The Air Force Thread - "Being pegged is awesome."

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > The Air Force Thread - "Being pegged is awesome."

standard.deviant: May 17, 2012; Globally Indigent

Godholio posted:

Well an MSM is higher than an AFCM so of course you weren't going to get one if that's all he was getting.

True... Depends on the deployment too. I ran mixed air/ground deployments, multi-service (which means different tour lengths). If an AF dude showed up for six months and flew the line, never did anything more than his job, he got air medals and a nice LOE. If a Marine was there for 12 months and took on an extra duty, he probably got a JSAM or JCOM depending on the job and whether he flew or not (no Air Medals = higher joint dec). If a Navy guy was there for 8 months and wrote himself up for a DMSM even though he was a shitbag, the dec gets lost in the system so sorry.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 04:11

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 01:18

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

You forgot Finance Warrior! and a bronze star.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 04:24

SalTheBard: Jan 26, 2005; I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!; Fallen Rib

Godholio posted:

Well an MSM is higher than an AFCM so of course you weren't going to get one if that's all he was getting. Like it or not, medals generally correspond to rank, so unless you were an O-4/E-7 or higher, good luck. MSM is usually a PCS medal for squadron commanders or superintendents/shirts, for example.

Ya I got it backwards. I knew I should've double checked that before I posted.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 04:41

Wild T: Dec 15, 2008; The point I'm trying to make is that the only way to come out on top is to kick the Air Force in the nuts, beart it savagely with a weight and take a dump on it's face.

Protons posted:

Thread hasn't moved in four days. I can only assume you guys are beginning to stumble out of your whisky induced comas from NYE and/or your regular weekend schedule. As you blink away visions of your debauched weekend, I'd like to pose a Real Question about Good NCO Leadership vs. Bad NCO Leadership.

Since I've been on leave, 6 out of 7 airmen in our office have received an LOC. 3 of them for failing that no notice dorm inspection, and another three for bullshit they've never been verbally counseled on. Both E5 supervisors of the remaining 3 airmen were told to issue these LOCs based on what our E6 section superintendent said. When said E5s decided that they have a better way (i.e. not going right to loving paperwork,) they were told the classic poo poo line 'if you don't write it, I will.' This left both E5s in a lovely predicament that is pretty common where I am. Does an LOC coming from your direct supervisor sting less than from the section superintendent? The E5s believe they're doing their airmen a favor by writing it simply because of that perceived bonus of not coming from the section supt.

What are some ways I can articulate to this fellow E6 and our brand new section chief O1 (who I feel may be deferring to the E6 because of time in service) that this practice is harmful and unhelpful? I feel like whenever your boss tells you to write your own airmen paperwork, and threatens to do it themselves if you don't, you're effectively removing any legitimacy as both an NCO and a leader. I also feel that issuing paperwork for a slew of minor offenses (too much cussing, perceived unprofessional/impolite mannerisms) that have never been brought up before is sloppy, lazy supervision. If A1C Jones says gently caress too much, you pull him in, sit him down, and tell him he says gently caress too much and you want him to stop. If he doesn't, then you start to document the trend.

I know I'm not going to be able to convince this E6 to pull these LOCs, but I want her to know that it's not OK to simply throw paper on airmen if you first haven't addressed their issues verbally. The power of the pen is what is making two of our legitimately bright and promising airmen decide they are going to separate. No amount of my AF yes man sales pitch of 'don't let your first base paint your af picture' rhetoric can convince them to stick out one more base. I really don't blame them, and before I went on leave I spent an hour helping one airman try and find a military friendly college.

This is going to sound lame, but go talk to the E6. Let her know she's micromanaging her SSgts and undermining their credibility by removing their ability to actually manage their folks. If she has issues with the way her SSgts are running their poo poo, she needs to be looking at them, not jumping the chain. They're getting paid as NCOs and should be doing the work, not being glorified airmen who just do whatever the boss says. If she won't budge, talk to the Lt about it and give him the same story. If he's leaning that hard on her out of inexperience he's probably blind to the issue she's causing and needs to know what's up.

