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The "traditional", easiest to use 1-2-3-4 team is, in order, Crusader-Highwayman-Plague Doctor-Vestal, and should be the first team you really use until you get the hang of the game It's basically impossible to gently caress up with a team that stable and easy, since you fulfill all roles (tank, dps, DOT, heal) and they all do consistent damage you get a bunch of stuns (the by-far strongest CC in the game), a bleed, a bunch of heals spread out between your members, stress heals, buffs, light regeneration...basically, you get it all if you run that teamcomp the stress mechanic means especially early on you need multiple teams. your A team should be what i just said- because it's incredibly stable and can hack through all content in a really easy way. my current A team is acutally that, just with leper replacing highwayman because lepers are strong as gently caress for recruitment you want to prioritize vestals, because they're on the whole the most important early-game unit to have especially when starting out for the op classes, the classes you should pick up whenever available you should get abominations, houndmasters, lepers, and hellions because if you know how to use them right they can single-handedly clear content for you. houndmasters and lepers are basically impossible to gently caress up playing well, hellions require understanding of how to abuse their debuff trades, and abominations require specific teamcomps (you cannot use any religious members with their teamcomp) but if you can get a good team going with an abomination they will single-handedly win battles for you once you understand vestals start branching out to the more situational healers like occultists and arbalists, which require more skill to play well don't recruit jesters because they suck poo poo UNLESS you have an abomination already, and then you basically use it solely as a stress healer. this requires a bunch of understanding how to manage stress so is a very high-tier tactic, and even then abominations don't NEED this mechanic to be effective i would say never have more than two of any one class EXCEPT for vestals, because they're so crucial. recruit any class you don't have at least one of, even jesters if only to understand how lovely they are ed: Stress is the biggest problem early game, so focus on upgrading the tavern and sanctuary first. then caravan. you can switch the stress-healing locations in upgrade priority with the caravan if you're losing members all the goddamn time. by this time you'll start getting diseases, so work on upgrading the disease-curing place. then focus on upgrading the guild, then the blacksmith. at around this point you can start upgrading quirk curing/reinforcement (it's expensive as poo poo to treat, though, so you won't use it often if at all. around now is when you start using the survivalist, but you don't NEED to upgrade it (but you mine as well if you have to extra crests) since you use it so little. the trinket cart should always, 100% be your last upgrade since you'll NEVER use it outside of around the endgame NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 01:50
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The default team isn't bad, but it is far from the best. I'd also suggest not using lepers, because they can only attack rank 1/2 which is not super useful. Until you want to mess with marking teams and stuff the marking classes can be hard to use well (arb, bounty, houndman). Jester is a class I'd leave until you're making an abomination team or want to mess around with him. Grab at least one occultist and play with him, you'll want him in marking teams and abomination teams, and eventually you can replace your vestals with him. Hellion, man-at-arms, and graverobber are all good pick-ups if you see them. I'd aim for trying to build a vestal-graverobber-man at arms-hellion team along with your vestal-plague doc-highwayman-crusader team. If you get another hellion replace the highwayman with her, she is really great. Arbalest-Occultist-Man at Arms-Hellion makes a good party to learn marking stuff while not being reliant on it. Upgrade the guild and blacksmith to have the first rank of unlocks and have 4 people/week show up on stagecoach. Upgrading your guys the first time is cheap and incredibly effective. Chances are the only heirloom really left is busts, so some of those into the abbey for stress relief isn't bad. Once you have a group of level 1s look into doing medium missions and camping in the second room for camp buffs. Often these are a big enough deal to make medium missions easier than short missions. With 4 guys a week on the coach you can give a rando team a shot while your main guys are drinking or whatever, and that can be good to help figure out heroes or compositions. Named parties are just bonus flavor, no bonus.
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Jan 2, 2016 03:20
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houndmaster is one of the best loving classes in the game even without marking, i never use it with marking and it's still enormously powerful it comes with a use-at-any-time 100% damage buff, and can bleed four characters at once with one attack, combined with a stun and a high damage single-target attack that can hit any rank
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Jan 2, 2016 03:23
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Marking in general is kind of a trap. All of the marking classes stand up very well on their own without marks, and outside of boss fights you can pretty much forego mark abilities altogether.
