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Frog Act posted:So should I just write off the repeater gun as a weapon type altogether? I got a green one for my witch hunter and it seems like absolute garbage except for unloading all of it onto the rogre I'm not a fan, but I have a buddy that swears by his orange witch hunter repeater. The wind up attack one hit kills stormvermin anywhere on their body, and with piercing he sometimes gets two or three with one shot. Eats up all the ammo, however. And it's not like most lineups are lacking in anti-stormvermin weapons. I personally prefer the brace of pistols.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:51
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The_Angry_Turtle posted:Get good and toss one bomb then snap off 3 or 4 headshots without even slowing down. Or just go full God Mode and get an orange harquebuss for Kruber. Or just walk straight under them. You get nothing for killing them and potentially lose the whole map by engaging. Why bother when it is so painfully easy to bypass them?
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Jan 3, 2016 20:54
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Because they're fun to kill.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:02
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If you're good at it, there are plenty of times where killing the patrol means you can finish a level faster. The only reason to hide while a patrol passes is if you're not confident you can kill them safely (or if you need to conserve bombs for the ogre).
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Jan 3, 2016 21:20
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Sokani posted:I'm not a fan, but I have a buddy that swears by his orange witch hunter repeater. The wind up attack one hit kills stormvermin anywhere on their body, and with piercing he sometimes gets two or three with one shot. Eats up all the ammo, however. And it's not like most lineups are lacking in anti-stormvermin weapons. I personally prefer the brace of pistols. I'm a fan of the pistols and the crossbow. Crossbow can be similarly quick at killing stormvermin and has punch through baked in, which also makes it great for firing into lines.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:35
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Avenging Dentist posted:If you're good at it, there are plenty of times where killing the patrol means you can finish a level faster. The only reason to hide while a patrol passes is if you're not confident you can kill them safely (or if you need to conserve bombs for the ogre). Again, the whole situation we are talking about here is NOT doing some stupid "hide in pig pen" plan, but you run under the bridge they walk over, which is the optimal route. Even taking 1 second to headshot them all is still slower than just running under the bridge. If you want to kill them because it's fun, fine, but don't argue it is somehow faster or better.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:54
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Avenging Dentist posted:If you're good at it, there are plenty of times where killing the patrol means you can finish a level faster. The only reason to hide while a patrol passes is if you're not confident you can kill them safely (or if you need to conserve bombs for the ogre). Sure but we're talking about the early footbridge in Horn of Magnus. The point is that hiding is terrible, fighting is marginally better, and just having your poo poo together enough to slink under the bridge and go about your day is the fastest and least taxing on resources.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:57
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I'm providing a more general guideline that I use for when to fight the patrols. I see a lot of people who hide from them in general when it's just a waste of time. It should be obvious that if you can just walk by them without pausing, you should do it. (And if your group starts trying to hide in a case like that, then just take charge and tell them what to do.)
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Jan 3, 2016 23:15
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Killing a patrol usually takes a lot of resources and can completely endanger the team, especially if you have two grimoires on nightmare where they can down a player in one hit. I think the extra caution to make sure you don't have to kill them is worth it. Killing hordes is trivial if you have a good choke point and can usually be done without anyone taking a hit as long as people didn't bring bad weapons, so if you're hiding in a good spot then dealing with an extra horde because you waited for a patrol to pass is more than worth it. Or the game can just spawn the patrol out of thin air and already aggroed on you, a gunner, two assassins and two packmasters all at once like it did last night. What the gently caress, game.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:22
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Did they patch it so it spawns specials more often? I went from never seeing more than one or two of any sort at a time to frequently finding ratling gunners in pairs. too bad those nazi fuckers can't cope with my elven maiden's bow of killing rats +2
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Jan 3, 2016 23:26
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Gestalt Intellect posted:Or the game can just spawn the patrol out of thin air and already aggroed on you, a gunner, two assassins and two packmasters all at once like it did last night. What the gently caress, game. Got roger, three gunners, a globadier and a packmaster on well defence all at once. Fastest wipe I ever saw! Occasionally the AI director will just go "no you know what, no, gently caress you guys!" and welp v  v
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Jan 4, 2016 00:20
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Martout posted:Got roger, three gunners, a globadier and a packmaster on well defence all at once. Fastest wipe I ever saw! to be fair to the AI director, the well defence mission will spawn roger 100% of the time between the third and fourth well sequences
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Jan 4, 2016 00:27
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If you bleed down to 1 HP and start healing with your weapon you'll gain permanent HP. From what I've seen, neither bloodlust or regrowth gives you permanent HP while you're bleeding - you just get extra bleed HP
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Jan 4, 2016 00:31
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terrorist ambulance posted:If you bleed down to 1 HP and start healing with your weapon you'll gain permanent HP. From what I've seen, neither bloodlust or regrowth gives you permanent HP while you're bleeding - you just get extra bleed HP Correct. However, it doesn't reset your "downed" counter, so finding real heals should still be a priority for you.