If neither one will budge, your options are to elevate it and air out their dirty laundry or just shutter the windows and ride the storm out as best you can, watch for them to gently caress up and burn 'em as hard as you can. They may need that lesson that happy troops help you fix mistakes, unhappy troops will throw your rear end under the bus and laugh as you're crushed.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 05:01

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

SalTheBard posted:

Ya I got it backwards. I knew I should've double checked that before I posted.

In that case, your supervisor was a d-bag. Nobody earns an MSM without standing on the shoulders of people who earned an AFCM or something similar.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 05:24

Cojawfee: May 31, 2006; I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

I never got any medals.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 05:24

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

I got an AFAM for being an MPC chief and doing some contingency plan work with no staff for HHQ. An Aerial Achievement got lost along with my sep medal. :shrug:

# ? Jan 11, 2016 05:27

SalTheBard: Jan 26, 2005; I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!; Fallen Rib

Godholio posted:

In that case, your supervisor was a d-bag. Nobody earns an MSM without standing on the shoulders of people who earned an AFCM or something similar.

Exactly. This is the same TSgt (who was married) who tried to gently caress a SrA and then had a nervous breakdown when she rebuked him. Then later he went to find her and she was worth a different guy and he flipped poo poo on her. He also made sure they never worked together after that. He also gave me an LoR because I didn't return "his truck" (they were flight vehicles) in a "timely" manor. I could probably write a much looney post about how hosed up my deployment was (and I was not anywhere close to combat)

# ? Jan 11, 2016 05:38

Wild T: Dec 15, 2008; The point I'm trying to make is that the only way to come out on top is to kick the Air Force in the nuts, beart it savagely with a weight and take a dump on it's face.

Should have just told him you were on the way to give it back but you ended up hooking up with the SrA in it. Tell him he can probably still sniff the seats if he wants.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 05:55

SalTheBard: Jan 26, 2005; I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!; Fallen Rib

Wild T posted:

Should have just told him you were on the way to give it back but you ended up hooking up with the SrA in it. Tell him he can probably still sniff the seats if he wants.

If I said that to him I probably wouldn't be alive to post this.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 07:56

Ragaman: Feb 6, 2002; Title? I dont need no stinkin' Title

Just echoing that the advice to go talk to the E6 is the right advice, even if the paperwork has already been signed/accepted.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 09:56

Prop Wash: Jun 12, 2010

It's pcs daaaay

Pcs day

# ? Jan 11, 2016 14:07

Larry Parrish: Jul 9, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

I'm not an expert but it seems retarded to get a medal purely from PCSing/finishing your deployment as coffee boy in the CAOC. People look like Qaddafi by the time they make e-7.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 16:04

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

After a 3-year tour, our Canadian major went home with more medals than their chief of staff.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 16:41

Hotel Kpro: Feb 24, 2011; owls don't go to school; Dinosaur Gum

My achievement medal arrived 33 months after it was signed by the commander, after I had separated.

# ? Jan 12, 2016 00:06

Rythe: Jan 21, 2011

Our new Commander was in charge for less than 10 hours and we managed to get 2 DUIs in that time frame, that has got to be some AF record.

# ? Jan 12, 2016 01:30

Cojawfee: May 31, 2006; I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Rythe posted:

Our new Commander was in charge for less than 10 hours and we managed to get 2 DUIs in that time frame, that has got to be some AF record.

What a great way to meet the new commander. They're hosed.

# ? Jan 12, 2016 01:35

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

I was reading the memoirs of a guy who'd flown fighters from World War II to Vietnam and he talked about how, after a change of command ceremony where he'd turned over command of a wing of F-105s to some other colonel, he was boarding a plane back to CONUS when one of the aircraft that had participated in the flyby during the ceremony made an emergency gear-up landing on the runway.

He said that sometimes when he tells the story, the incoming commander was running down the tarmac trying to give the flag back.

# ? Jan 12, 2016 01:41

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

Cojawfee posted:

I never got any medals.

I have a couple of AFAMs. The second one was for a really miserable project that my douchebag supervisor milked for two years, during which he did nothing else. He got a commendation medal, I got an achievement, and a coworker who was involved with the project for a couple weeks got an achievement medal with the same bullets as mine.

A couple years ago I led a team that replaced every mobile radio on base. Then switched over to adding new grounding to buildings all over base to fill a contracting oversight. Didn't get poo poo for that.

