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jivjov posted:Because the films are pretty vague on droid personhood. I don't think this is true at all. The Star Wars films repeatedly emphasize the personhood of droids.
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Jan 2, 2016 03:04
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They make a point of showing Luke reaching out to R2 during Rey's lightsaber vision sequence, right? What if Luke told R2 to stay in low power mode until some unknown conditions were met, because he didn't want anybody to track him down before then? Given that he has precognition powers it could've been as specific as "stay dormant until the next time a Death Star gets blown up". Makes a lot more sense than R2 being force sensitive.
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Jan 2, 2016 03:25
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WrathOfBlade posted:Makes a lot more sense than R2 being force sensitive. Why?
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Jan 2, 2016 03:28
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Because whether the force sensitives tap into the force by spirit or blood, Droids have neither.
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Jan 2, 2016 03:32
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kiimo posted:Because whether the force sensitives tap into the force by spirit or blood, Droids have neither. That's quite an assumption on your part.
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Jan 2, 2016 03:34
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Why would droids not have souls?WrathOfBlade posted:They make a point of showing Luke reaching out to R2 during Rey's lightsaber vision sequence, right? What if Luke told R2 to stay in low power mode until some unknown conditions were met, because he didn't want anybody to track him down before then? Given that he has precognition powers it could've been as specific as "stay dormant until the next time a Death Star gets blown up". Makes a lot more sense than R2 being force sensitive. How would R2 have known Starkiller Base had been destroyed?
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Jan 2, 2016 03:34
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The newest run of Star Wars LEGOs are absolutely fantastic. I say this because one of the big expensive ones comes with a literal New Boba Fett that is a woman with purple hair named Sabine Wrex. And now I'm just like, can't she somehow be in the next movie instead of Phasma? Please?
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Jan 2, 2016 03:43
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precision posted:The newest run of Star Wars LEGOs are absolutely fantastic. I say this because one of the big expensive ones comes with a literal New Boba Fett that is a woman with purple hair named Sabine Wrex. And now I'm just like, can't she somehow be in the next movie instead of Phasma? Please? Why the hell wouldn't you want Gwendoline Christie in a movie? What is wrong with you?
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Jan 2, 2016 03:44
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precision posted:The newest run of Star Wars LEGOs are absolutely fantastic. I say this because one of the big expensive ones comes with a literal New Boba Fett that is a woman with purple hair named Sabine Wrex. And now I'm just like, can't she somehow be in the next movie instead of Phasma? Please? You mean this character that's already in a TV show about Star Wars?
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Jan 2, 2016 03:45
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WrathOfBlade posted:They make a point of showing Luke reaching out to R2 during Rey's lightsaber vision sequence, right? What if Luke told R2 to stay in low power mode until some unknown conditions were met, because he didn't want anybody to track him down before then? Given that he has precognition powers it could've been as specific as "stay dormant until the next time a Death Star gets blown up". Makes a lot more sense than R2 being force sensitive. This thing was solved pages ago, sourced from someone on the writing team or something. BB8 wakes up R2 when he pulls the sheet off him and tell him about the missing map piece, he just takes a long time to boot up Most posters going on about droids being force sensitive already know this, they're just spinning along a poo poo convo for laughs
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Jan 2, 2016 03:47
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I just checked the box and yep it says "Star Wars Rebels" so now I feel dumb, I thought she was a new character. The set also comes with a black R2-D2 and I guess that won't be in the next movie either. 
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Jan 2, 2016 03:48
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Probably not, but Rebels is a pretty fun show IMO. At the very least its worth checking out. The first few episodes are kind "decent" but the show starts finding it stride quickly. Once Tarkin comes in to pay a visit, things start kicking into high gear.
