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JohnGalt posted:The daily Venezuela news cycle isn't complete without Jimmy. The courts refuse to recognize anything the assembly does, the assembly refuses to recognize anything the courts do, and the collectivos run wild all the while. Probably. Oh, and Maduro effectively rules by decree as he ignores the assembly and the courts rule that he can. Just thinking worst case scenarios here.
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Jan 8, 2016 07:00
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ComradeCosmobot posted:The courts refuse to recognize anything the assembly does, the assembly refuses to recognize anything the courts do, and the collectivos run wild all the while. Probably. Those aren't worst case scenarios, that's just exactly what's happening right now.
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Jan 8, 2016 07:04
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El Hefe posted:Those aren't worst case scenarios, that's just exactly what's happening right now. Which just goes to show you how badly off Venezuela is right now. It doesn't seem like anything else is going to happen until either Maduro is dumped in 2018, Maduro effectively ends Venezuelan democracy by jailing MUD assembly members until they acknowledge their impotence, or the people take to the streets for something bigger than 2002. Because there's no way the courts allow a recall of Maduro.
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Jan 8, 2016 07:32
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ComradeCosmobot posted:The courts refuse to recognize anything the assembly does, the assembly refuses to recognize anything the courts do, and the collectivos run wild all the while. Probably. Well, Maduro's Habilitante powers already ran out and he can't be granted them again without the support of the assembly, but that's pretty much moot with the rest of the institutions on his side. The military also reiterated their support for the revolution yesterday when the Minister of Defense gave a little speech calling out the new assembly for removing photos of Chavez from the building, which is code for "Did I say I was impartial? Well, let me clarify". The new law granting the Central Bank leave to directly finance the government and the new economy VP are what's keeping me up at night right now, though. Giving a guy who literally doesn't believe in inflation a money printing press is the economic equivalent of handing him a nuke.
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Jan 8, 2016 16:52
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On the one hand, you guys are about to experience Zimbabwe levels of inflation, on the other your going to be getting a new currency in a few months. The question is, which country's?
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Jan 8, 2016 17:52
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Gorau posted:On the one hand, you guys are about to experience Zimbabwe levels of inflation, on the other your going to be getting a new currency in a few months. The question is, which country's? Cuban convertible pesos? 
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Jan 8, 2016 18:09
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I saw footage of that new assembly Maduro set up and it was a sad sight, a bunch of clearly uneducated people who didn't even know how to read, it was all  We are so hosed unless we can get rid of the PSUV this year
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Jan 8, 2016 18:17
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El Hefe posted:I saw footage of that new assembly Maduro set up and it was a sad sight, a bunch of clearly uneducated people who didn't even know how to read, it was all Do you have anything to base your assumption that the communal councils are dumb and illerterate other than their skin color? Sounds similar to white supremacist libel spread about black politicans during reconstruction.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:33
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Do you have anything to base your assumption that the communal councils are dumb and illerterate other than their skin color? Sounds similar to white supremacist libel spread about black politicans during reconstruction. Yeah the fact they can't read a simple text from a piece of paper
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Jan 8, 2016 23:54
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Or that the VP of economy says inflation is not real lmao And this loving idiot still defends these people
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Jan 8, 2016 23:55
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Looks like Henry Ramos Allup isn't all that well beloved by his sugar daddy http://www.telesurtv.net/english/opinion/WikiLeaks-Reveal-What-the-US-Really-Thinks-of-Henry-Ramos-Allup-20160106-0049.html quote:In a document classified as secret by the U.S. Embassy in Caracas, Venezuela, Ambassador William Brownfield had strong words about the newly elected president of Venezuela’s National Assembly, Henry Ramos Allup. “Accion Democratica’s main problem has a name: Henry Ramos Allup," the document reads. Brownfield, who was ambassador to Venezuela from 2004-2007 called Ramos Allup "crude, abrasive, arrogant and thin-skinned“. Not to mention his connections to Venezuela's violent past http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/11799 quote:The future Assembly president currently leads the Democratic Action (AD) party, of which he has been a member for nearly four decades. A key figure during the neoliberal era known as the Fourth Republic, Allup defended the policies of Carlos Andres Perez as a member of congress; policies which created the vastly unequal society which led to the Caracazo riots of 1989, during which thousands of Venezuelan poor were shot by police and disappeared. El Hefe posted:Or that the VP of economy says inflation is not real lmao Borneo Jimmy fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 00:41
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Nice, I'm finally going to experience what it's like to have a crude, abrasive, arrogant, authoritarian and thin-skinned National Assembly president who's part of a corrupt, clientelist political party with anti-democratic intentions. Oh, wait.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:51
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El Hefe posted:Yeah the fact they can't read a simple text from a piece of paper Are you saying black people's DNA makes it impossible for them to read!? ~68% of the Venezuelan electorate tells the PSUV that they're doing a horrendous job governing but he somehow knows better than them.
