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Beeez posted:Ben Kenobi served her father in the Clone Wars and safeguarded her brother for 19 years. Alternatively, they just thought it was a good name. I can't wait for the EU book where it's established he was named after Leia's uncle on her mother's side, Ben'jam'n Phrnk, who was instrumental in leaking the Starkiller Base's trench layout. EDIT: You know what, did Luke ever name any of his kids after Owen and Beru Lars, the actual people who raised him? Seems kinda insensitive he didn't. Calaveron fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 02:16
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I just thought of this right now, but this might be the only movie I have ever seen where one of the main characters reveals their secret, and the other main character doesn't get irrationally butthurt over it. Finn: "I'm not resistance, I'm not a hero. . . I'm a stormtrooper . . . " Rey: "Don't go." JJ gets bonus point for not using that horrible cliché.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:18
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Phylodox posted:Unlike Ren, Vader doesn't need to violently rip information from Luke's mind. One of the recurring plot points of Return of the Jedi is that Luke and Vader share a bond. Vader is able to sense Luke on the shuttle (and Luke senses him sensing him). When Vader tells the Emperor this, Palpatine's reaction is "Hmmm...weird that you sensed him and I didn't". Vader is able to read Luke's mind easily because of this bond. I read the mental scanning in the throne room somewhat differently. I've always interpreted it less as Vader searching Luke's mind and more Luke broadcasting the information only to Vader to further weaken his resolve.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:33
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Elfgames posted:The first is a repeating gif in a flashy sword fight and i'm pretty sure is probably quite standard choreography in such fights and even if it isn't i fail to see the relevence. People love calling out that fight as some kind of choreography fail but they were using the same moves to show the audience that they fight pretty much exactly the same since Obi Wan trained Anakin. It might be kind of hamfisted but there's a purpose behind it.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:33
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Barudak posted:I read the mental scanning in the throne room somewhat differently. I've always interpreted it less as Vader searching Luke's mind and more Luke broadcasting the information only to Vader to further weaken his resolve. It's Vader, not the ostensibly more powerful Emperor, who's pickin' up what Luke's puttin' out there, though.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:39
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Noam Chomsky posted:People love calling out that fight as some kind of choreography fail but they were using the same moves to show the audience that they fight pretty much exactly the same since Obi Wan trained Anakin. It might be kind of hamfisted but there's a purpose behind it. I thought Obi-Wan and Darth Vader used different lightsaber forms
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Jan 4, 2016 02:40
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Blistex posted:I just thought of this right now, but this might be the only movie I have ever seen where one of the main characters reveals their secret, and the other main character doesn't get irrationally butthurt over it. Man I didn't even notice this. So used to the opposite happening.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:47
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Noam Chomsky posted:People love calling out that fight as some kind of choreography fail but they were using the same moves to show the audience that they fight pretty much exactly the same since Obi Wan trained Anakin. It might be kind of hamfisted but there's a purpose behind it. I'm inclined to give the prequels a break on their sabering in that Jedi had some weird rules of engagement. Fighting almost seemed like a dance where at the end the loser 'accidentally' gets impaled because even trying to strike down a Sith Lord is enough to tip you towards the Dark Side. Using that logic, Rey's already on the wrong path because she was definitely trying to kill Ren with her lightsaber. Maybe Luke has figured out a bipartisan Force discipline that lets you be good while still killing poo poo and maybe even shooting lighting bolts out of your hands.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:50
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Krispy Kareem posted:I'm inclined to give the prequels a break on their sabering in that Jedi had some weird rules of engagement. Fighting almost seemed like a dance where at the end the loser 'accidentally' gets impaled because even trying to strike down a Sith Lord is enough to tip you towards the Dark Side. Nah, he's just cribbing from the book of Mace Windu. Who could actually tap into the Dark Side without being turned.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:55
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Phylodox posted:The problem is that you've got people who dislike the prequels because they are trying to enjoy them as movies, and can't because of the contrived plots, stilted dialogue, and wooden acting, and you've got people who like the prequels because they are trying to appreciate them as cinema, and can because of the use of visual storytelling, thematic resonance, and social, commercial, and political commentary. Neither side is "wrong", but they're looking for different things from different perspectives. When you're making a space adventure film, only one of those two interpretations needs to be served (the former). If the characters, story and writing are all awful, then it doesn't really matter what political message it conveys. TFA succeeds on the first part, and still holds up when viewed with the lens of Soggy Cereal's millennial subtext (which was loving awesome to read, and captured a lot of stray thoughts I had). Assuming everything SMG says about the prequels is true, what would it matter? There's a million other places to find opinions about propping up feudalism or whatever, you don't need to see it in a movie with crappy characters and story.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:56
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Filthy Casual posted:When you're making a space adventure film, only one of those two interpretations needs to be served (the former). The implicit ideology (assumption) here is that space adventure films require you to turn off your brain.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:59
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Krispy Kareem posted:Using that logic, Rey's already on the wrong path because she was definitely trying to kill Ren with her lightsaber. Yeah I'm interested to see what they do with this. She had a rage face while he was crawling backward on his rear end looking like a scared animal. In any other Star Wars movie, that means she's in real deep trouble, and I hope they explore that. Or maybe it's a stupid emotional/tactical realism thing - "of course she'd be angry and trying to win, not like those spinny weightless PT fights!"
