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Geniasis posted:I object to the lesbian romance because Chloe is a terrible person. By the end of the game, even she knows that and tells Max to go back in time and kill her.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:28
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Accordion Man posted:She was actually developing into not being a horrible person, but then the last episode happened and lol. Max x Nathan 4 ever!
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Jan 8, 2016 00:30
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Geniasis posted:Max x Nathan 4 ever! The only interaction I ever wanted with my Max and Nathan was her foot descending on his face, forever. Even after his phone call, fuuuuuuuuuuuck 'em.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:37
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Subyng posted:every depiction of homosexual relationships in games are between two women Objectively false and becoming more false every year, though.
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Jan 8, 2016 01:42
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Geniasis posted:Max x Nathan 4 ever! You joke, but... (warning: link may contain NSFW content based entirely on the phase of the moon and circumstances beyond my control) Plom Bar fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 01:47
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precision posted:Objectively false and becoming more false every year, though. I can't think of any games that specifically have gay male characters as a focus of the narrative. There are things like the bioware rpgs where you can play as a gay man if you want to, but since gender and sexuality are entirely variable in those games it's not quite the same. Although I would love to know of any such games, if they exist. When I think of games with gay characters as a focus there's basically Gone Home, and this one. And even LiS arguably suffers from the same caveat as the bioware games, in that you can play it straight (hah) if you want.
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Jan 8, 2016 02:07
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My Ex-Boyfriend The Space Tyrant is a game that exists.
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Jan 8, 2016 02:17
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BobTheJanitor posted:I can't think of any games that specifically have gay male characters as a focus of the narrative. That's not what I was responding to, I was responding to the statement that video games only ever have lesbians period. The Bioware RPGs you bring up even have specifically gay men now (Cortez in 3, Dorian in Inquisition). As far as games where gay men are prominent: quote:In the story mode of the 2015 game Mortal Kombat X, there is a conversation between Kung Jin and Raiden, during which the former is apprehensive of the Shaolin accepting him. Raiden encourages him by saying, "They care only about what is in your heart. Not whom your heart desires." Also when beginning a fight with the DLC character Tanya he says "You face the shaolin." To which she replies "Quite a handsome one." Kung Jin's response to this is "Barking up the wrong tree sister." After speculation by fans of Kung Jin's sexuality, the game's cinematic director confirmed that the new kombatant is indeed gay.
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Jan 8, 2016 02:19
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To be fair there's not a lot of lesbian focused games to be begin with, though its a true point that there tend to be more lesbian characters than gay ones, especially gay characters that aren't embarrassing stereotypes. Arcade in New Vegas and Duncan in Shadowrun HK are good examples off the top of my head.
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Jan 8, 2016 02:20
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I never got the vibe that either Chloe or Max were exclusively gay. Chloe is at least bi, that we know from Joyce's dialogue about her having boys over, and Max is just...confused.
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Jan 8, 2016 02:29
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Most gay and straight people aren't "exclusively" gay or straight, especially during teen years. Chloe having boys over doesn't mean she liked boys necessarily, it just means she was trying stuff out. You know, like teenagers do. Imagine a link here to one of those studies about how 75% of "straight" men have had a homosexual experience in their early life.
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Jan 8, 2016 02:34
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More evidence in favour of Life is Strange as an allegory for struggle between youthful freedom (naivety) and acceptance of change (maturity): Max Caulfield = Holden Caulfield from Catcher in the Rye. The themes are the same. Both stage a dramatic conflict between the naive, hopeful (self-destructive) purity of youthful idealism vs. the cynical, confusing, hypocritical compromises of society. I first thought Mr. Jefferson's big serial killer 'reveal' was a tacked on and lovely addition to the plot. But he is actually a really cool and integral part of what the game is trying to say. In saving Chloe, Max refuses to grow up. She clings to her innocence. She does not want to accept the necessity of change. What are the worldly consequences? With Chloe saved, Nathan is not arrested, Mr. Jefferson's cover is preserved, and Max inevitably falls into Jefferson's hands. Which is no coincidence. What does Jefferson want? To capture, more specifically, to 'freeze' Max's innocence, into photographs -- 'moments in time' that will be preserved forever. All timelines where Chloe is saved converge in the Dark Room. The Dark Room is a reversed mirror of Maxs own desire. The negative side of Max's innocent drive for stasis: which is death. Not just the death of Chloe, or the town, but the (literal or figurative) destruction of anyone who refuses to change. In the crazy time nightmare in e5 Max can even say to Jefferson that the Dark Room is more properly 'theirs' -- which is exactly right. Which is the 'proper' ending? It is a real mistake to scrutinize the mechanics of time travel here beyond how they are utilized to get these broader issues across; the time travel is just a plot mechanism. I think Life is Strange does really does want you to disapprove of Maxs way of thinking. Max can only learn something about the actual world human beings live in if she accepts the necessary fact that the people she loves have to die. You can say 'gently caress you' to this and have Max and Chloe hit the road like the Beats and Thelma and Louise (the archetypal romance of the American frontier) with the ruins of Arcadia Bay trailing off in the distance. But this is a fantasy. Perhaps the oldest fantasy of American life. You can have your fantasy but the game says gently caress you right back. Its pretty cool.