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Jan 9, 2016 02:55
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Looks like Henry Ramos Allup isn't all that well beloved by his sugar daddy You're not even trying anymore.
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Jan 9, 2016 04:40
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He wasn't really trying in the first place, to be honest.
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Jan 9, 2016 04:49
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So if elections no longer matter because the PSUV will just ignore the results and continue to occupy the state, surely the only remaining option is revolution?
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Jan 9, 2016 05:59
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Chuck Boone posted:~68% of the Venezuelan electorate tells the PSUV that they're doing a horrendous job governing but he somehow knows better than them. hypnorotic posted:So if elections no longer matter because the PSUV will just ignore the results and continue to occupy the state, surely the only remaining option is revolution? The opposition has a long tradition of setting fire to poo poo and killing people when they don't get their way and it usually just fizzles out. If they try something like that again (which I wouldn't put past them) after winning an election they will just look more ridiculous. Borneo Jimmy fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 06:08
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Yes I'm aware fascism does well at the polls during times of economic turmoil. You must have missed the memo, facism lost at the polls.
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Jan 9, 2016 09:53
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Yes I'm aware fascism does well at the polls during times of economic turmoil. It doesn't matter who dies, Jimmy; what matters is whether a process was followed for the institutions which undertook the acts of killings which is representative of a broad base of stakeholders and reflective of the current will of the people, or whether those acts can be undertaken from the authorization of one individual. We call the later 'Stalinism,' you South American tankie. The National Assembly has few options, none of which are 'good.' The best they can do is empower friendly politicians outside Caraccas with the tools necessary to resist implementation of Maduro's unconstitutional executive fiat. Are there any good maps of population and resource distribution in Venezuela? Wealth permitting, it may be best for certain border regions to organize for a restoration of constitutional democracy should the national assembly call upon the peoples and institutions of Venezuela to defend the constitution against PSUV.
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Jan 10, 2016 01:21
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I found Borneo Jimmy posting in his native habitat and I'm 100% sure he's just a bad troll.
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Jan 11, 2016 01:55
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To no one's surprise, the Supreme Court ruled as it was told, i.e. that any acts by the new Assembly will be null since they swore in the deputies from Amazonas. Initial response from the MUD boils down to "gently caress off, you can't tell us what to do."
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Jan 12, 2016 00:28
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Remember that (I think it's 2 or 3) of the 13 magistrates the PSUV rushed to assign in late December went to the Sala Electoral, the same that issued this ruling. The ruling says that the it will stand until the three deputies step down, which would of course mean that the MUD would lose the 2/3 majority. El Nacional has a nice article on why this whole deal is nothing more than a PSUV attempt to subvert democracy in order to protect itself. The two main points:
In other words, if the TSJ and the PSUV really want to go after these three deputies, they have legal avenues through which to do so. These involve stripping them of parliamentary immunity first and foremost, which only the National Assembly can do. EDIT: Earlier today, the National Assembly had received the amnesty law project, and it had also set up a special committee to investigate the irregularities that occurred with the appointment process of the 13 TSJ magistrates Simon Calzadilla, the second vice-president of the National Assembly, was asked by the media what would happen when the National Assembly ignored the TSJ decision, as he says it will. Calzadilla said: quote:Absolutely nothing. Unless there's a coup d'etat and they send a battalion to break [the National Assembly] up. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jan 12, 2016 |
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Jan 12, 2016 00:49
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AN just needs to modify the LOTSJ and assign new Magistrates to the TSJ that outnumber the PSUV ones. Easy as pie. Use Chavista laws against them.
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Jan 12, 2016 01:30
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CalmDownMate posted:AN just needs to modify the LOTSJ and assign new Magistrates to the TSJ that outnumber the PSUV ones. That's the plan, and the PSUV knows it. Hence today's decision: either give up the 2/3 majority you won fair and square (and the ability to bring about the most important, meaningful change, such as a reform of the Ley Organica del Tribunal Supremo de Justicia or the drafting of a new one) or nothing you do will be "legal". It's absurd how stupid the PSUV think people are. 5 weeks ago you couldn't go five minutes without some PSUV big cheese talking about how the people's vote was sacred, how the electoral system was the best in the world, etc., and here we are today. It's easy to see why so many PSUV supporters have turned against the party. Hardly anything Maduro and company say is grounded in any kind of objective reality.
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Jan 12, 2016 01:46
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Now that the PSUV is in open sedition against the first legitimately elected government of Venezuela in 17 years, it's time to just round them up and kill them in an orderly fashion instead of doing so at the end of a protracted and destructive civil war. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 12, 2016 01:59
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There isnt going to be a civil war don't be stupid.
