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Lieutenant Centaur posted:Someone post the mono black eldrazi list. I'm phone posting This is what the dude at SCG was running 4 Wasteland Strangler 4 Blight Herder 2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger 4 Oblivion Sower 3 Dismember 1 Go for the Throat 4 Eldrazi Temple 4 Inquisition of Kozilek 1 Bojuka Bog 4 Eye of Ugin 3 Expedition Map 4 Relic of Progenitus 2 Slaughter Pact 4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 4 Ghost Quarter 3 Scrabbling Claws 7 Swamp 2 Mind Stone Sideboard 2 Drown in Sorrow 1 Memoricide 2 Ratchet Bomb 1 Cranial Extraction 2 Night of Souls' Betrayal 4 Sun Droplet 3 Duress
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Jan 5, 2016 21:07
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:Someone post the mono black eldrazi list. I'm phone posting You don't want the mono black version. It's garbage. White brings a lot to the table in Path, RIP, and some tricks in the board. Plus the one that was run this weekend is extra garbage, you don't want 4 Eye of Ugin and 4 Urborg. 2 of each of those is much better. You also don't want quite as many exiling artifacts as he was running, 5 of Relic/Claws is plenty.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:09
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jassi007 posted:This is what the dude at SCG was running Mind Stone looks a little random
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Jan 5, 2016 21:10
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Frozen_flame posted:I caved and preordered 4 on magiccardmarket for €27 with shipping back when she was pre-spoiled. Last time I did this was when I saw Khans Sorin at about the same price for preorders.  Welcome to the club chandra speculating buddy  Going to play her in a mardu deck with goblin dark dwellers, monastery mentor, SFGM and a hell of a lot of removal spells.Also specced on Kalitas because the meta in our LGS has so many aristocrats decks. Thinking of mainboard that wrath too, but the combo between radiant flames and SFGM is really good.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:13
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Rinkles posted:Mind Stone looks a little random The core of this deck is powerful. The rest of it is so up in the air I don't any list is close to optimal. Well maybe the BW list? I think it is the best right now because A. lingering souls can just dominate some decks, and B. Its primary removal spell also generates an exiled card to process. All the other colors need more exile effects or to have less removal.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:16
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Chandra could be more than 10 bucks but there is no way Kalitas is.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:16
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Infect is consistent, and can get t2 kills some amount of the time, but infect can be interacted with in tons of ways: 1)Countermagic 2)Burn 3)Dismember 4)Land D 5) Spellskite 6) bounce 7) discard 8)Abrupt Decay Whereas Amulet can only REALLY be interacted with via: 1)Countermagic 2)Land D 3)Discard 4)Abrupt Decay (Neither list is completely exhaustive, but the point stands) This leaves entire classes of decks unable to do anything against amulet should the deck get a combo. Almost every deck in modern has some means to interact with Infect, and at their very worst can just run spellskite. Amulet to consistently kills turn 3 or before and to few decks have a meaningful way to interact. For that reason, if nothing else I fully expect it to get hit with the banhammer in some fashion. I hope Amulet itself eats the ban.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:18
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Madmarker posted:Infect is consistent, and can get t2 kills some amount of the time, but infect can be interacted with in tons of ways: It also matters how often it can kill on t2 or 3. If it is say 2-5% of the time, WOTC might deem that fine. if it is 10-20% of the time, that might be to good. It doesn't have to be a majority of kills before t4 or almost never before t4, it just has to cross some threshold that they deem to much. To much might be more than 5% of games. Not that I have tons of faith that WOTC makes these decisions in a data driven way that people seem to think they do either. I suspect that general sentiment is going to do more than hard facts to getting it banned. The sentiment is against the deck, I suspect that good players stating it probably is getting banned is the more relevant reason it will get banned. I feel that modern PT's are really bad for the format, the pro's can almost say "change this or we'll make this embarassing for you." It would be loving embarrassing as hell for WOTC if they don't ban Summer Bloom and it shows up everywhere at the PT doing t2 and 3 kills.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:23
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Count Bleck posted:You could be saving for those $110 Scalding Tarns! I can borrow those whenever I need them
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Jan 5, 2016 21:26
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mcmagic posted:Chandra could be more than 10 bucks but there is no way Kalitas is. Kalitas is being targeted as the 4 drop in Modern Jund over Huntmaster.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:27
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Angry Grimace posted:Kalitas is being targeted as the 4 drop in Modern Jund over Huntmaster. No chance.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:29
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Kalitas is easily good enough for standard post siege-rhino. 3/4 lifelink is not a bad body and his ability simultaneously hoses sacrifice/graveyard decks while giving you free value from your removal.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:31
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Angry Grimace posted:Kalitas is being targeted as the 4 drop in Modern Jund over Huntmaster. Aren't Chandra's parents also vying for that spot, or is that only grixis?