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Jan 2, 2016 03:29
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What is a "religious" character? Is it based on class or quirks?
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Jan 2, 2016 03:49
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Vestel, Leper, Crusader
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Jan 2, 2016 03:51
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Marking works well when the person putting the mark down can't attack that position well or isn't a primary attacker. Also against high hp targets one person taking a mark round is often worth it, and if you are having a hound or occultist mark there are nice riders on it. Basically it is a bit more complicated on when it is a good time to mark, which is why I'd suggest waiting until you understand the game a bit better before venturing into a heavy marking party. My suggested arb-occ-maa-hel grouping also lets you experiment with it while also bringing enough firepower that you can handle doing it poorly. Houndmaster is a great hero that I like, but he is pretty complicated and doesn't slot into a party easily if you don't know whats up. Marks, guarding, self heal, stress heal, stun, attacks, and a bunch of that being mutually exclusive slotwise or only situationally useful. There are options that are much more straight forward that would be better for people to take while still learning how to approach the game.
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Jan 2, 2016 04:17
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Ranter posted:This twitch streamer is an expert at FTL, but he's doing pretty well at darkest dungeon now and is entertaining in a goony way: http://www.twitch.tv/billy1kirby Thanks for posting this, I enjoyed watching him run roughshod over a level 5 drowned crew. I've never even seen a level 1 boss 
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Jan 2, 2016 04:21
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ZypherIM posted:Houndmaster is a great hero that I like, but he is pretty complicated and doesn't slot into a party easily if you don't know whats up. Marks, guarding, self heal, stress heal, stun, attacks, and a bunch of that being mutually exclusive slotwise or only situationally useful. There are options that are much more straight forward that would be better for people to take while still learning how to approach the game. Counterpoint: he is great for a new player because of those reasons. He can basically do everything except heal others. He can attack from any range, stun if hes in melee,has a self heal, party stress heal or put dots on the whole enemy line to pick off enemies that are weak. Houndmaster is great.
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Jan 2, 2016 04:22
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Counterpoint: he is great for a new player because of those reasons. He can basically do everything except heal others. He can attack from any range, stun if hes in melee,has a self heal, party stress heal or put dots on the whole enemy line to pick off enemies that are weak. The description is kinda vague, for buffs it should show if it's single or multiple-targeting. Also, up until now I've kinda been forcing myself to use only one character of each type, but I guess I should stock up on a few extra Vestals and such.
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Jan 2, 2016 04:26
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JT Jag posted:That stress heal of the Houndmaster's heals the entire party? gently caress. Yea having buffs show if it affected a single person or the entire party would be a nice ui change. It has a 65% per person to get stress healed.  houndmaster owns
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Jan 2, 2016 04:35
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Jackard posted:What is a "religious" character? Is it based on class or quirks? I think also there's a quirk that causes non-inherently religious classes to be religious. Maybe more than one?
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Jan 2, 2016 05:09
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ZypherIM posted:Houndmaster is a great hero that I like, but he is pretty complicated and doesn't slot into a party easily if you don't know whats up. Marks, guarding, self heal, stress heal, stun, attacks, and a bunch of that being mutually exclusive slotwise or only situationally useful. There are options that are much more straight forward that would be better for people to take while still learning how to approach the game.
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Jan 2, 2016 05:19
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JT Jag posted:That stress heal of the Houndmaster's heals the entire party? gently caress.  so much for the Jester
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Jan 2, 2016 05:33
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Soothing Vapors posted:Agreed, a marking prot debuffing bleeding self-healing high speed high dodge high damage trap disarmer with a great stun and great trinkets is pretty hard to use also not religious and works in any position
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Jan 2, 2016 05:39
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packetmantis posted:I think also there's a quirk that causes non-inherently religious classes to be religious. Maybe more than one? Quirks like God Fearing do not make a character religious, as it stands right now only the Crusader, Leper, and Vestal are religious characters. Jackard posted:
Not quite, at max levels the Houndmaster's stress heal only has a 66% success rate, so it's really not something to rely on.
