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Indolent Bastard posted:...we are all confident that we are focused on delivering the necessary changes to address this decline. This is goddamn dreadful. I mean, it's a great demonstration of my problem with GW's current modelling - all the individual parts look OK or good, but the whole just doesn't look like it's been thought about; there's no movement in the pose, there's no clear understanding of what the dwarf is doing, it's just flyswatted to gently caress. It looks like it's been hit by a train.
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Jan 12, 2016 20:21
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So that's actual sculpt and not someone parodying it with mirror fuckery in photoshop? Because holy poo poo
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Jan 12, 2016 20:24
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What's up with both feet planted firmly on the ground. Not that anyone would bother to recast it but still.
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Jan 12, 2016 20:29
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My favourite part is the obvious gap between the torso and the beard, like lovely decade old cloth physics vidya games had.
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Jan 12, 2016 20:36
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JerryLee posted:So that's actual sculpt and not someone parodying it with mirror fuckery in photoshop? Screen captured it myself from the 360 degree view on the GW website.
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Jan 12, 2016 20:36
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I've said it before but I get really excited about painting when I look at non-restic PP stuff or warpath stuff or reaper bones dragons I look at GW AoS stuff and my brain just throws up, it's all messy detail that clashes and doesn't feel cohesive at all, I don't know how you approach painting poo poo like that but it just looks tedious I am not a very good painter mind you
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Jan 12, 2016 20:42
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Joe_Richter posted:My favourite part is the obvious gap between the torso and the beard, like lovely decade old cloth physics vidya games had. Also, where the gently caress is his chin? E: also dumbfuck flail-axes again.
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Jan 12, 2016 20:53
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It seriously looks like the CAD modeller forgot to pose the model after they finished sculpting it. I can see that as the default dwarf-sized T pose.
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Jan 12, 2016 21:11
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Haven't really kept track of GW for a bit. Did AoS fail or is it still trucking along?
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Jan 12, 2016 21:19
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Azran posted:Haven't really kept track of GW for a bit. Did AoS fail or is it still trucking along? Most reports indicate it's not been selling well, but it's hard to get more than anecdotal data.
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Jan 12, 2016 21:20
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Azran posted:Haven't really kept track of GW for a bit. Did AoS fail or is it still trucking along? Yes to both.
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Jan 12, 2016 21:21
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Azran posted:Haven't really kept track of GW for a bit. Did AoS fail or is it still trucking along? Still trucking along, but it would seem to bee running out of gas. They turned a profit this year, less than they had hoped, but are continuing with their strategic initiatives to ensure long term growth. I read that as "Yes our sales are down - but we're bringing back Specialist games and everything will be fine!!" The latest FYRESLAYER DUARDIN release was universally mocked as being naked dwarves with bright orange hair, yet somehow managing to be boring.
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Jan 12, 2016 21:23
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Sir Teabag posted:The latest FYRESLAYER DUARDIN release was universally mocked as being naked dwarves with bright orange hair, yet somehow managing to be boring. This is because dwarves are pretty boring. Slayers acted as a counter-point to the dour drunkard pettiness of regular dwarves by being  as gently caress. They were a spot of originality and worked as a contrast.When the entire army is nothing BUT Slayers, and ugly ones at that, you're basically stuck with "dwarves, but orange."
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Jan 12, 2016 21:33
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grassy gnoll posted:It seriously looks like the CAD modeller forgot to pose the model after they finished sculpting it. I can see that as the default dwarf-sized T pose. The saddest part is that it's not quite symmetrical so they did this intentionally.
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Jan 12, 2016 21:36
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Sir Teabag posted:The latest FYRESLAYER DUARDIN release was universally mocked as being naked dwarves with bright orange hair, yet somehow managing to be boring. I like them, but I'm not buying any. AMA
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Jan 12, 2016 21:37
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Leperflesh posted:I'll be delving into the report in detail, but just for the moment (since that might not be for a few hours): keep in mind that declining profitability is still profitability. GW won't be in real trouble until they're actually losing money, to the point where they can't pay a dividend. That is still a long way off. I don't think anyone is expecting GW to stop existing tomorrow; I just know I'm happy to see that when they produce lovely games and models, and ignore their player's own preferences that they take a down turn.
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Jan 12, 2016 21:55
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Icon Of Sin posted:Need a good laugh? Of course you do!
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Jan 12, 2016 22:01
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Somebody should talk more about MTG. What's it like now? Is it lovely? When I was like 8 a neighbor gave me his giant pile of cards after his mom said 'the devil lived inside of them'. It was fun for a year, but they constantly re-printed rules and I thought it was dumb I had to buy more. Anyway that's my cool story. Is MTG still like that?
