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SonicRulez posted:That's what this show needs. More Batman parallels. I wish DC had love for their television universe. They would've just green-lit a Batman TV show and we wouldn't have to deal with this from time to time. On the other hand, pissing off die-hard batman fanboys is always a good thing.
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Jan 10, 2016 00:34
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That character doesn't exist anymore.
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Jan 10, 2016 00:42
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Burning_Monk posted:They have pretty similar backgrounds, being ex-military. With a similar personality (compared with JLU). JLU was a good cartoon, but the worst John Stewart. Read Green Lantern Mosaic, and you'll see how loving awful it would be for Diggle to turn out to be John Stewart
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Jan 10, 2016 00:51
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The obvious compromise is for Diggle to not secretly be John Stewart but still become a Green Lantern for maximum confusion and canon related rageposts.
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Jan 10, 2016 02:25
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He must become Green Lantern John Diggle, Steward of the Mosaic.
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Jan 10, 2016 02:35
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I like the fact that this Green Arrow is basically Batman but different because the writers can actually deviate from the character without being beholden to 75 years of covoluted bullshit. I feel like Arrow is the Batman show we would have if Batman wasn't a super popular and well known character and had to be rebooted like Zorro or John Carter or something.
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Jan 10, 2016 05:07
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Kadath posted:I like the fact that this Green Arrow is basically Batman but different I don't. Creative works should strive to be original, rather than near carbon-copies of other, more popular creative works.
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Jan 10, 2016 05:11
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enraged_camel posted:I don't. Creative works should strive to be original, rather than near carbon-copies of other, more popular creative works. This is why I want to see Green Arrow as a far-left radical. Batman is, among other things, a pretty conservative personality. That point of divergence is a good one.
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Jan 10, 2016 05:35
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enraged_camel posted:I don't. Creative works should strive to be original, rather than near carbon-copies of other, more popular creative works. You don't like it but have 4 years of posts about it?
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Jan 10, 2016 05:46
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Aphrodite posted:You don't like it but have 4 years of posts about it? I only started watching at the end of Season 2, and stopped watching mid-season 3 after the writers cured his fatal wound with herbs. Picked it up again this season after everyone else said the show recovered, and it has been decent, but I'm pretty worried about the second half with regards to what they do with Felicity. Besides, when the show originally started, Oliver was noticeably different from Batman. He didn't have problems killing people, for one thing, and that made him what he is really meant to be: a vigilante who truly lives by his own rules. Over time though the writers made him more and more similar to Batman. He became "safer" and more mainstream. They could have differentiated him even more. For example, when he lost control of his company to Ray Palmer, that was a great opportunity to turn him into one of the poors. Imagine if he no longer had access to fancy toys and would have to scavenge (or even loot/steal from the bad guys) to get by and improvise during combat using cheap, everyday tools (remember that the boxing-glove arrow was a crowd favorite in this very thread). Instead, he still seems to have access to a bottomless pit of money, and now he'll have a paraplegic computer genius sidekick. Just like Batman. Slow News Day fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Jan 10, 2016 |
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Jan 10, 2016 06:12
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No, they made him more and more similar to Green Arrow.
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Jan 10, 2016 06:18
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Aphrodite posted:No, they made him more and more similar to Green Arrow. Green Arrow doesn't have an Oracle clone helping him https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Green_Arrow_supporting_characters hth
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Jan 10, 2016 06:23
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Yes he does. (It's Oracle.)
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Jan 10, 2016 06:23
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ctrl-f type "oracle" not on that list sorry dude
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Jan 10, 2016 06:24
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I hope Berlanti reads TVIV and he made Felicity more Oracle-y just to push your buttons.
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Jan 10, 2016 06:41
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enraged_camel posted:I don't. Creative works should strive to be original, rather than near carbon-copies of other, more popular creative works. You left out the part where he said it's so they can deviate in interesting ways from the source. The characters in Watchmen were all clearly derived from existing characters, but used to deconstruct the very idea of superheroes. Whether Arrow is using its similarity to Batman as a crutch or a launching pad is a valid question, though.