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Jan 4, 2016 03:00
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iSheep posted:Man I didn't even notice this. So used to the opposite happening. As soon as he said, "Yeah, I'm with the resistance" I was waiting for the "reveal" and Rey to get pissed and abandon him, then at the end get saved by him. There is probably a specific cinema term for this since I think I might have literally seen at least 50 movies with this exact same gimmick. Another thing that I liked was them shooting up the other tie fighters and the hangar control room before taking off. Whenever you see someone escaping an enemy base they almost never do something like that to make their escape easier, as "the bad guys need to chase them". Biggest gripe would have to be Captain Phasma. . . what was the point of that character except marketing? I'm wondering if we're going to find out that a lot of her scenes were left on the cutting room floor.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:02
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computer parts posted:The implicit ideology (assumption) here is that space adventure films require you to turn off your brain. It'd be kinda hard to watch if your eyes and ears had no place to report. I've never thought your brain needed to be turned off for a blockbuster action spectacular, but your heart's voice should definitely be the louder of the two. Its why I found SMG's line about movies not being "friendship simulators" so funny. If there aren't at least a few characters you like and want to hang with, contrasted with a few you despise, how the hell can you get invested in anything that happens?
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Jan 4, 2016 03:05
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Filthy Casual posted:
I dunno, people seem invested enough to hate the PT, even 10-15 years down the line.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:08
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Smoking Crow posted:I thought Obi-Wan and Darth Vader used different lightsaber forms Vader does but Anakin didn't.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:10
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Noam Chomsky posted:Vader does but Anakin didn't. Anakin used djem so and obi Wan used soresu.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:15
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Calaveron posted:I can't wait for the EU book where it's established he was named after Leia's uncle on her mother's side, Ben'jam'n Phrnk, who was instrumental in leaking the Starkiller Base's trench layout. Maybe if Owen had let Luke go to Tosche Station to pick up some power converters a few more times he rate a kid naming!
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Jan 4, 2016 03:15
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Kingtheninja posted:Anakin used djem so and obi Wan used soresu. I think that's just EU and cartoon nonsense.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:16
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Maybe someone can clear this up for me - is the Dark Side actually bad? I mean, would life under Sith rule be that terrible? I imagine you really need to follow the rules - but they're not some kind of death cult are they? Usually in stories where it's Light versus Darkness, Darkness is armageddon. I don't get that from what I can see of the Sith. They just seem to have a different perspective on how to run a galaxy. Granted, I've never read any of the EU so maybe I'm missing a Wookie holocaust or something.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:16
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computer parts posted:I dunno, people seem invested enough to hate the PT, even 10-15 years down the line. Speaking for myself, I hate the movies as a whole because I felt so little about the characters beyond "dumb and bad". I liked Palpatine, because he seems to view that galaxy like a Bethesda PC.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:19
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Prolonged Priapism posted:Yeah I'm interested to see what they do with this. She had a rage face while he was crawling backward on his rear end looking like a scared animal. In any other Star Wars movie, that means she's in real deep trouble, and I hope they explore that. Or maybe it's a stupid emotional/tactical realism thing - "of course she'd be angry and trying to win, not like those spinny weightless PT fights!" quote:During the lightsaber duel at the end of the story, the screenplay gives us some insight into what’s going on inside Rey’s head during the end of this big battle. As Rey slashes Kylo again and again with Luke Skywalker’s lightsaber, the script says that as Ren goes down, suddenly he is “a fearful man, a large burn scar slashed across his face.”