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Jan 2, 2016 04:08
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jivjov posted:Because the films are pretty vague on droid personhood. The old EU went into it a bit..but just from canonical sources, R2 and 3PO are just really advanced iterations of Siri. The films feature a literal droid torture room with literal droid torture and you are looking at them being tortured and saying "well, they probably aren't PEOPLE." "This I claim is ideology." If R2 is a machine then so are you. Almost every piece of technology larger than a blaster pistol in the original trilogy meets the criteria for sentience as put forth in the trial of Lieutenant Commander Data to determine whether or not he was the property of starfleet. And Star Wars makes no claims to be any more scientifically rigorous than Neverending Story. The droids are people because elves and dwarves and navi and skeksis are people. Sarkozymandias fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 04:49
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Sarkozymandias posted:The films feature a literal droid torture room with literal droid torture and you are looking at them being tortured and saying "well, they probably aren't PEOPLE." Force Awakens does heavily, heavily downplay the droid slavery and space-racism angles though. A New Hope, for example, has an entire subplot about how droids and aliens are caught up in pointless inter-ethnic hatreds that distract them from their mutual oppression by the rich. C3PO emerges as a nuanced character who begins to use his servile demeanor to manipulate those who control him. Force Awakens has one scene where BB8 is too cute to sell, and that's it. The overhyped muppet-aliens are onscreen for a fraction of a second each. This is the first 'apolitical' Star Wars.
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Jan 2, 2016 05:18
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turtlecrunch posted:The thing that I liked about the PT was that the emperor installed a cheat code in the clones to make them kill all Jedi and the Kamino people never mentioned this to anyone. Bongo Bill posted:The other orders were mentioned as a means for explaining why this one in particular did not arouse suspicion. Other contingency orders were never mentioned. The Jedi never even found out that there was such a thing as Order 66. All they discovered was that the clones had organic microchips hidden in their brains from birth. The Kaminoans then explained to the Jedi, falsely, that the brain chips were designed to inhibit the aggressive tendencies the clones inherited from Jango. The Sith then manipulated events so as to seemingly confirm that this was indeed the chips' purpose. During the arc, it's revealed that even while the Kaminoans are duping the Jedi, the Kaminoans are simultaneously being duped by the Sith. The Kaminoans know full well that the brain chips are there to ensure compliance with a hypothetical Jedi kill order given by the Chancellor, but they think it's only meant as a contingency in the event that any of the Jedi commanders ever turn to the dark side and go rogue (which seems reasonable to them, because it's what happened with Count Dooku, and it's also what happened with Pong Krell and Barriss Offee). It turns out Count Dooku has been in constant contact with the Kaminoans from Day One, in his guise as Tyranus. Basically, he's been pulling a Sidious and communicating with the Kaminoans via hologram with his voice disguised and his face covered by a hood:  Tyranus has convinced the Kaminoans that he speaks for the late Sifo-Dyas, to whose original orders the Kaminoans are ultimately loyal above all else. Tyranus claims it was Sifo-Dyas's own desire that the Order 66 chips be implanted in the clones' brains, as a contingency for rogue Jedi. According to Tyranus, Sifo-Dyas felt that this completely innocuous countermeasure must nevertheless be kept secret from the rest of the Jedi themselves, so as not to in any way limit the contingency's effectiveness. And so the Kaminoans lie to the Jedi on behalf of the Sith, while at the same time believing they are acting on behalf of Sifo-Dyas in the best interests of both the Jedi and the Republic. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 05:19
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That seems a lot less interesting than the depiction of the kaminoans aloof and supernatural beings beyond morality or comprehension in how they approach their lovecraftian mad science. Like they put it in there because it seeme as reasonable as any other request. They live in an endless ocean at the edge of an endless ocean. I am reminded of a less overtly evil version of that claymation Satan figure from some old Mark Twain show. Kaminoans are cooler as irresponsible demigods.
