 2016 22:30
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Frosted Flake posted:Great breakdown of WWII Armour myths by an expert and former tanker. I think I've seen this one before and there's actually a whole shitton of other myths that he doesn't cover, like the Blitzkrieg being a specific doctrine the Nazis came up with, or the Tiger being anything other than a ill-devised, undermotorised shitbox with an extremely efficient gun. It's kinda weird that Discovery Channel fearsome-nazis-type of "documentaries" are what has been shaping popular knowledge for ages now and it take a tank video game company to throw money at a bunch of guys to plow through every archive ever to come up with findings that oppose those of the most popular and most-cited books about the period. Also, the guy's kinda funny. "You were not going to open he firefight unless you were in a position of advantage to begin with. Once you do get the first shot off, you are usually calm and collected, while the guy on the receiving end is having a significant emotional event. So his return shot is likely rushed and hurried and will miss anyway." /welp, beaten Duzzy Funlop fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jan 1, 2016 |
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Jan 1, 2016 22:31
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You see it often with small arms too. The rate of fire and range of the SVT didn't do the Soviets a lot of good when they were using bad tactics. Likewise the M1 didn't help anyone too much at the Kasserine Pass.
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Jan 1, 2016 22:47
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Duzzy Funlop posted:I think I've seen this one before and there's actually a whole shitton of other myths that he doesn't cover, like the Blitzkrieg being a specific doctrine the Nazis came up with, or the Tiger being anything other than a ill-devised, undermotorised shitbox with an extremely efficient gun. It's kinda weird that Discovery Channel fearsome-nazis-type of "documentaries" are what has been shaping popular knowledge for ages now and it take a tank video game company to throw money at a bunch of guys to plow through every archive ever to come up with findings that oppose those of the most popular and most-cited books about the period. The Tiger had a nice gun, but even then it wasn't mythical like Wehraboos love to think. According to the Tiger's own manual, the effective combat range of the tank was about the same as its opponents and it could be penetrated from those distances as well. The Panther had its own problems, like the lovely final drive (designed for the original 30 ton design before the Panther's weight ballooned and with gears designed for a light car instead of a heavy armored vehicle to save money) disintegrating after only 150 km on average, the heavy gun falling backwards when driving uphill, the turret traverse speed being very slow on early tanks and tied to the engine RPM on later tanks, the lovely engine easily leaking and catching fire at random times, and the gunner lacking any way to see outside except a magnified gun sight (French testing found it took something like 30 to 45 seconds on average for a commander to direct the gunner onto a target, making the Panther extremely vulnerable when it wasn't firing at a prepared ambush position). Combine that with a crappy HE round so the Panther can't even effectively support infantry against non-tank targets, and there's good reason the Tiger and Panther were tossed aside after the war while Panzer IVs and StuGs carried on all the way into the late 1960s in third-world front line combat.
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Jan 1, 2016 23:03
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The French used Panthers briefly, and were expressly forbidden from turning when driving in reverse because it would mulch the gearbox instantly
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Jan 1, 2016 23:06
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Bolow posted:The French used Panthers briefly, and were expressly forbidden from turning when driving in reverse because it would mulch the gearbox instantly They were also forbidden from trying to neutral steer (spin in place) for a similar reason.
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Jan 1, 2016 23:07
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ArchangeI posted:the funny thing is that some people are arguing that the Chinese have looked at steam catapults, decided that they were way too complicated, and decided to go with electromagnetic instead, essentially skipping steam catapults to go from ski jump to EMC. Of course it will, they're just going to steal the designs from us when some mouthbreather picks up a random USB stick and plugs it into his computer.
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Jan 2, 2016 02:30
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Once, at a conference, I made a presentation. The person following me was from the ATF going over the latest regs and, of course, they couldn't get their computer to work with the projector so I kindly offered to do it over laptop since I'd just used it and it had worked fine. The instant I plug this guy's USB stick into my computer my anti-virus pops up and lets me know the stick is brimming with bugs. Lovely. Doing the best I could I quickly quarantined everything and opened the presentation. When I got home I nuked that fucker flat. But hey, good job ATF guy!
