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Fwoderwick posted:I haven't played it so I don't know if the Pre Sequel helps you warm to Jack at all with all that betrayal, but I have played BL2 and hilarious as he is, the man is an utter monster. I mean, the game never pretends that Jack is a good person. You don't get a lot of information about Angel except some audio logs but that's because Jack made every effort to keep her hidden. If you don't already know about Angel from BL2 and you don't pay a lot of attention, I guess you could come away from the Pre-Sequel with the idea that Jack was a basically good natured jackass that the world poo poo on until he went bananas. Personally I think if the events of the Pre-Sequel hadn't happened, Jack wouldn't have been nearly as bad as he was in BL2, but it doesn't change the fact that he's the guy who enslaved his daughter and probably has some kind of clinical personality disorder.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:43
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CuwiKhons posted:it doesn't change the fact that he's the guy who enslaved his daughter and probably has some kind of clinical personality disorder. Its worth noting that Jack's descent into madness likely began long before the Pre-Sequel back when as a little girl, Angel's Siren powers went out of control and she accidentally killed her own mother. Jack lost the women he loved at the hands of a daughter who, as one of seven sirens in the known universe, would be hunted down by people who wanted her power. When he locked her away it was most likely his original intention to protect her from both herself and the people that would use her.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:06
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Trust Jack, he has a plan.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:18
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Panzer Skank posted:* Jack is a terrible programmer Eh? I honestly don't remember him doing anything at all one way or another, programming-wise.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:20
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whowhatwhere posted:Eh? I honestly don't remember him doing anything at all one way or another, programming-wise. I'm trying to remember the exact circumstance but there's at least two or three times in pre-sequel where he's like "I'll code us out of this!!" or "don't worry I can hack it!!" and then he makes everything lovely and worse. Kaubocks remind me what frickin quests i'm thinking of, cause I remember laughing at it for like a hour
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Jan 9, 2016 00:26
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Panzer Skank posted:I'm trying to remember the exact circumstance but there's at least two or three times in pre-sequel where he's like "I'll code us out of this!!" or "don't worry I can hack it!!" and then he makes everything lovely and worse. Kaubocks remind me what frickin quests i'm thinking of, cause I remember laughing at it for like a hour In which case hey, he's not all bad
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Jan 9, 2016 00:30
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I thought the code for loader bots was co-opted from a peaceful AI, and that's why they've been getting weirder and weirder now that Jack's dead? Wasn't that in the first episode? Edit: Episode 2. quote:We learn that Jack played a part in creating the AI for the Loader Bots. It was created from a rogue AI that didn't want to fight or be subjected to violence. Captain Bravo fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 00:32
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Hostile V posted:If Jack had a 100 foot robot he would make terrible choices with it and that's all the more reason to not trust him with even the smallest robot. Jack had a 100 foot robot and boy howdy did he make terrible choices with it. He made terrible choices with all the thousands of other smaller robots he had at his command as well. Some choices more terrible than others. Based solely on Jack's history, which admittedly Rhys would not know to the extent that a Borderlands fan does, trusting Jack is a terrible idea.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:44
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Yeah Jack didn't program the Loader Bots. Their combat programming came from Felicity, a military AI who was sentient enough to prefer nonviolence. Jack wiped her personality because he didn't need pacifist robots. That's why the Loader Bots have been getting weird now that Jack isn't around to police them. Felicity's personality is starting to come through.Strayed posted:Its worth noting that Jack's descent into madness likely began long before the Pre-Sequel back when as a little girl, Angel's Siren powers went out of control and she accidentally killed her own mother. Jack lost the women he loved at the hands of a daughter who, as one of seven sirens in the known universe, would be hunted down by people who wanted her power. When he locked her away it was most likely his original intention to protect her from both herself and the people that would use her. There's an Echo recording in BL2 from when Jack first put Angel in the control core - she's a little girl and she's scared and crying. Regardless of Jack's reasoning for doing so, Angel never wanted to be locked away and her unhappiness never stopped Jack from using her for his own gain.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:01
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Panzer Skank posted:I'm trying to remember the exact circumstance but there's at least two or three times in pre-sequel where he's like "I'll code us out of this!!" or "don't worry I can hack it!!" and then he makes everything lovely and worse. Kaubocks remind me what frickin quests i'm thinking of, cause I remember laughing at it for like a hour an update on this, I've been digging through pre-sequel quests and have been unable to find any hard evidence of him being bad at programming or hacking 
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Jan 9, 2016 01:06
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Can't trust a guy who'd punch his own mom. Fiona works best when under intense pressure. Trust Fiona
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Jan 9, 2016 01:06
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I like Jack but I like him because he's a very funny villain. Jack was not a good person driven to madness to become a bad person. Jack was a bad person driven to madness to become Space Hitler, CEO.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:10
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Kaubocks posted:an update on this, I've been digging through pre-sequel quests and have been unable to find any hard evidence of him being bad at programming or hacking rip, i might just be misremembering then. He still sucks in plenty of other ways though !