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Jan 2, 2016 05:30
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Krowley posted:This thing was solved pages ago, sourced from someone on the writing team or something. BB8 wakes up R2 when he pulls the sheet off him and tell him about the missing map piece, he just takes a long time to boot Now you're just reading what you want since JJ explicitly says he took a creative liberty by delaying the awakening until Rey arrives. BECAUSE ITS LITERALLY MEANT TO BE READ SYMBOLICALLY, as stated by the mouth of the author himself. Or are you just being obtuse for laughs? Steve2911 posted:Finn and BB-8 are the antagonists? I can't wait for JJ's prequel trilogy to his sequel trilogy where it's revealed that a young kylo ren was responsible for the birth of FN2187. It's like that line from the prequels that everyone hates yet end up ironically using it unironically. Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:The establishing shots in the prequels are the best part of the films. That's not a slight either. They're almost stunning and do a good job of setting the tone for the scene. In contrast, VII opens in shadows, with just glimmers of planet and starship peeking out, like JJ knows that he's tip toeing into the Star Wars universe, still unsure of his own vision so instead relies on visuals and props already established from the original trilogy. Side question, sorry if it's been brought up, is this the first SW movie that involved flashbacks? I honestly can't remember. The other movies had echoes for sure, but did they have explicit visions by characters to past events? ruddiger fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 05:31
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ruddiger posted:Side question, sorry if it's been brought up, is this the first SW movie that involved flashbacks? I honestly can't remember. The other movies had echoes for sure, but did they have explicit visions by characters to past events? When did Episode VII have a flashback? If you're referring to the vision sequence, we have no idea if that's a strictly literal portrayal of the past, or Weird Force Stuff (tm)
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Jan 2, 2016 05:34
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ruddiger posted:Now you're just reading what you want since JJ explicitly says he took a creative liberty by delaying the awakening until Rey. BECAUSE ITS LITERALLY MEANT TO BE READ SYMBOLICALLY, as stated by the mouth of the author himself. This is the first one to do flashbacks, though I'm glad it gave some pretense for it instead of just making them straight flashbacks. I like flashbacks in a lot of things, but after 6 movies of no traditional flashbacks it'd feel like cheating to include them now.
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Jan 2, 2016 05:34
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ruddiger posted:Side question, sorry if it's been brought up, is this the first SW movie that involved flashbacks? I honestly can't remember. The other movies had echoes for sure, but did they have explicit visions by characters to past events? Past events yes, the other Star Wars films mainly dwelt on the future for their visions.
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Jan 2, 2016 05:35
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computer parts posted:Past events yes, the other Star Wars films mainly dwelt on the future for their visions. We've never needed the past events, because there was probably already 15 books/comics/wookiepedia articles on the back story and a toy line with that characters entire family line.
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Jan 2, 2016 05:43
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Bongo Bill posted:Why would droids not have souls? Droids only have souls if they were built by Dr. Light or copied from his designs, replicated, if you will. Now of course the world of Mega Man may very well be in the Star Wars Galaxy, in the year 20XX BBY
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Jan 2, 2016 05:53
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Force Awakens does heavily, heavily downplay the droid slavery and space-racism angles though. You can't tell me Finn and Rey's dialogue: "So you're what a resistance fighter looks like? Yeah, they look like me... Some of them look like me. " isn't commenting on race.
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Jan 2, 2016 05:58
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greatn posted:Now of course the world of Mega Man may very well be in the Star Wars Galaxy, in the year 20XX BBY they have blasters and laser swords that i don't feel like counting
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Jan 2, 2016 06:02
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Those really weren't "flashbacks". The force visions. Episode 3 shows security footage?
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Jan 2, 2016 06:06
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Force Awakens has one scene where BB8 is too cute to sell, and that's it. The overhyped muppet-aliens are onscreen for a fraction of a second each. This is the first 'apolitical' Star Wars. It's not the only time that treating robots like people codes the good guys. There's a small exchange during Poe and Finn's escape in which Poe talks about BB in very human terms. Finn is surprised about that because he's a reformed Hitler youth as opposed to Poe who sees BB as a comrade. There's also the fact that R2-D2 is confirmed to have person-hood because he's almost unarguably force sensitive at this point. Force Awakens is political, but like Tumblr it's mostly about the politics of the stories we tell. The movie is very aware that its heroes are a black guy and a girl who plays with boy things. It's very aware that its villain is a whiny white kid who wants to horde all the best Star Wars toys. I mean poo poo son, Ren is a reflection of how nerds have cherished Han Solo but would probably mutually despise the real world equivalent of Han Solo. The Force Awakens is about a child's dreams of greatness. It's something the film both fears, celebrates, and critiques. It mainly critiques the lack of inclusion in stories like Star Wars. The Hero's Journey and it's real life applications are saved for white boys. Rey, the girl who plays with boy's toys is able to rise up and take that journey herself. Finn steals the role of hero from Poe on both a meta level as a black man and the in the context of the film as a canon fodder stormtrooper. Droids too get to be Resistance soldiers (BB) and ][spoilerJedi-ish (R2)[/spoiler].