# ? Jan 12, 2016 02:01

Tiny Timbs: Sep 6, 2008

Rythe posted:

Our new Commander was in charge for less than 10 hours and we managed to get 2 DUIs in that time frame, that has got to be some AF record.

hosed up that the commander allowed those DUIs to happen under his watch

When is his supervisor going to hold the counseling session with him

# ? Jan 12, 2016 02:04

The Sheriff Jake: May 8, 2006

A Kpro posted:

My achievement medal arrived 33 months after it was signed by the commander, after I had separated.

I got a certificate of retirement in the mail like 2 years after I separated.

# ? Jan 12, 2016 03:23

Rythe: Jan 21, 2011

TheWhiteNightmare posted:

hosed up that the commander allowed those DUIs to happen under his watch

When is his supervisor going to hold the counseling session with him

Funny thing is we are a GSU, so the big bosses are typically across the country, unless they came into town for the change of command and didn't plan on leaving until Monday.

# ? Jan 12, 2016 03:44

Protons: Sep 15, 2012

I got my CSB notice today. Should I take the roughly $22,500 now and 40% retirement pay under REDUX or not? I'm not dying for money, I'm not even hurting really. I only have about $1300 in consumer credit debt and my car.

I want to take the money.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 00:26

standard.deviant: May 17, 2012; Globally Indigent

Pretty sure it's dumb to take the money. 22500 is about 20% of an E-7 retirement (aka what you're giving up) over 5 years. If you are planning on retirement around 40 you had better have a phenomenal investment plan to make up the delta.

We are dumb, we enlisted, take it and live the stereotype.

standard.deviant fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Jan 13, 2016

# ? Jan 13, 2016 00:30

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Unless you're planning to retire in your late 50s or later, I don't see many scenarios where you make more in the long run by taking cash now. They're trying to get you to buy out for a loving reason.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 00:34

krispykremessuck: Jul 22, 2005; unlike most veterans and SA members $10 is not a meaningful expenditure for me

I'm gonna have me a swag Bar-B-Q

Protons posted:

I got my CSB notice today. Should I take the roughly $22,500 now and 40% retirement pay under REDUX or not? I'm not dying for money, I'm not even hurting really. I only have about $1300 in consumer credit debt and my car.

I want to take the money.

redux is a bad deal

e: except in an extraordinarily limited set of cases, but not yours

# ? Jan 13, 2016 01:31

lite_sleepr: Jun 3, 2003

standard.deviant posted:

Pretty sure it's dumb to take the money. 22500 is about 20% of an E-7 retirement (aka what you're giving up) over 5 years. If you are planning on retirement around 40 you had better have a phenomenal investment plan to make up the delta.

We are dumb, we enlisted, take it and live the stereotype.

I guess my iPad is logged on my parachute account.

I'm an e6 and will probably be for the next 5.5 years.

Nobody in the military retires at 38 and doesn't work afterward. Everyone retires and gets another job, which is what I'll do. Why can't I take 22.5k and throw it in an IRA and in a savings account? Is 10 percentage points really going to make a screaming deal?

# ? Jan 13, 2016 02:34

krispykremessuck: Jul 22, 2005; unlike most veterans and SA members $10 is not a meaningful expenditure for me

I'm gonna have me a swag Bar-B-Q

PRESIDENT GOKU posted:

I guess my iPad is logged on my parachute account.

I'm an e6 and will probably be for the next 5.5 years.

Nobody in the military retires at 38 and doesn't work afterward. Everyone retires and gets another job, which is what I'll do. Why can't I take 22.5k and throw it in an IRA and in a savings account? Is 10 percentage points really going to make a screaming deal?

https://communities.usaa.com/t5/Financial-Advice-Q-A/Should-I-take-the-CSB-REDUX-30-000/qaq-p/15207

e: take the redux

# ? Jan 13, 2016 03:08

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

PRESIDENT GOKU posted:

I'm an e6 and will probably be for the next 5.5 years.

Nobody in the military retires at 38 and doesn't work afterward. Everyone retires and gets another job, which is what I'll do. Why can't I take 22.5k and throw it in an IRA and in a savings account? Is 10 percentage points really going to make a screaming deal?

Wouldn't you rather spend it on a bitchin' new V6 Mustang?

