Wheeee posted:

Count Chocula posted:

Do we have a general Silicon Valley Lunacy thread?

http://www.theawl.com/2015/12/star-lords

Wheeee posted:

Dapper_Swindler posted:

is that made out of whale/seal bone goggles, thats awesome. Inuit culture is so amazing.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

is that made out of whale/seal bone goggles, thats awesome. Inuit culture is so amazing.


arnt most of them weird sometimes socialy left objectivists.

quote:

The Handshake: Right hand out in front of you, fingers spread and pointing at the sky. Grasp the other person's right hand, intertwine fingers, and close. Then shoot both hands upward, straight up, all the way up, letting go at the top, whooping "Yo!" or "Hey!" or some such thing.


You won't be able to do this without smiling, without laughing out loud, in fact – just try it – but this little ceremony, this tiny two-second ritual, pretty much sums up the general Extropian approach. This is a philosophy of boundless expansion, of upward- and outwardness, of fantastic superabundance.

It's a doctrine of self-transformation, of extremely advanced technology, and of dedicated, immovable optimism. Most of all, it's a philosophy of freedom from limitations of any kind. There hasn't been anything like it – nothing this wild and extravagant, no such overweening confidence in the human prospect – since way back to those bygone ages when people still believed in things like progress, knowledge, and – let's all shout it out, now – Growth!

Count Chocula posted:

Do we have a general Silicon Valley Lunacy thread?

http://www.theawl.com/2015/12/star-lords

blackguy32 posted:

So does this group have significant overlap with gamergaters? Or are they in conflict with one anothee? One thing I learned is that a lot of these fringe groups hate each other for various reasons.

Race Realists posted:

I can only go by what I see online, and for the most part it seems to me a great majority of them fear what I just said (usually they fear their children in that particular situation), their jobs being "stolen" from certain types of individuals who didn't "work hard enough", and the country descending into chaos and disarray (which some of them believe has already occurred)

rudatron posted:

I don't think DE is simply a manifestation of frustration or When Nihilism Goes Wrong. That period you describe in your own life OwlFancier sounds more like the angst of just growing up. But I think if there is a correct response to Nihilism it's got to be self-actualization, or at the very least a reorientation towards a subjective humanism. I dunno, maybe I was just lucky in that I personally didn't spend much time being a nihilist, despite being atheist from a very, very young age. I'd actually like you to talk more about it, if you don't mind.

Regardless, I think nihilism is too simplistic an answer. As is frustration, everyone grows up wanting to be an astronaut, yet everyone else grows up out of it.

No, I feel like what DE provides is an answer to guilt. Go back to those trading cards - often, they depict themselves as dragons or other mythical creatures. The thing about these creatures though, is that they're not burdened with guilt. They only have self interest, which is why they act the way they do. So they either see themselves in that way, as people without guilt, or desire to be that way. Their catchphrase is 'be a little evil/bad/whatever' after all. I think it's wrong to see that phrase as a prescription to the reader, as how they should act - rather, it's them begging the reader to excuse/absolve their guilt. 'It was only a little bad, it's not a problem'. Oddly enough, they will gladly turn around when they are the injured party, declaring that morality is black-and-white, demanding compensation or whatever (see: mr A). But of course, they deserve absolution without strings attached.

Problem is, guilt makes you human. It's important to feel bad when you've done something bad, so you get to make amends and so on. Normal people just accept that, DE'ers can't, so they try and double down. The death metal stuff is just a cover to try and find legitimacy.

S.M. Stirling posted:

...So the Draka are not different from other people because we violate the Golden Rule, or Bentham's derivative idolatry of 'the greatest good for the greatest number.' Everyone does. We do not violate them, we reject them.

Others have conquered and ruled; we alone conquer for conquest's sake, and dominate for no other purpose than Domination itself; the name we half-consciously chose for our state is no accident. We, and we alone, have spoken aloud the great secret: that the root function of all human society is the production and reproduction of power - and that power is the ability to compel others to do your will, against theirs. It is end, not means. The purpose of power is power.

The Draka will conquer the world for two reasons; because we must and because we can. And yet of the two forces the second is the greater; we do this because we choose to do it. By the sovereign Will and force of arms the Draka will rule the Earth, and in so doing remake themselves. We shall conquer and beat the Nations of the Earth into the dust and reforge them in our self wrought Image; the Final Society, a new humanity without weakness or mercy, hard and pure. Our descendants will walk the hillside of that future, innocent beneath the stars, with no more between them and their naked will than a wolf has. THEN there will be Gods in the Earth.

LORD OF BUTT posted:

They [Khajiit] also worship cocaine.