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Jan 5, 2016 21:31
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mcmagic posted:No chance. Pretty sure you're wrong about this. It will see play in Jund and some Grixis builds. Rinkles posted:Aren't Chandra's parents also vying for that spot, or is that only grixis? People have been trying them also. I think Kalitas/Oliva is going to be potent for Jund.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:32
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mcmagic posted:No chance. Lots and lots of people in many places have been talking about this for like a month, but mcmagic took 10 seconds to think about it and pronounced it junk. Throw 'em all in the trash boys!
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Jan 5, 2016 21:32
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Angry Grimace posted:Kalitas is being targeted as the 4 drop in Modern Jund over Huntmaster. Hahahahahahahahahahaha Yeah no. Angry Grimace posted:Lots and lots of people in many places have been talking about this for like a month, but mcmagic took 10 seconds to think about it and pronounced it junk. Throw 'em all in the trash boys! Its not junk, but the 4 mana slot already has a lot of competition for jund in modern. I don't see what matchups this card makes better over the already plentiful choices.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:33
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jassi007 posted:Pretty sure you're wrong about this. It will see play in Jund and some Grixis builds. I'm 100% sure that you're wrong about Jund (and 95% sure you're wrong about Grixis since that deck doesn't have access to Huntmaster but it does have Pia and Kerrin and Olivia Voldaren which both are much better than this card) Comparing this card to Huntmaster is a joke. Huntmaster comes down on a empty board and just wins the game and is awesome vs Burn. this guy comes down, dies to path and you lose.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:36
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mcmagic posted:I'm 100% sure that you're wrong about Jund (and 95% sure you're wrong about Grixis since that deck doesn't have access to Huntmaster but it does have Pia and Kerrin and Olivia Voldaren.) Comparing this card to Huntmaster is a joke. Huntmaster comes down on a empty board and just wins the game and is awesome vs Burn. this guy comes down, dies to path and you lose. mcmagic is 100% sure about something he heard about 90 seconds ago in other news water is wet
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Jan 5, 2016 21:37
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mcmagic posted:I'm 100% sure that you're wrong about Jund (and 95% sure you're wrong about Grixis since that deck doesn't have access to Huntmaster but it does have Pia and Kerrin and Olivia Voldaren which both are much better than this card) Comparing this card to Huntmaster is a joke. Huntmaster comes down on a empty board and just wins the game and is awesome vs Burn. this guy comes down, dies to path and you lose. I like how you tell us how awesome Huntmaster is against burn then talk about how Kalitas dies to removal that burn doesn't even run. Apples to Apples comparison right? If burn attacks, then bolts Kalitas after I block I am really happy getting a burn spell, a creature, and 3 life for 4 mana. I'd play that spell sideboard vs. burn ALL the time.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:38
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jassi007 posted:I like how you tell us how awesome Huntmaster is against burn then talk about how Kalitas dies to removal that burn doesn't even run. Apples to Apples comparison right? Huntmaster gains life whether they kill it or not. And tbf Burn often does have sideboard Paths.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:40
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jassi007 posted:I like how you tell us how awesome Huntmaster is against burn then talk about how Kalitas dies to removal that burn doesn't even run. Apples to Apples comparison right? Modern burn does run Path. suicidesteve posted:Huntmaster gains life whether they kill it or not. And tbf Burn often does have sideboard Paths. You gain life AND get a guy who blocks all their creatures. It really is hilarious to make that comparison. The idea that a 4/3 for 4 without any ETB ability is playable in Modern is hilarious in itself. mcmagic fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Jan 5, 2016 21:40
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jassi007 posted:Pretty sure you're wrong about this. It will see play in Jund and some Grixis builds. I just noticed that interaction and that is pretty excellent.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:45
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mcmagic posted:Modern burn does run Path. The card which you have already reached a 100% conclusion on and you know everything about is in fact a 3/4 which is a very large difference
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Jan 5, 2016 21:46
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Burn wants to be able to answer early creatures with butts or abilities that make them proof against red removal, like Tasigur/Angler/Goyf/Firewalker/Wurmcoil, so path is a common inclusion it'll often get you 4+ damage in the right matchup
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Jan 5, 2016 21:46
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jassi007 posted:
This is also terrible. If you have an Olivia and it sticks on the field you've won the game. There is no reason for another dumb 4 drop to combo with it to win more. Angry Grimace posted:The card which you have already reached a 100% conclusion on and you know everything about is in fact a 3/4 which is a very large difference Yes I'm 100% sure about this card not being better than Huntmaster despite my typo. I'm also sure that gravity will keep me on the ground as i walk to my car later in the day.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:47
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Do you really want people to go back to previous spoiler seasons and post all the things you were certain about then? Because you seem to get really upset when people do that. What I'm saying is that it's dumb to make such strong conclusions. Or else you get stuck saying things like "Narset will be worth more than Ugin in the long run"
