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Serperoth posted:You don't even need to NAME something. I can say "That blue planeswalker with the 4 activated abilities", and that'd be JTMS. If there's doubt, call a Judge, and clarify it. The problem isn't that he named something that wasn't Borborygmos Enraged. The problem was that he named the one card that was unambiguously the WRONG card. I posted earlier in the thread a list of things he could've named that would have counted. It isn't "Ha, gotcha, I was bluffing all along", it was a misplay by someone at the top 8 of a Modern tournament. Hell, he could have named (as he asked later) "Borborygmos, the one in your deck", and it'd have been clear (mostly). Right, that's what I'm saying. In almost every case, throwing out anything even vaguely describing the card in question is good enough. If Borborygmos Enraged was the only card depicting that character, just saying half of his name would have been more than sufficient. The fact that there was another version of the card with an overlapping name was a fluke chance, and I don't feel like asking players to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every card every printed to be safe from similar situations is a reasonable burden of knowledge.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:13
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Serperoth posted:I posted earlier in the thread a list of things he could've named that would have counted. Ya well you should have added "naming borborygmos against a goryos deck" cause it's incredibly obvious what card the dude was naming. This is loving absurd. If I was playing the goryos deck and the dude named borborygmos id be like ok gothcha Like be a normal nice human gently caress
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Jan 11, 2016 23:14
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uggy posted:Ya well you should have added "naming borborygmos against a goryos deck" cause it's incredibly obvious what card the dude was naming. Congrats on not being a shitbag professional magic player.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:15
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Entropic posted:I can only think of one other case where it would matter (Nicol Bolas vs Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker) and it would be equally obvious there which one was actually meant. There's also Urborg vs Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. It's not in Modern and it doesn't affect Pithing Needle, though.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:16
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The edge case here seems to be cards whose full names are contained entirely within the partial names of other cards. You couldn't make the same mistake by saying 'Jace' or something because that's not the full name of any card; in situations where it mattered, you would simply have to clarify specifically which card you were referring to. There should probably be an addendum to the rules to cover any ambiguity that arises from a situation like this, deliberate or otherwise.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:21
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If you're playing on modo and your opponent needles naming borborygmos do you kill them with borborygmos enraged? Do you assume your opponent meant borborygmos enraged? I mean at the end of the day the judge said it was a mistake. If wotc goes and says that needle works differently in the future then so be it v  v.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:26
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I don't think taking advantage of the rules in a competitive, high stakes environment makes you a scumbag. However, I agree that the rules could be improved when it comes to abbreviating a card's name. There have been a lot of instances throughout Magic where players try to use shortcuts of various sorts and get punished for doing it wrong, but the rules have mostly moved in the direction of not punishing people for understandable miscommunications. I think that is a good trend and this is another instance where it could be applied.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:29
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Hey buddy, its within the rules. I have the right to pretend that I believed my opponent was pithing the card nobody plays. Just win baby.  Sarcasm aside, I keep reading people bring up the argument that they don't want discretion in this kind of call because they want judging to be consistent. I feel like if magic wasn't full of subjective rules already this would hold more weight.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:29
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Zoness posted:If you're playing on modo and your opponent needles naming borborygmos do you kill them with borborygmos enraged? Do you assume your opponent meant borborygmos enraged? If it happens on Modo they have to pick form a drop-down menu that would make them aware of the existence of another card with Borborygmos in its name and prevent this sort of ambiguity from happening in the first place. They could even tab out and look up the card if they were unsure.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:30
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Reminds me of the time I activated Cursed Scroll naming Liliana, and randomly revealed Liliana of the Veil from my hand. My opponent said I hadn't uniquely identified which Liliana I meant. The judge was sitting nearby and told him to gently caress off. Of course, that's regular REL with a store full of people who know each other. I honestly think Borborygmosgate was handled properly because of the stakes involved, but it's an unfortunate situation. I think Borborygmos is literally the only character with two Modern-legal cards one of which is just his first name.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:30
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PleasantDirge posted:I can't believe anyone thinks that about potus or potus' posting. Try not to get too offended over there, friend.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:31
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Chamale posted:Reminds me of the time I activated Cursed Scroll naming Liliana, and randomly revealed Liliana of the Veil from my hand. My opponent said I hadn't uniquely identified which Liliana I meant. The judge was sitting nearby and told him to gently caress off. Of course, that's regular REL with a store full of people who know each other. I honestly think Borborygmosgate was handled properly because of the stakes involved, but it's an unfortunate situation. I think Borborygmos is literally the only character with two Modern-legal cards one of which is just his first name. The solution really is to ban the poo poo one so it never happens again
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Jan 11, 2016 23:35
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TFK could be meddled as thirst, which is a card. thus far those are the only two pairs of cards that you could reasonably shorthand into the name of another card
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Jan 11, 2016 23:35
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Clearly it was the quarterback's intention to throw the ball to his teammate. Everyone on both teams knew it too, so intercepting the ball and running the other way with it is such a scumbag move.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:37
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little munchkin posted:Clearly it was the quarterback's intention to throw the ball to his teammate. Everyone on both teams knew it too, so intercepting the ball and running the other way with it is such a scumbag move. This might be the dumbest comparison I've ever read.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:38
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Zoness posted:If you're playing on modo and your opponent needles naming borborygmos do you kill them with borborygmos enraged? Do you assume your opponent meant borborygmos enraged? If I am playing on modo my opponent is f6'd while I use Words of Wind
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Jan 11, 2016 23:39
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little munchkin posted:Clearly it was the quarterback's intention to throw the ball to his teammate. Everyone on both teams knew it too, so intercepting the ball and running the other way with it is such a scumbag move. what
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Jan 11, 2016 23:40
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little munchkin posted:Clearly it was the quarterback's intention to throw the ball to his teammate. Everyone on both teams knew it too, so intercepting the ball and running the other way with it is such a scumbag move.  Really?
