|
My grandma's brother was in the Guards, fighting in North Africa, and she thinks he went to Italy after but isn't sure. Her eldest brother was in WW1, and died escorting German POWs back to base when the entire line was ambushed. that's it that's my relative's war stories I know more about my granpa's service in the RAF but he was much later, 60s-90s.
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 01:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 18:07 |
|
|
The battalion my great-grandfather commanded was the first to reach the roof of the Reichstag. Nobody else did anything particularly notable.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 01:53
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:My maternal grandfather worked in an Army law office in the states, so he came away with a very cynical view of life on the front lines. So basically, he produced the primary sources for Hegel's 2416 equivalent. Edit: Oh poo poo, a new Taiping post!
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 02:02
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:So basically, he produced the primary sources for Hegel's 2416 equivalent. My grandfather in question has said that he enlisted with a very idealistic view of the strapping young men fighting for freedom around the world, then proceeded to spend three wartime years processing paperwork for drunks, deserters, rapists, and murderers, and that's colored his view of the military for the rest of his life.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 02:09
|
|
|
Ensign Expendable posted:The battalion my great-grandfather commanded was the first to reach the roof of the Reichstag. Nobody else did anything particularly notable. I'd say that's rather notable by itself.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 02:10
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:My grandfather in question has said that he enlisted with a very idealistic view of the strapping young men fighting for freedom around the world, then proceeded to spend three wartime years processing paperwork for drunks, deserters, rapists, and murderers, and that's colored his view of the military for the rest of his life.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 02:24
|
|
|
Grandpa on my Mom's side was an accountant at a Cooperage when the war started and because Logistics are Important he got to stay there for the duration. He and my Grandmother ended up moving into the house of some Japanese-American friends of theirs to protect the house from vandals/looters while the friends were interned during the war.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 02:28
|
|
|
One grandfather was in the Coast Guard and got pulled into ferrying troops around the Pacific. He almost got killed by a kamakazie during Leyte. The other was artillery in the pacific, saw a lot of action in the Philippines and Okinawa, including having his guns nearly overrun once. One time my dad asked if he still felt any animosity towards the Japanese and his response was "no, I figure I killed enough of them back then. We got really good at it. We could drop an artillery round in their back pockets towards the end." That grandfather was pretty supportive of all his sons trying to stay as far the gently caress away from Vietnam as possible.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 03:00
|
|
|
The navigator grandfather died about 5 years before I was born of a heart attack so my knowledge is mostly secondhand from my dad and his brothers and that little journal he kept. My other grandfather was a welder who served in the navy and had his ship get sunk at some point in 1944. We recovered his war records but those are in the hand of my cousin who lives in Guatemala because we wanted to get replacements for the war medals he lost for my grandma after he died. His only cousin died too during the war and as an only child he was the last one left on that side of the family. My grandmas (married to navigator grandpa) younger brother was a landing craft operator in the pacific and while I was young and didn't really listen I remember one story he was telling about Okinawa. He was doing a supply run and it was foggy and apparently they got lost... luckily the supplies they were brining was mostly beer because the fighting was winding down. Well they got a little drunk and woke up later after the fog cleared to find the water full of corpses from all the civilians that jumped off cliffs  . That sounds loving beyond awful waking up with a hangover to be surrounded by bodies floating in the sea.Cyrano4747 posted:
My navigator grandfather who ended his service as a Major in the Airforce, told my uncle after he enlisted in the air-force "Why would you go do something as stupid as that"... He ended up being culinary services in Georgia and has a deep hatred for the deep south which is amusing. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Jan 4, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 03:14
|
|
|
