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Doesn't he say at some point that it's the latter? (Someone correct me: it's been a while.)Josuke Higashikata posted:They're not Valentines because people would freak the hell out.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:51
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I thought D4C passed on all his memories, but the current consciousness of Valentine still died with his body, kinda like a The Prestige dealio
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Jan 9, 2016 00:51
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when I was in the midst of burning through Part 7, I had imagined that Valentine sat there and talked it out with his alternate reality self who is also an rear end in a top hat who wants to take the napkin/ Jesus Christ's mummified corpse, and that guy came back through after getting passed D4C that makes so much less sense than assuming D4C just copies mainline Valentine over but I feel like that doesn't rule it out all things considered
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Jan 9, 2016 00:56
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A Steampunk Gent posted:I thought D4C passed on all his memories, but the current consciousness of Valentine still died with his body, kinda like a The Prestige dealio Yeah, I'm pretty sure one of the swapped Valentines said something like "Oh, so that's what's going on, guess it's my turn now".
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Jan 9, 2016 01:19
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D4C can hop from user to user (Valentine comes back after losing an ear with a new Valentine, and rather than attack the one missing the ear, Gyro attacks the one with D4C behind it) so it definitely seems to bring memories or consciousness with it and it makes it's new user the SBR Valentine.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:48
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Moltrey posted:Pork Pie Hat Kid was a really weird fight. I choose to believe that all the bears in the area were teleported away by Love Train, mainly because the idea of bears suddenly appearing out of nowhere in random places around the world and loving people up is pretty funny
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Jan 9, 2016 03:17
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Moltrey posted:D4C can hop from user to user (Valentine comes back after losing an ear with a new Valentine, and rather than attack the one missing the ear, Gyro attacks the one with D4C behind it) so it definitely seems to bring memories or consciousness with it and it makes it's new user the SBR Valentine. Yep, the current Valentine knows he's going to die, but he still passes on D4C and his memories without fussing because he's a cold motherfucker. The new Valentine understands the importance of Jesus Christ and does what he has to.
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Jan 9, 2016 03:24
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Yeah the idea is that every Valentine that comes to our world with D4C is a different Valentine, but they're all driven by the same ethos and so they can drop seamlessly from one Valentine's place into another.
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Jan 9, 2016 03:36
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Naerasa posted:Yeah the idea is that every Valentine that comes to our world with D4C is a different Valentine, but they're all driven by the same ethos and so they can drop seamlessly from one Valentine's place into another. Plus they all having the same memories and personality.
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Jan 9, 2016 06:09
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Looking back on it, D4C was a really specific stand.
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Jan 9, 2016 06:26
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D4C is really cool, but it's sudden makeover into not looking like a giant rabbit near the end is weird.
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Jan 9, 2016 07:01
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Moltrey posted:D4C is really cool, but it's sudden makeover into not looking like a giant rabbit near the end is weird. What was its makeover like, I only ever remember it as giant roman rabbit
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Jan 9, 2016 07:04
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Ball Breaker hosed up its ears and it spent a while with just a bald head.
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Jan 9, 2016 07:09
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FirstAidKite posted:What was its makeover like, I only ever remember it as giant roman rabbit  It was de-eared, as momomo said
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Jan 9, 2016 07:11
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Yeah it's a real shame, visually, Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap was one of my favourite Stands when it had the bunny ears.
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Jan 9, 2016 07:16
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I didn't remember it was Ball Breaker that caused it to change, I just thought it was a side effect of getting all the Corpse Parts + Ticket To Ride. You could recolor the new form and pass it off as a whole different Stand, that rabbit form is just too good. A lot of my favorite Stands visually are the main villain Stands. King Crimson being a giant, angry, red punchman with a smaller and angrier face on it's face, Killer Queen being a menacing pink cat. I even like Whitesnake and find it's evolutions to be fun. Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 07:17
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It happens when Valentine was aged. It's a good way of showing how destructive the infinite spin was considering it even affects the appearance of his Stand which is basically just a psychic projection but it was a shame to lose cute D4C. I do like how D4C is pretty inept for a main villain stand once you beat his power. Killer Queen was similar but it could still largely hang, just out classed by SP and CD. D4C gives a real glass cannon impression. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 07:21
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One of my favorite stand moments was when Pucci had Whitesnake just loving pick up a gun and try and shoot them with it.
