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I am in shock that people here have actually ever burned the most fun scroll in the game on shiny coins. But that sucks about the hat. At least you needed one for the armour slot, right? Right??
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Jan 7, 2016 15:28
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Sitting on 3 runes and feeling comfortable, want to do some extended. What should I be looking to train? Assuming I could make level 9 spells castable I have only found dragon's call and shatter so far. The idea of running around in dragon form with a gang of dragons seems pretty appealing ... Any other advice? code:
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Jan 7, 2016 16:40
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IronicDongz posted:Do you expect to get acquirement before that? I'm pretty sure that on a lot of games I don't get it at all. It may just be confirmation bias, but I usually expect one scroll of acquirement by the end of Lair. It's not an every game thing, and I'm not surprised to get acquirement later, but I would be surprised to get deep into a game without finding a single scroll of acquirement.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:03
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Can confirm, that's confirmation bias. I've had games where my first acquirement scroll is the last undiscovered one in the list.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:07
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FulsomFrank posted:I am in shock that people here have actually ever burned the most fun scroll in the game on shiny coins. Gold is fun. This is also why Tomb is such a wonderful branch. Hail Gozag!
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Jan 7, 2016 19:26
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PleasingFungus posted:Gold is fun. This is also why Tomb is such a wonderful branch. I wish shops could spawn in Pan or you could get a chance to find Bazaar floors or something.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:58
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Sage Grimm posted:Can confirm, that's confirmation bias. I've had games where my first acquirement scroll is the last undiscovered one in the list. It's not possible to query the knowledge bots for XL or branch at which scrolls or potions were identified, is it?
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Jan 7, 2016 20:11
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Not My Leg posted:It's not possible to query the knowledge bots for XL or branch at which scrolls or potions were identified, is it? No, sorry, that's not tracked. FulsomFrank posted:I wish shops could spawn in Pan or you could get a chance to find Bazaar floors or something. Same!
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Jan 7, 2016 20:13
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No because there are no default milestones for finding consumables.
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Jan 7, 2016 20:13
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PleasingFungus posted:No, sorry, that's not tracked. I was almost positive it wasn't, but thought I'd check. FulsomFrank posted:I wish shops could spawn in Pan or you could get a chance to find Bazaar floors or something. There really should be some way (other than convert to Gozag) to use money in extended. Shops in Pan are a particularly good idea because they'd automatically be kind of like Bazaar floors since you can never go back.
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Jan 7, 2016 22:43
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I'm still pretty new to the game so I'm not 100% on the equipment math yet. I just reached the Depths with a +9 war axe with vampirism and a +3 buckler with a couple resistances but also Slay+3. Should I swap up to a battle axe? I have one with a flame brand, but will it outdamage the +3 slaying bonus I get from my shield? And is losing vampirism worth it?
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Jan 7, 2016 23:26
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What enchantment is the battleaxe? It probably does outdamage the war axe since that's a pretty low-tier weapon, but +9 and vampirism are pretty valuable. So is the buckler, but unfortunately axes just don't make that great of one-handers.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:30
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Axes are fine with one-handed. Realize that axes crosstrains with maces extremely well. Getting your maces skill up to the mindelay of a demon whip should not be hard, and that's a fine single target option. You can use the axe to clear out larger groups of less durable enemies.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:42
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IronicDongz posted:What enchantment is the battleaxe? It probably does outdamage the war axe since that's a pretty low-tier weapon, but +9 and vampirism are pretty valuable. It's a battleaxe of flaming, which is supposed to be pretty good if what the wiki says is current. It feels a little bit like my damage is lacking but I don't want to end up making a lateral move damage-wise while losing vampirism too.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:43
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The damage on slaying and enchantment bonuses are both rolls up to the value per hit. So you're getting +1d9 and +1d3. Also somehow or other the base damage gets multipliers for weapon skill and a little bit for stats. Base damage is pretty important.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:56