Trin Tragula posted:War is poo poo. This is why I have decided to spend the 1st of January 1916 talking about poo poo. Also the dead, and other such cheerful and smelly things. The smell of this war is easy to ignore when you're trying to hold the visual and audible horrors in mind at once, and yet a very large number of people had their own go at describing it, so let's just go over it again. Plus it provides a decent excuse to mention that the Italian Army apparently has no sanitary discipline whatsoever, which I'm sure will get a knowing nod out of HEY GAL. both subjectively and objectively, my guys have it better than yours in the area of cleanliness: they're highly mobile the day after a large battle they're usually somewhere else and the dead are someone else's problem now they're more used to stuff like that from their civilian lives, and none of them i've read yet describes any of this with the same disgust as Gadda does his surroundings, it's not an affront to them on the same basic level as it is to him on the other hand: they have more horses per capita, they also have cattle they get sick more often when they're in camp they throw the remains of butchered /skinned cattle just outside the walls, which is also where dead horses end up they have the habit of turning untanned animal hides into makeshift tents big sieges were pretty much world war 1 with early modern technology except everyone on both sides was also starving to death, however there were nowhere near as many people, which is important
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 03:27
|
|
|
My paternal grandfather was in the RAF as a navigator, I'm pretty sure he flew on one of these for a long time: 'cause I had a toy of that when I was younger (mine was shiny and silver though) and then on a bomber of some description; he never wanted to talk about it. My grandmother was Bulgarian studying in Italy, she had lots of stories of near-disaster fraught journeys to keep in contact with her family during that time. My maternal grandparents were both too young, but the family of my grandfather was all career military in the US army and my great-grandfather was rich as hell so I assume he was doing something important. Funnier to me though is after the war- he had three kids, and you'd better believe he expected his two sons to follow his path in the military when they grew up, but my grandfather was a lumpy nerd and was having none of it, and his brother wasn't much better. After years and years my great-grandfather had finally given up, when he then found out that meanwhile, behind everyone's backs, their sister had gone off to fight in Korea and rose to the rank of major.  She's still alive thankfully, but she was working in intelligence and even though I assume everything she was doing has been declassified five times over what with it being half a century ago, she's still never opened up about it. I'm seeing her in a couple of months again though so I might ask. Koramei fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jan 4, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 03:58
|
|
|
Thanks again for the great Taiping posts. Love to read them. From what I recall from Autumn in the Heavenly Kingdom the last four years of the rebellion are pretty intense so this is far from over.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 03:58
|
|
|
Dad's father was called up in 1944 and was an aide with an evacuation hospital. He didn't tell many stories. There is a short document that was passed around at one of their reunions and it's skimpy on details, too, more concerned about their innocent recreation while training in England than their time in the rest of Europe. It does mention they encountered recently liberated Dachau prisoners, but only in passing. Grandpa did do an interview with some high school kids about 25 years ago, which I didn't know about until I stumbled upon the tape a few months ago. They were mainly interested in life in our hometown in the early 1900s and while he mentioned his service in the Army, they didn't ask for further details. He did tell a story or two about his oldest brother, who served in World War I. The brother served in the Army and in Siberia. He said the extreme cold apparently impacted his brother's health for the rest of his life. He died in his 40s. I wish I could find regimental rolls. Mom's father went as far as an Army physical in Atlanta. He was 19 when war was declared and the main source of income for his farming family. I assume that's why he was not drafted.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 04:04
|
|
|
My father in law was on a Liberty ship in the Pacific, he told me their convoy shot a Japanese plane down once and all he could think was there goes another life. My wife's uncle was on the USS England DE-635, they sank 6 subs in 12 days near the Admiralty Islands and about a year later they were hit by a Kamikaze near Okinawa, his cousin who was also on the ship was MIA.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 04:31
|
|
|
My paternal grandfather was in the SeaBees in the Pacific as I understand it, driving a bulldozer. Didn't get too many stories directly from him since he had a stroke when I was very young and had severe speech issues, but I understand from my father he actually used to have a Japanese rifle at their house that apparently came from an incident when a Japanese soldier was sniping at my grandfather's group. Another US soldier killed the sniper and apparently gave Grandpa the gun as a souvenir. Didn't stay in post-war but ran a couple different businesses including a military surplus store apparently. Maternal grandfather was actually in the Army Air Corps pre-war but got invalided out due to some medical issues before the US actually entered the war. Main things I got from him about his military service were that he apparently got himself dressed down pretty hard for starting to goose-step during a march once, and he was really fond of the Stearman biplane trainer aircraft from back then, possibly related to the fact they have an annual fly-in of those where he and my mom's side of the family live (it is gorgeous to watch, though usually I haven't been able to visit when they fly in thanks to my schedule).