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Jan 9, 2016 10:58
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D4C doesn't "change form" so much as it just spends the rest of the story damaged - it looks different because Ball Breaker ripped off its outer layer of skin/leather/whatever.
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Jan 9, 2016 13:19
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It's only like that for a few chapters anyway.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:13
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Josuke Higashikata posted:It happens when Valentine was aged. quote:Main villain. Valentine was the hero. 
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Jan 9, 2016 19:39
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Valentine was going to make America great again!
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Jan 9, 2016 21:33
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The Assassination Of Funny Valentine By The Coward Johnny Joestar
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Jan 9, 2016 21:44
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RaspberryCommie posted:Valentine was the hero. Johnny was honestly happy to walk away and call it water under the bridge, the fact that Valentine couldn't accept a good-faith bargain he himself proposed meant Johnny probably saved America from the rule of an invincible, paranoid despot
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Jan 9, 2016 21:47
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Some people hate Valentine because he's not really "a villain" and his goal is just a vague "Make America Great Again Through Jesus" but I dunno, he changed the name of the country to the United States of Valentine and shotguns beer on the reg, so I think he's pretty cool.
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Jan 9, 2016 21:47
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Jan 9, 2016 21:48
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Moltrey posted:Some people hate Valentine because he's not really "a villain" and his goal is just a vague "Make America Great Again Through Jesus" but I dunno, he changed the name of the country to the United States of Valentine and shotguns beer on the reg, so I think he's pretty cool. He is pretty clearly a villain though. He's a man who wants unlimited power but doesn't even come close to having the moral composure to wield it, his dying act if even trying to pass it on the Diego 'DIO' Brando just to spite the man he's repeatedly tried to murder and needlessly double-crossed. The writing is subtler and more nuanced (for JoJo) but there's still clear character motivations and ethical statements, if anything it's pretty clever how the end state of Valentine's plan is represented by AU Diego aiming to use the power of the Saint to go full DIO and rule the US as a psychopathic god-king No Dignity fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 21:57
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Diego, Dio, DIO and DIO Diego did nothing wrong.
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Jan 9, 2016 22:09
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SBR is really loving good
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Jan 9, 2016 22:11
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The napkin speech > the handkerchief speech.
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Jan 9, 2016 22:11
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Valentine was a great character but very unambiguously evil.
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Jan 9, 2016 22:13
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Johnny is a flawed person who is willing to admit as much as reconsider his actions, Valentine's final words are 'I absolutely and categorically regret nothing, I am the good guy' before trying to shoot a man he's just tried to talk into surrendering
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Jan 9, 2016 22:16
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DIO Diego showing up at the eleventh hour is still my favorite moment in all of JoJo, it was such a strong moment when Johnny finally defeats Valentine, shows his conviction and strength by surpassing Gyro after his death and then, when all that's left is winning the race you turn the page and THE WARUDO is there. I don't think there's been a bigger OH gently caress moment in anything else.
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Jan 9, 2016 22:21
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Valentine and Pucci have the same cool thing where neither of them realize they're the villain. They have goals they are so deadset on achieving and are convinced that they will help everyone. I feel it just works for Valentine better cause you have no idea what Pucci is trying to do half the time, and for Valentine, he just wants the Corpse Parts. They're both really fun villains to watch, but I enjoy Valentine for his Stand ability a lot more. i'm actually really not a fan of Alternate Diego and The World. I was spoiled on and knew it was coming, and that probably didn't help, but after the emotional struggle that is fighting Valentine, Diego just feels like UUUUUUUGH, I'm really ready for this end, I just wish his placement in the story was better. Valentine is the final boss, Diego and The World are the postgame boss you need to grind for that you want to fight anyway because you really liked this game, but by the time you fight him, you're just ready to move on. Him getting wrecked when Lucy hands him SBR universe Diego's head is great though.