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Jan 12, 2016 02:06
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M. Discordia is as dumb as Borneo Jimmy but as long as both keep posting here we need the counterbalance.
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Jan 12, 2016 02:12
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Kavak posted:M. Discordia is as dumb as Borneo Jimmy but as long as both keep posting here we need the counterbalance.  I just skimmed his post history and I counted at least seven times where he called for murdering Maduro/communists/PSUV, and that's not even counting all the dark references to the necessity of a rightwing counter-revolution. Is this kind of violent mania typical of Venezuelan politics? Jesus Christ
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Jan 12, 2016 02:59
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As far as I'm aware M Discordia is either American or British and he's been as, shall we say, vehement against leftists since the early Bush administration. The actual Venezuelans and dudes with Venezuelan relatives in this thread are way more chill even when they're the ones dodging muggings.
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Jan 12, 2016 03:12
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We are facing a very direct power struggle here. The TSJ cannot go over the National Assembly nor the CNE, there is a separation of powers for a reason, and due to the fact that the magistrates were elected in a process filled with irregularities, we are now in a game of "who's illegal", the AN will claim the TSJ was formed illegally due to not obeying the Organic Law of the TSJ, the TSJ will claim that the AN was also formed illegally by swearing in the Amazonas deputies under dispute. The AN can't be disolved by any other power, and any modifications to the Organic Law of the TSJ will just be declared null and void by itself, thus, a deadlock, the best possible scenario for PSUVistas right now as they just don't have the people behind them. The losing side is clear though, if this goes for too long Maduro's inefficacy will become even more apparent as nothing is being done due to the political deadlock, thus costing him whatever remains of his acceptance rate, and allowing for his impeachment through referendum, which, considering that he completes half of his term in March, is a lot closer than most think. There will be no civil war, the military ain't that loving stupid, and I'm a Venezuelan student of the UCV so believe me I don't exactly have kind regards for the military. Nobody's going to die for loving Maduro, well, maybe a couple of radicals, but nothing that the military won't directly squash. Now if you truly want to hear bad news, Venezuelan oil is currently at under USD$25 a barrel. Notably, Maduro affirmed last year that so long as oil prices were above $40 everything would be fine and dandy, so yeah go figure how the gently caress they're going to pay for half the poo poo they already owe. fnox fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Jan 12, 2016 |
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Jan 12, 2016 04:33
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fishmech posted:As far as I'm aware M Discordia is either American or British and he's been as, shall we say, vehement against leftists since the early Bush administration. Yeah, there are a few nutcases around that do claim for civil revolt and armed revolution, but most of us want things to get better as peacefully as possible. Any venezuelan has had his share of violence and fear and won't advocate for more. Not to mention a fuckton of us have migrated, and no one wants their family going trough something like that. I've got my mom alone there, my wife has both her parents, my best friend has his grandma. Why would we wish for a civil war that would make things even harder for them? If things are at "peace" now, and they can't find proteins and hygiene products, how bad can it get when there's an actual violent revolution? Not to mention that anyone smart enough knows that seizing the government trough any means other that lawful and constitutional would just give the PSUV more arguments. We not only want to see them out, we want the whole world to understand our position and, hopefully, help us bring the PSUV officials to justice for all their crimes once they run from the country with all the money they can carry.
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Jan 12, 2016 09:41
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To me, what really highlights the degree of insanity of this entire situation is how bold-faced it is: one of the new express magistrates of the Supreme Court was a chavista candidate who lost an election days before, many of them don't even fulfill the academic criteria needed to apply for their posts, Diosdado (who is supposed to be a simple assembly member now, with no other post in government) talks to reporters as if he were the owner of the country "We'll simply not give the assembly any money and disregard any laws they pass." and the kicker, since they don't recognize the assembly, they're asking the Supreme Court to act as a legislative body in their stead.
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Jan 12, 2016 17:06
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Austerity is inevitable with oil prices this low, but the PSUV can say everything is fine and print monopoly money and blame the imperialists for making the money worthless in the first place.
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Jan 12, 2016 17:24
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hypnorotic posted:Austerity is inevitable with oil prices this low, but the PSUV can say everything is fine and print monopoly money and blame the imperialists for making the money worthless in the first place. This is literally what the head of the country's economy, Luis Salas, believes: quote:Inflation doesn't exist in real life. When someone goes to a store and she sees that prices have gone up, she's not witnessing "inflation". In reality, what she's witnessing is only that: an increase in prices, a problem to which inflation presents itself as the only possible explanation both in terms of theory and common sense. However, the reality is that it's only one [theory] and it's not the best one. It presents itself as the only possible one because it comes from the most dominant sector of the economy, so it imposes itself. The National Assembly was supposed to meet today but the session was suspended until tomorrow.