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 05:03
|
|
|
My Mum's Dad was in the Royal Navy, first as a gunner on HMS Anson and then as a beach clearance commando supporting the Canadians in Normandy.Koramei posted:My paternal grandfather was in the RAF as a navigator, I'm pretty sure he flew on one of these for a long time: Dad's Dad was RAF ground crew, spent the war in Karachi and did some work on Catalinas involved in the Double Sunrise flights.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 05:10
|
|
|
It's great to hear everybody's family stories. They drive home how many military jobs there are that don't involve pulling a trigger. (Cue Hey Gal reminding us that the best soldiers never touch a trigger because a pike doesn't have one)
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 05:26
|
|
|
My dad was in the British 8th Army as an Engineer. Called up from his job at British Tobacco, (he was reserves I believe) got trained and then shipped out late '39. His troop ship was chugging across the Atlantic, heading for somewhere in the Pacific when it was Full Stop, turn around, aim for Alexandria. He was involved all the way through Italy. I've got a bunch of pic's, old Palestine, dead tanks, a lot of little cemeteries. He only had funny stories for us kids, but I heard other tales while overhearing the grown-ups... not as heroic, sad scary stuff for the so called "civilized war" in the desert. I've been meaning to scan them pictures, I'll do that toute suite. He said that as far as he was concerned the BEST war movie of the desert war was "Play Dirty". A couple of scenes shook him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 05:41
|
|
|
As long as we're sharing family service records: My paternal grandfather served on a PT boat in the pacific (yes, I'm a Kennedy) but he passed in '62, possibly from something related to the war/the pacific. Apparently he never talked about it--which is fair--so I'm not sure I'd even have gotten a story out of him. My maternal grandfather trained to be a pilot for the USN but VJ day occurred before he ever left the states. Maybe he has some fun training stories or the such; I'll ask him next time I see him. However, his younger brother served on the USS Pueblo when it was captured (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2)#Pueblo_incident). He even wrote a book! It's been years since I've read it but the story that stands out the most is how the crew would flip the bird in North Korean propaganda photos and told their captors it was a Hawaiian sign of good luck. Quite amusing until the North Koreans figured it out and the next month was known as Hell Month. e Here's the book http://www.amazon.com/Bridge-No-Return-Ordeal-U-S-S/dp/015113880X It's out of print so I'm definitely not making any money off it. Pontius Pilate fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jan 4, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 05:47
|
|
|
My maternal grandfather was a mobile radar set operator and in the Battle of the Bulge. He also did some stuff in North Africa and apparently had some issues with whatever that was. Mom has a story about how they were driving past a Lebanese street festival or something 40 years ago with bands and food tents and he went pale and quietly demanded that the car be turned around. He never had a single racist or anti-immigrant tendency that anyone can remember, and he was a pragmatic wrench-turning kind of guy who never got emotional so we figure something about middle eastern music or food smells or whatever brought him back to North Africa. I'll ask mom and her siblings about that and see if I can track down a unit or date or something because I'm really curious now that I remember that story. I doubt I'll ever find out what really brought it on because he's gone now and I don't think he would have ever told anyone. I'm also curious as to what unit would have had mobile radar and fought in both North Africa and Belgium but maybe he got reassigned? Kind of embarrassed that I don't know more about what he did.
