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Yorkshire Tea posted:I found the Sealion talk on the previous page super interesting. Did the Germans ever really have a plausible win point for the war? Could they have conquered all of mainland Europe, not invaded Russian during Winter, won in Northern Africa and then just peaced out of there until they got their nukes working for Britain? What if the Nazi's had accepted Chamberlain's ultimatum and retreated out of Poland? The Russians would have done the heavy lifting invasion wise and then apportioned the spoils to the Nazis under the non-aggression pact agreement. Sealion. On paper the French should never have been defeated in 1940. The final deciding factor in warfare is the enemy's will to fight. Who can say whether England wouldn't have capitulated in the face of an airborne invasion? The message that the two sides took away from Crete was radically different. The Allies were in awe of the power of an airborne attack and the German's were horrified by the size of the casualties sustained. In alternate history you can only rely on figures and probabilities. Actual history is usually more astonishing.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:38
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I read a great piece somewhere about Britain in ww2 being the ultimate in fan fiction, and Churchill being a massive Mary Sue author self insert. At the time I thought it was pretty good, and only later realised that lots of the history we have of the Second World War is pretty much fan fiction already - it's a rare book that says "history is all about chance events, so hosed If I know!"
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Jan 9, 2016 00:45
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TildeATH posted:See, that's what happens when you model fingers and toes like people ask. With grogs, it's always a slippery slope to dongs. Dongs are very important to troop morale. Just ask Wagner.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:51
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TildeATH posted:See, that's what happens when you model fingers and toes like people ask. With grogs, it's always a slippery slope to dongs. You know speaking of dongs, I've noticed a distinct lack of venereal disease tracking lists. What kind of grog game is this where I can't even check to see if my privates have syphilis?
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Jan 9, 2016 00:57
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Every frost-bitten dong causes a delay in your ship building due to the drop in morale back home.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:58
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Ikasuhito posted:You know speaking of dongs, I've noticed a distinct lack of venereal disease tracking lists. What kind of grog game is this where I can't even check to see if my privates have syphilis? War in the Pacific - Surgeon General's Edition
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Jan 9, 2016 01:04
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Comrade Koba posted:War in the Pacific - Surgeon General's Edition I heard the surgeon's bureau had a massively disproportionate influence in ship design following some politics happening after ww2 actually. I couldn't back up any of this to save my life of course but the thought alone is entertaining.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:07
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Can't give you a ship that's already taken. Can I have the Amagi instead?
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Jan 9, 2016 01:24
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Loggie posted:Can I have the Amagi instead? As long as it hasn't been taking, you can have anything. (This is more for people still on the fence about picking a ship) Lucky ships are updated, aside from maybe last day seen/location.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:37
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Cartoon posted:On paper the French should never have been defeated in 1940. Then that piece of paper should say "They were organisationally, doctrinally and politically hosed from the get-go" on it.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:46
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SIGSEGV posted:If you can't invade empty alaskan islands and have your soldiers freeze their dongs off after staying in landing craft for three hours while battleships shell a penguin colony then I'm not sure anyone would want to play this game. See, the thing is, in order to prevent heavy disruption and loss of life during amphibious landings, you need to set a base hex as a "Preparation Target", and then wait roughly 100 days for the Preparation stat to climb to 100, then execute your landing. But if it's a lovely Alaskan island in the middle of nowhere and you don't expect resistance, would really wait for full preparation? Can you wait for full preparation if you have to repeat the process a dozen times over? It then becomes tempting to land without full prep, which then causes casualties and disruption when you land, which simulates real life gently caress ups during these misadventures!
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Jan 9, 2016 04:08
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sullat posted:Also, the "Russia attacks Germany" scenario comes to us from... the Nazis themselves, so it is a little suspect. Considering Stalin had achieved most of his territorial goals through the MR pact and was subsidizing the Germans through cheap oil and grain, he probably felt relatively secure from the Germans. I was (and still am) a serious student of military history, with a special interest in the Eastern Front in WWII. There's lots of corroborating evidence supporting the German claim that their attack on the Soviet Union was a necessary preemptive strike. The best, most complete, argument defending this possibility, in my opinion, is presented in a very readable book titled "Icebreaker" by a Russian historian who calls himself 'Suvorov. You can download the PDF copy of the book at http://justice4germans.com/2012/11/11/who-started-world-war-ii-the-answer-is-not-as-simple-as-we-have-been-led-to-believe/ (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 9, 2016 17:42
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let me be the first to say I saw "justice for germans dot come" and  Not clicking that link
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Jan 9, 2016 17:45
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Also, "a historian who calls himself 'Suvorov'" does not inspire confidence. The historical consensus, since the actual military history thread on SA has done this subject to death a couple of times, is that the only way you can call Barbarossa a necessary preemptive strike is if you assume war between the Nazis and Soviet Union was inevitable (it probably was, the Nazis were xenophobic dicks like that), then the Nazis struck while the Soviet Union was still relatively weak and vulnerable before it could consolidate and improve.