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Jan 5, 2016 21:53
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mcmagic posted:This is also terrible. If you have an Olivia and it sticks on the field you've won the game. There is no reason for another dumb 4 drop to combo with it to win more. This is one of those situations where you'd get the benefit of the doubt if there wasn't such an illustrious and glorious history of you being wrong as gently caress and then doubling down c.f. Narset Transcendent c.f. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy This is why everyone thinks you're a dipshit: because you make "100% sure" pronouncements about all sorts of poo poo you don't have a frame of reference for beyond being vaguely acquainted with what's in various decks.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:54
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Angry Grimace posted:This is one of those situations where you'd get the benefit of the doubt if there wasn't such an illustrious and glorious history of you being wrong as gently caress and then doubling down You're calling me a dipshit but you clearly didn't know the format, right? Maybe you should learn more about the format before you go around insulting people. I know the format and I've had some success playing it. Have you? A lot of people were wrong about Jace in here and in the community and I've said multiple times that I was I wrong about that card. In fact I was playing with that card in modern before it was even widely played in that format. Narset wasn't as good as I thought it would be but it's played all the time in Standard. All that being said, the Huntmaster comparison is just really really dumb and that is something i won't be wrong about. Who else is saying that BTW?
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Jan 5, 2016 21:59
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Angry Grimace posted:This is one of those situations where you'd get the benefit of the doubt if there wasn't such an illustrious and glorious history of you being wrong as gently caress and then doubling down There really isn't much point in stating this, everyone here knows it. Honestly mcmagic disagreeing with you about a card is the best indicator you are probably correct. 
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Jan 5, 2016 21:59
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jassi007 posted:There really isn't much point in stating this, everyone here knows it. Honestly mcmagic disagreeing with you about a card is the best indicator you are probably correct. Care to make a bet on this card being played over Huntmaster in Jund?
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Jan 5, 2016 22:01
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For what it's worth I can't see a reason you'd ever play a 3/4 for 4 in modern Jund when you have Huntmaster, Olivia, and the helicopter parents. The entire point of the deck is to get into a topdeck war and win with better card quality. This is essentially a vanilla creature in topdeck mode, and not even one that ends the game in a few turns like Goyd. tl;dr: I agree with mcmagic. Edit: And I was right about Jace being good so you can trust me.
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Jan 5, 2016 22:03
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mcmagic posted:You're calling me a dipshit but you clearly didn't know the format, right? Maybe you should learn more about the format before you go around insulting people. I know the format and I've had some success playing it. Have you? A lot of people were wrong about Jace in here and in the community and I've said multiple times that I was I wrong about that card. In fact I was playing with that card in modern before it was even widely played in that format. Narset wasn't as good as I thought it would be but it's played all the time in Standard. I play Modern all the time, in fact I used to actually play Jund. You just assumed that I don't know the format because you consistently make broad assumptions about everything to reach "I am 100% sure" conclusions which constantly turn out to be wrong. This combined with your inability to form a coherent argument without being abrasive as gently caress is why people think you're a jackass. No, I don't know that Kalitas is going to be better than Huntmaster or Olivia Voldaren, there's just a lot of people talking about it, which is enough reason to take notice of the card and think about its applications. Could they be wrong? Sure, but it doesn't make them "really really dumb" for trying it any more than it made people "really really dumb" for trying Pia and Kiran Nalaar in Jund either. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Jan 5, 2016 22:08
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mcmagic posted:Care to make a bet on this card being played over Huntmaster in Jund? I would if you can think of some reasonable terms. You know as well as I do that some people will and some people won't. The 4 drop spot is a flex spot in Jund. I'll back that statement with some decks to forestall your inevitable disagreement. 12th place at SCG Invi. No huntmaster, Oliva, or P&K, Baloths http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/354023#online Recent MOCS, P&K, Huntmaster, no Oliva. http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/354183#online GP Pittsburgh 22nd place No hunmaster, Baloths http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/344942#online GP Pitt 24th place No huntmaster http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/344944#online How would you care to measure the success of Kalitas in Jund, given that obviously some people will still play Huntmaster? At no point did I blanket state it will replace all Huntmasters forever, nor will I. I said I'm pretty sure it will replace huntmaster, and see play in Jund and some Grixis lists. I'll bet i'm right and it will replace Huntmaster in some lists and be in a Jund list that makes top 32 or better of an event over 500 players in the next 12 months after it is legal.
