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VDay posted:To whoever earlier was using this as their baseline for a WC, this run is pretty ridiculous. Like at some point he just casually drills into an unbroken Ming and takes Beijing by 1540. My WC run went so well that I had time to take religious and get the every province is your religion achievement too, and this dude beat me by like 50 years. What does he mean by "a blocking vassal"?
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Jan 3, 2016 23:20
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You release/create/conquer a vassal that physically cuts off your capital from your lands on another continent/region, and then any land you conquer in said continent is treated as distant overseas and so you get a massive coring discount on it. The downside is that you also get the overseas autonomy, which is why he doesn't do it for China. It's super common to do it when you start conquering Africa because it's fairly easy to cut off and it lets you core those pain in the rear end Northern provinces without having to spend 200-300 admin on each one.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:31
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About to blow a bunch of Steam money. Definitely going to get some EUIV DLC. I have AoW and WoN already, and I'm definitely getting Cossacks. Are any of the others safely skipped?
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Jan 3, 2016 23:37
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Get Common Sense instead of Cossacks. The diplomatic features sound great but unfortunately as far as I can tell, they don't actually change much of anything.
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Jan 4, 2016 00:29
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Larry Parrish posted:Get Common Sense instead of Cossacks. The diplomatic features sound great but unfortunately as far as I can tell, they don't actually change much of anything. Seemed like everyone in the thread was really talking up Cossacks though...
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Jan 4, 2016 00:54
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Get both. The diplo features could use another pass/rework, but the Horde stuff makes an already-fun group of nations to play as even better, and the estates are really powerful once you get a handle on how to keep them balanced. Most of the other DLC is skippable but you should look over the wiki and see what all the paid features on each one are and then see if they sound like something you'd like to try. Most improve or add gameplay elements to some part of the world, so they're safe to skip if you don't want to experiment with those any time soon. With that said they're pretty much all worth getting once they hit the sub-$3 or $4 range because the stuff they do add is pretty neat.
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Jan 4, 2016 00:58
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I would call Common Sense more vital and interesting than Cossacks.
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Jan 4, 2016 00:59
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Everyone keeps talking up how easy it is to manage estates and then forget about them for bonuses. Isn't the point of estates to give you internal peacetime politics?
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Jan 4, 2016 01:02
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People in this thread talk up estates because people have been masturbating in this thread about peacetime politics forever, and also how they also take Humanism and never culture convert provinces because they are roleplaying I guess. Estates are not fun to manage whatsoever although the bonuses are nice. Dhimmi estate is the worst so far.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:03
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VDay posted:Get both. The diplo features could use another pass/rework, but the Horde stuff makes an already-fun group of nations to play as even better, and the estates are really powerful once you get a handle on how to keep them balanced. Most of the other DLC is skippable but you should look over the wiki and see what all the paid features on each one are and then see if they sound like something you'd like to try. Most improve or add gameplay elements to some part of the world, so they're safe to skip if you don't want to experiment with those any time soon. With that said they're pretty much all worth getting once they hit the sub-$3 or $4 range because the stuff they do add is pretty neat. This is good advice. A lot of the features are targeted at specific areas, so Conquest of Paradise was for colonizers, Cossacks has stuff for Hordes and their neighbors, etc. I was talking up Cossacks in that it's good, but I have no idea if it's better than say Common Sense or Art of War; I don't remember what's specific to each DLC. Average Bear posted:Everyone keeps talking up how easy it is to manage estates and then forget about them for bonuses. Isn't the point of estates to give you internal peacetime politics? I thought it was too, which it definitely isn't. The disasters are based on influence, which you can't decrease much without tanking loyalty. But the bonuses you get from managing them are awesome. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 01:05
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Average Bear posted:Everyone keeps talking up how easy it is to manage estates and then forget about them for bonuses. Isn't the point of estates to give you internal peacetime politics? You mean like how you also thought that the point of estates was to slow down expansion when they actually help you out a ton? Larry Parrish posted:People in this thread talk up estates because people have been masturbating in this thread about peacetime politics forever, and also how they also take Humanism and never culture convert provinces because they are roleplaying I guess. I don't know what all this garbage is but yes the fact that you actually have to manage them is at least a legitimate complaint/criticism. Still, you just give them all just enough land to hit the minimum they need, and in return get a bunch of nation and province bonuses. On top of that if you actually want to use them effectively you can spend a little time balancing the influence and in turn getting stuff like revolt risk and missionary strength bonuses which are super useful. e: But yeah if you are picking just one then Common Sense is the must-have of the newer expansions.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:20
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That doesn't sound fun at all.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:05
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You seem like you've been on some weird quest to convince everyone how terrible estates are since Cossacks came out. It's fine if you don't like them but maybe at least explain to the guy asking for purchasing advice why so he can make up his mind instead of posting "they're bad" for the tenth time. Have you even played the expansion?