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Jan 8, 2016 03:32
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Plom Bar posted:My Ex-Boyfriend The Space Tyrant is a game that exists. Yeah, I thought of listing it but it just barely counts. Its all time peak players on steamcharts is 11 people, so it's not exactly mainstream. I mean, I know that's not the only metric, but it's probably their main sales outlet. Also it kind of looks like 'my first adventure game.' It may be great, and I've had it on my to-buy list for a while, but when sales roll around it just never seems that interesting.  Besides, what I'm more thinking of would be a game like LiS or Gone Home (sorry to rehash, but I don't really have any other examples) that are not specifically 'gay games' as it were. Gone Home is basically an awkward teenage love story, and also the characters are gay. LiS is a high school hipster time travel bad-ending-simulator and also the characters could possibly be gay, or maybe not depending on how you play it. precision posted:As far as games where gay men are prominent: And this list is interesting, but really it seems to come down to a lot of side characters, or a lot of 'heavily implied to be...' nonsense. Although I didn't know about Dreamfall. Need to finish that series one of these days. But none of this is really a gay main character in a game, as far as I can tell. I think the industry is just too scared to go down that road quite yet.
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Jan 8, 2016 03:54
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what makes a game gay
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Jan 8, 2016 04:02
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Just finished this after a Steam Sale binge, it's a great game right up until that stinker of a 5th chapter. Really sad to see it fall into the, now ancient, Max Payne 1 trap of long drawn out nightmare filled to the brim with annoyingly lovely puzzles. The Jefferson stuff also felt really contrived, like they wanted to jam in a twist just for the sake of having one (maybe they thought it would drive sales of the final chapters idk). The ending was also simultaneously really unsatisfying and lazy (both from a narrative and gameplay standpoint). To me the very first vision of the tornado you have is literally the tutorial opening of the game while you're passed out (?) at your desk in class. You clearly see the tornado destroying the town with you all alone up at the lighthouse, spared from the destruction. You get this is going to happen despite never having used your powers at all, and indeed aren't even aware you possess them yet, so I really don't see how your use of them causes that lame Lost-style 'unexplained spooky event' crap. The fact that all the other lead-ups were just as nonsensical and seemingly unconnected to anything you did just kinda proves that to me. The whole game just seemed like you getting a chance to save at least one other person from a fate that seemingly had already been spelled out for the area. Hell in the one photoflashback you start out in the same classroom, text David that Jefferson is a serial killer, and then I don't think you ever use your powers ever again (as you have no reason to). Hell, that same scenario has the destruction happening to Arcadia Bay and you aren't even there. Therefore it doesn't make any sense that another photoflashback in which you don't use your powers gets you a different fate. The whole thing felt really tacked on, and makes it seem like the devs just ran out of money or something. Also the setting was pretty clear that the devs didn't really know Oregon all that well. We have no fireflies, cockroaches, really recreational beaches, and the town just looked all wrong (especially for a coastal town). Stupid little details but they were enough to make me go 'haha what' every now and again :/ Prokhor Zakharov fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 04:11
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Just finished this after a Steam Sale binge, it's a great game right up until that stinker of a 5th chapter. Really sad to see it fall into the, now ancient, Max Payne 1 trap of long drawn out nightmare filled to the brim with annoyingly lovely puzzles. I just finished it as well. I feel that that this was a game about time travel and well... time travel is hosed up. The tornado in the beginning was happening in her timeline because she had her powers, chole had to die... without her dieing there was some disruptions in the universe and until that it was corrected it would keep repeating until it is corrected, or time is able to fix itself (by destroying the town). Yeah it's a copout but I feel like it ended exactly like what I expected it to end
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Jan 10, 2016 10:35
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:dia Bay and you aren't even there. Therefore it doesn't make any sense that another photoflashback in which you don't use your powers gets you a different fate.[/spoiler] They literally did run out of money one of the devs posted about it, the ending seems rushed and pieced together because it is. On the bright side it seems like some of the writing problems were the classic modern adventure game problem of head writer gets moved to work on season 2. Plus if loving Homefront can get a sequel we're definitely getting one of an actual well selling new IP.