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Jan 12, 2016 22:10
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OK, highlights from the GW six-month report effortleperpost: First, understand that this is reporting results from May to November, 2015. That's the most important period for Age of Sigmar release and revenues, but it's also the less-important of GW's two six-month periods: like most retailers they sell more stuff during Christmas. The report is not bad. I mean that: almost all of the numbers are only changed a little from the previous May-Nov period. Currency fluctuations can legitimately be blamed for the very small (think 1-2%) changes in most of the numbers. GW did not spend an inordinate amount more on Cost of Sales, it did not see its revenues fall precipitously, there were no scary numbers anywhere. GW seems entirely capable of continuing to pay its 20p semi-annual dividend, which is the most important number for its major investors; the other being Earnings Per Share (EPS), which is actually up very slightly, from 14.5 to 14.9. A few tidbits worthy of note: -GW's licensing revenue more than doubled compared to the previous May-Nov period. This is probably due to releases of new videogames; vermintide wont' be on there yet, but some of the mobile games and stuff. It's still under 1.5M, and I've seen numbers from years and years ago that were triple that; but the next period will include some bigger titles like Vermintide, and Warhammer: Total War is coming up soon. Overall I'd expect GW's licensing revenues to be good for a while; four million pounds a year or so per year in new licensing revenues will more than offset the quite small declines we're seeing in trade and retail. -GW's business in most geographical areas is OK, but it is collapsing (particularly in Trade, which is sales through independent retailers) in Australia and New Zealand:  But be careful when reading these numbers. All of them are reported in GB Pounds, which means that the different periods (the columns) represent different sets of exchange rates. For example, the US dollar has been rising against the GB pound:  During the May to November period of 2015, the US dollar was significantly stronger (and continued to strengthen) vs. the GBP, than it was the previous year's May-Nov period. This means that, looking only at the Trade revenues, while GW made 8.7M pounds for this period vs. 8.2M pounds in the previous, US sales were probably actually lower, as measured in US dollars. (I can't say exactly how much lower because I'm not sure how often or when GW converts currency; does it continuously convert its US sales profits, or only bring over hunks of cash every six months, or what?) I can say confidently that this higher number is not a sign that sales in the US are growing. (On the other hand, the Australian dollar is actually weaker vs. the pound in 2015 vs. 2014. So the loss of revenue from Australia is actually overstated a little bit, too. It's not a huge difference, though.) What is important from these numbers, though, is that none of them are profoundly different. -GW's online sales ("Mail order") are up modestly; but the most that can be attributed to the website is about 400k pounds of increased sales. And, the Big News here: it isn't the financial report at all, but rather, the guidance given in the highlights and interim managment report. Understand that guidance is a company's way of setting expectations. The idea is, you tell your investors as soon as you can, whether they should expect good, average, or poor performance at the next report (and why). The stock price should adjust according to those expectations. Then when you release your results, assuming there are no surprises, there's no reason for a panic sell-off (or crazy buy-up) from the results. Investors expect guidance and while I'm not sure if it's actually a regulatory requirement to give it, I know of no publicly-traded company that entirely avoids giving guidance for its upcoming reports. GW's guidance is that its December sales were disappointing. quote:Trading update Given the May-Nov period's pre-tax profit was 6.3M, this means GW expects its Nov 2015-May 2016 pre-tax profit to be about 9.7M. GW's 2015 annual pre-tax profit was 16.6M. So GW is announcing that it expects to have made slightly less profit this year than last year: and, last year's profit was itself a drop from the year before. The drop is pretty small, but you generally want to see the companies you invest in growing, not shrinking. I expect GW's investors to mostly ignore this announcement. The share price may fall a little, but GW will probably keep paying the expected dividend. What GW's investors don't know or understand, is that the company is seeing declining profitibility despite absolutely slashing costs, in an environment when a number of its most important competitors are enjoying rapid growth. GW's investors don't know that because none of GW's competitors are publicly-traded companies with publicly stated, reliable financial reports. We in this thread can gather anecdotal evidence from what we see in game stores and what people are playing at conventions and tournaments, but that's not the sort of information that investors pay attention to or give much credit. Conclusion: GW is far from bankrupt. At its current rate of decline, it can cut costs and maintain profitability even while it dwindles in size. The company could sustain itself for decades. It is still not an attractive aquisition target. It still has zero debt, and in fact makes a few tens of thousands of pounds a year in profits from the interest it earns on its operating cash reserves. Kevin Rountree is not going to be fired. Age of Sigmar has not killed the company, and isn't going to kill it.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:12
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Leperflesh posted:
I could see them eventually cutting all non-UK brick & mortar stores and keeping afloat that way. I don't want them gone, I want them good, but until that happens no  for GW from me.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:17
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GW is not doing anything illegal, only immoral. For example, freezing the pays of everybody but still issuing dividends to the executives who own the majority of the stock. "Sorry, guys! Gotta tighten that belt or I won't be able to give myself a bonus!"