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Jan 2, 2016 05:42
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Iron Chitlin posted:Not quite, at max levels the Houndmaster's stress heal only has a 66% success rate, so it's really not something to rely on. but gently caress the jester
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Jan 2, 2016 06:00
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Soothing Vapors posted:Agreed, a marking prot debuffing bleeding self-healing high speed high dodge high damage trap disarmer with a great stun and great trinkets is pretty hard to use When the player has honestly no grasp on what to use when then yes, it is a bad class for a new player. Even worse if they think they know what they're doing and they really don't yet. It is the plethora of options that are all good abilities that make him not a great character for a new person, versus someone like a crusader (whom I'm not a huge fan of which you can see from my other posts about him) or a hellion. You don't look at a hellion and try to figure out when you should have him in rank 3 for stress heal+attacks or rank 2 for stun+attacks, and you don't need to find a buddy that fits into the party that doesn't mind swapping. You don't have to worry about marking and when you should or shouldn't. You just apply the damage to the spot that is giving you trouble and move to the next turn. Some of the classes even have stuff that you look at and wonder why you'd ever use it, like vestral. She has 2 front row only moves and a -dodge debuff, a stun, and 2 heals. Even a new player looks at that and pretty much goes "I'll take the heals and the stun, thanks" and then has 1 slot they maybe think about. On the other hand, Occultist has 6 abilities from the back and his heal works a bit weird. He is a harder character to figure out and use. Personally I almost never run Vestals anymore, but to a new person I'm not going to tell them to do that, I'll tell them to grab Vestals and keep an Occultist around to figure out so they can play abomination or marking comps. I'm not being down on the houndmaster as a class, he is great and I use him plenty, just that as a suggested character for a new player he is pretty dense. After they run some straight forward parties around for a while and get used to the general flow of combat and learn what monster abilities are and do, they'll go mess with other setups or ask how to use a more complicated class.
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Jan 2, 2016 06:47
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The Jester's heal is single-person but it heals a really big chunk of stress. Incidentally as a new player I love Hellions and think they're great but I lose them by the bucketload, I think it might be because I only just figured out that buffs/debuffs stack
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Jan 2, 2016 07:17
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ZypherIM posted:When the player has honestly no grasp on what to use when then yes, it is a bad class for a new player. Even worse if they think they know what they're doing and they really don't yet. It is the plethora of options that are all good abilities that make him not a great character for a new person, versus someone like a crusader (whom I'm not a huge fan of which you can see from my other posts about him) or a hellion. You don't look at a hellion and try to figure out when you should have him in rank 3 for stress heal+attacks or rank 2 for stun+attacks, and you don't need to find a buddy that fits into the party that doesn't mind swapping. You don't have to worry about marking and when you should or shouldn't. You just apply the damage to the spot that is giving you trouble and move to the next turn. Too many good abilities with almost no way to go wrong(unless you shove him in rank 1 without a melee ability and are too stupid to figure out what's wrong, but then Darkest Dungeon might be beyond your grasp anyways). Truly the worst beginner class. I don't know how dumb you think people starting out are, but if they are confused by how the houndmaster works they should probably just get a refund. Houndmaster works in every rank. Put him in any rank and hit button. As you said, he can apply damage to the spot that is giving you trouble. He just works. Oh he's hurt? Use his self heal.
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Jan 2, 2016 07:22
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Houndmaster isn't quite as good super-early when you're mostly playing in the Ruins because you go up against a lot of bleeding-immune Unholy enemies there.
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Jan 2, 2016 07:26
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he's got a stun and high single-target, he's great there too
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Jan 2, 2016 07:42
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Dog needs a steal bone attack that's only usable on skeletons
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Jan 2, 2016 08:02
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Houndmaster seems completely amazing at everything except dps too bad i've yet to get one on my loving caaaaart
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Jan 2, 2016 08:23
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Doctor Schnabel posted:Dog needs a steal bone attack that's only usable on skeletons Yeah
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Jan 2, 2016 08:33
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I finally found a team comp I really like. MaA/Abomination/Occultist/Jester. I get why people say the Jester is terrible, but having him do nothing but heal stress 10+ at a time has been huge. It lets me not only manage the Abomination's stress but also saves me a bunch of money because I almost always end a dungeon with no/negligible stress on everyone. It's nice having a stable farming group that I can use to do a couple of dungeons while everyone else rests and slowly gets rid of their negative quirks. Speaking of quirks, are any of the dungeon/monster specific ones worth locking? Or should I just be sticking to the general ones that boost stats?
