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InfiniteZero posted:I understand that you're looking for a "reading" but the Ockham's Razor explanation was that it was a bookmark for the audience to the start of the story, so when the story flashes back you go back to the statue. Visual cues are the language of cinema after all(*). I thought this was a beautiful touch and then he completely ruined it with the "earlier that morning" title. Few things in a film make me madder than a director not respecting my intelligence as a viewer.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:14
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I enjoyed it, loved the scenes that looked ripped straight out of the Thing, my little brother loving loved it he thinks its his 3rd best film, for me its probably 4 or 5th favorite.
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Jan 5, 2016 06:16
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movie poo poo, so what
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Jan 5, 2016 08:44
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Just noticed the soundtrack for this is available on Apple Music in case anyone was curious.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:45
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I saw this with a few other people. I can see why the reviews are so polarized. My friends mom had no idea what it was and just walked into her local theater just to burn some time. He said when she came home she was visibly distressed, said she saw a movie which was good, but she was so disturbed and shocked that she didn't want to talk about it. During the second half there were a few spots where about half the audience was laughing, including me, the other half gasping in horror, and three people got up and left the theater right after the flash back from the Major. Overall I thought it was a great movie. Very entertaining from start to finish and was satisfied with the ending.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:53
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just want to say that on the last page people discussing the thematic and character implications of Ruth smashing daisy's guitar while not being aware he did so because she directly threatened him was pretty good. edit: InfiniteZero posted:(*) and then where this gets interesting is that Tarantino fully understands and practices this but chose to make the turning point of The Hateful Eight (the poisoning of the coffee) occur through omniscient narration instead of visually. great point. I love the way he just relishes in the line. "poisoned, the coffee"
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Jan 5, 2016 21:52
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Begby posted:I saw this with a few other people. I can see why the reviews are so polarized. My friends mom had no idea what it was and just walked into her local theater just to burn some time. He said when she came home she was visibly distressed, said she saw a movie which was good, but she was so disturbed and shocked that she didn't want to talk about it. I wonder how many older people went in expecting a John Wayne style western or something. Going to the theater today must be so hard for them. 
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Jan 5, 2016 22:13
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SeANMcBAY posted:I wonder how many older people went in expecting a John Wayne style western or something. Going to the theater today must be so hard for them. It's more realistic than older westerns where people shot in the stomach fall forward when they die, or all the people who just got "winged" instead of wounded mortally.
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Jan 5, 2016 22:16
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InfiniteZero posted:(*) and then where this gets interesting is that Tarantino fully understands and practices this but chose to make the turning point of The Hateful Eight (the poisoning of the coffee) occur through omniscient narration instead of visually. I'll see your "interesting" and raise you a "lazy".
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Jan 5, 2016 22:36
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Red posted:It's more realistic than older westerns where people shot in the stomach fall forward when they die, or all the people who just got "winged" instead of wounded mortally. Monte Hellman, Sam Peckinpah, Michael Carreras, Sergio Leone, and Sergio Corbucci were all making very graphically violent westerns in the 60s so old people should probably be used to it by now.
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Jan 5, 2016 22:58
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FreudianSlippers posted:Monte Hellman, Sam Peckinpah, Michael Carreras, Sergio Leone, and Sergio Corbucci were all making very graphically violent westerns in the 60s so old people should probably be used to it by now. True, but I mean, did any of those have people get sprayed with brain matter?
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Jan 5, 2016 23:22
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None of it is nearly as graphic as Hateful Eight but Hateful Eight is really loving brutal even by Tarantino standards. Django (1966) does have a scene where a gang tortures a man by cutting his ear off and making him eat it. It inspired the ear cutting scene in Reservoir Dogs.
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Jan 6, 2016 01:50
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Tarantino's use of extremely graphic violence over his last three films is definitely indebted to Italian cinema, although not so much their Westerns.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:07
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What was that western that was a little over the top gory and sorta near the end they are in a cabin up in the mountain in the winter and the main guy takes some baby away. It's vague as gently caress but if someone knows...