hogmartin fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jan 4, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 05:52
|
|
|
Apparently my grandpa was the poor schmuck that actually had to shoot fascism. Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. No stories, died when I was a tyke, but grandma still had some metal label off a Nazi airplane that he collected when they were part of air defense in England. They went on to Sicily and Italy after that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 05:54
|
|
|
Somehow my family makes kids real slow so one of my grandfathers spent WWII as an engineer and then as an actor in the USO, the most interesting thing I heard was that he worked in the Empire State Building and never missed a day of work when the bomber hit even though he'd been in a car accident and then had years of what I think was Osteomyelitis that messed his legs up really badly, and the other grandfather actually volunteered for the Marines and the story I heard was that everybody knew he was going behind a desk and he had to ask not to get shuffled through expedited basic. On the other hand there's an uncle who went off and came back with a Silver Star, but he didn't share the story with anyone, and everyone got the impression the whole thing seriously disturbed him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 06:01
|
|
|
I never got any stories from either grandpa, but one was a UDT platoon leader in the Pacific and the other enlisted in 46 or 47 and was a photographer for Operation Teapot. I got a newspaper clipping or two that mentioned UDT grandpa but that's about it. My great uncles were slightly more interesting. One was an infantry private who won the bronze star for helping some guys wounded by mines, the other was this guy. The family has what we're 99% sure was his service 1911 and I still shoot it sometimes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 06:11
|
|
|
Base Emitter posted:Apparently my grandpa was the poor schmuck that actually had to shoot fascism... mostly it was cleaning the boat and trying not to get malaria though. and then he deserted.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 06:18
|
|
|
I just asked about it and it turns out my grandfather was part of a flight of bombers that attacked Florence at the same time my grandmother- his future wife- was studying in the city.  Stuff like that must happen a lot I suppose but it's scary hearing about it.As for my maternal great grand father, he was in charge of planning the pentagon during the war or something? Not so important after all. Apparently he had the bright idea of putting a giant tower in the middle of it. Pretty glad that got shot down to be honest.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 06:38
|
|
|
My grandparents were civilians, and the only stuff grandad ever told me was about the partisans fighting the reds after the war.He loves Lithuania while my dad just hates the reds.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 08:18
|
|
|
My paternal grandfather was listed as a PFC in Europe, after enlisting in 1942 (possibly late 41, I can't recall fully but he was born in 1925 so I'm guessing 42) but my father isn't interested in requesting his records so I'm probably SOL. e: He came back and graduated high school in 1946, was reportedly a mean tough old bastard for the rest of his life. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Jan 4, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 08:46
|
|
|
My great-uncle fought in Italy with the second New Zealand division, was wounded, and invalided home. At which point he proceeded to volunteer again, was assigned to the third New Zealand division in the Pacific, was wounded again and sent home, at which point his file(?) was marked 'not fit for service under any circumstances'. I suppose there are limits.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 09:35
|
|
|
Your Great-Uncle might not have been the NZ Adrian Carton de Wiart, but he was going for it. "So we went to Italy, it's hot, full of rocks, the yanks are wankers, stuff's exploding all the time, and then I got shot" "You must have been sorry you went there?" "Sorry? I'm going back!"