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Jan 9, 2016 17:56
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Belisarius6 posted:I was (and still am) a serious student of military history, with a special interest in the Eastern Front in WWII. There's lots of corroborating evidence supporting the German claim that their attack on the Soviet Union was a necessary preemptive strike. The best, most complete, argument defending this possibility, in my opinion, is presented in a very readable book titled "Icebreaker" by a Russian historian who calls himself 'Suvorov. You can download the PDF copy of the book at http://justice4germans.com/2012/11/11/who-started-world-war-ii-the-answer-is-not-as-simple-as-we-have-been-led-to-believe/ And lest readers take issue with my use of "preemptive strike" - yea, war between Germany and the Soviet Union was inevitable after Hitler openly declared his intentions to expand Germany eastwards in Mein Kampf, while the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) was equally frank in their unapologetic trumpeting to the world that the Red Army's mission was to export the Revolution abroad. War between the two was inevitable.
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Jan 9, 2016 17:58
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Splode posted:let me be the first to say I saw "justice for germans dot come" and Let me click it for you. The article on their front page is titled: "The Real Holocaust Victims Were the Victims of British Firebombing in World War II" The book Icebreaker that Belisarius6 linked to doesn't just put forward the idea that Hitler's strike was pre-emptive, but that the Soviets started WW2 and Stalin cannily tricked Hitler into all those invasions. The tagline for the website at the top is "Exploring the little known, but true history of National Socialism, Hitler and WWII, what was really behind it, and seeking truth, justice and honour for the German people" Here's an example of one of their articles: Adolf Hitler: An Overlooked Candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize posted:If anyone deserved the Nobel Peace Prize, it was Adolf Hitler. Hitler did not want war. World War II was forced on Germany. Poland was encouraged to attack Germany by the promises of British Ambassador Sir Howard William Kennard and French Ambassador Leon Noel. They promised unconditionally that England and France would come to Poland’s immediate aid should she need it in case of war with Germany; therefore, no matter what Poland did to provoke Germany’s attack, Poland had an assurance from England and France. With this guarantee, Poland began acting ruthlessly. In addition, Kennard and Noel flattered Poland into thinking she was a great power. As the Chinese proverb says, “You can flatter a man to jump off the roof.” They sabotaged the efforts of those Polish leaders who wanted a policy of friendship with Germany.1 Yes, basically it is exactly as bad as you thought. Reading the about page it seems that his parents survived British bombing and gave the author a serious hate for the Allies because of it. A lot of the articles are about the allied bombing of civilians being war crimes (which I don't necessarily disagree with) but he seems to have decided that this therefore means Nazi Germany was the good guy and therefore faultless and perfect in every possible way.
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Jan 9, 2016 17:59
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What the christ just happened
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Jan 9, 2016 18:00
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Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the Let's Play! subforum.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:00
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I guess an occasional salutary reminder that the grog world is divided into two groups: People like us who really enjoy ridiculously in depth games of strategy and planning. and Hitler apologists
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Jan 9, 2016 18:03
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Hahaha it's a shame Ensign Expendable isn't here, he'd probably get a kick out of someone attempting to seriously cite that discredited hack Suvorov.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:06
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   That's a big ship, I want it still. Please stop shooting it.  We begin the attacks to take the Changsha fortifications – this is going to be a long and bloody job!   I'm doing well at picking off their larger troop transports.   We get a few hits in on Singapore, but most planes here are still on training mode to replace losses and repair damaged planes.  The Kido Butai jumps back into action hitting the President Coolaid hard. I know I said I was sending them back for repair, but that was a cunning plan to confuse the spies amongst you! In reality, I remembered I'd ordered a fresh wave of troops in – that's the transport up near Kota Barau – These guys are landing at Mersing and I need to provide support for them!  These guys have moved up as well! Its only taken them a month to march 40 miles!   The battle for Iba continues!   The Manchurian Garrison has been stripped down to near the bone! But that's a good thing.  That's a couple of great ships to sink.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:07
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lenoon posted:I guess an occasional salutary reminder that the grog world is divided into two groups: They're called wehraboos, and can typically be summoned by raising the fact that the Panther and Tiger tanks were at best mixed bags and didn't impress Allied and Soviet forces that encountered them.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:08
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Belisarius6 posted:I was (and still am) a serious student of military history, with a special interest in the Eastern Front in WWII. There's lots of corroborating evidence supporting the German claim that their attack on the Soviet Union was a necessary preemptive strike. The best, most complete, argument defending this possibility, in my opinion, is presented in a very readable book titled "Icebreaker" by a Russian historian who calls himself 'Suvorov. You can download the PDF copy of the book at http://justice4germans.com/2012/11/11/who-started-world-war-ii-the-answer-is-not-as-simple-as-we-have-been-led-to-believe/ What the gently caress.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:09
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I hope we all learnt a valuable lesson about what happens when you derail the thread.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:11
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Are those Vals bombing the liners with SAP or GP bombs?