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Jan 12, 2016 17:43
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Labradoodle posted:To me, what really highlights the degree of insanity of this entire situation is how bold-faced it is: one of the new express magistrates of the Supreme Court was a chavista candidate who lost an election days before, many of them don't even fulfill the academic criteria needed to apply for their posts, Diosdado (who is supposed to be a simple assembly member now, with no other post in government) talks to reporters as if he were the owner of the country "We'll simply not give the assembly any money and disregard any laws they pass." and the kicker, since they don't recognize the assembly, they're asking the Supreme Court to act as a legislative body in their stead. One of the magistrates voted for himself. There are constitutional grounds to declare that the TSJ was formed illegally, disobeying the Organic Law. Problem is, they are the ultimate interpretation of the law, and the government, who controls all other powers is responsible for executing it, thus they can do with it whatever they want. There is currently a deadlock that is impossible to break, legally. The TSJ cannot go over the AN, and the AN cannot remove magistrates without intervention from other powers. The only solutions to this are, either the government gives in and allows the AN to exist and legislate, or the government declares that it will not respond to the AN and thus become a pretty well established dictatorship, or there is a coup of some sort that results in the removal of Nicolas Maduro. No effective economic measures will take place until the deadlock is resolved.
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Jan 12, 2016 17:52
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Last night, National Assembly President Henry Ramos Allup spoke on CNN en Espanol and said that the three MUD deputies from Amazonas who are at the centre of the storm had told him that they were going to step down from their posts so that the National Assembly could continue to exist. The National Assembly is holding a session now, and they've just agreed to accept the deputies' resignation. If everything goes through the way it's intended, it would mean that the MUD would lose the 2/3 majority in the legislature, but it would be taking a step back from the precipice as as TSJ decision declaring all of their acts null would be lifted. That would mean that Maduro would have to rendir memoria y cuentas [not sure what the translation of that is in English - it's similar to the U.S. State of the Union address] on Friday before the National Assembly, which will be very interesting to watch. Although, this is the PSUV we're dealing with, so anything is possible.
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Jan 13, 2016 17:03
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The quorum should not continue being 167 if there are 4 deputies removed, it should either be 163, in which case the opposition continues having 2/3rds of the assembly with 109 deputies, or the previous 4 deputies from Amazonas should take their place, in which case the opposition also continues having 2/3rds with 111 deputies. The 2/3rds majority has not yet been lost.
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Jan 13, 2016 17:30
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fnox posted:The quorum should not continue being 167 if there are 4 deputies removed, it should either be 163, in which case the opposition continues having 2/3rds of the assembly with 109 deputies, or the previous 4 deputies from Amazonas should take their place, in which case the opposition also continues having 2/3rds with 111 deputies. This is an interesting point, and I just heard Allup making it in a clip I saw of his interview on CNN en Espanol last night. He argued your first point - that with 4 less deputies, the quorum is now 163, of which the MUD has 109 seats. I'm sure the PSUV is going to throw a fit over this and I can't wait to read the TSJ's next decision on that matter. Also, first lady (and now deputy) Cilia Flores acknowledged her nephews' arrest in Haiti last year for allegedly trying to smuggle 800 kilograms of cocaine into the United States for the first time yesterday. She sort of danced around the issue, but her argument is that the DEA kidnapped her nephews in an attempt to sabotage her run for the National Assembly. This is part of what she said: quote:We’d been waiting to get more information. What we do know for sure is that the DEA was inside Venezuelan territory here attacking our sovereignty and committing crimes inside our territory (…) the DEA committed the crime of kidnapping, which the defense will prove. We have evidence; we have pictures of the DEA agents who carried out this kidnapping, this act of revenge. I'm not sure why she's going on about the DEA invading Venezuela and kidnapping her nephews there because they were picked up in Haiti. It probably has something to do with the fact that she's making all of that up and it's just nonsense.
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Jan 13, 2016 17:41
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Chuck Boone posted:This is an interesting point, and I just heard Allup making it in a clip I saw of his interview on CNN en Espanol last night. He argued your first point - that with 4 less deputies, the quorum is now 163, of which the MUD has 109 seats. It's the only thing that makes sense, which really ultimately means that PSUV's whining is pointless as it doesn't turns things in their favor. There cannot be any empty seats on the National Assembly.
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Jan 13, 2016 18:06
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quote:El Gobierno de Venezuela decretó este viernes el "estado de emergencia económica" en todo el territorio nacional de conformidad con la Constitución, por un lapso de 60 días, según publicó la Gaceta Oficial. Welp.
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Jan 15, 2016 18:59
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