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Jan 2, 2016 02:35
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Frosted Flake posted:Great breakdown of WWII Armour myths by an expert and former tanker. That was really interesting, thanks for posting this. The comments are a treat to read as well where people are offended that his information doesn't match their precious wiki pedia.
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Jan 2, 2016 03:38
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go3 posted:poorly made and operated steam things are not something i would want to be around No worries plenty of sailors where those came from
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Jan 2, 2016 05:01
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Scratch Monkey posted:No worries plenty of sailors where those came from well like the man said Godholio posted:and we all know China has a huge manpower shortage. lol
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Jan 2, 2016 05:31
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Edgar posted:That was really interesting, thanks for posting this. The comments are a treat to read as well where people are offended that his information doesn't match their precious wiki pedia. i dunno i have a hard time believing that there were only 3 "duels" between american tanks and the 200 tigers in the western european sector from d-day to v-e day
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Jan 2, 2016 05:55
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:i dunno i have a hard time believing that there were only 3 "duels" between american tanks and the 200 tigers in the western european sector from d-day to v-e day Probably not when you factor in "down for maintenance" and "out of gas" maybe?
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Jan 2, 2016 06:06
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:i dunno i have a hard time believing that there were only 3 "duels" between american tanks and the 200 tigers in the western european sector from d-day to v-e day I think most were deployed againts the Brit/Canadian sector (where Michael Wittmann was killed in his Tiger). But yeah, I agree with most of what he says but he's basing too much off the scant reported records alone imo.
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Jan 2, 2016 06:51
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Arrath posted:Once, at a conference, I made a presentation. The person following me was from the ATF going over the latest regs and, of course, they couldn't get their computer to work with the projector so I kindly offered to do it over laptop since I'd just used it and it had worked fine. The instant I plug this guy's USB stick into my computer my anti-virus pops up and lets me know the stick is brimming with bugs. Lovely. Doing the best I could I quickly quarantined everything and opened the presentation. Being the ATF, it's a good thing you didn't let him plug it in for you. He'd try to force it in backwards.
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Jan 2, 2016 09:08
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Yeah all that info goes against everything I and probably most thought they knew. It is funny how Americans have this weird boner for Nazi poo poo and everything they did and built was superior. Guess it's kind of the history channels fault for being ww2/hitler channel from what 1999-2005 before it became ghost stories or UFOs or whatever the gently caress they show Bit torn on blitzkrieg and whether it was an actual thing or just a farce officers made up when they got steam rolled by Germans that somehow stuck
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Jan 2, 2016 10:12
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Wasn't one of the things about the Shermans the armor, or German shells? I recall reading or seeing on TV something about how a Sherman might take a round, but it'd probably go right on through. As such, you had a pretty good chance to escape a wrecked Sherman, whereas in a Panther or Tiger if it got hit you'd have a much greater chance of it going in, but then bouncing around inside and taking everyone out.
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Jan 2, 2016 14:01
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VikingSkull posted:Wasn't one of the things about the Shermans the armor, or German shells? I recall reading or seeing on TV something about how a Sherman might take a round, but it'd probably go right on through. As such, you had a pretty good chance to escape a wrecked Sherman, whereas in a Panther or Tiger if it got hit you'd have a much greater chance of it going in, but then bouncing around inside and taking everyone out. Oh so like how a .22 is an assassin's caliber because the bullet doesn't have enough energy to exit the skull so it just bounces around inside and scrambles your brain.
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Jan 2, 2016 15:43
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Internet Wizard posted:Oh so like how a .22 is an assassin's caliber because the bullet doesn't have enough energy to exit the skull so it just bounces around inside and scrambles your brain. I, too, saw My Blue Heaven.
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Jan 2, 2016 15:49
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Internet Wizard posted:Oh so like how a .22 is an assassin's caliber because the bullet doesn't have enough energy to exit the skull so it just bounces around inside and scrambles your brain. to be fair it might have been the fat guy in glasses on the Military Channel that said it
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Jan 2, 2016 17:01
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