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Jan 6, 2016 23:20
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Tarantino's use of extremely graphic violence over his last three films is definitely indebted to Italian cinema, although not so much their Westerns. I dunno, Four of the Apocalypse, Companeros and a few of the other italian westerns get pretty rowdy.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:24
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ruddiger posted:I dunno, Four of the Apocalypse, Companeros and a few of the other italian westerns get pretty rowdy. Four of the Apocalypse is violent and cruel but as i recall there's very little actual blood/gore, particularly for a Fulci movie. but yeah, i'll concede that there are a whole lot of spaghetti westerns i haven't seen. is Companeros good?
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Jan 6, 2016 23:26
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Harime Nui posted:Also now that I think about it, how interesting is it that Marquis Warren reacts just as if Donergue had in fact desecrated a personal letter to him from Abraham Lincoln, with such speed I really gotta think it was instinctual. Since the letter was, in fact, bullshit, yet I think it had come to occupy a place in his mind as if it was real. Which is part of the whole point, about the myth of Lincoln and all the goodness that it stands for. poo poo even Mannix is kind of like "wow" about Lincoln which says a lot. To add on to this, when Maddix reads the letter at the end of the movie, the Major is mouthing the words along with him whilst lying on the bed. Clearly they had some meaning for him as well, otherwise why bother memorizing it? In fact it calls into question whether or not the letter wasn't real in the first place. Harime Nui posted:Honestly up until the end you're made to feel very sympathetic with Daisy, I think it's fair to say the movie pushes you in that way, so you don't want to see her die---hence Oswaldo's whole monologue about justice, both the condemnation of frontier justice and the praise for impartiality. [...] And again Daisy being played so charismatically you end up kind of rooting for her to make it out, which goes back to Tim Roth's whole speech about why feelings shouldn't conduct justice. Great stuff. I'm actually quite surprised that someone had a sympathetic view of that character. I cannot bring to mind a single moment that had me ever questioning that they deserved to be in the situation they were in. AppleCider posted:It took me a while to realize the exchange between Mannix and Tim Roth's character about coming to town for the hanging of some criminal they named was complete bullshit, and whoever started that line of conversation was banking on the other person being full of poo poo, as well. Someone already responded previously but I'll pile on as well. There's not a chance that Mannix wasn't being genuine in this situation, since he would immediately have been suspicious of Oswaldo backing him up, as it would have marked him specifically as someone who wasn't who they said they were. Additionally, having paperwork on a made-up-on-the-spot criminal would be rather too coincidental, I would think Synonamess Botch posted:I thought this was a beautiful touch and then he completely ruined it with the "earlier that morning" title. Few things in a film make me madder than a director not respecting my intelligence as a viewer. Considering that the shot of the stagecoach has completely unfamiliar characters, I think it would have been a bit jarring to just smash cut straight to it after seeing everyone writhing around on the floor bleeding. The only indication you have that it's a flashback is that the blizzard isn't going on at the Jesus statue. I don't think the title was all that insulting. ------- Responses out of the way, I just say it this afternoon in Austin at the alamo. The first half of the movie had me grinning gleefully, especially the cut to intermission when mexican Bob goes to cover the piano keys. Only thing I didn't care a whole lot for (although I'm just being nitpicky) is the kind of classic Tarantino cliche, where he has other characters talk about someone they're sitting next to and just kind of dumping exposition about them (e.g. "You've never heard of X? Why he's the fastest son of a gun in the west, he killed 52 men single handed in the chickasaw creek massacre back in..." blah blah blah you get the picture). It got pretty bad in the initial wagon scene once all four characters were riding together. Went with a friend who doesn't (as he says) like 'artsy fartsy' movies like this, so I could feel the impatience pouring off of him during the Overture, or the extended showing of horses trotting through snow. He specifically called out the scene where they were hammering in a line to the outhouse, and the entire 'earlier that morning' scene as being way too long and pointless. I enjoy things like that myself, although I can't really say why. A feeling of atmosphere, maybe. Speaking of atmosphere, the theater sucked. The screen felt like it was about 10 feet hitched up too high, and it was small, and the seats were very cramped. Also the table in front of the seats was just one long table across the entire row (alamo serves food during the movie), which made getting in and out a complete bitch. Audio was a bit wimpy too. I found it difficult to understand what characters were saying a few times, especially when Daisy was playing the guitar. I could make out maybe a quarter of the lyrics. Yes, I know that some of them were mumbled because she was distracted; I mean the ones she was belting out normally. I was a little dissapointed that I didn't really notice anything at all about the GLORIOUS 70mm format, nothing seemed at all different from a normal screening. Chalking that up to the smallish screen I guess. Definitely the last time I will bother going to that particular theater. All in all, solid and I enjoyed it! I don't have a super-strong urge to see it again like I did with Django, though.