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Jan 4, 2016 00:59
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Goons are much better at this game than pubbies.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:56
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Nanomashoes posted:Goons are much better at this game than pubbies. Makes me wish the group was actually helpful in finding them.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:52
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Martout posted:Got roger, three gunners, a globadier and a packmaster on well defence all at once. Fastest wipe I ever saw! Just did a rampants run with some sub 30s. We wiped at the first chain when some black rats came in and wrecked two players during the horde phase. I thought someone aggroed the other chain so I concentrate fire and killed one The other pub isnt covering me so I'm downed then an assassin killed off the last of us. We repeat the level and the same thing happened but I stood back to watch for the elites. Killed them easily and the rest was a smooth run. That's some RNG for twice in a row at the same event.
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Jan 4, 2016 08:04
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I haven't been able to do White Rat on normal yet. The pubs just like staying put and fighting hordes and hordes of enemies instead of trying to reach the objective. Don't even get me started on the barrels. I think I've only managed to complete that objective once and I had to carry every drat thing myself.
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Jan 4, 2016 09:35
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Try on a harder difficulty? I wouldn't expect anyone on Normal to be able to finish anything much more complex than Horn of Magnus. Players on harder difficulties are usually a little more on the ball.
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Jan 4, 2016 09:36
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Hugoon Chavez posted:I haven't been able to do White Rat on normal yet. The pubs just like staying put and fighting hordes and hordes of enemies instead of trying to reach the objective. I don't understand. I have the opposite problem. Rather than kill off the rats that are coming from behind and threatening the team, my pubbies just keep blindly running forward and dying (because of the rats tthat hey're too loving stupid to slow down and kill).
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Jan 4, 2016 16:27
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Sometimes a bad goes too fast... and sometimes a bad goes too slow... The common thread is... they are bad.
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Jan 4, 2016 16:38
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I liked it on the White Rat where my pubbies kept trying to carry barrels while being attacked by rats, instead of doing what's intended which is putting the loving thing down, killing rats, and then picking it back up
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Jan 4, 2016 16:54
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Even that's probably not a great idea, since if a rat hits you while you have the barrel, it lights the fuse.
Avenging Dentist fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 16:56
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Avenging Dentist posted:Even that's probably not a great idea, since if a rat hits you while you have the barrel, it lights the fuse. No that's what I mean. Instead of carrying the barrel, seeing the rats, putting the barrel down, and then stabbing said rats, they would run right past a big group and get stabbed, igniting the barrel causing us to get get another one.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:12
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My group found a good way to handle the barrel section on White Rat, although it's slightly RNG dependent. If the game is kind enough to give you a speed potion in the supply room just below the stairs to the barrel section you're golden. Rats don't start spawning in the barrel area until the first player ascends those stairs, so make sure the team is ready and all go up the stairs together. Whoever has the speed potion should chug it, grab the first barrel, and go throw it to where the third barrel is, up in that slightly elevated side hallway on the opposite side from the stairs where you enter the area. If he has a speed potion and nobody ran ahead and started the rats spawning before he got up the stairs, this should be easily accomplished before any rats get in the way. Meanwhile the rest of the team goes to the second barrel and carries it to the same place. This is manageable without a speed potion because they don't have to carry it as far, although they will probably run into the beginning of the rat spawns before they make it, which is why you have two other team members defending the barrel carrier. For goodness' sake don't waste time looking around for items. So now you have all three barrels piled up right next to each other in the spot where the third barrel spawns. At this point the team should hole up in the corner of this hallway, furthest away from where the objective is. This corner is ideal because there are no holes in the wall that the rats can spawn from, so all the rats will be coming from just two directions, and if you're playing White Rat, it should be trivial for you to outlast a horde when the whole team is together in such a defensible position. The biggest danger is the players facing the direction where the barrels are stored have to be careful not to get too enthusiastic and push too far forward where they might accidentally hit a barrel. Let the rats come to you. Once the horde is depleted, the team can grab all three barrels and take them all to the objective at once, with the final team member spotting for rats. If you get unlucky and don't get that first speed potion, your fallback option is to just carry the first barrel to where the second barrel spawns, leave it, go defend from the horde in the defensible hallway bend described above, and then go grab the barrels after the first horde, and take them to where the third barrel spawns. At this point you're in the same position described above. You'll probably have to outlast a second horde before it's safe to move the barrels again, but this way the entire team stays together so you're at minimum danger from assassins and packmasters. I hope this is clear, it's a little difficult to describe, but my group beat White Rat on Nightmare using this strategy. Spec your team with Roger killers like the beam staff, brace of pistols, hagbane, and repeater handgun, and fight Roger down on the platform below the chain anchors, not up on the anchor level, or you're just gonna get swarmed and knocked off a cliff.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:25
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I've just started playing this on normal with some friends. Are higher difficulties do-able without good equipment or should we not bother? Also you guys mention to avoid patrols? Does that mean fighting random rats in open areas cause hordes to spawn? They seem kind of hard to avoid considering they're just standing in the way most of the time.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:39
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Avoiding patrols means avoiding the big patrols of Stormvermin that show up sometimes. They're one of the only foes you can go around in the game and fighting them is pretty dangerous. You can recognize them coming by the beautiful song of their people.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:44
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Equipment isn't a massive crutch that I've seen so far. Beating hard is more about being coordinated and a bow that heals for a tiny amount won't save you from idiocy.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:44
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Equipment basically makes things a little easier and is fun to acquire and complain about, while the core skills of the game will get you further. I was still using a white rapier on Nightmare for quite some time just because I couldn't get a rapier to drop to save my life, and I still did fine. The orange one I have now makes it noticeably easier, but if I didn't know how to use the weapon I'd still be hosed.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:52
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Night10194 posted:Equipment basically makes things a little easier and is fun to acquire and complain about, while the core skills of the game will get you further. I was still using a white rapier on Nightmare for quite some time just because I couldn't get a rapier to drop to save my life, and I still did fine. The orange one I have now makes it noticeably easier, but if I didn't know how to use the weapon I'd still be hosed. Master crafted on the slow reload ranged weapons is huge, and every once in a while a damage breakpoint happens, but generally it's not too big a deal, and it mainly makes a difference when things are really close and you're doing things right.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:46
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when i get unbelievaably stoned tonight, I want to play this game with goons who are not super expert at this gme but also aren't big dumb babbys. Please, play with me!!!!!!