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Oh man, a Demonic Bazaar themed Pan floor would be awesome. Just an insane hodgepodge of all sorts of demons, random humanoids from various branches, and a smattering of Vault guards and liches, all pissed off that you barged into their giant evil flea market. Every single mob (that initially spawned) is carrying a modest amount of gold, there's a whole bunch of different shops, and Gozag has an altar in a little shrine in the middle.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:42
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EightFlyingCars posted:It's a battleaxe of flaming, which is supposed to be pretty good if what the wiki says is current. It feels a little bit like my damage is lacking but I don't want to end up making a lateral move damage-wise while losing vampirism too. Usually the rule of thumb is that base damage should be valued twice as much as enchant damage. The war axe has 11 base damage while the battleaxe has 15, so that's a difference of 8, -3 because of the buckler, so 5. Plus the fire damage, but most of the time I think vampirism is more valuable. So unless the difference in enchant is less than 5, the battleaxe isn't gonna be that much better in damage. But you can always carry it around until you enchant it up more, I probably would since the XP needed for a buckler doesn't attach you to it that much.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:47
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EightFlyingCars posted:I'm still pretty new to the game so I'm not 100% on the equipment math yet. Very roughly: On a one hand weapon, +3 enchantment (or slaying bonus) is worth +2 base damage. On a two hand weapon +2 enchantment is worth +1 base damage. I think the difference is because, in general, two hand weapons take more skill to use, and more skill means a higher base damage multiplier, so base damage becomes more important. Of course, this only considers damage, if the battleaxe isn't at mindelay then you also would want to consider attack speed, and losing the buckler's shield. resistentialism posted:The damage on slaying and enchantment bonuses are both rolls up to the value per hit. So you're getting +1d9 and +1d3. Also somehow or other the base damage gets multipliers for weapon skill and a little bit for stats. Base damage is pretty important. Are slaying and enchantment bonuses calculated separately? I always assumed the game totaled all slaying and then rolled, rather than rolling each individually.
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Jan 8, 2016 01:12
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Not My Leg posted:Very roughly: On a one hand weapon, +3 enchantment (or slaying bonus) is worth +2 base damage. On a two hand weapon +2 enchantment is worth +1 base damage. I think the difference is because, in general, two hand weapons take more skill to use, and more skill means a higher base damage multiplier, so base damage becomes more important.
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Jan 8, 2016 01:38
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IronicDongz posted:Right, but like is it +1, +7 etc. The buckler is pretty sweet and vampirism will help with a lot of stuff, so unless the battleaxe is already a high enchant I wouldn't use it. It's +2 but I have enchant weapon scrolls to burn on it. Or should I save them for something else?
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Jan 8, 2016 02:07
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The biggest axe possible is the executioner's axe. There's also the broad axe, the biggest one-handed axe, if you want to keep wearing the buckler.
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Jan 8, 2016 02:10
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I think that usually it's best to invest in a battleaxe instead of waiting for an exec axe.
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Jan 8, 2016 02:29
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I found a really good one in Elf, too. But I got too cocky and died. Tele scroll didn't kick in in time! I've never made it this far with a character before. Eleven hours, up in smoke. 
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Jan 8, 2016 06:49
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So, what's the smart staff to use for this guy? http://pastebin.com/BYR7FhEx I'm thinking staff of fire since I'm going around fireballing everything right now and hunger, while a problem, can usually be solved relatively easily. Would I be better off with the staff of energy (or earth)? Also, I'm loving this run so far, got staff of fire and energy, then a scroll of acq and went for a staff, got a staff of earth. Compared to my +0 hat last run, I'm a happy gargoyle. Also, for all newbs like me who are trying to play a caster after winning with the obligatory MiBe. Try GrEE^Ve, it's fun as hell, even if I keep dying after Lair, at least I'm getting there relatively consistently.
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Jan 8, 2016 07:01
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Both fire and earth staves provide a good attack for you to get rid of less dangerous enemies and keep your mana pool up. Energy is nice but you shouldn't need it unless you're trying to cast shatter or firestorm with max hunger costs or something. Make sure you train up evocations and staves some more if you want your melee attacks to take up some of your offensive needs and save MP.