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Jan 12, 2016 22:20
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BULBASAUR posted:Somebody should talk more about MTG. What's it like now? Is it lovely? WoTC is basically GW that makes cards and the nerds are still running the show. Like, exactly like that. They're stuck in the past and bafflingly also stuck up their own asses in parallel. They've been trying to squeeze more money out of players, as well, so that's a thing. I mean it's on the investor panels, this box where they project how much more they've gotten and plan to get per player. The only digital magic product I play just announced a four month delay on its next patch. The catch? The game is supposed to update 3-4 months. This is the second patch. SO GOOD.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:25
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Eh, the problem is that Magic isn't great. Magic is a pretty flawed game that is just ok but can scratch the competitive card game itch and is ridiculously prominent such that you can find sanctioned events even in the most backwater towns that don't have any other kind of tabletop communities. I got back into Magic around three years ago having not played for seven or eight years prior and finally had to pull back out with the last few sets due to the comical amount of money it requires for slips of cardboard that are functional, necessary game pieces. I've been trying to wean my Magic playing buddies off of it and onto stuff like X-Wing and board games but it's an addiction that they just can't break; A lot of sunk cost fallacies going around both in terms of money spent on cards over the years, and the years of time invested themselves. It's all really unappealing right now.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:34
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Yeah I could never justify spending so much money on paper cards with reprinted rules. Don't get me wrong, I have a box full of resin toys from china, but I get to spend many hours modelling and painting those things at least.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:40
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I've played mtg off and on since unlimited (a long rear end time ago). I've been playing again since the summer. As someone who's been away for awhile the state of the game is ehhhhh. The legacy mechanics are just brutal in tyool 2016. It's crazy expensive, and I basically look at spending $12 on a draft as the equivalent of a movie, but spending larger sums on singles just reminds that I could be buying a better game or sweet miniature instead of a piece of cardboard that ultimately I won't care about in a year. The game does show how much time and money goes into development though. It's balanced and interesting when it's not tripping over its rapidly aging mechanics. Limited, i.e. booster draft and sealed, are still better than any other limited format I've played. It does hit that peculiar psychological niche of curating a collection, which is nice. The playerbase is a lot more "normal" than the last time I played, but the competitive scene still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Gareth Gobulcoque fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jan 12, 2016 |
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Jan 12, 2016 22:48
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Broken Loose posted:GW is not doing anything illegal, only immoral. Games Workshops executives do not own a majority of the stock: http://investor.games-workshop.com/shareholder-statistics/ Former CEO Tom Kirby is the largest individual shareholder; he holds 6.7% of the company. None of the other executives hold enough stock (the threshhold is 3%) to even be listed as major stakeholders. The company is mostly owned by investment companies. Tom Kirby, holding 2,134,186 shares, receives a dividend payment of 426,837 pounds when the company pays its 20p dividend. Last fiscal year, the company paid a 16p and a 20p dividend. The company is not giving its executives a bonus by continuing to pay the dividends it's been paying for a decade+. It is, instead, maintaining the interest of its majority stakeholders: e.g., its owners. You can evaluate the ethics of this as you like, but keep in mind that this is exactly how a vast number of corporations large and small conduct themselves: compensating their employees at the absolute bare minimum they can get away with, including by offshoring them, while extracting maximum value for the shareholder.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:53
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Yeah I spent far more on miniatures to just paint and enjoy than Magic in the last twelve months. Constructed formats are a lot of cash or a lot of interacting with the market, ugh.Gumdrop Larry posted:Eh, the problem is that Magic isn't great.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:54
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thespaceinvader posted:This is goddamn dreadful. I mean, it's a great demonstration of my problem with GW's current modelling - all the individual parts look OK or good, but the whole just doesn't look like it's been thought about; there's no movement in the pose, there's no clear understanding of what the dwarf is doing, it's just flyswatted to gently caress. It looks like it's been hit by a train. So they axed Slaanesh because that was too racy and now they're doing gay bondage dwarf bears in leather straps?
