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BULBASAUR posted:Which doesn't confer over to units. Previously you could take a Cataphractii HQ, attach him to a squad of grav dudes, and then enjoy 24" range. poo poo sucks. I might change our league rules to allow it since it lets you do some interesting things. Don't. It's a terrible rule and you should feel bad.
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Jan 9, 2016 23:31
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Toughness 7 move-and-shoot quad heavy bolters with a 2+/4++ character to tank hits wasn't intended? WHAAAAAT!?!
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Jan 9, 2016 23:44
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DJ Dizzy posted:Don't. It's a terrible rule and you should feel bad. Safety Factor posted:But that doesn't make any sense and obviously wasn't the rules writers' intent. I was wondering why the new wording for Cataphractii armor was so specific, but now I guess I know. BULBASAUR, WAAC power gamer, model thrower, exploiter of mediocre rules LordAba posted:Gravs ain't that great in 30k anyways. Its true on paper. In practice it's one of the few reliable ways to break AV15/AV14 walls of death, if you can get them in range. Infiltrating breachers with grav guns is a popular way of taking down spartans and such. I'm with you though- if they tweaked the drat things a bit people wouldn't be forced to exploit poo poo like S&P to make them useful. But they won't.
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Jan 10, 2016 00:48
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Painted a ton over the last couple of days while recovering from surgery. Among other things, I just about finished this Cataphractii sergeant:     I still need to add water effects and maybe decals eventually. Once my force is further along, I will probably add some more weathering and dings, too. But for now, the painting part is done.
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Jan 11, 2016 00:14
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I am jealous of your painting. It's very smooth and clean.
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Jan 11, 2016 04:09
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I love the use of the Mk IV helmet instead of the default bare-head for that model. I may have to steal that idea for my World Eaters.
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Jan 11, 2016 04:50
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DJ Dizzy posted:I am jealous of your painting. It's very smooth and clean. Fuckin this. I wish I was patient enough to get things looking so crisp.
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Jan 11, 2016 18:54
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So, I have a pretty big Raven Guard army for 40k. I'm curious, though about RG in 30k. Now that they have a Primarch model and tons of infantry model support, I'm thinking about starting a 30k army. Are the Raven Guard any good? What book are their rules in? Do I need to buy all of the HH books?
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Jan 12, 2016 07:20
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The Sex Cannon posted:So, I have a pretty big Raven Guard army for 40k. I'm curious, though about RG in 30k. Now that they have a Primarch model and tons of infantry model support, I'm thinking about starting a 30k army. Are the Raven Guard any good? What book are their rules in? Do I need to buy all of the HH books? Their legion rules give their infantry (not including terminators) Infiltrate and Fleet while everything else (including terminators) gets Furious Charge. They can only take a limited number of tanks though. Their characters have access to master-crafted rending lightning claws, cameloline, and night vision goggles. Their unique rite gives everyone Preferred Enemy (Independent Characters), they can re-roll to see who goes first, and a bunch of their units can get drop pods. On the downside, using that rite limits the army to one heavy choice, one consul, and it can't take fortifications or allied marine detachments. I think that about covers it. I have no idea if their unique units are actually good.
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Jan 12, 2016 08:38
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Their unique units are great. Dark fury squads are cost effective for what you get, especially considering assault marines are overpriced normally- they're a very hard hitting jump pack unit. Mor Death squads are like elite recon marines and can have a nasty round of shooting. Raven Guard also get a special vehicle, the Darkwing Duckship, which is a storm eagle with lower transport capacity but is stealthy, which is really ideal for dropping said mor death squads on the flanks or on objectives. General (Internet) consensus is that Raven Guard and Imperial Fists have the strongest legion rules at the moment.
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Jan 12, 2016 17:42
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Their unique units are great. Dark fury squads are cost effective for what you get, especially considering assault marines are overpriced normally- they're a very hard hitting jump pack unit. Mor Death squads are like elite recon marines and can have a nasty round of shooting. Raven Guard also get a special vehicle, the Darkwing Duckship, which is a storm eagle with lower transport capacity but is stealthy, which is really ideal for dropping said mor death squads on the flanks or on objectives. I don't know if I'd call it consensus--Word Bearers are outstanding and a lot of people still think Iron Hands are top-tier. But Raven Guard are definitely up there. (That being said, I'm not really sure that the difference between the "best" Legion and the "worst" is really that significant these days.) Anyway, not really disagreeing, just commenting, especially since there are people out there who don't want to take the Very Best army and I wouldn't want the OP to avoid RG on that account. Also, thanks for the compliments everybody! I should have some line troops finished up by the weekend.