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Jan 2, 2016 06:34
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It's interesting that human skin color hasn't really played a factor in previous episodes with regards to racism yet space racism abounds with the way certain aliens and droids are treated. Ep VII is pointing a big fat finger at real world racism and role reversals, but in-universe, these are issues that have been moot, because we've seen planets already ruled and run by black men (Lando system?) and women (Naboo).
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Jan 2, 2016 06:43
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ruddiger posted:Side question, sorry if it's been brought up, is this the first SW movie that involved flashbacks? I honestly can't remember. The other movies had echoes for sure, but did they have explicit visions by characters to past events? Nope. It's actually extremely rare to have dream sequences at all. Anakin gets a few blurry images, and then Luke has his vision quest in ESB. Abrams' flashback scene includes explicit reference to the ESB vision quest: Rey enters the flashback through the same angular hallway where Luke confronts Vader (both in the vision and in reality).  greatn posted:You can't tell me Finn and Rey's dialogue: Star Wars has previously operated according to the same logic as District 9: there are different-colored humans, and then there are prawns. Characters like Lando and Captain Panaka qualify as 'human' and fit in with society because of their class, while aliens are the major targets of space-racism. Aliens have 'intolerable' behaviors, strange accents, and so-on. As a former imperial, even as a janitor, Finn still has a high enough status that he can be a romantically paired with Rey. Contrast their relationship with the relationship between the New Order spy and the tusked alien in Maz's bar. The tusked guy's racial features are too prominent, and they're used to indicate that these are unsavory characters. As with Billy Dee Williams, Boyega's casting is very important and should not be overlooked or discounted. But backpatting over having black and female protagonists is a distraction from the film's ideology - which is, again, monarchist/feudalist. Force Awakens is the first overtly 'gently caress the poor' Star Wars.
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Jan 2, 2016 06:43
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You talk about feudalism as if it's a bad thing
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Jan 2, 2016 06:57
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SMG is trying way, way too hard compared to normal.
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Jan 2, 2016 06:58
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Yaws posted:You talk about feudalism as if it's a bad thing It is if you're the peasant being conscripted into (star) war. Unless you buy into the propaganda and follow complicitly like Finn's homeboy with the riot baton.
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Jan 2, 2016 07:06
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Chickenfrogman posted:SMG is trying way, way too hard compared to normal. What I've written is true.
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Jan 2, 2016 07:17
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SMG what does Darth Zek think of the film?
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Jan 2, 2016 07:18
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RBA Starblade posted:SMG what does Darth Zek think of the film? I don't know.
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Jan 2, 2016 07:20
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Oh, well I thought I'd ask.