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Jan 10, 2016 06:48
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Dude you're sounding like a Batman fan boy. Stuff like this is designed and written in a way to piss off said fan boys.
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Jan 10, 2016 06:51
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Scyantific posted:Dude you're sounding like a Batman fan boy. Stuff like this is designed and written in a way to piss off said fan boys. On the contrary, I don't like Batman. At all. He's pretty boring. Which is why I find it disappointing that Arrow is so similar.
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Jan 10, 2016 07:05
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enraged_camel posted:ctrl-f It's okay though, that list is about comics and this thread is about a TV show. Creative works should strive to be original, rather than near carbon-copies of other, more popular creative works.
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Jan 10, 2016 07:09
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enraged_camel posted:I don't. Creative works should strive to be original, rather than near carbon-copies of other, more popular creative works. This is why you suck at enjoying these shows. Arrow is Batman with the serial numbers filed off. Deal with it.
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Jan 10, 2016 07:38
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enraged_camel posted:On the contrary, I don't like Batman. At all. He's pretty boring. Which is why I find it disappointing that Arrow is so similar. Thats the entire point though. It's basically Batman but you can change things like have his dad commit suicide on a raft and Deathstroke kills his mom in front of his sister, or have the main hero kill the gently caress out of people. You don't get to change the Batman origin like that, it's more or less set in stone. Same with Superman. Everyone knows it and it is boring, so Arrow is a similar character with license to explore new territory.
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Jan 10, 2016 07:48
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Soothing Vapors posted:It's okay though, that list is about comics and this thread is about a TV show. Creative works should strive to be original, rather than near carbon-copies of other, more popular creative works. Oh I know that. I was just responding to Aphrodite's assertion that they're simply trying to make him more similar to Green Arrow (which is patently false). There's three options: a) the writers want to make him his own, distinct character (obviously not true) b) the writers want to make him more like the comics Green Arrow (also not true, since Oracle was never a supporting character of comics Green Arrow) c) the writers don't know what they're doing
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Jan 10, 2016 07:51
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Having Oliver still murdering people while there's a whole Justice League running around would be weird. Nobody likes the Punisher.
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Jan 10, 2016 07:51
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Guys guys... I may hate Oliver, but I love every single one of you. Especially Rhyno, even though he's on my ignore list.
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Jan 10, 2016 07:54
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The Oracle obsession is especially funny because nothing is loving changing except the size of the wheels on her chair. And it's probably temporary as a reference, people. They're not going to make her do every scene going forward, potentially for years, in a wheelchair. She happens to know a guy who created medical nanites, another guy who can make a magic gold gun out of spare parts on a kitchen table, yet another guy who can do magic that brings your soul back from hell, and 2 guys who can alter the state of matter. Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Jan 10, 2016 |
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Jan 10, 2016 07:55
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I don't actually care about the Oracle similarity. I just don't want the inevitable cringe-worthy Oliver-Felicity drama about "Oliver, I'm crippled, you can't marry me like this!" and Oliver going "but Felicity, I still love youuuuu!"
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Jan 10, 2016 07:57
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Aphrodite posted:The Oracle obsession is especially funny because nothing is loving changing except the size of the wheels on her chair. gently caress that I fully expect Felicity to master the science of comic book science and have a fully functional Professor X hoverchair by the end of season 4.
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Jan 10, 2016 07:58
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I fully expect Felicity to lose all of her hair and become a telepath.
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Jan 10, 2016 08:01
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Whizbang posted:I fully expect Felicity to lose all of her hair and become a telepath. Bald Felicity = still hot.
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Jan 10, 2016 08:03
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Rhyno posted:Bald Felicity = still hot. Possibly hotter, superheroes are scifi-adjacent and scifi loves sexy bald chicks.
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Jan 10, 2016 08:14
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This is the CW; it's not permanent.  