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Jan 4, 2016 02:50
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PittTheElder posted:I thought it was too, which it definitely isn't. The disasters are based on influence, which you can't decrease much without tanking loyalty. I think they do a pretty good job of making you balance the interests of various parties within your country. It's about as deep an internal politics mechanic as the game needs, I think; something nice to fiddle with when you're in downtime, but not too devastating if you can't devote your attention to it. It also has a lot of potential for the future/ mods if they do some stuff like have certain estates decoupled from land requirements etc.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:05
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Most of the estate events are baked into the existing random events, so it's really not tons more micro management than before. At the very least, the Clergy estate is incredibly useful for -2 RR and +2% Missionary Strength in conquered provinces. I'll agree the Dhimmi are a pain, juggling four estates is not fun. The diplomatic changes in Cossacks mostly end up being superficial in practice, I don't see how the diplomatic game plays out any differently than before.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:20
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I know RR refers to unrest but what does it actually stand for? This has been bothering me for ages.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:26
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Revolt Risk
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Jan 4, 2016 03:28
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It's slang for unrest, which was called Revolt Risk before.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:34
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VDay posted:You seem like you've been on some weird quest to convince everyone how terrible estates are since Cossacks came out. It's fine if you don't like them but maybe at least explain to the guy asking for purchasing advice why so he can make up his mind instead of posting "they're bad" for the tenth time. You're really reading a lot out of that one sentence lol. It's ok that you like to roleplay when you play EU4 and tedious micromanagement is cool to you but its not for a lot of other people.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:45
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the bear guy has been moaning about it for a month, that's not really an unwarranted response
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Jan 4, 2016 04:02
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Larry Parrish posted:You're really reading a lot out of that one sentence lol. It's ok that you like to roleplay when you play EU4 and tedious micromanagement is cool to you but its not for a lot of other people. He's been complaining about estates before the DLC was even released. Shut up.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:20
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Average Bear posted:Everyone keeps talking up how easy it is to manage estates and then forget about them for bonuses. Isn't the point of estates to give you internal peacetime politics? If you choose to just ignore the estates then their influence will never build up high enough to be dangerous, so in that case you're getting a small passive benefit for doing nothing. If you choose to engage with the estates then you can squeeze some really great benefits out of them. This gives people another peacetime activity with tangible rewards for successful estate management. You could see estates as "internal peacetime politics", I suppose, which means that the people who want that feature now have it. And the people who don't want to engage with estates aren't any worse off, they just don't get additional benefits. Larry Parrish posted:People in this thread talk up estates because people have been masturbating in this thread about peacetime politics forever, and also how they also take Humanism and never culture convert provinces because they are roleplaying I guess. Estates are not fun to manage whatsoever although the bonuses are nice. Dhimmi estate is the worst so far. I like playing the Influence management game in exchange for superior advisors, but it's cool if you don't enjoy it
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Jan 4, 2016 04:38
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Pellisworth posted:The diplomatic changes in Cossacks mostly end up being superficial in practice, I don't see how the diplomatic game plays out any differently than before. It feels like it's somewhat easier than before to get your allies into wars when you need them, since the cooldown until they are willing to join an offensive war was removed and you can just burn a lot of favors instead. Other than that not a ton of change. Things are a little more transparent but the AI doesn't behave noticeably differently.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:44