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Jan 9, 2016 22:27
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:DIO Diego showing up at the eleventh hour is still my favorite moment in all of JoJo, it was such a strong moment when Johnny finally defeats Valentine, shows his conviction and strength by surpassing Gyro after his death and then, when all that's left is winning the race you turn the page and THE WARUDO is there. I don't think there's been a bigger OH gently caress moment in anything else. there was no better payoff after having voraciously consumed Parts 4-6 after Part 3's anime ended I posted in this thread that I almost yelled when I saw The World
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Jan 9, 2016 22:28
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Moltrey posted:Valentine and Pucci have the same cool thing where neither of them realize they're the villain. They have goals they are so deadset on achieving and are convinced that they will help everyone. I feel it just works for Valentine better cause you have no idea what Pucci is trying to do half the time, and for Valentine, he just wants the Corpse Parts. They're both really fun villains to watch, but I enjoy Valentine for his Stand ability a lot more. I think AU Diego actually works really well into the story. The main theme that drives the protagonists and antagonists in SBR is 'determination' and how far you're willing to go for your beliefs. The Steel Ball Run is this social-darwinist trial by fire which purges the weak and leaves those driven by some burning compulsion, with the prize being the power of god. Gyro from the start has a flaw in his resolution as he's primarily driven by being a nice guy, having entered to save a little boy's life and all. He tries being an edgy anti-hero through the True Man's World, and it sticks for a while, but he ultimately reverts to his true nature as a more moderate and fundamentally decent person than the others around his. This lack of conviction in an incredibly high-stakes winner takes all situation is finally symbolised by the flaw in his ball preventing him from delivering the fatal blow to Valentine in their duel. Johnny, having staked his entire existence and self-worth as a human being on claiming the Corpse Parts, ends up having that extra edge in him which eventually allows him to surpass Gyro. It's made clear this isn't neccessarily a good thing though, with his 'Dark Determination' and willingness to cross moral boundaries and do hosed up poo poo. He still has a spark of humanity in his actions though, such as after the gunfight with Tatoo You where he willingly give up the Corpse Parts for Gyro's life, this is what allows him to be the better man in his showdown with Valentine and shows the potential for him to become a better person. So finally getting round to AU Diego, his appearance at the very end of the story functions as Johnny's Dark Determination taken to their complete conclusion; he's utterly unfettered in his actions and driven by nothing but an overwhelming desire to conquer and dominate, he has such commitment to his actions regardless of cost he unflichingly severs his own leg to achive a decisive victory over Johnny without a moment's hesistation. Despite Diego defeating his nemesis and uncontestably being the strongest fighter in the story, Johnny's actions have given him allies who come to his rescue whereas as Diego's brutal, psychopathic climb to the top have left him utterly alone and he's destroyed by a literal vision of his own fraility and mortality in an empty room. Diego firmly restablishes Johnny's humanity whilst cermenting the story's themes of power as a poison chalice and the internal conflict between compassion and selfishness. No Dignity fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 22:52
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^^^^ put this in the OP or something holy crap
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Jan 9, 2016 23:06
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Continuing on those themes, it makes the differences between Diego and AU Diego interesting. Diego is established as having at least for a while having been raised by his mother and has been exposed to compassion and human decency from a young age, this filters down into his personality as an adult where it's clear he never has the same singleminded drive to rule over others, even his big dreams are owning his own island and being a rich guy, even his sexual assualt of a woman is downright mild comapred to DIO and AU Diego's causal references to rape and his Stand is just a copy of an ability of another forced onto him - he never develops into the burning purpose or disregard for others to manifest The World, which symbolised DIO's will to utterly dominate the world. AU Diego's sharing his Stand with the original DIO suggests his psychology is much closer to his namesake, as does his threat of rape to Lucy, on the other hand I like to think Diego wouldn't have even killed Hot Pants if their plan to assassinate Valentine had gone to plan, you can actually see the faint glimmers of humanity in his actions.
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Jan 9, 2016 23:09
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Diego is still 100% ok with letting wekapipo die though. He didn't feel that one in the slightest
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Jan 9, 2016 23:15
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i didn't either, so maybe diego is onto something there
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Jan 9, 2016 23:16
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