|
computer parts posted:That's actually the point, you're responding correctly. Thats a pretty poo poo point then, in my opinion. It doesn't provide any real revelations beyond "scared people vote for bad things?", it isn't engaging nor interesting, and actively harms (again, in my opinion) the original trilogy when they are considered. There can exist a divide between correct things, and good things. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jan 3, 2016 |
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 00:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:59 |
|
|
Neurolimal posted:There can exist a divide between correct things, and good things. But that's precisely the relationship between the OT and PT: OT shows you good inspiring (not so true) things, PT shows you correct (not so inspiring) things.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 00:55
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Thats a pretty poo poo point then, in my opinion. It doesn't provide any real revelations beyond "scared people vote for bad things?", it isn't engaging nor interesting, and actively harms (again, in my opinion) the original trilogy when they are considered. I imagine it's fairly interesting in a country that's currently fighting a War on Terror. Even beyond that though, the PT is about how a toxic system can ruin everyone, even the Messiah. If Jesus were a man, even he would be corrupted by the toxic environment of the Republic just as much as Anakin was. And how exactly does it actively harm the OT? It makes the Rebels' fight to restore the Republic* seem naive, but they're still fighting an oppressor. I'm also curious as to what revelations are provided in the OT. *Though I don't believe this is explicitly said on screen.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 00:58
|
|
|
We never actually see Anakin be jesus, though? He wins a pod race, murders an entire tribe, then murders an entire group. It's less corrupting messiah so much as giving Lucifer a thumbs up. It makes the OT worse when considered, in my eyes, because it means Vader was unequivocally not even slightly a good man, Yoda was another member of the Jackass Council who flipped around and shot lightning, and Kenobi never actually had a real friendship with Vader (outside some elevator chatting, I guess?) While it is commendable that Lucas might have written an opposition to the war on terror into the films' text, I can't really forgive a movie I find largely dull and uninteresting because it said a correct thing that the audience didnt pick up on. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jan 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:05
|
|
|
Rei/Ray is a Leia clone and Kylo experiences his sexual awakening through her. Proof?  Anime is real.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:09
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Like it or not, the prequels have powerful imagery and memorable dialogue. That's why people get worked up over them. Give me a break pal. Powerful imagery?? Well I've give you half a point since I'll never get the image of Ewan Mcgregor riding a cartoon lizard chasing a stupid looking four armed robot or Yodi backflipping about around Christopher Lee. Sorry but The Force Awakens has more decent imagery than all the prequels. Off the top of my head there's... Finn getting his suit bloodstained by the dying fellow Stromtrooper. The shot of the troopers in the carrier. The Star Destroyer coming into frame at the start. Rey sitting in a destroyed AT-AT. The "Nazi rally" and the weapon firing. Even the fire trails across the sky The trailer shot of a stumbling Kylo Ren pulling out his saber. I can't think if any decent imagery in all the prequels which are a hot mess. The Phantom Menace has half a decent idea in there somewhere but it's just drowned in poo poo but the other two are awful and almost unwatchable. It's cool if you like them but please man stop trying to pretend there's a hidden depth to them. I know it's your thing but it's annoying and that's coming from someone who has very little investment in Star Wars as whole.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:17
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:We never actually see Anakin be jesus, though? He wins a pod race, murders an entire tribe, then murders an entire group. It's less corrupting messiah so much as giving Lucifer a thumbs up. He's literally a virgin birth.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:20
|
|
|
computer parts posted:I imagine it's fairly interesting in a country that's currently fighting a War on Terror. Even beyond that though, the PT is about how a toxic system can ruin everyone, even the Messiah. If Jesus were a man, even he would be corrupted by the toxic environment of the Republic just as much as Anakin was. The whole point of Jesus is that he lives in a corrupt environment and doesn't let it affect him, so that he can be a pure sacrifice, an unblemished lamb. This would actually be a way cooler series of movies if Anakin went into the Senate and scolded the people for being corrupt. "Ye tithe space anise and cumin and have neglected the weightier matters." "Beware of the space leaven of the Trade Federation." Ousting the money changers from the Jedi Temple with a lightwhip.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:28
|
|
|
computer parts posted:He's literally a virgin birth. Is that the reason people praise Jesus?