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Jan 2, 2016 07:22
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NecroMonster posted:He (Grievous) was able to use laserswords thanks to his cybernetic upgrades, but he still got his rear end kicked over and over in fights with anything more than like jedi noobies. Unless you watched the non-CGI Clone Wars cartoon where he's a bad-rear end murderous killing machine. When you first see him he corners like 5-6 Jedi in a decrepit ship and proceeds to just wreck all of them effortlessly. Just look at this poo poo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIj7gIDFDe4 What a loving bad-rear end. I was stoked as hell for Grievous after seeing that, and thought his design was one of the coolest in any of the movies. Motherfucker can use FOUR... LIGHTSABERS. He can stand on one hand and fight with sabers with his feet, he can grab people's faces with his foot claws and fling them through the roof, and at no point fighting this pack of Jedi does he look like he's in the least bit of danger. He just dominates the whole crew beginning to end. I love how he kills the padawan who runs by just landing on him and crushing him into the ground with his weight. He looked like a truly terrifying threat, a trained lightsaber combatant with droid-precise balance, agility, targeting, etc. and with his droid skillz and his... uh, gymkata-like abilities to use all parts of his body in unorthodox and unexpected ways I thought he was going to be a God-damned wrecking machine who'd push Anakin or Obi-Wan (or both, or even more!) to the limits of their abilities just to survive. When they were facing him on the bridge of the Invisible Hand I was pretty excited. Here it comes, an opportunity for General Grievous to show his quality. But... just look at this poo poo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WQqEl4pMJ0 Hacking and coughing and talking like the loving Count from Sesame Street. BLAH BLAAAAAH, JEDI. 1... 2... 3... 4 lightsabers! I have 4 lightsabers! I mean, don't worry, I won't actually do anything with them. He doesn't even try to fight the Jedi, just sends some redshirts to die to them and then... wanders over to another part of the bridge to tell the cannon fodder droids to stay at their stations? What? Does he need them to check the comm right now rather than dealing with the two armed Jedi on his bridge? Maybe he's checking their position on the galaxy map? He says "Keep the ship in orbit!" but does it really require one of those roger-roger toothpick-looking fuckers standing at some control for that to happen? I guess this ship doesn't have any kind of autopilot or navigation computers or any computers at all? Hey here's another question, why the gently caress isn't your bad-rear end Sith-trained saber-wielding killing machine doing anything at all? All he does the entire movie is hack, barf, get his hands chopped off and run away as hard as he can as often as he can. Christ what a waste of a great character design that could really have been something spectacular. Eh, but it's not like that's anything new with George Lucas. Grievous wasn't the only awesome-looking bad-rear end who got the ol' gently caress-off from George. I mean, just look at this poo poo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqbbSrQvAlU Yeah, nobody likes that character at all, let's just kill him off and replace him with someone named "Dooku." Also let's make sure this living embodiment of the wrath of the Dark Side, a Sith who's done nothing for, oh, his entire loving life but train to kill Jedi goes out like a chump. Check those Force-enhanced Sith reflexes when Obi-Wan jumps over him! Dude can fight a Jedi Master and his padawan simultaneously to a standstill but he just can't figure out what to do there! "He's jumping over me... he's igniting his saber... he landed... I have my saber in my hand... maybe I should ummm... defend myself... but I'm not sure... aw gently caress I'm cut in half and falling down a bottomless shaft. And I only got to say like 10 words in the whole movie." You know, the cold realization that yes, TPM really wasn't going to be very good first washed over me when... well, whenever 9 year-old Anakin opened his loving mouth and spoke for the first time. But it wasn't until Darth Maul died like a cross-eyed mongoloid dumbfuck that I accepted that yes, something was rotten in the state of Star Wars. But hey, the lightsaber fight was cool as poo poo, and I liked that big, uh, glowing frog-ball that important character BOSS NASS held up at the end, so I bet Episode II will be better! It will be better, I'm sure of it! Lucas was just shaking the rust off, I'm sure he's got something planned that will be completely awesome! 
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Jan 2, 2016 07:26
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It's quite strange how Star Wars fans chastise the PT for being over choreographed and also not being choreographed enough.
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Jan 2, 2016 07:41
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computer parts posted:It's quite strange how Star Wars fans chastise the PT for being over choreographed and also not being choreographed enough. I have a friend who ren faires as a master swordsman or something and he's constantly hating on the prequel movies for having "twirly light saber fights" yet loves the original trilogy for the unrealistic space dog fights. Double standards is a long held fanboy tradition.
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Jan 2, 2016 07:46
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Grievous is deliberately characterized as a wannabe Jedi and patsy, who mistreats his fellow droids. The desire to see him as 'badass' is divorced from any sense of morality or ethics.
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Jan 2, 2016 08:05
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computer parts posted:It's quite strange how Star Wars fans chastise the PT for being over choreographed and also not being choreographed enough. Yeah, it's crazy! It's almost like there's quite a lot of Star Wars fans out there, and they're all different people who have different opinions on things.
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Jan 2, 2016 08:21
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