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Jan 9, 2016 01:12
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Kaubocks posted:an update on this, I've been digging through pre-sequel quests and have been unable to find any hard evidence of him being bad at programming or hacking I think people believe that's what it means when someone is a "low-level" programmer, which he started as. "Low-Level" does not mean low status. "Low-Level" means stuff like machine code and what-not. And that stuff is not easy (reference: me).
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Jan 9, 2016 01:13
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Are we not supposed to interpret "low-level programmer" as in "Lowly, cubicle-dwelling code monkey"? I don't know how plot-relevant informing the audience that he works with assembly more than C++ is. Although, if we needed more reason to understand his descent into madness and evil...
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Jan 9, 2016 01:15
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He's in charge of the Helios space station. Hyperion's weird but I'm not sure they hand off space stations to random grunts.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:19
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Dolash posted:Are we not supposed to interpret "low-level programmer" as in "Lowly, cubicle-dwelling code monkey"? I don't know how plot-relevant informing the audience that he works with assembly more than C++ is. Although, if we needed more reason to understand his descent into madness and evil... It's supposed to establish that the guy is smarter than he seems, is what I can pick up from it. Assembly can be a pain in the rear end, dude.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:22
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CuwiKhons posted:He's in charge of the Helios space station. Hyperion's weird but I'm not sure they hand off space stations to random grunts. This has been bugging me for a while and maybe you can answer this for me since you're more knowledgeable about Borderlands than I am: how come Jack doesn't know how to shut down his big rear end space laser but Moxxi does
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Jan 9, 2016 01:26
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Trust Finoa gently caress. JACK.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:27
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Kaubocks posted:This has been bugging me for a while and maybe you can answer this for me since you're more knowledgeable about Borderlands than I am: Well I mean, Moxxi doesn't know how to shut off his big rear end space laser - Moxxi knows how to blow up his big rear end space laser while pretending to be shutting it off. To be honest it's been awhile since I played the Pre-Sequel but wasn't the big rear end space laser already overloading at that point from Zarpedon firing it so much? I think Jack couldn't shut it down because he was locked out of the usual controls and it was wigging out.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:30
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CuwiKhons posted:Well I mean, Moxxi doesn't know how to shut off his big rear end space laser - Moxxi knows how to blow up his big rear end space laser while pretending to be shutting it off. To be honest it's been awhile since I played the Pre-Sequel but wasn't the big rear end space laser already overloading at that point from Zarpedon firing it so much? I think Jack couldn't shut it down because he was locked out of the usual controls and it was wigging out. I think I'm close to this section on another playthrough so I'm going to pay close attention. Just every other time I've gotten there I've zoned out only to come to halfway through to see that Moxxi knows what to do and he doesn't.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:30
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Isn't Moxxi's plan just "inject it with slag until it blows up" under the pretense of "inject it with slag until it overloads and shuts itself down". That's not really a complex plan to begin with.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:32
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Yeah that's literally her plan. I suppose it makes sense that Jack would believe her as he probably knows more about machines and less about weird alien space monsters.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:36
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Kaubocks posted:This has been bugging me for a while and maybe you can answer this for me since you're more knowledgeable about Borderlands than I am: When we meet Jack at the beginning of TPS, his splash screen caption is "In Over His Head". And he is. I got the impression Jack wasn't really in charge of Helios during its construction, per se, he might have just finangled and politicked his way into an observer spot that let him borrow the big fancy office until the CEO showed up. Taking over Helios was just one step in his master plan, and he didn't think all the steps through. The way Hyperion handles promotions and assignments is completely black-box to me. Vasquez murdered his way to the top, Jack famously strangled his boss with his watch chain, and his boss Tassiter was a callous rear end in a top hat who had no qualms throwing lives away.
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Jan 9, 2016 02:07
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Hyperion operates on what I like to call King of the Hill rules. If you can occupy a better office than your old one and no one can kick you out of it, you just got promoted.
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Jan 9, 2016 02:12
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You can actually learn a lot in Tales by not saying anything at all - staying silent gives the other characters involved in a conversation bonus dialogue most of the time. I bring this up because in the very beginning of the game after Rhys is made janitor and everyone is panicking, when Vaughn asks what they're going to do, you normally respond with "steal his deal". But if you say nothing, it's Vaughn who brings up the vault key and states that the Hyperion execs wouldn't have allowed Vasquez to get away with killing Henderson if it weren't for the vault key. It is still King of the Hill in a sense, just with more bribery. And that makes sense - if you murdered your way to the top and one of your employees seems like he's also doing that then who's to say he won't come after your job next? You might just get rid of him unless he offers you something really worth your while.