# ? Jan 13, 2016 03:45

Helldump Immunity.: Aug 2, 2013; Fuck you

Godholio posted:

Wouldn't you rather spend it on a bitchin' new automatic V6 Mustang?

# ? Jan 13, 2016 04:00

standard.deviant: May 17, 2012; Globally Indigent

PRESIDENT GOKU posted:

I guess my iPad is logged on my parachute account.

I'm an e6 and will probably be for the next 5.5 years.

Nobody in the military retires at 38 and doesn't work afterward. Everyone retires and gets another job, which is what I'll do. Why can't I take 22.5k and throw it in an IRA and in a savings account? Is 10 percentage points really going to make a screaming deal?

You're giving up 20% of your retirement paycheck to take the bonus. Right now if you retire as a 20-year E-6, that's ($3772.62 + $3772.62 + $3719.66)/3 * 10% = 375.50 a month. In 60ish months of pay (59.92 if you want to be pedantic) aka 5 years, that adds up to 22.5k. Unless you plan to die within a few years of getting out of the military or you have the world's best-earning IRA/savings account combination, you are giving up that amount (plus all of the COLA increases) every year past those 5 years. It's obviously worse if you get promoted, because then you'd be giving up 20% of a bigger retirement.

But yeah, don't do the math, buy a sweet Mustang.

EDIT: Fixed math to account for high-3, though it moved the bar up .03 months (1 day) before you're throwing away money.

standard.deviant fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Jan 13, 2016

# ? Jan 13, 2016 04:21

xaarman: Mar 12, 2003; IRONKNUCKLE PERMABANNED! READ HERE

krispykremessuck posted:

redux is a bad deal

e: except in an extraordinarily limited set of cases, but not yours

This.

The CSB should be taken out of the military retirement system. 22.5k to give up 10% of your retirement pay for 40+ years?

They are required to notify you of your options, but yeah, ugh. Do not accept.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 04:46

standard.deviant: May 17, 2012; Globally Indigent

xaarman posted:

This.

The CSB should be taken out of the military retirement system. 22.5k to give up 10% of your retirement pay for 40+ years?

They are required to notify you of your options, but yeah, ugh. Do not accept.

20% of your retirement pay. 40% under redux is 80% of the 50% normal 20-year retirement because math.

Edit: it's also not for 40+ years, because redux idiots get bumped to normal numbers at age 62 (but then fall behind due to reduced COLA adjustments).

standard.deviant fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Jan 13, 2016

# ? Jan 13, 2016 04:51

Sacrist65: Mar 24, 2007; Frunnkiss

xaarman posted:

This.

The CSB should be taken out of the military retirement system. 22.5k to give up 10% of your retirement pay for 40+ years?

They are required to notify you of your options, but yeah, ugh. Do not accept.

Some limited circumstances may make the csb a good option like, if you need to pay a loan shark $22.5k to continue having functional kneecaps.

The math works out to be a government sanctioned predatory loan against your retirement.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 04:55

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

My experience in the military has taught me that if the government is offering you a large sum of money it's because of the following conditions:

Risk of death or injury is very high

They're loving you over

# ? Jan 13, 2016 05:10

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

holocaust bloopers posted:

My experience in the military has taught me that if the government is offering you a large sum of money it's because of the following conditions:

Risk of death or injury is very high

They're loving you over

I work with an O-4 who just did the early sign-up for the bonus. :lol:

# ? Jan 13, 2016 05:55

sg54: May 9, 2012

As small as an enlisted pension check is; don't make it any smaller.

The Redux is a scam.

Seen guys take it to get a pool in their backyard, remodel their home (then lose said home in a divorce!) and buy a loving boat.

Can't wait to turn mine down here in a few months.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:02

samizdat: Dec 3, 2008

Offutt commander did a Reddit AMA today
:frogsiren:

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:16

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

"Innovate to execute" is absolutely nonsensical. Military higher-ups are profoundly lovely writers.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:19

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 01:18

Prop Wash: Jun 12, 2010

Also despite the shoveling of all this innovation talk down our throats I don't think we're particularly tolerant of new ideas or methods of execution, especially since the 2011 budget thrash.

Unless it involves cutting positions without any easing of mission requirements, then we're very innovative! We fixed your persistent, debilitating manning problem by cutting manning requirements for your squadron :downs:

# ? Jan 13, 2016 16:53

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