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Jan 10, 2016 22:19
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The new Homefront isn't a sequel, it's just taking the general premise and making it from scratch with totally new developers.
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Jan 11, 2016 09:25
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It's still using the Homefront name despite the first game being a dismal failure.
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Jan 11, 2016 09:32
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...the point was it's not a good example to use if hoping for a sequel. The original Homefront destroyed the developer and the new one has also been a disaster with an ever-delayed release date.
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Jan 11, 2016 09:40
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Reverse Centaur posted:...the point was it's not a good example to use if hoping for a sequel. The original Homefront destroyed the developer and the new one has also been a disaster with an ever-delayed release date. I kind of think it still is but square enix has definitely made some questionable sequels anyways so it's a still a solid point
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Jan 11, 2016 11:44
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Question for teh people who sacrificed chloe.... did u ever loved anybody in you're life?
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Jan 15, 2016 05:54
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i am a soulless automaton incapable of love, and sacrificed the town
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Jan 15, 2016 05:59
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From the Steam thread:Accordion Man posted:Its strongly established that it was the Prescott family that was causing and knew about the storm I don't why they completely threw that out because they built it up pretty heavily, and I don't think a lack of time or money is a good excuse. What do you mean? Being rich doesn't mean you have the ability to summon tornados, eclipses and double moons. I don't remember a single thing connecting the Prescotts to the weather getting all wacky in the game. Did I miss something that hinted at this?
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Jan 15, 2016 17:05
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ymgve posted:What do you mean? Being rich doesn't mean you have the ability to summon tornados, eclipses and double moons. I don't remember a single thing connecting the Prescotts to the weather getting all wacky in the game. Did I miss something that hinted at this? They kind of had a thing for building tornado shelters all over an area that never gets tornados. Other than that I dunno,
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Jan 15, 2016 17:16
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ymgve posted:From the Steam thread: Yeah I didn't get that at all. I understood it that they were building luxury housing for an area that's economically depressed, therefore driving the current residents out since they can't afford the market..... probably got the idea from the current situation in San Fran if I had to guess.
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Jan 15, 2016 17:22
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ymgve posted:From the Steam thread: 1: The Vortex Club is strongly hinted to have some ties with it. The name itself, the End of the World Party, and that Sean is actually determined to maintain its existence, like it actually has some significant importance. The ending just makes the Vortex Club a place where the rich kids get drunk and high, which doesn't make sense why Sean would care so much about it, especially because I don't think he would want to give Nathan any opportunity to make even more of a fool of himself and keep ruining the family name. 2: The theme of the Prescotts' causing the town's economic, natural, and spiritual decay is brought up several times. The Prescotts seek to control the town with their housing project, and their influence has driven away the fish and whales, once the lifeblood of the town. Spirit animals actually exist and a few characters question what nature will do in response to the town's decay. It all really hints that probably the original idea was the Max was chosen by the powers that be of the natural order to save the town from the Prescott's corruption of it by giving her time powers. 3: The existence of the bomb shelter. The final episode makes its existence utterly nonsensical, because somehow Nathan had a huge bunker built with his dad's money right under his nose. Its clear that the original idea was Sean had it built himself so the Prescotts could survive the storm he knew was coming. One of the notes Sean wrote Nathan (I think it might have been the barn, if not it's Nathan's dorm) is all about Sean warning Nathan that Arcadia Bay is about to receive "an enema" soon and that he should be ready. I think there's an even another paper in the barn that reveals that the Prescott Estates are being built father inland too, in a place safe from storms. 4: Nathan was originally going to know about the storm coming and he warns Max. Its one of his lines in of the later episode previews. This was cut. Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 18:19
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also I maintain that the vision Max got about the tornado came before she got her powers and the way the narrative is constructed in that first episode it only feels logical to assume you were given the powers to try and stop that event from happening, not "NEVER USE THESE MAGICAL POWERS YOU JUST RECEIVED FOR SOME REASON. you have just been given a gift DONT USE IT!!! NEVER EVER USE IT!!!" the latter I think would have only made sense if they had written an additional ending into episode 1 where you just let Chloe die like in the final episode but I'm pretty sure you have no choice but to use your powers in that situation? i'm sorry game but Spec Ops the Line you are not The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 18:37
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Not to mention that DONTNOD clearly don't know what butterfly effect and chaos theory even mean, because the game uses them both to justify that fate is real and immutable, but both ideas run contrary to fate, i.e. both are about how time is extremely malleable and how the slightest change can have massive consequences. Its really obvious that they pulled it all out of their rear end at the last second and they used Warren as a mouthpiece. Not to mention making fate an all powerful force goes completely in the face of the game's earlier themes of understanding people and being able to affect change for the better for the people around you thanks to said empathy.
Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 18:43
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Accordion Man posted:they used Warren as a mouthpiece This was the worst part of the game for me in terms of just feeling sloppy and hamfisted.
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Jan 15, 2016 18:55
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And 94% of you assholes hugged/kissed him for it. 
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Jan 15, 2016 19:04
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another instance of him being a mouthpiece
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Jan 15, 2016 19:15
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Many pages ago, but I have to agree that the Mr. Jefferson twist was the weakest part of the game. Mainly because at the end of episode 1 I was like 95% certain that it was going to happen. It also feels a bit like DONTNOD wanted to include a singular identifiable "bad guy" since all the other "bad" people were arguably just victims themselves. No sir, I didn't like it.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:36
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Accordion Man posted:Not to mention that DONTNOD clearly don't know what butterfly effect and chaos theory even mean, because the game uses them both to justify that fate is real and immutable, but both ideas run contrary to fate, i.e. both are about how time is extremely malleable and how the slightest change can have massive consequences. Its really obvious that they pulled it all out of their rear end at the last second and they used Warren as a mouthpiece. Not to mention making fate an all powerful force goes completely in the face of the game's earlier themes of understanding people and being able to affect change for the better for the people around you thanks to said empathy. While I agree with most of your criticism here (ie. the Devs seem to be invoking an explanation they don't know much about), it's important to note fate/determinism and chaos theory are not mutually exclusive. A system can be both very unpredictable to a casual observer while still being strictly deterministic- consider those simple 'life' games (You know the ones, small pixel grids that turn individual pixels on or off based on the state of neighbouring pixels, and continue the process) and how starting conditions dramatically alter the outcomes. Despite their names, Chaos Theory does not invoke randomness at all. It merely emphasize the idea that changing inputs, even seemingly small changes, alters outcomes; often in very counterintuitive and hard to predict ways particularly over longer periods of time.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:47
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Plom Bar posted:And 94% of you assholes hugged/kissed him for it. Hey gently caress you buddy I hugged him cause we were besties and like ape movies or something. (People who kiss Warren are literal subhumans though)
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Jan 18, 2016 15:33
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So after hearing Giant Bomb talk about something in episode 3, I went and started playing this, and god drat is it addictive. There is one real question I have, while the game seems to reward exploration and going back and choosing multiple paths, is this something you have to do? Like reading every possible poster, talk to everyone and exhaust every possible dialog option and so on?
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Jan 19, 2016 00:15
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twistedmentat posted:So after hearing Giant Bomb talk about something in episode 3, I went and started playing this, and god drat is it addictive. There is one real question I have, while the game seems to reward exploration and going back and choosing multiple paths, is this something you have to do? Like reading every possible poster, talk to everyone and exhaust every possible dialog option and so on? Nope you're good
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Jan 19, 2016 00:17
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You don't, but you're not really playing an adventure game unless you do that to be honest.
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Jan 19, 2016 00:20
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twistedmentat posted:So after hearing Giant Bomb talk about something in episode 3, I went and started playing this, and god drat is it addictive. There is one real question I have, while the game seems to reward exploration and going back and choosing multiple paths, is this something you have to do? Like reading every possible poster, talk to everyone and exhaust every possible dialog option and so on? There's a handful of puzzles that benefit from remembering poo poo you've seen, and little bits of worldbuilding and exposition that are cool if you're a big nerd like me. And it helps to know that all the stuff you see is recorded in your journal. But none of it is absolutely critical.
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Jan 19, 2016 00:26
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Glagha posted:Hey gently caress you buddy I hugged him cause we were besties and like ape movies or something. (People who kiss Warren are literal subhumans though) I hugged him because of the badly attempted hug in episode 1 and that "get this right you get a free hug" chemistry thing. It's the proper arc, there is literally no other acceptable answer. precision posted:Many pages ago, but I have to agree that the Mr. Jefferson twist was the weakest part of the game. Mainly because at the end of episode 1 I was like 95% certain that it was going to happen. It also feels a bit like DONTNOD wanted to include a singular identifiable "bad guy" since all the other "bad" people were arguably just victims themselves. I didn't mind the twist, but how it was handled. I remember reading something about how LiS is basically a teen melodrama that crashes headfirst into a silly thriller and I think that's where my problem is. It does both in an emotionally over-the-top fashion while not really tying them together in a satisfactory way. The murder mystery bits and the highschool drama end up as set dressing. The finale is a guided tour through set pieces stitched together from old assets where you are beat over the head with information you already know, attempts at feeeelings, and silly jokes for the fans. Also, for anyone who is into choice-based games starring teen girls and analogue technology, Oxenfree is out and its rad.
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Jan 19, 2016 04:23
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