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Jan 4, 2016 03:20
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Filthy Casual posted:Speaking for myself, I hate the movies as a whole because I felt so little about the characters beyond "dumb and bad". I liked Palpatine, because he seems to view that galaxy like a Bethesda PC. And yet despite feeling so little, it's sustained your hatred for (presumably) a decade now.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:22
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So what. Let people hate movies.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:23
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Krispy Kareem posted:Maybe someone can clear this up for me - is the Dark Side actually bad? I mean, would life under Sith rule be that terrible? I imagine you really need to follow the rules - but they're not some kind of death cult are they? So, before all the EU and video game insanity, in the actual OT movies, I believe it was just basically Space Zen Buddhism. To transcend and achieve enlightenment and become one with the force you must let go of attachments and channel your emotions into positive ends and suppress anger, fear, and hatred. Practitioners of the dark side of the force use the force for domination of the physical realm at the cost of never transcending their physical forms and becoming one with the force. That was always my interpretation. The Empire is only "evil" because it's totalitarian and a dictatorship. Basically they're just Nazis, I guess. It's all basic morality. The Dark: Aggression, control, greed, authoritarianism, fear, hatred. The Light: Kindness, freedom, generosity, democracy, courage, love. I ignore all EU bullshit because it's just that. And despite enjoying some of the video games, they're bullshit too. A lot of things have ruined Star Wars in some ways but what's ruined it the most is the nerd need to name and wiki and categorize everything. A lot of the fun of the OT was what we didn't know. Also, I think the prequels did a lot a damage to the Jedi as a concept. When I watched the OT when I was younger, I never thought the Jedi were supposed to suppress all emotions and be robot monks. That was one of the dumbest things about the prequels - they managed to make laser sword wielding space wizards boring as gently caress. Huzanko fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 03:26
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There's no wrong way to watch a movie. There are counterproductive ways to discuss movies, such as telling people to "shut off your brains and enjoy it" or just lecturing people about how your Randian interpretation is the One True Way, for example. It's also important to note the difference between shutting off your brain and not thinking analytically while watching a movie. If you need to literally stop thinking to enjoy something, it's probably a bad movie. If a movie speaks to you on a purely emotional level, that's not bad.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:27
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Krispy Kareem posted:Maybe someone can clear this up for me - is the Dark Side actually bad? I mean, would life under Sith rule be that terrible? I imagine you really need to follow the rules - but they're not some kind of death cult are they? If the Empire is Space Nazism, then the Dark Side is like the underlying philosophy of it - personal power above anything else. There's a reason why number one cause of death for Sith is "other Sith", and that Palpatine's endgame was basically parking his rear end in the highest seat in the galaxy for decades. mycot fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 03:27
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Filthy Casual posted:If there aren't at least a few characters you like and want to hang with, contrasted with a few you despise, how the hell can you get invested in anything that happens? They're not real ppl....
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Jan 4, 2016 03:46
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BrianWilly posted:From the screenplay and novelization: yeah, i got that feeling from the movie too. she uses anger/emotional force to beat kylo into submission and then pulls back from fulling giving in.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:55
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Elfgames posted:He talks about feelings not memories, even if it has technically the same result it feels more natural he's not pulling out secrets deep inside Luke he's reading Luke's feelings. I just watched rotj. He literally reads Lukes mind.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:45
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computer parts posted:And yet despite feeling so little, it's sustained your hatred for (presumably) a decade now. Would you say that people who don't care for these movies are Dumb And So God drat Crazy?
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Jan 4, 2016 04:55
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Krispy Kareem posted:Maybe someone can clear this up for me - is the Dark Side actually bad? I mean, would life under Sith rule be that terrible? I imagine you really need to follow the rules - but they're not some kind of death cult are they?  I dunno, you tell me.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:18
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I think Krispy Kareem is intentionally segregating Sith from Galactic Empire.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:20
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I think Krispy Kareem is intentionally segregating Sith from Galactic Empire. Wasn't the Galactic Empire created and overseen by a Sith Lord and self-made Emperor? You can't really segregate the two in the films.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:27
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I think Krispy Kareem is intentionally segregating Sith from Galactic Empire.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:29
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I assumed he was talking about some other point in SW history besides the movie timeline. Obviously Sith rule at that time would be terrible on account of the We'll Blow Your Planet Up thing. Overall though I'd say Sith rule at any time would suck, since the Two Commandments are: 1. gently caress you, got mine 2. Kill your teacher
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Jan 4, 2016 05:32
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TheMaestroso posted:Wasn't the Galactic Empire created and overseen by a Sith Lord and self-made Emperor? You can't really segregate the two in the films. I think you can. The Galactic Empire isn't run like a religious cult. The Emperor and Vader are Sith, and it informs their actions, but the Empire at large doesn't believe in or follow the Sith religion, as evidenced by Admiral Motti's dialogue in A New Hope.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:32
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The Empire is just the Republic renamed, with Palpatine being handed power for an indefinite period. It wasn't actually created by the Sith. Dialogue in the first SW even suggests that the Senate is still kept around.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:38
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Krowley posted:Would you say that people who don't care for these movies are Dumb And So God drat Crazy? I dunno, it just seems strange to argue that the PT doesn't get you invested in them when they most definitely have that effect on people.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:39
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Lord Krangdar posted:The Empire is just the Republic renamed, with Palpatine being handed power for an indefinite period. It wasn't actually created by the Sith. Dialogue in the first SW even suggests that the Senate is still kept around. Then gotten rid of once Palpatine was decided it was no longer needed and gave all the power to the Moffs.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:44
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