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Burning Rain posted:what didn't you like about it, Ras? Idk, it has this thematic sense of being a parable or a myth, the whole religious quality, but the language is so flat, the atmosphere so stodgy, that it feels like a heavy handed children's book at best and like an absolute intellectual travesty at worst. e: I entirely understand the defence that the style is "Nigerian", "it's how the people talk", but then I don't want to read that any more than I want to read Trainspotting.
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Jan 11, 2016 18:40
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Ras Het posted:OK, Nigerian aesthetic expectations are bad blue squares posted:Only if you read it through the lens of Western aesthetic expectations
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Jan 11, 2016 18:41
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Is Things Fall Apart a barrel of fun to read? Not really, I agree. But that's my aesthetic judgment of the flat language, which I agree with you on. It isn't a riveting story. But the thing that makes the book important is its context. Though I suppose no one ITT needs me to tell them that.
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Jan 11, 2016 18:42
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Caustic Chimera posted:I read Invisible Cities. I liked it, but man, I should have picked a better time to read it. I don't think it's a book meant for reading on the bus. I missed a lot of small details and I feel like an idiot now. I only remember the city that produces garbage.
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Jan 11, 2016 18:46
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I only remember the city that produces garbage. No, that's DeLillo's Underworld
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Jan 11, 2016 18:48
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Also its Bakersfield, CA
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Jan 11, 2016 18:48
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blue squares posted:Is Things Fall Apart a barrel of fun to read? Not really, I agree. But that's my aesthetic judgment of the flat language, which I agree with you on. It isn't a riveting story. But the thing that makes the book important is its context. The context is supremely interesting, but just about anyone could write the story of Big Hulk of a Man refusing to understand new things. It offers me gently caress all.
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Jan 11, 2016 18:49
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Understand new things? Okay, it's been years since I have read the book, but what new things was the character supposed to understand? The new white authorities that get to do whatever the gently caress they want?
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Jan 11, 2016 18:54
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blue squares posted:Understand new things? Okay, it's been years since I have read the book, but what new things was the character supposed to understand? The new white authorities that get to do whatever the gently caress they want? If anything the conflict of the novel is that both sides don't actually know anything about it each other, even with translators. Okonkwo keeps pushing for war because his idea of war is fight between villages, he remembers one where they lost two men but killed twelve of the enemy. And the British authorities try to resolve the tensions between the native religion and the Christians peacefully, but do so in a way that humiliates the entire tribal leadership and makes a fight more likely. Though I read his suicide as being more disgust with his own people for not following their traditions and being overly cautious (he decides to do it after murdering a court official only to be met by cries of alarm and consternation, instead of the militant joy he was expecting) rather then him being a grumpy old man not wanting to live in such a crazy new world.
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Jan 11, 2016 19:05
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Okay it's actually been a lot longer than I thought since I read that book because I only vaguely remember any of that
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Jan 11, 2016 19:21
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Well yeah I mean if "everything was so much better before the white man showed up" is a possible interpretation then things fell apart way worse than I thought
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Jan 11, 2016 19:30
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everything was better before white people existed imo
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Jan 11, 2016 19:42
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yams are really good
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Jan 11, 2016 19:43
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It's about how the colonial catastrophe that natives face comes from inside. It's certainly not about how much better things were before white people. Despite its admirable qualities, pre-colonial Igbo society is terrible (like Okonkwo). Despite their strength, the world ends up passing them by (like Okonkwo). Okonkwo's son converting is a key moment: he realises how deeply repugnant traditions like the killing of twins are. The Igbo are caught between the equally unpleasant poles of a dysfunctional status quo and foreign domination. It's an impossible situation, but the igbo still have the complete responsibility for their own fates. Okonkwo's solution is to kill himself, which is also the narrative end of the Ibo world (the colonial administrator takes over the narrative for the epilogue). I don't read much postcolonial stuff, but I'd say it's endured because it nailed down the postcolonial narrative. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 19:48
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It should also be kept in mind that even for a highly traditionalist society Okonkwo is a massive Conservative extremist. He's so obsessed with the family customs that he's punished by the local priest for beating his wife during a week of peace. And when the village decides to kill his adoptive son, and even though they tell him they're fine with him not wanting to take part he still goes along with them, and then deals the killing blow because he's afraid of appearing weak. He even chastises a friend who didn't go along with the murder and is surprised when his friend tells him he didn't take part because he... just didn't want to take part. And whilst some of the tribal leadership are willing to compromise and make a settlement with the converts and even the white judges, on a few issues, he was always pushing for violence because he believed that was what his societies customs demanded. He didn't like the way things were going but he was never really that satisfied with the way things were either, and its partly the reason the whole thing collapsed.
