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teagone posted:The first thing he immediately noticed when we transitioned from ROTS to ANH was how loving old Owen and Beru got, lmao. Subsistence farming life in the desert can't be all that easy on the skin. I'm not surprised that they look like they've been dried and tanned.
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Jan 10, 2016 17:03
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jivjov posted:Subsistence farming life in the desert can't be all that easy on the skin. I'm not surprised that they look like they've been dried and tanned. That was basically my attempt to explain how much they aged, hah, but he wasn't buying it.
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Jan 10, 2016 17:11
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Squinty posted:Furious 7 made $63m opening day in China? That's not a typo? Not a typo. #family Meanwhile, Star Wars: The Force Awakens - slightly better than Terminator: Genisys Furious 7 opened on a Sunday and TFA opened on a Saturday for reasons unknown to me, so TFA is still the biggest Saturday opening.
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Jan 10, 2016 17:13
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homullus posted:I do think Obi-Wan and Anakin love each other, but Obi-Wan loves Anakin like a brother and, since he is charged with teaching, spouts Jedi dogma where he should express fraternal affection. Anakin loved Obi-Wan as a father, but their relationship was poisoned by the interaction of Anakin's insecurity and anger with Obi-Wan's crap teaching. This is all made explicit or heavily implied in Attack of the Clones, if you're specifically watching their relationship. Arguably the best moment in the series is Ewan McGregor's delivery on "you were the chosen one!" - because it's atypical and unexpected. It's a good example of Zizek's 'fragile Absolute': "What is the Absolute? Something that appears to us in fleeting experiences--say, through the gentle smile of a beautiful woman, or even through the warm caring smile of a person who may otherwise seem ugly and rude. In such miraculous but extremely fragile moments, another dimension transpires through our reality. As such, the Absolute is easily corroded; it slips all too easily through our fingers and must be handled as carefully as a butterfly." Fans tend to expect an oatmeal-like consistency to characterization, so they have a lot of trouble with - say - Anakin and Vader being totally different characters, or Yoda the warrior being different from Yoda the pacifist... With Obiwan, the "you were the chosen one!" is his too-late realization that they should never have been 'Master' and 'Apprentice' but brothers. Yet, at the same time, it betrays Obiwan's misunderstanding of the prophecy and his unwillingness to accept responsibility for what went wrong. "You were supposed to destroy the Sith, not join them!" What has this thread shown us about 'supposed-to'? Obiwan's failure as a teacher is partly a result of his rather arrogant belief that the Son of God would naturally favor him and his way of doing things. Obiwan never questions his own assumptions - so, when they do meet later, both characters are in roughly the same conflict: Vader: "The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the master. Obiwan: Only a master of evil, Darth. As a result of the various twists, "when I left you" now clearly refers to the death of Anakin. Vader has learned from Anakin's failure - he admits that Anakin was only a learner - while Obiwan is still stuck in his perception of good versus evil. He concedes that Vader is a master of evil, but then brushes him off - because, again, Obiwan doesn't really understand that God is not on his side. This doesn't mean, like, "they were never friends they hated eachother!", but that their friendship lasted as long as it did because neither character confronted the massive disparity between their viewpoints. This is something Lucas visualizes through the metaphor of the characters as magnets, repelling eachother. They can never really meet.
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Jan 10, 2016 17:49
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Obi-Wan does admit he failed Anakin, even if you argue he doesn't realize the depths to which he did.
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Jan 10, 2016 17:59
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My favourite bit about that scene is the lack of hesitation Vader has in striking him down. As soon as he lets his guard down Vader kills him, kicks his robes to make sure he's dead and then walks off. He no longer has time for Jedi bullshit.
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Jan 10, 2016 18:33
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The best part of the PT is Anakin getting utterly destroyed the second he falls to the darkside. He gets his limbs cut off by his former master, get's lit on fire and covered in burns, is painfully put into a cybernetic suit for the rest of his life and kills his wife. His kids are taken from him too. The darkside is for the weak and Anakin paid for it. He gained nothing and lost everything.
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Jan 10, 2016 18:49
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Guy A. Person posted:Even in the OT their "friendship" is tainted by the fact that Anakin turned evil and murdered a bunch of Jedi and then Obi Wan lied to his son about it. I always read that as the way Obi-Wan reconciled the tragedy with himself. He still wanted to cling to the good memories of his friend, without the stank of Vader all over it. So in his mind he considers them separate people, and this delusion is part of why Yoda wants to shut down some of his suggestions during Empire and RotJ.
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Jan 10, 2016 18:58
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BrianWilly posted:It's the Bioware fan in me but I can't pretend not to be a little disappointed that so much of the Resistance was populated by humans. Anakin's animosity towards Obi-Wan in AOTC boils down to some differences in opinion and him talking himself up in front of Padme. By ROTS, their relationship has to be strained in order for Anakin's turn to make sense. Anakin and Obi-Wan are friends, but the realities of a 2 and a half hour movie prevent you from seeing the majority of the 13 years they spend together.