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Jan 4, 2016 20:29
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DarkAvenger211 posted:I've just started playing this on normal with some friends. Are higher difficulties do-able without good equipment or should we not bother? You can do hard with whites. Nightmare is a huge difficulty jump and you will have a hard time without blues (I have seen players with less do fine but their teammates had oranges and did most of the killing for them). If you can win nightmare it won't take long before the difficulty has replaced your bad gear though. Cataclysm is going to be even more unfun than it already is if you bring in anything less than oranges.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:49
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Gestalt Intellect posted:You can do hard with whites. Nightmare is a huge difficulty jump and you will have a hard time without blues (I have seen players with less do fine but their teammates had oranges and did most of the killing for them). If you can win nightmare it won't take long before the difficulty has replaced your bad gear though. Cataclysm is going to be even more unfun than it already is if you bring in anything less than oranges. You're not playing the game on the true difficulty the developers intended if you aren't using all whites on Cataclysm 
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Jan 4, 2016 23:11
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So, how do you play Kruber with the coach gun and hammer he starts out with? I've been charging up my swings when there's more than one rat to hit, any single rat gets a single click to kill them, rat ogres and storm vermin get lots of single clicks. The coach gun I use when chasing special rats as I close on them. Is there much else to know? What gear's worth looking out for?
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Jan 4, 2016 23:45
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Gort posted:So, how do you play Kruber with the coach gun and hammer he starts out with? I've been charging up my swings when there's more than one rat to hit, any single rat gets a single click to kill them, rat ogres and storm vermin get lots of single clicks. The coach gun I use when chasing special rats as I close on them. You have the right idea for the hammer, just replace the blunderbuss with any other ranged weapon once you get one. I'd say it's the second worst ranged weapon in the game. Luckily kruber gets the handgun which is one of the best ranged weapons. Note that charging an attack for the minimum length of time does exactly as much damage as charging it until the game makes you release it, so there's no need to hold your charge attacks with the hammer except to time swings. Because of the long delay before you can normal attack a second time with the hammer, if you just attacked and a rat is still in front of you then you need to block. I dodge and block with the hammer more than most other weapons because it really makes you commit to your swings.
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Jan 4, 2016 23:51
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Gort posted:So, how do you play Kruber with the coach gun and hammer he starts out with? I've been charging up my swings when there's more than one rat to hit, any single rat gets a single click to kill them, rat ogres and storm vermin get lots of single clicks. The coach gun I use when chasing special rats as I close on them. Swap out your ranged weapon for literally any other one you get.
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Jan 5, 2016 00:05
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Goddamn Packmasters. Smokers are okay in L4D because they don't move, and Jockeys are okay because you can kinda steer. 
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Jan 5, 2016 00:11
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Packmasters are cool because you can kill hundreds with no problem and then one will decide to be a hero and completely destroy your run in a way no other rat could.
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Jan 5, 2016 00:29
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Nanomashoes posted:Packmasters are cool because you can kill hundreds with no problem and then one will decide to be a hero and completely destroy your run in a way no other rat could. By taking advantage of the natural human desire to help out idiots who deserve what they get?
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Jan 5, 2016 00:50
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Bogart posted:Goddamn Packmasters. Smokers are okay in L4D because they don't move, and Jockeys are okay because you can kinda steer. Also they move players way faster than those enemies can, you can free players from jockeys or smokers by slapping them, and jockeys sit in a position where you can hit them over the horde. These are Good Design Things that are all absent from hook rats. Hook rats can also grab people through swarms of other rats while your own teammates stop your bullets. It is not just balanced in a game where penetrating ranged attacks are as limited as they are. They're also the least distinct special from ordinary rats and have an almost inaudible sound cue in a horde (while every other special is very noticeable even in a horde). When a hook rat ends your run because it unavoidably pulled the shield guy through a massive horde for a chain reaction of losses, it just feels like bullshit, unlike when a lone gas rat becomes a hero and lands a bomb right in the middle of your whole crew. This is because gas rats are honorable and noble.
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Jan 5, 2016 00:59
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