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Jan 12, 2016 18:02
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Tbh the only "bad" legions are the older (Book 1) legions which are not bad, the later legions are just a bit stronger. You can still make an absolutely bitching DG list for example. Emperor's Children are a bit of a red-headed stepchild at the moment, but all signs are pointing to a significant rebalance with the new Rites of War in the next book (Relentless Kakophonii as troops? Yes please).
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Jan 12, 2016 21:48
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I have to say that the more I play the more I appreciate the unpopular legion rules. On paper some of them look really mediocre, especially if you are used to 40k, but in a 30k meta they can do some really nasty poo poo. EC, for example, I have a lot of respect for. There are definitely outliers though- Word Bearers, Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, AdMech, Raven Guard, Alpha Legion, and Iron Hands. Everyone else is kinda middle of the pack except for the legions from the first book. Power creep and all that.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:25
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I think in general it's just FW getting progressively more comfortable with more interesting or unique rules. And often there's a catch, like IF and AL having great legion rules but units that range from meh to outright bleargh.* * Purely from a power perspective. Headhunters and Wardens have bitchin models
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Jan 12, 2016 22:41
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Mango Polo posted:I think in general it's just FW getting progressively more comfortable with more interesting or unique rules. And often there's a catch, like IF and AL having great legion rules but units that range from meh to outright bleargh.* What are the stronger and outlying-est AL rules, then?
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Jan 12, 2016 22:45
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Emperor's Children are really cool it's probably the Legion I'll do (hahaha)
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Jan 12, 2016 22:47
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krushgroove posted:What are the stronger and outlying-est AL rules, then? Off hand, Power Daggers are a cheap way of giving models an extra attack depending on their other weapon(s) and Coils is very restrictive but allows for a pretty shocking army. Typically they don't do any one thing amazingly, they just have a lot of neat ways to use everything else. But Lernaean Terminators are kinda bizarre and hard to use and Headhunters don't distinguish themselves from the generic unit they are based on. Raven Guard are sorta the same in that unlocking their RoW is a gigantic power boost, but on top of that they have sweet units and Mor Deytan in particular can zap stuff out of existence.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:55
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Mango Polo posted:Off hand, Power Daggers are a cheap way of giving models an extra attack depending on their other weapon(s) and Coils is very restrictive but allows for a pretty shocking army. Typically they don't do any one thing amazingly, they just have a lot of neat ways to use everything else. But Lernaean Terminators are kinda bizarre and hard to use and Headhunters don't distinguish themselves from the generic unit they are based on. The signature weird thing about the Alphas is a perk of Coils: they can steal a unique unit from another Legion, substituting the Alphas' rules in place of its home legion's rules. Not only does this mean the Alphas have access to a wide variety of powerful units (just one for the list, mind) that can fill in any holes the list is otherwise lacking, the Alphas' rules can potentially make said units much stronger than they are in their home legion. Tyrant Siege Terminators gaining Tank Hunters, for example.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:58
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krushgroove posted:What are the stronger and outlying-est AL rules, then? Stealing other legions units and making them better is also a good one: Infiltrating Pyroclasts Outflanking Invictarus Suzerains Seige Tyrants with free Tank Hunter Not to mention you can also give sergeants in these units extra attacks in close combat thanks to the power knives
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Jan 12, 2016 23:02
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Recoome posted:Emperor's Children are really cool it's probably the Legion I'll do (hahaha) The EC specific units aren't great, but then again EC has Eidolan.
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Jan 12, 2016 23:39
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EC are on my shortlist because of how useless Eidolon is in the fluff. I love loser armies.
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Jan 13, 2016 00:02
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MasterSlowPoke posted:EC are on my shortlist because of how useless Eidolon is in the fluff. I love loser armies. Same
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Jan 13, 2016 00:12
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I just dropped mad  for my EC stuff. I'll be putting together models and busting out the purple and pink paints in just a couple weeks.Can't wait. I'll be damned if I can't find Phoenix Spears for my sergeants though.