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Jan 8, 2016 07:16
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apple posted:Both fire and earth staves provide a good attack for you to get rid of less dangerous enemies and keep your mana pool up. Energy is nice but you shouldn't need it unless you're trying to cast shatter or firestorm with max hunger costs or something. Make sure you train up evocations and staves some more if you want your melee attacks to take up some of your offensive needs and save MP. Energy is a must carry because you can evoke it while wielding to get mp back. So you'll want it as a swap, no matter what you end up using.
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Jan 8, 2016 12:58
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Superterranean posted:Energy is a must carry because you can evoke it while wielding to get mp back. So you'll want it as a swap, no matter what you end up using. Of course, but as a GrEE you can be a somewhat resilient melee dude on top of casting spells, so most of the time it just comes down to swap->recover MP->spell vs tabbing enemy. Outside of battles you can swap into energy and press 'v' a lot though, which is worth pointing out specially in places like Abyss where resting time is limited. e: there's corner cases like "I need to get one more iron shot off to kill this hell sentinel" but I'd rather avoid that situation entirely 
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Jan 8, 2016 14:03
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Pressing v 3 times then casting shatter will probably do more damage than tabbing with an enhancer staff. But then I've never understood why people would go caster background then transition into hybrid. If you're already down the road of blaster why step off it? In my experience one of the big advantages of melee fighters is the focus of xp. You only have a single offensive skill so you can get it high while also investing heavily in defence skills, whereas a caster typically has at least 3 different xp sinks they want for their offensive power. Why split your focus even further into two additional skills so your fire staff does damage in melee when you could throw fireballs instead? Becoming a half okay caster then throwing on the brakes to suck less at melee seems counterintuitive. So in conclusion with that spell set you want a conjurations staff, but fire is nearly as good considering it hits everything but iron shot & lrd. It also gets you a resist, so that's nice. Swap to energy to regen mana.
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Jan 8, 2016 14:49
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It's because being a hybrid is fun. Swapping into a staff of Energy to evoke it 3 times then back sounds incredibly annoying and tedious, almost  HAM-like.e; I guess its not that bad if you have them on 'a' and 'b' then swapkey but still
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Jan 8, 2016 15:10
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Pure blasters are so dependent on MP that even if you have three sources of mp restoration (vehumet, staff of energy, sublimation), you can still pretty easily get yourself into a situation in which you're screwed if you're careless and unlucky. Couple that with paper thin defenses and blasters can end up really struggling when they run into unexpectedly difficult fights. What's more, you can blast your way through a three rune game pretty easily with no more than 16 in your primary spell schools, at which point being able to handle a wide variety of situations and being less reliant on things always going your way in a fight is probably a better path toward consistent survival than level 9 spells, which push you towards a dangerous play style in which you can blow through your mp very quickly while also calling a whole bunch of attention to your position when you're playing a character that has little staying power in a prolonged fight. Heavily increasing returns on experience needed to progress in levels makes spreading your xp out across multiple skills very rewarding if you have a good sense of what you're aiming for. A good hybrid isn't a half strength fighter and a half strength caster, it's 75%/75% and has access to tools that aren't available to either "pure" build.
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Jan 8, 2016 15:24
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Angry Diplomat posted:Oh man, a Demonic Bazaar themed Pan floor would be awesome. Just an insane hodgepodge of all sorts of demons, random humanoids from various branches, and a smattering of Vault guards and liches, all pissed off that you barged into their giant evil flea market. Every single mob (that initially spawned) is carrying a modest amount of gold, there's a whole bunch of different shops, and Gozag has an altar in a little shrine in the middle. Man, stop coming up with good ideas for special Pan floors. This sounds dangerously close to... fun. PleasingFungus, is there actual resistance on the dev side of things to making Pan more interesting beyond a lot of similar looking floors mixed up with Pan Lord lairs and a holy themed one? Not trying to sound whiny or demanding, I'm just curious if there's an actual resistance to making Pan feel more unique with floors themed around branches or gods, kind of like a dumping ground for interesting/wacky ideas? I've never made a floor or vault so I have no idea who difficult it is to make these things.