1337JiveTurkey posted:

The thing is that the explanation comes after the fact because they're not based on rational examination of the facts but a general sense of malaise adapted to the circumstances. This isn't a unique phenomenon: One study asked participants to rate which face they found the most attractive. Afterward they asked why after secretly switching the picture for another face. People didn't notice the deception and still were able to come up with reasons like it never happened. This isn't a moral failing on their part, it's just something that people unconsciously do.

1337JiveTurkey posted:

There's been similar fears voiced since ancient times in response to different circumstances. This sort of sense that everything's vaguely wrong without fully knowing why and struggling to figure out what that is in hopes of fixing it. Even if it's not dysphoria in the technical sense, it's still an extremely unpleasant feeling to have regardless. I raised the possibility of mental issues because they're a common cause but if it's easier to think of it as a sort of nerdy malaise, that works too

...
It's not set in stone that everyone will turn to a specific political movement or any political movement for that matter, but both offer something the other wants. The movement gets a supporter and the person gets an explanation and a sense that they can solve the problem.

What I think is going on is that conservative groups have been making a concerted outreach effort while liberal groups have been much more uneven. My impression (as a white guy from similar circumstances as many of the people we're talking about) is that liberals aren't very good at mental health per se and prefer to focus on what they feel comfortable with. So discussions of a black guy with severe depression are going to focus on questions of race more than how depression affects his life because that's more comfortable.

Cingulate posted:

... And the interesting question is, what makes one specifically buy into DE or HBD, and not into regular run-of-the-mill redneck racism or oldstyle libertarianism or regular conservativism.

Sharkie posted:

Because you've adopted "nerd" as part of your identity, that's it.

Cingulate posted:

That would not be a satisfying explanation to me.

If it is to you, well, thread's basically over then right?

Sharkie posted:

I mean, what do you think it is? Personally I think the only difference between these people and "redneck racists" is that these people think they're superior to the later because they think of themselves very smart, academic, and scientific, and so they use rhetoric that jives with that, but at heart it's the same old poo poo.

Cingulate posted:

I think this is still a bit too general - the question is not, why do people turn conservative? Dark Enlightenment is not conservative, in the same way that Cruz and Bush and so on are almost as disgusted by Trump as everyone else. They're radicals. They're right-wingers and in the to liberals salient aspects agree with conservatives. But they're not conservatives.
They're partially reactionaries, partially liberals, partially fascists, and so on. And the interesting question is, what makes one specifically buy into DE or HBD, and not into regular run-of-the-mill redneck racism or oldstyle libertarianism or regular conservativism.

Cingulate posted:

Depends on whom specifically you're trying to understand right now. For example, I think somebody like Moldbug is motivated by much different things than somebody like Aurini, not to speak of Scott Alexander.

Some of which I'd have to confess I have absolutely no idea about. Big riddles.

Crowsbeak posted:

I thought Moorcock himself admitted that Law/chaos was largely from Poul Andersson?

Cingulate posted:

And the first thing everyone gets wrong is thinking they certainly wouldn't give the subject a 430 volt shock/defend the fake choice.
I think this is still a bit too general - the question is not, why do people turn conservative? Dark Enlightenment is not conservative, in the same way that Cruz and Bush and so on are almost as disgusted by Trump as everyone else. They're radicals. They're right-wingers and in the to liberals salient aspects agree with conservatives. But they're not conservatives.
They're partially reactionaries, partially liberals, partially fascists, and so on. And the interesting question is, what makes one specifically buy into DE or HBD, and not into regular run-of-the-mill redneck racism or oldstyle libertarianism or regular conservativism.

1337JiveTurkey posted:

There's a lot going on and while it may not be the most satisfying answer, nerd identity plays a huge role. While most definitions focus on the shared interests, they're so broad that it's possible for two nerds to have almost nothing in common. I don't care about comic books, science fiction or fantasy but I'll watch movies with my friends, play games and so forth. I'm more interested in academic topics. What we do have in common is that we've been labeled nerds at some point and come to accept that identity.

For someone who was extremely isolated growing up, it's possible that they don't have any other source of identity. I brought up Schizoid disorder because one interpretation of it is that the person suffering from it has a completely shattered sense of identity. Imagine being unable to complete the sentence "I am a..." If their sole source of identity is something like the fact that they're a gamer, something that threatens it in a very real sense threatens them because without it they're nothing.

The same's true with nerds in general. If their entire sense of identity is based on being a nerd, then their entire sense of self worth is based on nerds being great. They don't identify with conservatives in general or the institutions that conservatives do like the military and aren't interested in joining such a movement. In a sense the ideology doesn't matter.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

See all the ones i have met like trump. because he will burn down SJWs or some poo poo. or he will keep the "sandniggers" out. But i do think dark enlightenment stuff is a weird amalgamations of believes and not two are alike. its weird.