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Jan 10, 2016 18:59
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The interesting thing is, apparently, really early on Lucas made a list of what "episodes" there'd be of Star Wars and he considered calling the original "episode six" because there'd be a trilogy that was purely about the Clone Wars. It seemed like it was the hint of an idea rather than anything specific, but it is interesting, with that in mind, that he eventually did a whole TV show about the Clone Wars.
Beeez fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jan 10, 2016 |
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Jan 10, 2016 19:22
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What a beautiful movie - so good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPzUXlgBJrU Im so in love with their love.
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Jan 10, 2016 19:38
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How much of a tremendous waste of time was Zam Wessell? "Shape-changing assassin" sounds awesome on paper, but they did absolutely nothing with it.
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Jan 10, 2016 19:42
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Phylodox posted:How much of a tremendous waste of time was Zam Wessell? "Shape-changing assassin" sounds awesome on paper, but they did absolutely nothing with it. But isn't this kind of true of all the movies? The Empire Strikes Back has a weird slug/whale/dinosaur thing that can survive in the vacuum of space but we only see it from the outside for five seconds. Part of the reason it feels like a vast galaxy and why the EU capitalizes on elaborating on every little thing is because even the throwaway ideas are cool. Same with the rathtars.
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Jan 10, 2016 19:44
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Phylodox posted:How much of a tremendous waste of time was Zam Wessell? "Shape-changing assassin" sounds awesome on paper, but they did absolutely nothing with it. Like a great many things in the prequels, Zam Wessel seems like a 'waste' to many because Lucas creates an extremely memorable character with minimal screentime and does not go all EU-style into her backstory or whatever. Because Zam has little involvement in the plot, the entire large scene is dismissed as 'meaningless', when plot-irrelevant information is the most important. As an example of this, Zam is presented as a 'bad Leia', sending a 'bad R2' to kill Padme:  This is one of many scenes that visually links the alien separatist movement to the rebellion from Episodes 4 and 5. We have an 'alien Leia' who was passing for white in order to fit in on Coruscant. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jan 10, 2016 |
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Jan 10, 2016 20:09
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Filthy Casual posted:I always read that as the way Obi-Wan reconciled the tragedy with himself. He still wanted to cling to the good memories of his friend, without the stank of Vader all over it. So in his mind he considers them separate people, and this delusion is part of why Yoda wants to shut down some of his suggestions during Empire and RotJ. I think that's a totally fair reading as well, it just seems weird to me how much people focus the "he was a good friend" line, in a conversation where Obi Wan is already dealing in half truths and manipulation. You find out the "(Vader) betrayed and murdered your father" line is a distorted version of the truth at the end of Empire. You learn the same thing about their "friendship" in Attack of the Clones (and again, technically when his "good friend" tries to kill him in the same movie he said that line, it's shouldn't be a genuine surprise that things weren't all sunshine and roses during their friendship anyway).
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Jan 10, 2016 20:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Like a great many things in the prequels, Zam Wessel seems like a 'waste' to many because Lucas creates an extremely memorable character with minimal screentime and does not go all EU-style into her backstory or whatever. Because Zam has little involvement in the plot, the entire large scene is dismissed as 'meaningless', when plot-irrelevant information is the most important. You have an extremely generous definition of "memorable". And having thematic ties to other, more interesting characters doesn't make a character interesting or worthwhile in and of themselves.
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Jan 10, 2016 20:27
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Even if we take A New Hope as a standalone film, ignoring the later twists, Obiwan is still responsible for training the dude who killed Luke's dad.Phylodox posted:You have an extremely generous definition of "memorable". And having thematic ties to other, more interesting characters doesn't make a character interesting or worthwhile in and of themselves. You said it yourself: the idea of a shape-shifting assassin is "awesome". Your only complaint is that 'they don't do anything with it' - presumably in the sense that the film doesn't become Terminator 2 at that point. But people stealing identities, aliens as representative of racial tensions - and related themes - are all over the film. Zam's 'reveal' when she dies even foreshadows Palpatine's transformation in Episode 3. The basic question is why Zam is trying to kill Padme, and - again - the film doesn't tell you what to think. You're challenged to figure it out. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jan 10, 2016 |
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Jan 10, 2016 20:27
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Vintersorg posted:What a beautiful movie - so good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae1AiFNKFBk
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Jan 10, 2016 20:33
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Auralnauts has a competitor for best PT videos.
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Jan 10, 2016 20:36
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You said it yourself: the idea of a shape-shifting assassin is "awesome". Your only complaint is that 'they don't do anything with it' - presumably in the sense that the film doesn't become Terminator 2 at that point. Again, you're drawing parallels between Zam and other, more developed characters to try and make her seem more interesting. She's not.