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Jan 7, 2016 09:19
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Kaedric posted:To add on to this, when Maddix reads the letter at the end of the movie, the Major is mouthing the words along with him whilst lying on the bed. Clearly they had some meaning for him as well, otherwise why bother memorizing it? In fact it calls into question whether or not the letter wasn't real in the first place. The ending is way more powerful if it's fake though. It becomes Two men bonding over the purposefully cruel slow death of a woman by reiterating a lie, specifically a lie that Warren tells himself and others about his own heroism, a supposed heroism that has justified his own acts of unimaginable cruelty countless times before. As well, I couldn't help but sympathize with Daisy after the constant gleeful abuse Ruth puts her through, to the point where her shooting Ruth right in the chest could be called the one moment of pure cathartic violence in the film. It also helps that she's the most consistently powerless characters, apart from possibly the General. I Before E fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 09:29
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I don't see any justification thematically or plot-wise for the letter being real. Warren mouthing along to Mannix reading the letter doesn't indicate that. The (fake) letter still meant a lot to Warren because it was his successful tool for survival in America. His own creativity allowed him to disarm white folks and survive. Saw this in 70mm for the second time last night. I wanted to see it one more time before it moves on. Good that I did too, because I didn't get a program the first time around. Some things I noticed on the second viewing: - it's really apparent on a second viewing how suspicious and pragmatic Warren is throughout. Like obviously on the first time I noticed him looking at the jelly bean on the floor, but for whatever reason I didn't catch that he also noticed the missing container on the top of the shelf until viewing 2 - not that it matters, but I didn't see any evidence to whether Gage or Mobray is the one who actually poisons the coffee - I felt stronger about Mannix actually being the sheriff this time. If he wasn't, he'd have no justification for not shooting Gage when he's unarmed.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:58
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Vintersorg posted:What was that western that was a little over the top gory and sorta near the end they are in a cabin up in the mountain in the winter and the main guy takes some baby away. Are you talking about Cold Mountain? There was an intense baby scene in that and overall the movie was more brutal than I was expecting it to be. I remember taking a date to see that movie in theaters and having a bad time. Kaedric posted:I'm actually quite surprised that someone had a sympathetic view of that character. I cannot bring to mind a single moment that had me ever questioning that they deserved to be in the situation they were in. Did they ever say outright what Daisy did? I get that she was certainly guilty and was a member of a pretty notorious gang, but Ruth was so hostile to her I got the impression that she was wanted for something specifically heinous.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:20
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Hobo Clown posted:Did they ever say outright what Daisy did? I get that she was certainly guilty and was a member of a pretty notorious gang, but Ruth was so hostile to her I got the impression that she was wanted for something specifically heinous. They only ever say that she's a murderer. I think the cinematography in the Domergue's Got A Secret chapter is some of Tarentino's best to date. The coffee pot in the fore and background of the shots is most excellent.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:37
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I thought the Jesus statue in the beginning looked a lot like Atlas holding up the world when it is initially zoomed in. Did anyone else see this or was it just me being really high?