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:29
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Is that the reason people praise Jesus? The reason why people praise Jesus is that he fulfills the Jewish prophecy of the Messiah. His acts don't really matter that much.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:30
|
|
|
computer parts posted:The reason why people praise Jesus is that he fulfills the Jewish prophecy of the Messiah. His acts don't really matter that much. Jesus has respect across multiple religions and even nonreligious folk for his revolutionary progression from the old testament, and his amazing progressive tolerance and goodwill towards the dregs of society. That would still be true if god acted through Farmer Hank instead of shooting his seed at Mary from the clouds.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:33
|
|
|
Krypt-OOO-Nite!! posted:It's cool if you like them but please man stop trying to pretend there's a hidden depth to them. I know it's your thing but it's annoying and that's coming from someone who has very little investment in Star Wars as whole.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:33
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Jesus has respect across multiple religions and even nonreligious folk for his revolutionary progression from the old testament, and his amazing progressive tolerance and goodwill towards the dregs of society. Yes, I'm talking about Christians, since no other religion views Jesus as the Messiah.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:36
|
|
|
And I'm saying that it's a poor metaphor, because Anakin never displays any messianic qualities beyond a virgin birth. "Even Anakin was corrupted!" Has little impact when from the very start we witness his graceful progression from tearing up racers in a bloodsport, blowing up sentient beings carelessly while mashing buttons, murdering an entire tribe, then murdering the entire council based off a dream and a promise from the creepy dude who advocated leaving his friend to die.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:41
|
|
|
computer parts posted:He's literally a virgin birth. Nah it was Sheev and Plagoois who accidentally impregnated her when they tried to rape God The latest RLM video has more details
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:41
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:And I'm saying that it's a poor metaphor, because Anakin never displays any messianic qualities beyond a virgin birth. As I explained, "Being a good person" is not a requirement. This loops back to the tired complaint about Anakin needing to be
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:41
|
|
|
computer parts posted:As I explained, "Being a good person" is not a requirement. Then what's the point in saying he was corrupted, when he was always an rear end in a top hat to begin with? If jesus was an rear end in a top hat, he probably would have piloted a spaceship and blew up harlots before murdering all Christians? Is that the point?
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:44
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Then what's the point in saying he was corrupted, when he was always an rear end in a top hat to begin with? What makes you think 9 year old Anakin is an rear end in a top hat?
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:We never actually see Anakin be jesus, though? He wins a pod race, murders an entire tribe, then murders an entire group. It's less corrupting messiah so much as giving Lucifer a thumbs up. Anakin and Darth Vader are different characters. As in the Bugs Bunny cartoon with the hats, wearing a mask changes a character entirely. Krypt-OOO-Nite!! posted:Give me a break pal. There is no 'hidden depth'. The giant lizard fighting the four-armed robot is some pure Ray Harryhausen b-movie insanity, illustrating simple (but nuanced) concepts like 'animal vs. machine', and so-on. And that is powerful in a way Force Awakens is not, with its "deep" storyline about a nazi plot to blow up the sun. If b-movies embarrass you, why are you watching Star Wars?
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
Saw the film today. Was thoroughly disappointed. It had no interesting dialogue, no striking visuals (with the exception of the ruins in the desert planet), the badguys are just the most boring and uninteresting people ever. nothing about this movie was inspired, it seems like a more boring retread of things we've already seen. even the shock moments were super flat. I went in really wanting to like this movie, but it was just so tepid on a lot of levels I'm honestly shocked about why it got this much hype. Also, the silver Giant Storm trooper was the biggest waste of a cool villain I have ever seen. This movie is really average and not that great at all. nothing stood out. I hate to say it I mean, George lucas is a loving monster but at least his garbage elicited some kind of emotional response out of me. The new droid was fun though, the cameos were cool I guess, the pew pew sections were a little fun. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Jan 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:46
|
|
|
computer parts posted:What makes you think 9 year old Anakin is an rear end in a top hat? He's a stupid little annoying oval office with a poo poo haircut. Will that do?