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Jan 5, 2016 22:09
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I too think an unproven card is going to beat out established game winners in a super competitive format for basically no reason.
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Jan 5, 2016 22:10
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jassi007 posted:I would if you can think of some reasonable terms. You know as well as I do that some people will and some people won't. The 4 drop spot is a flex spot in Jund. Nice job moving the goalposts there with 1 top 32 deck over a year haha. Guess you aren't very confident. Angry Grimace posted:
Did I say that?
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Jan 5, 2016 22:11
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suicidesteve posted:For what it's worth I can't see a reason you'd ever play a 3/4 for 4 in modern Jund when you have Huntmaster, Olivia, and the helicopter parents. The entire point of the deck is to get into a topdeck war and win with better card quality. This is essentially a vanilla creature in topdeck mode, and not even one that ends the game in a few turns like Goyd. Arguments for it. It isn't just about the lifelink. 1. All your removal makes bodies. This is something Jund is intersted in. It is BB casting cost, which jund is build around getting RGBB available by t3 for Liliana. Huntmaster isn't harder to cast per say, but double black is better than other color requirements for Jund. You can sac your own Olivia at instant speed, or one of your zombie tokens, to make it a 5/6. Not irrelevant. Being a 3/4 lifelinker certainly doesn't hurt either, but it isn't better than Huntmaster for that reason alone. Jund will love turning all its removal into 2 for 1's. I could see Kalitas and Huntmaster with no Oliva, you essentially play Kalitas as a 5 or 6 drop to go kalitas and then remove something to get value out of it, even if they can kill it.
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Jan 5, 2016 22:14
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mcmagic posted:Nice job moving the goalposts there with 1 top 32 deck over a year haha. Guess you aren't very confident. I'm not as silly as you to make absolute statements about cards. You know I'm right that the 4cmc slot is a flex spot and while it is good enough to see play in Jund in no way is it the next Goyf that is a 4 of autoinclude. Some people may play it over Huntmaster. They may also play it instead of Olivia, or instead of P&K. Jund has a lot of good options at the 4cmc flex spot, and this is one of them. Also I take it you aren't interested in that bet because you know I'm correct?
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Jan 5, 2016 22:16
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jassi007 posted:Arguments for it. It isn't just about the lifelink. 1. All your removal makes bodies. This is something Jund is intersted in. It is BB casting cost, which jund is build around getting RGBB available by t3 for Liliana. Huntmaster isn't harder to cast per say, but double black is better than other color requirements for Jund. You can sac your own Olivia at instant speed, or one of your zombie tokens, to make it a 5/6. Not irrelevant. Being a 3/4 lifelinker certainly doesn't hurt either, but it isn't better than Huntmaster for that reason alone. Jund will love turning all its removal into 2 for 1's. I could see Kalitas and Huntmaster with no Oliva, you essentially play Kalitas as a 5 or 6 drop to go kalitas and then remove something to get value out of it, even if they can kill it. Oh so you're gonna play a 4 drop with no ETB ability as a 5 or 6 drop in Modern and then hope your opponent does nothing while it sits there for another turn so that you can sac something to it for 2 counters. Good luck with that.
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Jan 5, 2016 22:18
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jassi007 posted:There really isn't much point in stating this, everyone here knows it. Honestly mcmagic disagreeing with you about a card is the best indicator you are probably correct. Reminder that mcmagic just won a bet with legacy grandmaster black potus and also that you're pants on head retarded if you think the 3/4 with no immediate value and no immediate game win on untap is going to do anything
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Jan 5, 2016 22:19
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mcmagic posted:Oh so you're gonna play a 4 drop with no ETB ability as a 5 or 6 drop in Modern and then hope your opponent does nothing while it sits there for another turn so that you can sac something to it for 2 counters. Good luck with that. Nope I'm going to play it as a 5 or 6 drop, kill a creature with bolt/terminate/decay, get a token. You know Olivia doesn't have an ETB effect, she just shoots things and adds counters and she is a very good card right?
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Jan 5, 2016 22:20
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