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Jan 10, 2016 09:35
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Kadath posted:I like the fact that this Green Arrow is basically Batman but different because the writers can actually deviate from the character without being beholden to 75 years of covoluted bullshit. This would be a solid point if Green Arrow didn't have 75 years of convoluted bullshit. He does too. All comic book characters that are popular have at least a decade of comic books. The benefit of Arrow is that he gets to use Batman's instead of his own. Mostly because his own is still Batman's. I'm glad he's running for mayor and I hope they having him screaming about fascism sooner than later. Oliver Queen is a great character and I'm glad we're seeing more of him. Bruce "Arrow" Wayne just makes me feel like I'm drinking RC Cola instead of Pepsi. Yeah it'll do, but...it's just not the same.
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Jan 10, 2016 16:29
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32MB OF ESRAM posted:Thats the entire point though. It's basically Batman but you can change things like have his dad commit suicide on a raft and Deathstroke kills his mom in front of his sister, or have the main hero kill the gently caress out of people. You don't get to change the Batman origin like that, it's more or less set in stone. Same with Superman. Everyone knows it and it is boring, so Arrow is a similar character with license to explore new territory. Yep this is exactly my point. SonicRulez posted:This would be a solid point if Green Arrow didn't have 75 years of convoluted bullshit. He does too. All comic book characters that are popular have at least a decade of comic books. The benefit of Arrow is that he gets to use Batman's instead of his own. Mostly because his own is still Batman's. I'm glad he's running for mayor and I hope they having him screaming about fascism sooner than later. Oliver Queen is a great character and I'm glad we're seeing more of him. Bruce "Arrow" Wayne just makes me feel like I'm drinking RC Cola instead of Pepsi. Yeah it'll do, but...it's just not the same. The Green Arrow definitely has a ton of established backstory, but that backstory hasn't been engrained in the public consciousness by consecutive decades of movies and catoons to the point where basic facts of the character are set as gospell. This is what gives the writers the freedom they have been (mostly) using to good effect. I definitely like that they are using the mayor storyline and bringing some actual arrow components from the books. I wish he wasn't trying to go "no killing" though. That was the thing that hooked me in the pilot, i expected to see him knock out the kidnappers a-team style not snap their necks. The original "no killing" rule was set up for batman because the censors were trying to ban violent comics and batman was being marketed to literal children. It ended up as a primary component of the character later. Arrow doesnt need to be entirely non-lethal, and it seems really weird when you still have oliver shooting ninjas and guards every episode and diggle literally is just a guy with a glock
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Jan 10, 2016 18:12
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Batman's thing is no guns, people. None of them kill.
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Jan 10, 2016 18:23
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McSpanky posted:Possibly hotter, superheroes are scifi-adjacent and scifi loves sexy bald chicks. It certainly worked for Karen Gilan in Guardians of the Galaxy.
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Jan 10, 2016 19:04
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I will say though Olive is WILLING to kill because he doesn't believe that Batman BS that I will become them if I kill them. Oliver seems to allow for the possibility if it becomes necessary. Hell he killed some poor low life last season to infiltrate the League. The bigger problem is that they seem to be forcing these changes instead of letting them come a bit more organically. I wonder if Anarky will force some more political part of Arrow though...
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Jan 10, 2016 19:20
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He only stopped killing because Tommy asked him to when he died, right? And they did a weird thing with Laurel where she hated The Hood leading into Season 2 for...I dunno, because she's a girl and is emotional. I feel like there should be more to it than that considering he spent a smooth 6 years killing whenever it was convenient.
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Jan 10, 2016 19:27
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But now, to honor his friend's memory, he can't be the killer he once was. He must become something else. He must become...someone else.
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Jan 11, 2016 00:19
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Seems like he shot a lot of people in the chest so far and Diggle definitely gives no fucks about shooting someone with a gun and he doesn't complain about it. He should just be Robin Hood which is what he kinda is in the comics isn't he?
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Jan 11, 2016 01:02
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SonicRulez posted:He only stopped killing because Tommy asked him to when he died, right? And they did a weird thing with Laurel where she hated The Hood leading into Season 2 for...I dunno, because she's a girl and is emotional. I feel like there should be more to it than that considering he spent a smooth 6 years killing whenever it was convenient. Tommy didn't ask him to stop killing, rather Tommy reacted with disgust when he learn that Oliver was the Hood. Then Oliver couldn't deal with the fact that his best friend died thinking that Oliver was no better than a common killer.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:39
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