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Jan 10, 2016 20:40
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Phylodox posted:Again, you're drawing parallels between Zam and other, more developed characters to try and make her seem more interesting. She's not. Well duh; the character is onscreen for maybe five minutes - just as Dex is onscreen for only two minutes total, but makes a big impression. Leia has 4-5 films of development. Lucas simply does a lot in those five minutes, and repeating "I'm not interested" is a refusal to read not only the entire car chase sequence, but the events surrounding it. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jan 10, 2016 |
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Jan 10, 2016 20:49
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Phylodox posted:Again, you're drawing parallels between Zam and other, more developed characters to try and make her seem more interesting. She's not. She's apparently interesting enough to mention by name.
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Jan 10, 2016 20:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Well duh; the character is onscreen for maybe five minutes - just as Dex is onscreen for only two minutes total, but makes a big impression. Zam is a character who is only really memorable for the opportunities wasted. The actual character, as presented, left almost no impression. The car chase, while ostensibly about Zam, leaves her almost incidental to what's actually going on onscreen.
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Jan 10, 2016 20:56
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It's hilarious that Star Wars pulled the "secret apprentice no one ever knew about!!" thing twice. At least Ahsoka is canon and Galen Marek isn't anymore.
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Jan 10, 2016 20:57
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can we get a reading on this video
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Jan 10, 2016 21:08
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Anakin is so big because he's full of love. Padme less so because she is not. She is full of hate and evil. Hence her beard. The symbol of evil.
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Jan 10, 2016 21:11
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hiddenriverninja posted:It's hilarious that Star Wars pulled the "secret apprentice no one ever knew about!!" thing twice. At least Ahsoka is canon and Galen Marek isn't anymore. Who? What? 
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Jan 10, 2016 21:14
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turtlecrunch posted:Who? What? They don't call 'em secret apprentices for nothing.
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Jan 10, 2016 21:16
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the sterile white aesthetic of the room symbolizes the sterile and emotionless world that surrounds them and their fake baby love His love of padme is his guise to convince himself that he isn't entirely a jedi, that he can still be a normal person: she is his beard. Hence the beard. It's like poetry. I'l go update wookiepedia
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Jan 10, 2016 21:19
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Phylodox posted:How much of a tremendous waste of time was Zam Wessell? "Shape-changing assassin" sounds awesome on paper, but they did absolutely nothing with it. She made a cool toy. She had a awesome looking pistol, an extra googly eyed face, and a removable arm! I bought her the moment I saw her, stoked about her role in the film. The toy also had quick draw action, which meant when you hit the little button, her arm shoots up, pointing the gun at whomever. But they didn't realize that the force of that caused the other arm to fall off. So that was weird. Oddly enough, all the villains being stupid was the biggest disappointment for me when I was a kid. Really tragic. Then she was nothing in the movie.
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Jan 10, 2016 21:28
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It's a bit of a stretch to say Zam was an amazing character that managee to inspire intrigue due to a unique concept. Shapeshifting assassin is about as old a concept as shapeshifting itself, and she doesn't exactly do much with it. The only reason I even know her name is because she showed up in a dece Jango (?) Fett game.
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Jan 10, 2016 21:33
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I played that game. I liked it because you were Jango fett.
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Jan 10, 2016 21:35
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CelticPredator posted:I played that game. I liked it because you were Jango fett. As far as games with jetpacks and flamethrowers go it's pretty high up on the list of good games! You also got to do actual bounty hunting; your scope could I.D. fugitive subjects, their crimes, and whether you needed to capture them dead/alive/either. Zam was a minor character in the game that ends up allied with you by the end, in that context Jango is more of a stone-cold rear end in a top hat for killing her without hesitation after she's subdued in the movie. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jan 10, 2016 |
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Jan 10, 2016 21:51
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CelticPredator posted:The toy also had quick draw action, which meant when you hit the little button, her arm shoots up, pointing the gun at whomever. But they didn't realize that the Force caused the other arm to fall off.
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Jan 10, 2016 21:53
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcZ9kQ1h-ZY
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Jan 10, 2016 21:56
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Lucas isn't super interested in women in general.
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Jan 10, 2016 22:05
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porfiria posted:Lucas isn't super interested in women in general. And oh man does that show up in his writing! Yaws fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jan 10, 2016 |
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Jan 10, 2016 22:24
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In retrospect I am surprised there aren't more trains in Star Wars.
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Jan 10, 2016 22:33
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I wish this GL life theme had been worked into the prequels (maybe if Padme had broken up with Anakin at the beginning of ROTS): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8hQVlRgFlU
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Jan 10, 2016 22:35
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Chewbacca received a medal in the novelization of A New Hope.
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Jan 10, 2016 23:03
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