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Jan 12, 2016 23:19
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Leperflesh posted:Games Workshops executives do not own a majority of the stock: This is true, however a majority of the management at GW do own stock of some kind, and it is often given as part of a benefits package instead of a flat bonus. While none of them own enough to be past the reporting threshold, they instituted a pay freeze that will affect their lowest earning workers while still enabling the 'bonus' of the dividend payout to those higher in the food chain. I cannot in good faith defend that practice, as their pay scale is atrocious in the first place. Their smallest store managers (and most recent recruits) will be earning just above minimum wage as it is. Giving them the shaft while rolling out the dividend payout is terrible.
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Jan 12, 2016 23:34
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I think of a "bonus" as being a payment above and beyond what you were expecting. GW's dividend payments are longstanding and routine: they were (or should have been) figured into the total compensation at the time the stock was sold or granted to those employees and executives. In other words, it's not that GW is giving its management bonuses despite slashing employee pay: it's that GW's management is already highly compensated, and the cuts have been disproportionately placed on the employees. The dividend payment is a red herring. GW could not cut the dividend. That would be a very, very bad idea. It would be a huge signal to the market that the company is in very serious trouble financially (which it isn't). It could, however, cut executive and management pay, or freeze that pay, instead of or in addition to the freeze on employee pay.
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Jan 12, 2016 23:38
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Doesn't freezing / cutting executive and management pay also set off alarms? When the greediest people must tighten their own belts, I'd assume that looks really dire.
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Jan 13, 2016 00:13
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Leperflesh posted:It's quite reasonable to want to extract more years of enjoyment from your $700 investment in a tabletop wargame, even if newer games might have better rules. A lot of people still play Epic, but it's not always easy to find opponents, especially if you don't live in or near a big city. If GW had never killed Epic, it's reasonable to think they might have updated the rules and made more armies etc. etc. He nor any of our clubmates have any epic bullshit. It would have been all new purchases at guaranteed more $$ than DZC.
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Jan 13, 2016 00:31
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Indolent Bastard posted:...we are all confident that we are focused on delivering the necessary changes to address this decline. That thing is literally in a T pose. I've ready about lazy CAD sculpting here and wondered what was meant exactly, but this is blindingly obvious.
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Jan 13, 2016 00:58
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Spiderdrake posted:Yeah I spent far more on miniatures to just paint and enjoy than Magic in the last twelve months. Constructed formats are a lot of cash or a lot of interacting with the market, ugh. What do you mean by the community thinks that the colour pie is real? Do they seriously think that forests and oceans are giving them some sort of magical power?
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Jan 13, 2016 01:02
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moths posted:Doesn't freezing / cutting executive and management pay also set off alarms? Yes, although I'm not sure how much of that is public info for a UK company like GW. Honesly I'm not trying to defend the lovely way GW treats its employees. My argument is just that a routine dividend isn't exactly the same thing as "the executives are giving themselves huge bonuses," especially when the vast majority of dividend payout money is going to hedge funds and mutual funds etc. It'd be better to just focus on how GW continues to harp in their reports about just how important (read: haaaard) it is to find the "right" poo poo-tier garbage-pay
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Jan 13, 2016 01:04
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Captain Theron posted:What do you mean by the community thinks that the colour pie is real? Do they seriously think that forests and oceans are giving them some sort of magical power?
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Jan 13, 2016 01:11
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I'm not sure "envy" is the best word, but I could see "I hate this character because everything that has his name on it is bullshit busted" as a legit complaint.
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Jan 13, 2016 01:13
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Spiderdrake posted:But there are people who think they are blue so therefore they are smug and all that poo poo that sounds like 90s white wolf LARP material. Thankfully I don't run into that a lot, but I was once told in a magic discussion that my dislike of a character within the lore was born of envy that he, in fact, got all the good cards (I am willing to bet JerryLee or Chill la Chill or literally any magic player can guess who) which is an interesting thing for a fictional character to have over a casual player. I have never met these people, but I kinda wish I did
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Jan 13, 2016 01:35
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Thundercracker posted:I have never met these people, but I kinda wish I did I'm brown cause im poo poo, hth.
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Jan 13, 2016 01:44
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Spiderdrake posted:I'm using it as shorthand for people who believe all the hot air and bullshit that comes out of Magic's R&D and WoTC. They're full of poo poo, but a portion of the community spoons it up, which can make a lot of conversations about the game really frustrating and stupid. A lot like the quotes people source from Dakka or Bell or whatever else, where they've bought the company line and show up to vomit it into conversations. Do people still go on about the timmy/johnny/spike thing because that was real bad
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Jan 13, 2016 01:58
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