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 10:01
|
|
|
One of my great-uncles was a Finnish communist who wound up as a Lt. General in the Red Army and a minister in the Finnish puppet government set up for the Winter War. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 11:07
|
|
|
Koramei posted:She's still alive thankfully, but she was working in intelligence and even though I assume everything she was doing has been declassified five times over what with it being half a century ago, she's still never opened up about it. I'm seeing her in a couple of months again though so I might ask. You might be surprised. Some of the stuff British intelligence was working on only got declassified a few years back - http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/23/2968435/alan-turing-cryptography-papers-released-gchq
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 11:48
|
|
|
My maternal grandad was a motorbike messenger in the Desert Rats and won a few medals, I hope for pulling sick wheelies under fire or doing a sweet jump like Steve McQueen in the Great Escape (he died in 1994 so I can't ask, alas) My paternal grandpa was a shipbuilder so never went to war, but he did do riveting on both HMS Hood and Belfast. We took him on a tour round Belfast and he pointed at all the rivets that he had done back in the day, apparently he worked mostly on the bow. Funnily enough my girlfriends granddad served on Belfast during the war, but he died recently so they never got to meet which would have been cool 
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 12:25
|
|
|
Maternal grandfather served with the Royal Navy for the British Somaliland Protectorate. I have a few of his archive stuff I want to dig out and some point. He had a lot of scars from fighting with a shark at one point. My paternal side worked in armour for the Army but never went into details about what regiment. He passed when I was quite young and now I'm serving I wish I had known. I've never gotten around to exploring it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 12:55
|
|
|
Maternal grandfather was too old for WW2, he served in WW1 though. Was shot in the head, and the bullet, so I'm told, ended up lodged on top of his brain and couldn't be removed. He also had a brother who straight up disappeared. People think he lied about his age, joined up and was killed. Paternal grandfather served in WW2 in the RAF. I don't know anything about what he did, just that he served in Burma, North Africa and Italy, and that along with the medals for those he also received a military OBE. Both died well before I was born, so I can't ask.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 13:51
|
|
|
From what I know, my grandpa was drafted into the Berling Army sometime in 1944 and served in the artillery corps in some capacity, going all the way to the Siege of Berlin. All I know for sure is that he came out of it hating the Russians, I didn't really ask him much. I guess I could go and find out, he was in a veteran's association. I remember he had a very funny-looking winter uniform on one photograph.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 14:14
|
|
|
100 Years Ago All caught up again! Yesterday: 1,000 words about what you missed from the air war in 1915. In short, the Germans have taken control of the skies on the Western Front, but in a situation that's sounding distressingly familiar after all the oodles of tankchat we've had recently, they've been building new Eindeckers at a painfully slow rate. Everyone's air doctrine has arrived at the idea of there being three broad jobs a plane can do, and they also now know you should develop specialised types of plane to perform them. Oh, and the Germans are launching a big aerial bombing campaign against French supply lines leading into Verdun. Meanwhile, Private Babou is now having the red carpet rolled out for him, and while Robert Palmer is now advancing, he shows no interest in military matters whatsoever because there's still some excellent grouse shooting to be had. Today: 1,000 words about what you missed from the air war in 1915. Italy is finally doing something right with its line of Caproni bombers, but the French spent 1915 going down all kinds of silly developmental cul-de-sacs while the Germans developed the Eindecker and a new generation of C-planes, and so they're now having their dinner money stolen on a daily basis. They did achieve one major coup by securing a supply of excellent Spanish engines, and then wasted the rest of the year while GQG and the politicians argued about what planes should be built for the engine; they're also about to trial a new single-seat design which needs to be an answer to the Eindecker in the worst way. In the meantime, they're left with far too many obsolete pushers bimbling around the sky barely fast enough to get out of their own way. Meanwhile, Robert Palmer arrives at Ali Gharbi, and when confronted by military concerns he's still so laid-back he might as well be travelling by hammock.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 14:23
|
|
|