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Jan 2, 2016 11:11
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i never, ever, ever have enough money kicking around to lock quirks in past about midgame; my guys get their diseases removed if they're not too bad, and they get their terrible "-10% HP" quirks removed, but stuff like Hagiomania or locking in Tough Skin just doesn't get done
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Jan 2, 2016 13:14
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Too many good abilities with almost no way to go wrong(unless you shove him in rank 1 without a melee ability and are too stupid to figure out what's wrong, but then Darkest Dungeon might be beyond your grasp anyways). Truly the worst beginner class. I don't know how dumb you think people starting out are, but if they are confused by how the houndmaster works they should probably just get a refund. I don't think new players are stupid, just that there is a lot to learn about how the game works that isn't super up-front. It isn't always apparent to new players exactly WHY their run is going poorly, or why they're ending runs with a ton of stress. Some strategies and group setups work in one area but not others. Grabbing guys that work well in a straight forward way lets them figure out other game mechanics, then they can branch out into other things. A new player isn't going to realize off-hand that he doesn't need to mark stuff, he'll see that the mark gives him a big damage bonus. He isn't going to realize that the attack that hits all ranks for a bleed is pretty situational (ie 1 boss or definitely going to finish someone off). A lot of new players tend to spend turns healing too early in fights as it is. Without mark, dog treat, or beast bonus he is doing damage basically like a grave robber or highwayman (with way less crit but a bleed). He has a bunch of situationally awesome abilities that are easy for a new player to be spending time using and not realize why it is going poorly. If you want to give more fleshed out info about heroes that is great! Some work better in certain areas or should focus on certain abilities, or have really good trinket support for a certain thing. If you want to explain how to approach using the hound master for a new player go for it! Maybe outline a general use comp with him in it, or one built for a specific area/boss. For example, plague doc in cove is a solid option. Blight attacks are really nice against a couple of the high prot enemies, and there are a lot of fights where stuns on the back 2 rows is awesome. If you get both her +stun trinkets you have a bigger boost than the first round of stun resist the enemies get, so you can stun them 2 rounds in a row very reliably (which you should do almost all the time). Once you get to level 3 dungeons the cure bleed effect is really useful against the giant crab enemy. In general the cure bleed+blight is about as effective as a normal heal accounting for prevented damage. Vday: Jester-Occ-Abom-MaA is a great comp that I like as well. If you go to a medium length mission it is even better, you can toss down a good +65% damage increase on the abomination (along with 10 acc and 3% crit) and still have some camp time left. When he transforms he gets another +15% boost for a few rounds, so you can really wreck poo poo. Occultist and MaA together can really gently caress the enemies formation, or can just help apply more damage if you need to. A tricked out abom does enough damage that you could haul this group to a lot of bosses and still do just fine as well. Locking quirks for a specific dungeon/monster type can be pretty good if you've got someone you're only bringing to one place. It isn't really a priority though, and since cash can get pretty tight when you're upgrading skills/equipment later on it kind of gets put to the wayside. In general you don't really need to worry about negative quirks either, though some of the more crappy ones are contenders for removal. Diseases tend to either be completely ignorable or require curing. There are some curio interactions that can remove negative quirks as well. Warrens - Pile of scrolls - apply torch Cove - Eerie coral - apply medicinal herbs All - Eldrich altar - apply holy water
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Jan 2, 2016 15:27
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VDay posted:I finally found a team comp I really like. MaA/Abomination/Occultist/Jester. I get why people say the Jester is terrible, but having him do nothing but heal stress 10+ at a time has been huge. It lets me not only manage the Abomination's stress but also saves me a bunch of money because I almost always end a dungeon with no/negligible stress on everyone. It's nice having a stable farming group that I can use to do a couple of dungeons while everyone else rests and slowly gets rid of their negative quirks. In roughly descending order here are the quirks I consider worth my hard earned duckets:: *On Guard (speed is god tier and the first round is when you really want to be alphaing them down/dodging their return fire) *Quick Reflexes *Early Riser (unless you're into dark runs) *3% melee/ranged crit *10% damage (Warrior of Light (dark run caveat)/Slugger/the ranged one) *1% crit *Fated, on a Leper *Hard Skinned, on a Vestal or Occ The dungeon and monster specific ones are just not worth it imo, given that you can only lock 3 and there are so many great quirks. I thought about collecting the eldritch quirks and developing a specialized cove team, but it didn't pay off. For removing quirks, I let almost anything stand unless it fucks with accuracy, crit, damage, or curio interaction. Dark Temptation and the one that makes them obsessed with corpses are my least favorite quirks in the game. Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 15:43