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Jan 9, 2016 02:54
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Trust Jack because all good sociopaths deserve more then one life.
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Jan 9, 2016 03:18
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RareAcumen posted:Trust Jack. Fiona's plan will work out in the end but that's not really what I'm looking for here. I wanna see what happens if we go with the bad decision that has payoff. This is a very good reason to trust Jack. We must avenge Loader Bot, and that is only possible with the firepower obtained by hacking the drones.
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Jan 9, 2016 04:10
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Trust Fiona
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Jan 9, 2016 04:48
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Let's think about this: since this is Fiona and Rhys telling the tale to someone AND we know they're both pissed at each other. I like to think that Fiona is a bit more pissed at Rhys because he trusted Jack more than he trusted her. Why else would she have made Vaughn and Rhys sound like bro's back at the beginning of Episode 2-3?
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Jan 9, 2016 05:06
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Oh no, I've caught up with the videos. Trust Jack because I didn't in my own playthrough and I want to see what new horrible thing will come as a result.
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Jan 9, 2016 05:09
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trappersf posted:Let's think about this: since this is Fiona and Rhys telling the tale to someone AND we know they're both pissed at each other. It's a common action-drama tactic to have partners who get caught with their pants down by the bad guys start having an altercation in front of them, in order to make the bad guys relax out of confusion, so that the good guys can suddenly pull some poo poo. See the movies Bad Boys and Galaxy Quest for examples. For that matter, where are Sasha and Vaughn while this story is being told? Rhys and Fiona are probably just stalling for time before the cavalry comes riding in on a pimped-out LoaderBot to kick all the rear end.  (Still really need to actually play this game, but I tried out Fallout: New Vegas this past weekend and it seems to be consuming my soul.)
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Jan 9, 2016 05:21
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Felinoid posted:For that matter, where are Sasha and Vaughn while this story is being told? The answer is: Six feet under.
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Jan 9, 2016 05:46
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Trust Jack because he is cool and funny.
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Jan 9, 2016 07:01
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So, the man-hologram-thing that took over part of my body earlier and started our relationship by trying to strangle me for kicks is asking me to trust him/it with more access to my brain? No way. How much Rhys really knows of the things Jack did in life (Vaughn did say Rhys knew a lot about Jack though) feels less relevant to this decision than the fact that this AI isn't Jack. Rhys and Vaughn's talk about it even had Rhys having a few doubts about what's going on. The AI's been acting, well, murderously towards everything. Sure, this Jack-things's helped out a couple times but he's only done it for his own sake (he found it funny, he needed us to not die, whatever). It's just not engendered enough good will to make up for that whole "scaring the poo poo out of Rhys and trying to kill him" bit. Plus, we've had this whole teamwork thing going on, we've had Rhys and Sasha bonding a bit, Rhys and Fiona have taken on a couple problems together, Rhys literally just crowed over how good things have been going because of friendship and crap... We've gotta Trust Fiona here. When the chips are down, our team's had our back (while the Jack AI's just been looking out for numero uno).
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Jan 9, 2016 07:15
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HenryEx posted:The answer is: Six feet under. I'm pretty sure we don't have a clue. We hardly even know what Rhys and Fiona were doing out there when they got jumped - although those two are certainly conspicuous in their absence.
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Jan 9, 2016 07:26
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Dolash posted:I'm pretty sure we don't have a clue. We hardly even know what Rhys and Fiona were doing out there when they got jumped - although those two are certainly conspicuous in their absence. Or are they? That guy seems pretty tall, and he is wearing an overcoat.
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Jan 9, 2016 07:30
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Trust Fiona. You may have permission to shove yer father's mother off of a bus, but punching yer own mother is on another scale. A bad scale.
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Jan 9, 2016 10:48
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The Fat Swordsman posted:So, the man-hologram-thing that took over part of my body earlier and started our relationship by trying to strangle me for kicks is asking me to trust him/it with more access to my brain? No way. Bottom line, Handsome Jack only cares about Handsome Jack, part of the reason Moxxi tried to kill him in the Pre-Sequel was because she saw right through his heroic pretense and saw a dude who was itching to go full super villain, although you can thank the Merrif for giving Jack a taste for blood and vengeance to start with.
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Jan 9, 2016 14:48
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Or are they? That guy seems pretty tall, and he is wearing an overcoat. I now have the hilarious visual of the kidnapper being Sasha riding on Vaughn's shoulders
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Jan 9, 2016 14:59
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