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Jan 7, 2016 17:41
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Kaedric posted:I'm actually quite surprised that someone had a sympathetic view of that character. I cannot bring to mind a single moment that had me ever questioning that they deserved to be in the situation they were in. It's probably a testament to Jennifer Jason Leigh acting the hell out of the part. There were two moments when I was really sympathetic towards her character: the lingering shot on her face after one of the times Ruth hits her in the carriage and when she plays the guitar.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:48
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LesterGroans posted:It's probably a testament to Jennifer Jason Leigh acting the hell out of the part. There were two moments when I was really sympathetic towards her character: the lingering shot on her face after one of the times Ruth hits her in the carriage and when she plays the guitar. The guitar scene might be my favorite scene in the movie. Her messing up the tune, the song itself, Ruth's reaction to her added lyrics, the way its filmed. All awesome.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:54
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LesterGroans posted:It's probably a testament to Jennifer Jason Leigh acting the hell out of the part. There were two moments when I was really sympathetic towards her character: the lingering shot on her face after one of the times Ruth hits her in the carriage and when she plays the guitar. Hah, that's funny you say that, because I was going to use those two scenes as evidence to the contrary! The lingering shot in the stagecoach shows her leering at the Major, then switching to what I guess could be called a 'passive' face as she looked outside, then she leers again. Sort of showing her wound/the blood as a badge of honor. To me it indicated she purposefully was doing things to get a rise out of Ruth & the Major. The guitar scene she is reveling in the fact that her captor is about to die a horrible death, and purposefully chooses a song that makes fun of him dying, and her going free. Though she only inadvertently reveals this when forced to sing the missing verse by Ruth. I can see how this might be viewed in different ways, but due to the fact that her and her friends clearly have no compunction murdering at least 5 innocents (though we don't see this for sure until later), it is hard to sympathize with her glee in Ruth's impending death.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:57
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Kaedric posted:Hah, that's funny you say that, because I was going to use those two scenes as evidence to the contrary! The lingering shot in the stagecoach shows her leering at the Major, then switching to what I guess could be called a 'passive' face as she looked outside, then she leers again. Sort of showing her wound/the blood as a badge of honor. To me it indicated she purposefully was doing things to get a rise out of Ruth & the Major. I didn't think the look on her face when she's looking out the stagecoach was passive. I found it sad, like that's the real Daisy. I agree she's doing and saying things to get a rise of out Ruth and The Major, and when she turns back it's her putting her face on and acting the part. It flowed about the same with the guitar scene too. Her playing and singing was for her, it wasn't until Ruth came over and involved himself that she turned it into a specific taunt. MacheteZombie posted:The guitar scene might be my favorite scene in the movie. Her messing up the tune, the song itself, Ruth's reaction to her added lyrics, the way its filmed. All awesome. Hell yeah.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:06
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I did find myself sympathizing with Daisy as the movie wore on, and I was almost relieved when Channing Tatum showed up to save her, which is immediately undercut by his head exploding in an over the top fashion.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:41
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I did not sympathize with Daisy, because she spit on a letter from Abraham Lincoln. From that point on, I didn't like her (although the violence did get very uncomfortable) The fact that the letter was fake didn't change much: she didn't know it was fake when she did it! I've got a thing where I really hate racists, and she really came out as hardcore racist in the stagecoach and later.
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Jan 7, 2016 20:35
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What are you, some kind of racistist?
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Jan 7, 2016 21:20
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Kaedric posted:I'm actually quite surprised that someone had a sympathetic view of that character. I cannot bring to mind a single moment that had me ever questioning that they deserved to be in the situation they were in.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:24
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Daisy is a crude, hateful racist and murderer, who is tortured to death by a crude, hateful racist and a murderer. She may be a somewhat worse person than Chris and Marquis, she may not. We're mostly sympathetic towards Chris and Marquis because the Domergue Gang gets off the first shots, but had the roles been reversed, we probably would have been more sympathetic towards the Domergues.
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Jan 8, 2016 02:02
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The only person we can be sure who wasn't a murderer is Ruth because he always brings outlaws in to hang. Oswaldo? Murderer. Mexican Bob? Murderer. Sweet Dave? Ice cold killer. Did they ever say if Ruth was in the War? He talked like he was a veteran and seemed pretty annoyed at Confederates.