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Jan 13, 2016 00:59
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koreban posted:I just dropped mad Eldar direavenger exarch has a power armor scale spear. Good luck finding it at a decent price? I haven't found any 3rd party ones yet.
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Jan 13, 2016 01:32
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LordAba posted:Eldar direavenger exarch has a power armor scale spear. Good luck finding it at a decent price? Scavenge fantasy bits boxes?
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Jan 13, 2016 01:34
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EC rule because you can field Rylanor the Unyielding. I subscribe to the Hollywood rule of deaths; you don't see him die, so he doesn't die at Istvaan III. 
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Jan 13, 2016 02:11
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EC are cool because drugs and music is really cool
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Jan 13, 2016 02:16
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LordAba posted:Eldar direavenger exarch has a power armor scale spear. Good luck finding it at a decent price? Check kromlech.eu. They have a bunch of bits and random melee weapons and such.
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Jan 13, 2016 02:21
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I've found both Dark Elf and Blood Angels stuff to be a great source for EC bits.
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Jan 13, 2016 02:27
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Recoome posted:EC are cool because drugs and music is really cool That too. I was going to paint World Eaters, but then I tripped and ended up with all this purple and gold WHOOPS
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Jan 13, 2016 02:58
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Their unique units are great. Dark fury squads are cost effective for what you get, especially considering assault marines are overpriced normally- they're a very hard hitting jump pack unit. Mor Death squads are like elite recon marines and can have a nasty round of shooting. Raven Guard also get a special vehicle, the Darkwing Duckship, which is a storm eagle with lower transport capacity but is stealthy, which is really ideal for dropping said mor death squads on the flanks or on objectives. Which books are their rules in?
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Jan 13, 2016 03:42
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The Sex Cannon posted:Which books are their rules in? Raven Guard are in III, but the main legion list is in I. You're probably better off waiting for the updated red books to come out.
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Jan 13, 2016 03:47
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Also, from a purely pragmatic perspective, I can mix/match more current SM mans with the HH era EC because they have the Aquila on the front. The decal sheet for the EC actually looks good too. I don't read any of the HH poo poo because I am not a gigantic turbosperg but I am interested about the "Eye of the Serpent" logo for the EC. This is shown in Book 1, as well as on their decal sheet. Would this be a fairly common motif among the EC (I'm doing Traitors) or would it be extremely limited. I think it's a cool motif but I don't know much about the warrior lodges etc.
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Jan 13, 2016 04:02
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Also imagine if the Red Scorpions were actually descendant from Emperor's Children, and then like suddenly they couldn't repress their ~inner desires~ any longer and they formed the maddest rock band since David "Fulgrim" Bowie (pbuh) and called themselves the Sex Scorpions and played tasty riffs everywhere. That's a dark future I could get behind.
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Jan 13, 2016 04:05
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koreban posted:I just dropped mad Grey Knights nemesis halberds.
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Jan 13, 2016 04:20
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I have a whole bunch of those actually glad a finally decided on a legion
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Jan 13, 2016 04:21
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Would it be possible to make an army out of a mishmash of loyalist leftovers from the Istvaan III atrocity commanded by, for example, Garro?
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Jan 13, 2016 06:27
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Endman posted:Would it be possible to make an army out of a mishmash of loyalist leftovers from the Istvaan III atrocity commanded by, for example, Garro? Yeah, if you want to be a square
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Jan 13, 2016 06:30
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The shattered legions (COMING SOON) probably.
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Jan 13, 2016 06:51
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Recoome posted:Also imagine if the Red Scorpions were actually descendant from Emperor's Children, and then like suddenly they couldn't repress their ~inner desires~ any longer and they formed the maddest rock band since David "Fulgrim" Bowie (pbuh) and called themselves the Sex Scorpions and played tasty riffs everywhere. The inquisition will show up and tell them to turn down the music, leading to another Baddab War Endman posted:Would it be possible to make an army out of a mishmash of loyalist leftovers from the Istvaan III atrocity commanded by, for example, Garro? The next book is supposed to have rules for exactly that- 'shattered legions' in 30k sperg. You can take squads from different legions which depending on how they implement things could be really broken
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Jan 13, 2016 06:58
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