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Jan 11, 2016 20:18
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blue squares posted:everything was better before people existed imo
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Jan 11, 2016 21:36
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I really only read pre-BigBang lit these days
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Jan 11, 2016 21:49
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blue squares posted:I really only read pre-BigBang lit these days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNUkBNxB3Xc
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Jan 11, 2016 22:17
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Nanomashoes posted:Some guy on /lit/ was posting some pictures claiming they were Pynchon's letters from the UT Austin library. I can't guarantee their veracity, but they seem very Pynchon to me. Here's an archive of everything he posted. Here's the thread. Doesn't that library also have the first draft of V? Austin goons please go look for Easter Eggs. In the meantime here's some little-known Pynchon photos -- he's almost certainly Guy du Puy. http://lawsofsilence.blogspot.com/2013/02/start-of-duel-buried-in-sun_9.html
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Jan 11, 2016 22:38
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It's about how the colonial catastrophe that natives face comes from inside. That seems like an absurd thing to claim.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:18
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A human heart posted:That seems like an absurd thing to claim. Well if they just assimilated with the colonist's culture, then there really wouldn't have been any problems
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Jan 11, 2016 23:22
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Trying to reduce post-colonial literature to a binary of preferable conditions is to miss the point of post-colonial literature
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Jan 11, 2016 23:45
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blue squares posted:No, that's DeLillo's Underworld Speaking of DeLillo, I'm 2/3rds of the way through White Noise and I'm really enjoying it. I was thinking of reading Americana or Mao II next. I'd like to read Underworld eventually. I guess I'm wondering what The Essential Delillo is, or if there's a natural choice for what to read of his next.
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Jan 12, 2016 01:56
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OregonDonor posted:Speaking of DeLillo, I'm 2/3rds of the way through White Noise and I'm really enjoying it. I was thinking of reading Americana or Mao II next. I'd like to read Underworld eventually. I guess I'm wondering what The Essential Delillo is, or if there's a natural choice for what to read of his next. I was in your shoes once. How naive I was. Everything I loved about White Noise is nowhere to be found in Underworld, The Names, or Libra, the three other books I read before I gave up on him. White Noise is funny as hell, even charming, while those three (especially the loving Names, ugh) are not. Libra is at least a pretty cool spy story at times, but White Noise is what Pynchon/David Foster Wallace fans should stick to if they're looking for more of that style.
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Jan 12, 2016 01:59
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I love Mao II and WN, haven't been able to finish Underworld. I'd say try Mao II. I couldn't put it down
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Jan 12, 2016 02:16
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I enjoyed White Noise and am 2/3 through Underworld and am starting to flag.
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Jan 12, 2016 02:52
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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:I enjoyed White Noise and am 2/3 through Underworld and am starting to flag. It's a bad book that came out during the previous era of The Big Book (which is now seeing a pleasant resurgence IMO, with the Lumineers being the longest ever Booker Man, and A Little Life being so well received, not to mention City on Fire getting the biggest debut advance ever at $2million), and only gets so much praise because its length automatically makes people think it must be DeLillo's magnum opus blue squares fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jan 12, 2016 |
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Jan 12, 2016 02:55
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I don't know if I posted this in the thread before, but I have a friend who grew up in an apartment building in NYC where Thomas Pynchon, his wife and son lived at the time. He said that his wife did most of the socializing and everything was in her name but that Pynchon would occasionally be at tenant meetings and that he looked somewhat like Kurt Vonnegut.
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Jan 12, 2016 02:58
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blue squares posted:It's a bad book that came out during the previous era of The Big Book (which is now seeing a pleasant resurgence IMO, with the Lumineers... * Luminaries. The Lumineers have nothing to do with the book. (Not criticising, just nitpicking).
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Jan 12, 2016 03:12
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A human heart posted:That seems like an absurd thing to claim. The colonists come from aboard, but the colonial catastrophe is the surrender of the Igbo. The only reasonable choice is to surrender, but it is still a choice, and that's the catastrophe they face. quote:The case concerned a young man who was stopped by Gardaí in relation to a road traffic matter, who was arrested, handcuffed and brought to a Garda Station until a Garda could be found who could deal with him through Irish. The man was not involved in an accident, nor were there any allegations made concerning speeding or driving under the influence of alcohol.
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Jan 12, 2016 06:49
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blue squares posted:Whats your major? I would assume Human Sexuality
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Jan 13, 2016 01:44
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blue squares posted:Whats your major? Vectors and Quaternions.
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Jan 14, 2016 00:11
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mdemone posted:Vectors and Quaternions. How much do you win from the casinos?
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Jan 14, 2016 11:44
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The Elena Ferrante books are starting to feel like gender horror novels
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Jan 14, 2016 19:39
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What counts as "real literature" exactly?
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Jan 15, 2016 11:11
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Real literature is aesthetically resonant portrayal of the human experience, in prose. As opposed to genre fiction, which is stuff occupied with the trappings of genre.
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Jan 15, 2016 11:29
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Real literature has got to have a conversation where two women talk to each other about God.
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Jan 15, 2016 12:32
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Mel Mudkiper posted:The Elena Ferrante books are starting to feel like gender horror novels
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Jan 15, 2016 13:25
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paradoxGentleman posted:What counts as "real literature" exactly? there are 121 pages of posts answering that exact question
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Jan 15, 2016 13:40
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paradoxGentleman posted:What counts as "real literature" exactly? Here's a checklist of things that make a book not literature:
With this helpful list you can determine whether you are reading a good literature book or a bad entertainment book.
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Jan 15, 2016 13:46
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