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Jan 8, 2016 02:48
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MonsieurChoc posted:I did not sympathize with Daisy, because she spit on a letter from Abraham Lincoln. From that point on, I didn't like her (although the violence did get very uncomfortable) Yup
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Jan 8, 2016 03:28
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Effectronica posted:Daisy is a crude, hateful racist and murderer, who is tortured to death by a crude, hateful racist and a murderer. She may be a somewhat worse person than Chris and Marquis, she may not. We're mostly sympathetic towards Chris and Marquis because the Domergue Gang gets off the first shots, but had the roles been reversed, we probably would have been more sympathetic towards the Domergues. Eh, I'm not 100% on board with this. For one, she wasn't tortured, she was just hanged. We don't see any evidence that Maddix is a bad person beyond being racist (which is effectively normal in the south for that time period), and the Major didn't murder anyone on screen. All we have is hearsay about the fire he started killing folks, but that can be chalked up to accident (or at least: unintentional) in the makings of his escape. He killed folks who hunted him down to try and kill him, which is self defense. And no one made the general pick up the pistol, he was just egged on with an (obvious?) lie. I'm not saying he's a good person, mind, but I think the idea that he's just as vile as the gang who flat out murdered a bunch of innocents doesn't hold much water.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:47
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Kaedric posted:Eh, I'm not 100% on board with this. For one, she wasn't tortured, she was just hanged. We don't see any evidence that Maddix is a bad person beyond being racist (which is effectively normal in the south for that time period), and the Major didn't murder anyone on screen. All we have is hearsay about the fire he started killing folks, but that can be chalked up to accident (or at least: unintentional) in the makings of his escape. He killed folks who hunted him down to try and kill him, which is self defense. And no one made the general pick up the pistol, he was just egged on with an (obvious?) lie. I'm not saying he's a good person, mind, but I think the idea that he's just as vile as the gang who flat out murdered a bunch of innocents doesn't hold much water. In a hanging, you snap someone's neck with a short drop, killing them quickly. Marquis and Chris strangle her slowly while laughing at her. Daisy is as racist as Maddix, though. There's a pretty clear equivalence to them. Marquis never brings in a live bounty, which means that he kills every single person he tracks down. While we could say that the film is neutral on whether bounty hunting is ethical, he's plainly murdered people even from that perspective. All of it within the law, such as slaughtering Native Americans, killing bounties, or shooting in self-defense, but a lot of it dubious ethically.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:55
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Effectronica posted:In a hanging, you snap someone's neck with a short drop, killing them quickly. Ideally, yes, but that's not all that easy to do. It depends on the skill of the hangman, something Ruth would have no control over.
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Jan 8, 2016 05:33
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I definitely felt like the movie was intentionally sending conflicting signals about its characters. Marquis Warren: He's the most sadistic man of the entire lot. I thought he was representing "righteous" justice. He brings violent retribution to those who are deserving of it. But he takes it to a brutal level justifying any kind of violence which is meant to leave us discomforted. His victims in the film are mostly helpless as he kills them and while they may be killers themselves, that doesn't make Warren in the right. Daisy Domergue: The film automatically assumes her guilt and not even Daisy argues against it. But it is meaningful that her crime is never explained and the beating she takes cannot be viewed as justified in any light. Her resilience during it all is actually pretty endearing. And the Domergue faction probably shows more tenderness than anyone else in the film. They all care about each other. I love the moment where they hug and wish each other luck before the stagecoach arrives. They're risking their lives in a desperate, and ultimately doomed, attempt to save Daisy and they're doing it out of love for her. Despite them being murderers, there's a real focus on their humanity in the film.
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Jan 8, 2016 05:45
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Crappy Jack posted:What are you, some kind of racistist? Yeah, I guess.
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Jan 8, 2016 11:07
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Hijinks Ensue posted:Ideally, yes, but that's not all that easy to do. It depends on the skill of the hangman, something Ruth would have no control over. that, plus a lot of old west hangings ended up being more similar to what we might call lynchings
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Jan 8, 2016 13:53
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 16:47 |
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The letter, and its role in the end, was a wonderfully cruel joke. The letter is false, and speaks to an idealistic side of Warren, the Warren that thinks of himself as the one who broke out of the prisoner camp, not the one who ended up having to kill his own men to do so. It's pretty interesting what he leaves out of his story until Mannix highlights it. Still, they bond by oppressing a woman and then reading out this letter, believing the bullshit that Warren himself wrote as justifying their mob justice. It's an incredibly cynical view from Tarantino, who argues that people can only get along when they're able to oppress what they see as a common enemy. Notice how the racial tensions present in the early going between Mannix and Warren disappears later on. They've reached a common ground.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:42
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