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Jan 8, 2016 15:37
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Unimpressed posted:So, what's the smart staff to use for this guy? http://pastebin.com/BYR7FhEx At this very moment, the staff of earth is the better one to use. IIRC, it should trigger roughly 4/30 or over 10% more often due to your skills. Over the long run the staff of fire will be fine. I'd suggest roughly aiming for 20 fire/10 evo, at which point the staff will trigger 100% of the time. The elemental skill is weighted double for damage, evocations double for the effect triggering. When in doubt, err towards enough fire and conjurations for firestorm. Or shatter, since you have that in a book. Over the course of a regular game, fire and earth are somewhat competive. The staff of fire ignores AC, but checks resistances. The staff of earth checks AC, but ignores resistances. As you get further into the game, fire immune enemies will become more common, and reaching extended the staff of earth will theoretically be better - but the truly dangerous things will probably be hit by spells anyways.
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Jan 8, 2016 19:21
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FulsomFrank posted:PleasingFungus, is there actual resistance on the dev side of things to making Pan more interesting beyond a lot of similar looking floors mixed up with Pan Lord lairs and a holy themed one? Not trying to sound whiny or demanding, I'm just curious if there's an actual resistance to making Pan feel more unique with floors themed around branches or gods, kind of like a dumping ground for interesting/wacky ideas? I've never made a floor or vault so I have no idea who difficult it is to make these things. No objection that I know of. Most dev chat about Pan is about more radical revisions (e.g. a fixed number of floors) and the pros and cons thereof, and most vault work tends to go elsewhere; there've been a decent number of new Hell ends recently, for example. Making a vault isn't too bad; I'm a huge idiot and I managed. It's one of the best documented parts of crawl. My approach was to start by making smaller, mostly 'decorative' vaults, and then move to larger, more complex layouts. Haven't made an encompass vault yet myself.
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Jan 8, 2016 20:02
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Thanks for the staff advice everyone. Unfortunately I ran into Saint Roka and thought I could take him. I was wrong. Still, I'll keep the advice and reasons in mind for next time I'm lucky enough to have such choice (never again?).
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Jan 8, 2016 20:55
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Angry Diplomat posted:Oh man, a Demonic Bazaar themed Pan floor would be awesome. Just an insane hodgepodge of all sorts of demons, random humanoids from various branches, and a smattering of Vault guards and liches, all pissed off that you barged into their giant evil flea market. Every single mob (that initially spawned) is carrying a modest amount of gold, there's a whole bunch of different shops, and Gozag has an altar in a little shrine in the middle. And the Demonic rune on sale for 5000 gold.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:55
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Trying GaFi of Chei, and every time I think I"m doing good, it's suddenly Ogre*splat because I can't move away and don't have enough healing. Gah.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:10
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GAme is now all == ID? What ID? gently caress your ID! (I'm on D9. I've found /0/ ID scrolls).
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Jan 8, 2016 23:54
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Alistair's Intoxication has been Basically now you don't int damage yourself, it works on more rPois-y enemies, and the self-confusion is now Vertigo (dismissal removal), but it's up a spell level.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:02
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My precious Mass Confusion. Nooo, my Enchanters way of boosting their Confuse spell power to make it worthwhile through end-game will eventually disappear.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:10
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Angry Diplomat posted:Oh man, a Demonic Bazaar themed Pan floor would be awesome. Just an insane hodgepodge of all sorts of demons, random humanoids from various branches, and a smattering of Vault guards and liches, all pissed off that you barged into their giant evil flea market. Every single mob (that initially spawned) is carrying a modest amount of gold, there's a whole bunch of different shops, and Gozag has an altar in a little shrine in the middle. Didn't notice PleasingFungus much more illuminating post on the matter. Learn from the fungus! dpeg fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 00:38
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