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Jan 11, 2016 23:40
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little munchkin posted:Clearly it was the quarterback's intention to throw the ball to his teammate. Everyone on both teams knew it too, so intercepting the ball and running the other way with it is such a scumbag move. this is super dumb man
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Jan 11, 2016 23:40
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little munchkin posted:Clearly it was the quarterback's intention to throw the ball to his teammate. Everyone on both teams knew it too, so intercepting the ball and running the other way with it is such a scumbag move. if you're still trying that hard to come up with a reason to WIN AT ALL COSTS that you gotta come up with this, I think you've lost both battles.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:41
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little munchkin posted:Clearly it was the quarterback's intention to throw the ball to his teammate. Everyone on both teams knew it too, so intercepting the ball and running the other way with it is such a scumbag move. mcmagic posted:This might be the dumbest comparison I've ever read. Congrats on getting owned by mcmagic.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:41
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Zoness posted:If you're playing on modo and your opponent needles naming borborygmos do you kill them with borborygmos enraged? Do you assume your opponent meant borborygmos enraged? On MODO you start typing "borb" and see that there're two Bobos next to each other in the drop down list. Entropic fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 23:43
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Chamale posted:Reminds me of the time I activated Cursed Scroll naming Liliana, and randomly revealed Liliana of the Veil from my hand. My opponent said I hadn't uniquely identified which Liliana I meant. The judge was sitting nearby and told him to gently caress off. Of course, that's regular REL with a store full of people who know each other. I honestly think Borborygmosgate was handled properly because of the stakes involved, but it's an unfortunate situation. I think Borborygmos is literally the only character with two Modern-legal cards one of which is just his first name. Nicol Bolas was timeshifted.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:43
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little munchkin posted:Clearly it was the quarterback's intention to throw the ball to his teammate. Everyone on both teams knew it too, so intercepting the ball and running the other way with it is such a scumbag move. Pithing Needle rules lawyering is more like the wrong ball trick*, except when that gambit goes wrong you have the satisfaction of watching the quarterback get tackled by a linebacker twice his size. *Quarterback starts calmly walking off the field with the ball, hoping the defense won't realize that play is live, then runs for the end zone.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:43
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One time on MODO while playing Momir I hit Adaptive Automotan on 3 and randomly hit a key, got Y, picked Yeti from the drop down, then hit a Mountain Yeti on 4. Play well, get rewarded.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:52
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it was a joke, sorry y'all i still think getting a bunch of cash put into your hand is a more important priority than your opponent's feelbads though
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Jan 11, 2016 23:55
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rabidsquid posted:One time on MODO while playing Momir I hit Adaptive Automotan on 3 and randomly hit a key, got Y, picked Yeti from the drop down, then hit a Mountain Yeti on 4. All ya whiners should aspire to be like this man. Naming the proper thing and winning because of it.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:56
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Voyager I posted:If it happens on Modo they have to pick form a drop-down menu that would make them aware of the existence of another card with Borborygmos in its name and prevent this sort of ambiguity from happening in the first place. They could even tab out and look up the card if they were unsure. Yeah the point here is despite there being a place with the proper card name listed out and a way to pick the correct one your opponent somehow picked the wrong one. Misclicks are possible and taking advantage of them isn't scumbagging. And I'm saying this as someone who's lost a fair number of 8-4 finals to misclicks. Zoness fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Jan 12, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 23:58
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One of the best outs to Standard Splinter Twin on modo was f6ing and waiting for your opponent to gently caress up the combo.
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Jan 11, 2016 23:59
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Zoness posted:Yeah the point here is despite there being a place with the proper card name listed out and a way to pick the correct one your opponent somehow picked the wrong one. Sure but in this case a "misclick" would be like naming Ruric Thar because he's the big RG guy from RTR block.
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Jan 12, 2016 00:00
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I don't see the relevance of modo comparisons.
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Jan 12, 2016 00:04
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little munchkin posted:it was a joke, sorry y'all There's a difference between holding your opponent to their mistakes when money is on the line versus deliberately misinterpreting what they said so you can ride some inane technicality to victory.
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Jan 12, 2016 00:04
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"Pithing Needle, naming Jace." "Which one?" "Anime Jace." "Again, which one?"
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Jan 12, 2016 00:12
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Oath Tokens   Plus the BFZ scions are being updated with the colorless mana symbol      I hadn't realized till now that Chandra's tokens are different from Akoum Stonewaker's. Her's don't have trample.
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Jan 12, 2016 00:13
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Oh man, it's adorable. 
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Jan 12, 2016 00:29
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I want to draw little sombreros on all the eldrazi scions now.
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Jan 12, 2016 00:38
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The eldrazi scion tokens are great, can't wait to vomit out a stack of them with Blight Herder
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Jan 12, 2016 00:41
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That reminds me, why does Lingering Souls on MTGO make lovely Kamigawa tokens?
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Jan 12, 2016 00:45
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It's a shame, because the Shadowmoor spirit token art is fantastic.
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Jan 12, 2016 00:50
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Even if you have the Morningtide Bitterblossom, it produces the crappy MM15 ones.
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Jan 12, 2016 00:55
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