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:47
|
|
|
Krypt-OOO-Nite!! posted:He's a stupid little annoying oval office with a poo poo haircut. Nope.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:47
|
|
|
computer parts posted:What makes you think 9 year old Anakin is an rear end in a top hat? Well, he cant pronounce Coruscant and doesn't shed a tear for the countless droids (who we've established as sentient beings) he kills, so that's a start. He doesn't consider buying his mother's freedom for the 11+ years he spends at Space New York rent-free, either. He totally would have been that troubled Coruscant High kid who ends up in Space Juvie early on to prepare for Space Prison, if he didn't have the Jedi Council behind him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:49
|
|
|
Krypt-OOO-Nite!! posted:He's a stupid little annoying oval office with a poo poo haircut. Let's deal in facts, not attitude.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:49
|
|
|
He also stole a pod cruiser (I think?) from his master, and in TFA criticism we have established that as a character-defining trait that establishes the character as an enemy of the proletariat.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:52
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Well, he cant pronounce Coruscant and doesn't shed a tear for the countless droids (who we've established as sentient beings) he kills, so that's a start. He doesn't consider buying his mother's freedom for the 11+ years he spends at Space New York rent-free, either. He totally would have been that troubled Coruscant High kid who ends up in Space Juvie early on to prepare for Space Prison, if he didn't have the Jedi Council behind him. So, nothing then.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 01:52
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:He also stole a pod cruiser (I think?) from his master, and in TFA criticism we have established that as a character-defining trait that establishes the character as an enemy of the proletariat. What?
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 02:03
|
|
|
Nine-year old Anakin isn't an rear end in a top hat, and it'd be pretty bizarre for anyone to think so. Jake Lloyd's Anakin is a perfectly polite, thoughtful, respectful person. Which is either incredibly fitting or incredibly strange for a slave, I dunno. Seeing that Anakin be conflicted and corrupted by the tragedies of his life would have been pretty moving. But that Anakin doesn't even exist by his very first scene in AotC. By that point Anakin is absolutely impulsive, disobedient, and undisciplined. Why? Is it simply because he became a teenager? Was Obi-Wan really that bad of a caretaker? Was Anakin really that unhappy as a Padawan? Was the Jedi Order really that ill-prepared to handle a student that they didn't raise from birth? Either way, it was as if Anakin had already been halfway corrupted offscreen by the time we saw him in the second film, so of course it came across unsatisfying.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 02:05
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:The very first shot of the movie I'm talking about. Pretty sure all six movies start with a pan to either a planet or a full blown visible spaceship. This one... pans to absolute blackness and its revealed that the blackness is the shadow of a ship, with just hints of what is going on peppered throughout the shot. I'm a few pages behind, so this may have been addressed already... But no it doesn't. We get the crawl, then a pan to a blue-white planet (or possibly moon of Jakku), which the Finalizer then eclipses, coming up from below frame. We don't pan to "absolute blackness"
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 02:15
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Anakin and Darth Vader are different characters. Your scrapping the barrel there with that reading buddy. Honestly the illusion to the 20th century's "war of the world" by combining both the imagery of fascist rallies and the testing of the atomic bomb means that the "nazi sun weapon" (btw not the the plot to blow up a sun but to use it's incredible power as a weapon, did you even watch the movie?) is linked to what is possibly what is darkest era and most self-destructive period of modern civilisation. Both the period were the darkest side of mankind came out in a way unknown before with industrialised hate and genocide and lead to the invention of a destructive power more damaging and dangerous than could be imagined. A period we've only really just come out of and which we are still dealing with. See it's easy to do your nonsense fella. And I love daft B-movie stuff that's partly why I do like Star Wars but like anything it's only good when done well. The stupid scene of Obi sneaking around on a giant bloody lizard(??) to chase down a robot/cyborg bad guy who we have no real knowledge of but the movie acts as if we do, who then starts twirling around a half dozen light-sabres because why not could have been done well and been stupid fun but it wasn't. Also FYI at no point did I say any of the Star Wars movies had oceans of depth and meaning. Actually I do believe there is a lot of half decent thinking and philosophy throughout all of Star Wars (more by accident than planned.) but more in the general sense and not in your entry level to hidden meaning bullshit. Your the main idiotic poster who attempts to make himself appear clever by ascribing surface level depths to movies in the style of someone who's read a book on meaning of film to every bloody movie even if there's nothing to base any of the shitte that spills from your mouth on. It's cool, I know you only do it for fun and aren't actually serious, at least that's what I hope. Shine on you nutball. Krypt-OOO-Nite!! fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Jan 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 02:17
|
|
|
jivjov posted:I'm a few pages behind, so this may have been addressed already... What he means is that, in every previous Star Wars film, this would be an establishing shot of the major planetary setting (Naboo, Tatooine, Coruscant, Endor, etc.). Jakku's moon is never visited at any point - and this means Jakku never gets an establishing shot. We only see troop transports flying off into a void.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 02:26
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:What he means is that, in every previous Star Wars film, this would be an establishing shot of the major planetary setting (Naboo, Tatooine, Coruscant, Endor, etc.). If that's what he meant, then why did he say "we pan to absolute blackness"? which is completely inaccurate. Also, Empire Strikes Back pans over to a Star Destroyer near a nameless planet before shooting off probe droids. We never visit that planet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 02:29
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:What he means is that, in every previous Star Wars film, this would be an establishing shot of the major planetary setting (Naboo, Tatooine, Coruscant, Endor, etc.).