Count Chocula posted:

Yeah but the weirdness is fascinating and I'm not sure I want to go into YOSPOS to read about it:

http://www.wired.com/1994/10/extropians/

GunnerJ posted:

Oh, so Steve Ditko is the guy behind this weird poo poo: http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/297/

The Vosgian Beast posted:

I mean he's also a paranoid smelly nutbar who probably has a manifesto

Literally The Worst posted:

the thing is, its not just identifying as "nerdy as hell", it's identifying as a Nerd, making that the core of your identity. like i said, comics are basically all i do. i work in a comic shop, i read comics, i read about comics, it's a huge part of my life. but i don't internalize it and make it the core piece of who i am

a lot of these DE dipshits have made "I am a Nerd, a member of the intelligencia who is unfairly cast out from society" into the basis of who they are

OwlFancier posted:

I feel like this about gaming, I play a shitload of videogames, like most people watch TV, it makes up more or less 90% of my recreational activity. But I don't consider it part of who I am, it's just something I do. Like sleeping in a bed. I do it but I don't consider myself part of bed-sleeping culture.

Capital G Gamers weird me out.

OwlFancier posted:

I feel like this about gaming, I play a shitload of videogames, like most people watch TV, it makes up more or less 90% of my recreational activity. But I don't consider it part of who I am, it's just something I do. Like sleeping in a bed. I do it but I don't consider myself part of bed-sleeping culture.

Capital G Gamers weird me out.

OwlFancier posted:

I feel like this about gaming, I play a shitload of videogames, like most people watch TV, it makes up more or less 90% of my recreational activity. But I don't consider it part of who I am, it's just something I do. Like sleeping in a bed. I do it but I don't consider myself part of bed-sleeping culture.

Capital G Gamers weird me out.

The Vosgian Beast posted:

I'm not sure I saw any of the NRx or post-rationalist types even mention video games before Gamergate happened and they were all suddenly huge gamers standing against the invading progs.

The Vosgian Beast posted:

I'm not sure I saw any of the NRx or post-rationalist types even mention video games before Gamergate happened and they were all suddenly huge gamers standing against the invading progs.

Literally The Worst posted:

the thing is, its not just identifying as "nerdy as hell", it's identifying as a Nerd, making that the core of your identity. like i said, comics are basically all i do. i work in a comic shop, i read comics, i read about comics, it's a huge part of my life. but i don't internalize it and make it the core piece of who i am

a lot of these DE dipshits have made "I am a Nerd, a member of the intelligencia who is unfairly cast out from society" into the basis of who they are

CroatianAlzheimers posted:

I write pen-and-paper RPGs for a living, and holy poo poo are you on the nose with this. A lot of people in my industry (and in the fanbase) all fervently believe that they are intellectual giants cast out of society for being just too smart guys for real. These are people who identify as capital-G gamers or geeks, and who have never read a book that didn't have a dragon or a spaceship in it.

Fox Ironic posted:

On a side note, I think a lot of the reason White Supremacy/HBD/Dark Enlightenment stuff is gaining steam is because it's becoming harder for more "traditionally" minded people to find positive, pro-social identity in "opressor identity sets." A lot of these people see no way to reconcile being White/Male in a way that doesn't alienate others, thus they find company with reactionaries (and/or kill people). Whether this is real or imagined, I don't know if I can say, but I feel it's also the reason mass shootings are becoming more common.

Fox Ironic posted:

Basically, lack of cultural/conceptual identity coupled with a strong attachment to a hobby = that hobby becoming the primary identity. This can the be exploited by reactionaries such as HBD/Dark Enlightenment by "permitting" these individuals to combine their Nerd/Gamer identity with a reactionary cultural identity that they would otherwise not be inclined to embrace (Cultural Whiteness, in essence).

On a side note, I think a lot of the reason White Supremacy/HBD/Dark Enlightenment stuff is gaining steam is because it's becoming harder for more "traditionally" minded people to find positive, pro-social identity in "opressor identity sets." A lot of these people see no way to reconcile being White/Male in a way that doesn't alienate others, thus they find company with reactionaries (and/or kill people). Whether this is real or imagined, I don't know if I can say, but I feel it's also the reason mass shootings are becoming more common.

quote:

Because the central character in the 1946 A. E. van Vogt novel Slan was a superhumanly intelligent youth in unsympathetic surroundings, "Fans are Slans!" the unserious claim to slanhood, became a rallying cry among Third Fandom.
Fans identified with slans as a persecuted minority because of the reactions they frequently got from mundane society merely for reading that "Crazy Buck Rogers Stuff" or even reading at all – but not to the extent that they really believed fans were superhuman beings, Second Fandom's half-serious Star-Begotten claims, notwithstanding. Still, during the 1940s and '50s, when many fans were intellectual autodidacts working in blue-collar jobs, there must have been a certain comfort in thinking themselves superior to the mundanes around them.