Oh look, it's that part of the year. Didn't know much about my family's history with war, mostly because no one loving talks about the war in Germany (doubly so in East Germany). Have been doing a bit of research lately. Maternal Great-Grandpa was old enough to go to WWI. finished school in an emergency examination in 1916, was drafted straight away and sent to France. Unfortunately, I couldn't make out his final rank in the hand-written CV he provided. I think it ends on -meister, but it's not Rittmeister or Wachtmeister. Currently trying to find a different CV in his personal file. He went into the reserves after the war and ended up as Captain. Was called up in August 1939 and spent the war as a cartographer (because that was what he had been doing between the wars). Participated in the invasion of Poland and France (apparently the second time he went to France went a bit better). Ended the war in Prague, surrendering to the US Army, and was back home in East Germany by December 1945. Maternal Grandpa (son in law of the above) was apparently sent to Yugoslavia and spent the war there in an engineering unit. Claims he only ever built pontoon bridges, but I don't see how one can spent years in the Balkans during WWII and not participate in, witness or have knowledge of warcrimes. Was in Yugoslavian captivity until 1948 or so. I suspect reading his file will be a lot of fun. One Great-Uncle who also never talked about the war but kept a small book about the fighting in the Courland pocket, with every occurrence of 12th Panzerdivision marked. One Great Aunt who committed suicide with her husband and 16 year old daughter in May 1945. No one talks about them, either. Paternal Grandpa was thankfully too young to serve. Paternal Grandma lived in Hamburg until losing her home in 1943 courtesy of 8th Airforce. Maternal Grandma still lives in the house her father bought before he was called up, and has a lot of stories about how it feels to live an average one family house with 25 people.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 14:40
|
|
|
Chiming in with the family history stuff - My paternal grandfather was in the Royal Navy, working with signals. The most noteworthy thing in his war was in 1942, when he was serving aboard a cruiser called HMS Curacoa, accompaning the Queen Mary (then being used as a troopship) off the coast of Ireland. He was at his station when one of his mates came in and said something along the lines of "get your camera, you'll get an amazing shot of the Queen Mary" so he rushed out and saw the liner bearing down on them. The two ships had got their evasive zigzagging out of sync, with the result being that they collided and the Queen Mary, being the bigger ship, hit the Curacoa amidships and sheared straight through, with the two halves of the Curacoa sinking in minutes. Only 102 of the Curacoa's crew survived (luckily for me my grandfather was amongst them). He passed away in 1998 but there's archive footage of him being interviewed about the experience that I saw pop up on a Deep Wreck Mysteries episode a year or so ago, which was pretty surreal. I don't know too many specifics about the rest of his service aside from the fact that he served on the atlantic and arctic convoys, and was in the Pacific at the end of the war. I was going through some of his stuff at my parents' house and discovered that as well as a lot of photos he'd taken during his service (which I really need to scan), he'd also had quite a bit of correspondence about their respective wartime experiences with a German U-boat veteran. His father (my paternal great-grandfather) was in the Navy in WW1 and was present at Jutland on HMS Duke of Edinburgh (IIRC), but he died before I was born so I never heard any of his stories. My other grandfather was basically a nerd with bad feet and glasses who was in the pioneer corps for most of the war, until after D-Day when he got sent over to France due to the fact that he was an Oxford-educated fluent French speaker, but I don't think anything especially exciting happened to him there. His father (my great-grandfather) also died before I was born but my mum recalled him telling all sorts of stories about the first world war, most of which she'd presumed were BS - when we did some family tree research we discovered they were actually true - he was an "old contemptible" and fought in most of the major Western Front battles from Mons onward until he got invalided out after being wounded in the hand in 1918 (just before his regiment was sent to Italy). Post-war, we know he was involved in the Irish War of Independence on the British side, but we were't able to find any details of his service there. I'd imagine it's not anything to be proud of though, to say the least.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 15:28
|
|
|
No direct war stories, because my Maternal Grandfather was slightly too young to fight in WW2, so he rode motorbikes to deliver messages during air raids. He kept the bike after the war and gave it to my Dad. My Dad then had to sell it due to money troubles shortly after he married my Mum. On my Paternal side, my Grandfather was an MP during the Troubles, so I have a handful of second hand stories about that. And they go into more detail on the nastiness of it than anyone has here, so I don't know how far to go. And anyone who tells you that's over is lying, a house up the road from my Grandma's was firebombed about two years ago now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 15:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 18:07 |
|
|
Hazzard posted:On my Paternal side, my Grandfather was an MP during the Troubles, so I have a handful of second hand stories about that. And they go into more detail on the nastiness of it than anyone has here, so I don't know how far to go. And anyone who tells you that's over is lying, a house up the road from my Grandma's was firebombed about two years ago now. See, I'm guessing 'military police' rather than 'member of parliament' here going from context but I can never tell with Commonwealth folks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2016 16:17
|
|