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Bold Robot posted:It feels like it's somewhat easier than before to get your allies into wars when you need them, since the cooldown until they are willing to join an offensive war was removed and you can just burn a lot of favors instead. Other than that not a ton of change. Things are a little more transparent but the AI doesn't behave noticeably differently. Yeah, that's pretty much my feelings. Earning Favors lets you call allies to offensive wars more often than the previous 10 year cooldown allowed, but the new Trust system and provinces of interest don't really seem to do much. A good example that's been brought up is how the AI will mark their entire rival's holdings as provinces of interest. Usually your most useful allies have a big mutual rival in common with you, so that tends to mess things up. I really can't overstate how awesome the Clergy estate is. Even if you decide to not give a poo poo about any of the other estates, they're an easy -2 RR and +2% MS in recently conquered provinces, which is exactly where you need those bonuses and you don't care about the 25% autonomy floor. Nobles and merchants are alright and you can get some cool stuff from them but it's not as tangible for me as the benefit from just always handing your fresh conquests to the Clergy. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 04:52
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Pellisworth posted:I'll agree the Dhimmi are a pain, juggling four estates is not fun. what part of free tech cost reduction and massively reduced different religion penalties is bad
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Jan 4, 2016 05:01
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Sperglord Firecock posted:what part of free tech cost reduction and massively reduced different religion penalties is bad No that part's good, what's difficult is managing them at a high enough Influence to get good tech and Heathen Tolerance bonuses. It's fine if you have +Heathen Tolerance in your NIs, but they suck if you don't since it would mean giving them a bunch of semi-tolerated off-religion provinces. Plus, four estates is getting to be too much for micro management for me, personally. Edit: basically, they compete in function with the Clergy. Do you want to convert this province, or do you have enough tolerance to give it to the Dhimmi? True, many/most Muslim tech nations get Heathen Tolerance but if you don't have that and maybe some Religious Unity baked into your NIs, Dhimmi are kinda lovely. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 05:06
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Also you still get reduced religious unity, which can be very painful if you have a disaster ticking up so long as it's under 100%
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Jan 4, 2016 05:08
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Sperglord Firecock posted:what part of free tech cost reduction and massively reduced different religion penalties is bad The part about Dhimmi that's bad is you can't convert provinces or have high Piety or the Dhimmi get insanely angry so it's easier just to exterminate the heathens who keep getting uppity about you converting Muslim provinces.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:16
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VDay posted:To whoever earlier was using this as their baseline for a WC, this run is pretty ridiculous. Like at some point he just casually drills into an unbroken Ming and takes Beijing by 1540. My WC run went so well that I had time to take religious and get the every province is your religion achievement too, and this dude beat me by like 50 years. When you did your WC were you able to make Crimea a vassal like he was? I've never been able to and have no idea why.
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Jan 4, 2016 08:10
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DeeEmTee posted:When you did your WC were you able to make Crimea a vassal like he was? I've never been able to and have no idea why. I was. They are right near the limit of 100WS to vassalize; if they gain anything from Genoa or Theodoro they'll be too big to vassalize, but you can definitely do it if they lose anything to the Golden Horde, which is what happened to me, leaving a 92WS vassalization if memory serves.
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Jan 4, 2016 08:13
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never mind
Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 08:46
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One feature I've found really loving annoying with this patch/DLC is that when the AI recalculates what provinces it considers of vital interest, and if they conflict too heavily with yours, they will just break off the alliance with you with no warning. If they decide they want a bunch of provinces you do and that they will break the alliance over it, the game should warn you and give you a month to reassign provinces so the alliance doesn't collapse. If you don't want it to collapse, of course.