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Jan 9, 2016 18:17
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I'm appreciative of the buy avatar button.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:22
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StealthArcher posted:I'm appreciative of the buy avatar button. It's spelt cum just fyi
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Jan 9, 2016 18:23
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Splode posted:It's spelt cum just fyi I'm skirting it pretty hard.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:25
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Dude only joins today and after 2 posts gets red text of shame and accompanying avatar. A forum record?
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Jan 9, 2016 18:26
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Splode posted:let me be the first to say I saw "justice for germans dot come" and The biggest problem with the ignorant is that they don't realize that they're ignorant. The website is for "Justice" for "Germans" - not Nazis. My father was a Lancaster pilot in WWII and let's just say that he didn't think that there was much real difference in morals between the leadership of any of the warring nations. So rather than sticking your fingers into your ears and chanting out loud why not just go directly to the "Icebreaker" PDF link as suggested rather than browsing in a site which clearly challenges your deeply entrenched world-view paradigms. P.S. For those who are interested in learning more about the whys and wherefores of World War II which is only now starting to come out as previously highly classified information is now slowly being released to historians you might be interested in reading Pat Buchanan's book "Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War". I thought it was brilliant.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:27
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team overhead smash posted:Dude only joins today and after 2 posts gets red text of shame and accompanying avatar. A forum record? Whoever posted this LP on the matrix forums deserves a stern talking to. ANYWAY Imagine my shame when I looked up my lucky ship, the I-8, and realised it was infamous for committing a bunch of war crimes. I only picked it because I thought a sub with a scout plane was dumb and cool 
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Jan 9, 2016 18:27
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Belisarius6 posted:So rather than sticking your fingers into your ears and chanting out loud why not just go directly to the "Icebreaker" PDF link as suggested rather than browsing in a site which clearly challenges your deeply entrenched world-view paradigms. loving lol. loving. LoL. Hi Hitler.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:29
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StealthArcher posted:loving lol. Just a troll. Put him on ignore and move on.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:30
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Hahaha it's a shame Ensign Expendable isn't here, he'd probably get a kick out of someone attempting to seriously cite that discredited hack Suvorov. Please forward the paper which discredits Suvorov's thesis. I'd be interested in reading it.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:35
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Grey Hunter posted:The Kido Butai jumps back into action hitting the President Coolaid hard. I know I said I was sending them back for repair, but that was a cunning plan to confuse the spies amongst you! In reality, I remembered I'd ordered a fresh wave of troops in – that's the transport up near Kota Barau – These guys are landing at Mersing and I need to provide support for them! Misspelling aside, that's a 21 000 ton liner. Good on you, Grey!
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Jan 9, 2016 18:39
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Welp, lasted a little over a month.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:49
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Hey people, I've just been reading an article by this Lyndon LaRouche guy. He has some really amazing things to say about World leaders and shape shifting Alien Lizards that conventional sources are to afraid to tell us I'll do a 10,000 word effort post about it later, so you can all look forward to that!
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Jan 9, 2016 18:52
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It's a different kind of warcrimes chat, but it's not entirely unexpected.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:59
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Cythereal posted:Just a troll. Put him on ignore and move on. I'm stunned at the reaction I've received for my link to Suvorov's "Icebreaker". The only reason I used the "Justice4Germans" website was because my Google search showed it had the book available online. I never stated support for Nazism - in fact I immediately followed up my first comment with a statement that Hitler was going to attack the Soviet Union regardless of any provocation or threat. Yet forum participants are all over me for being a Nazi sympathizer. Someone changed my avatar, I'm assuming the moderator himself, to a cum covered Iron Cross. What the hell? This is why the U.S. is collapsing before our eyes - nobody's willing to make a serious effort at understanding any viewpoint that differs from their own - even when that viewpoint is, all in all, very much the same.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:02
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goatface posted:It's a different kind of warcrimes chat, but it's not entirely unexpected. Honestly it's a lot better than warcrimes chat, this time we've got schadenfreude and can all have a good laugh instead of warcrimes chat which just leaves us drained and unhappy.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:05
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