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Fated is still my pick for best quirk, even with the accuracy buffs. gently caress misses. Also cure every disease but rabies. Even on the Leper. Especially on the Leper 
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Jan 2, 2016 16:00
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My highest level party just wiped on the Swine King. I had him down to 2 HP and I got stunned every round until my first and second row were my Grave Robber and Arbalest. Grave Robber had no front row attack so I shadow faded back. She was killed next turn. That left Arbalest with no front row attacks standing there for three rounds surviving death's door and failing to retreat. That was... frustrating! I think I'm going to train up a 4 Houndmaster Party so I don't have to worry about this. edit: Also, by the way, I'm the king of buying good camping skills and then forgetting to turn them on before I camp right before a boss. It's me; I'm that king. That Dang Dad fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 17:46
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My game is not being nice to me with respect to healers. I'm on week seven and have seen zero occultists and two vestals, one of which is currently missing after getting blind drunk and the other is at 90 stress and recuperating at the bar (guess my next dive's a suicide dive). I expect her to get lost, too, given my luck. Is which dungeon I go into mostly down to what town upgrade items I need in the beginning, or is there an increasing difficulty from dungeon to dungeon irrespective of the quest ranks? I've got the Bar and Cloister up to two slots, and the stage coach and barracks upgraded twice (4 each week, 15 max). What should I work on next? I've been unlocking skills I want at the Guild even on level 0 dorks, but when should I consider said dorks worthy of further upgrades/the blacksmith or survivalist?
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Jan 2, 2016 19:56
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Get level 1 skills and weapon/armor unlocked. I wouldn't really worry about opening new skills on level 0, leave that for level 1 if you really want them around more. If they aren't stressed to the max and ready to be sent on their way, grab the level 1 weapon/armor upgrade, and at the very least the skill upgrade for their main attack/heal/stun. Level 2 upgrades are nice, but not really needed. Once you're ready to try a level 3 dungeon you'll want all your poo poo upgraded if possible. Dungeons are equal difficulty, just different monsters and layouts and curios.
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Jan 2, 2016 20:06
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Doctor Schnabel posted:Dog needs a steal bone attack that's only usable on skeletons 
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Jan 2, 2016 20:31
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Are Bounty Hunters or Arbalests even worth taking off the cart if I don't feel the need to mark/aren't facing a boss?
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Jan 2, 2016 23:42
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Ciaphas posted:Are Bounty Hunters or Arbalests even worth taking off the cart if I don't feel the need to mark/aren't facing a boss? Bounty Hunters do a lot of damage, especially once you get one of their unique trinkets that boost their melee damage by 25%. They can also disrupt / shuffle enemy ranks. They don't really need marks to be effective and they do really well against human type enemies. Arbalests are ok. Poor for general dungeon clears, great for bosses. They are slow as balls unless you blow two turns blind firing, but good luck hitting what you want.
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Jan 2, 2016 23:54
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arbalest is my crossbow friend please respect her
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Jan 3, 2016 00:08
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Arbalest is secretly the best single-target healer in the game, that heal buff really adds up
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Jan 3, 2016 00:19
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The arbalest I got from the coach didn't have that skill so I didn't know they could do that! I'm not good at this game 
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Jan 3, 2016 00:53
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Ciaphas posted:Thanks for posting this, I enjoyed watching him run roughshod over a level 5 drowned crew. I've never even seen a level 1 boss Glad you enjoyed http://www.twitch.tv/billy1kirby. He's streaming Darkest Dungeon again now, after a full FTL:Hard run earlier today.
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Jan 3, 2016 00:54
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