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 02:30
|
|
|
jivjov posted:If that's what he meant, then why did he say "we pan to absolute blackness"? which is completely inaccurate. Pretty sure that's Hoth? Also, I did think it was a strange choice to either have the stormtrooper transports fly away from Jakku, towards the viewer, or have Jakku be behind the camera but then not pan to it as the transports fly by. Maybe they planned it that way but decided the cut to the interior of the transport was more streamlined. It's a cool image though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 02:32
|
|
|
Anakin's mother (Schmee? Help me out here, someone who's actually seen the movie within the last decade) needed some help around the house so he built her a protocol droid with a snooty attitude that can't even bend its arms properly What a lovely kid. Also spinning is NOT a good trick
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 02:33
|
|
|
Prolonged Priapism posted:Pretty sure that's Hoth? Can't be; they mention how remote and far away Hoth is from them, and that doesn't make a whole lot of sense if that was the planet they were orbiting around at the time. Plus the rebels on Hoth would have detected them. Krowley posted:Anakin's mother (Schmee? Help me out here, someone who's actually seen the movie within the last decade) Shmi
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 02:35
|
|
|
Yeah it's not Hoth. Ozzel bites it cause he comes out of hyperspace on the trip there too close.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 02:49
|
|
|
jivjov posted:Can't be; they mention how remote and far away Hoth is from them, and that doesn't make a whole lot of sense if that was the planet they were orbiting around at the time. Plus the rebels on Hoth would have detected them. Just watched it again and I guess you're right. It shows the Star Destroyer (with some vague planets/moons in the distance) birthing a bunch of probes, then tracks one in particular. There's a cut where it flies off towards empty space, then another cut and we see Hoth, which it flies towards. I always thought the Star Destroyer(s) was jumping around from system to system, dispatching probes and then leaving right away - the opening crawl says "thousands" of probes, and we see maybe a dozen in that batch. So what we see isn't necessarily the ship Vader is on, and it's not literally right above Hoth, but it's also probably not that far from Hoth at the moment either. It just leaves to go somewhere else to dispatch more probes. Since we're talking about ESB it's interesting to compare the AotC "droids only look at symbols" sleuthing to Vader's ESB trust of what the probe droid shows him (everyone else is hella skeptical). What's the image that convinces him?  "It's the funny little cuts in the side that give it away."
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 03:00
|
|
|
jivjov posted:If that's what he meant, then why did he say "we pan to absolute blackness"? which is completely inaccurate. Because he made a simple factual error (two moons are briefly visible) while saying something true: there is no establishing shot. We see a random moon blotted out by absolute darkness and then all these ships fly away from it. Empire Strikes Back is unique because it pans down to an Imperial ship firing towards the screen (a reversal of the opening scene in A New Hope), but it quickly cuts to an establishing shot of Hoth. It's a variation on the formula, where Force Awakens is a subversion of it (kind-of).
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 03:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:59 |
|
|
jivjov posted:If that's what he meant, then why did he say "we pan to absolute blackness"? which is completely inaccurate. Jesus loving Christ are you being pedantic. Will you at least concede that the establishing shot has shadows at least? And I didn't originally say it was all black. I did say they were slivers of what can be seen throughout but it was unlike all six previous movies, which opened on fully exposed establishing shots of either planets or spaceships. I swear, it's like trying to talk theology with someone who can only read the bible in literal terms and either rejects/embraces it based on those literal terms alone.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2016 03:52
|
|