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Jan 4, 2016 08:49
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Node posted:One feature I've found really loving annoying with this patch/DLC is that when the AI recalculates what provinces it considers of vital interest, and if they conflict too heavily with yours, they will just break off the alliance with you with no warning. If they decide they want a bunch of provinces you do and that they will break the alliance over it, the game should warn you and give you a month to reassign provinces so the alliance doesn't collapse. If you don't want it to collapse, of course. That's not a DLC feature, that's just the AI being completely mystifying in what it decides it wants to conquer, same as ever, except sometimes you can see what random region they decided they must have at all costs. My personal favorite is when a Militaristic AI ally of yours gets a random border claim from that event and then immediately rivals you.
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Jan 4, 2016 08:51
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The diplomatic changes are mostly a hindrance to the player rather than a help. Nothing has changed in the way the AI handles diplomacy. It doesn't make it any easier to get your allies to help you, instead it adds an extra hoop you have to jump through for it. I guess if you earn a bunch of favors you can increase your ally's trust, but I've had allies with 100 trust break the alliance and rival me with no warning.
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Jan 4, 2016 08:59
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Yeah I have to agree on that, the diplomacy changes from Cossacks sound nice in theory but the AI is being proper dumb about them. Commonwealth breaking our 200 year alliance because they suddenly desire Crete after conquering a couple mainland provinces in Greece. If you don't want to play a horde nation, which are super fun, don't get Cossacks. The Diplomacy system needs an other patch to fix and the estates are just meh. Some people really seem to enjoy them, I don't like them because they get in the way and are super annoying when you start as a small nation. Yes Nobles I'll give you this Ivory producing province so you can gently caress over the income of my 4 province nation. I hope they'll remove estates from more government forms or allow us to flat out disable them soon.
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Jan 4, 2016 10:06
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Larry Parrish posted:That's not a DLC feature, that's just the AI being completely mystifying in what it decides it wants to conquer, same as ever, except sometimes you can see what random region they decided they must have at all costs. My personal favorite is when a Militaristic AI ally of yours gets a random border claim from that event and then immediately rivals you. I'm just asking for a popup saying "Hey yo, this ally of yours is going to break the alliance because he really wants some of the provinces you want. Maybe you should change some poo poo up, dawg." or something to that effect.
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Jan 4, 2016 10:08
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Fister Roboto posted:The diplomatic changes are mostly a hindrance to the player rather than a help. Nothing has changed in the way the AI handles diplomacy. It doesn't make it any easier to get your allies to help you, instead it adds an extra hoop you have to jump through for it. I guess if you earn a bunch of favors you can increase your ally's trust, but I've had allies with 100 trust break the alliance and rival me with no warning. This has been my opinion as well; the Favors system basically just slows me way down at the start of an alliance (when I have no favors).
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Jan 4, 2016 11:02
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Larry Parrish posted:You're really reading a lot out of that one sentence lol. It's ok that you like to roleplay when you play EU4 and tedious micromanagement is cool to you but its not for a lot of other people. If by "roleplaying" you mean picking arbitrary goals like achievement runs or things like Jewish Ethiopia, I can't imagine how you can have fun just min/maxing every game into a WC. But again, treating the game as world conquest simulator is also not for a lot of other people.
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Jan 4, 2016 11:34
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Ouch. Found out today that the game will just automatically accept peace deals if it thinks you're losing bad enough. I get why that is, but it was a huge bummer to finally turn the tide on this big war and start sieging down my attacker when all of a sudden the game just goes "Naw, you lose." I'm a little salty.
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Jan 4, 2016 12:30
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I keep posting about how bad the expansion is because it sounds like half a dozen half baked ideas released with a $20 price tag. New diplomacy is straight up not functional, estates are tacked on, and the good features like threaten war are expansion only. I don't want EU4 to go down the bloated road of CK2 is all.
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Jan 4, 2016 13:50
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