Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

Femtosecond posted:

We can't create affordable housing because that would make housing less expensive.

I know this is kind of a joke, but it's also kind of true and hoo boy is that a depressing thought.

# ? Jan 12, 2016 21:26

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# ? May 27, 2024 23:17

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Dreylad posted:

I know this is kind of a joke, but it's also kind of true and hoo boy is that a depressing thought.

It's not kind-of-true. It is true.

# ? Jan 12, 2016 21:34

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

But developers say if we just relax zoning and approvals and basic building codes enough they'll build so much housing it will become affordable! It's city hall that's standing in the way of affordable housing developers desperately want to build.

# ? Jan 12, 2016 21:40

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

real-estate golden goose factory farms

# ? Jan 12, 2016 21:42

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

Kafka Esq. posted:

The capital expenditure on oil in Alberta was much more limited before the announcement of just how ridiculously big the tar sands were going to be. This was announced by Oil and Gas Magazine in 2002 or so ("second largest proven reserves next to Saudi Arabia!"). Look what happens to the GDP of Canada right around the same time. I'm not saying it caused it but whoa nelly!

Oh ok, cool, thanks

# ? Jan 12, 2016 21:42

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Dreylad posted:

I know this is kind of a joke, but it's also kind of true and hoo boy is that a depressing thought.

You know you have to be cautious about decisions like that that are based on a single factor because at the same time that would potentially devalue the equity that a lot of people have in their homes right now. We have to be very, very cautious about restricting foreign investment in our country at a time where we know we need foreign investment in businesses and in resource development

# ? Jan 12, 2016 21:46

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
THE SPEECH SUPPRESSOR

Remember: it's "antisemitic" to protest genocide as long as the targets are brown.

Condo sales with no cash down payment proposed by B.C. developer

CBC posted:

A B.C. developer wants to sell condos in Metro Vancouver's red-hot real estate market to first-time buyers without the cash for a down payment, but not everyone is sure it's a good idea.

"It's just a different spin on, 'How do we provide an affordable home ownership option to buyers who otherwise can't get into the market?'" says Townline vice-president of marketing Chris Colbeck.

The company is proposing that buyers on limited incomes be allowed to purchase a unit in its Port Moody development for eight per cent less than the appraised market value.

The appraisal would be done by an independent third party, allowing the eight per cent to be used as a virtual down payment for a mortgage.

That would mean the bank would be financing 100 per cent of the cost for the buyer, says Colbeck.

The idea has already been approved by B.C. Housing, says Colbeck, and Townline is hoping the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) will approve the program as well.

...

UBC Sauder School of Business associate professor Thomas Davidoff says the program may help the developer sell the units quickly while the buyers save some cash, but he still has concerns about who is carrying the risk if the property values fall.

"CMHC normally requires some sort of down payment from the buyer because they want to know if the property value falls, the buyer will still have some equity and not default on the loan," says Davidoff.

"Otherwise CMHC has to pay the difference to the lender upon a default.� If there is a large price decline CMHC is in a first loss position."

Davidoff notes buyers without down payments have not demonstrated the ability to save, something that left many banks in deep trouble during the U.S. housing crash of 2008.

"As the U.S. housing market did better and better in the early 2000s, we saw people believe it was impossible for prices to fall. And when you believe it is impossible for prices to fall, you get into creative debt financing products that look bad in retrospect."

...

Nope, this isn't asking CMHC to underwrite subprime lending because we're not the U.S. and because

# ? Jan 12, 2016 22:17

Fuzzy Mammal: Aug 15, 2001; Lipstick Apathy

e: ^^^^ Oh Come on haha :mad:

I am a Canadian expat working a tech job AMA. No wait, please don't. In other news, nothing bad can ever come of this I'm sure:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/condo-sales-with-no-cash-down-payment-proposed-by-b-c-developer-1.3400084

quote:

A B.C. developer wants to sell condos in Metro Vancouver's red-hot real estate market to first-time buyers without the cash for a down payment, but not everyone is sure it's a good idea.

"It's just a different spin on, 'How do we provide an affordable home ownership option to buyers who otherwise can't get into the market?'" says Townline vice-president of marketing Chris Colbeck.

The company is proposing that buyers on limited incomes be allowed to purchase a unit in its Port Moody development for eight per cent less than the appraised market value.

The appraisal would be done by an independent third party, allowing the eight per cent to be used as a virtual down payment for a mortgage.

That would mean the bank would be financing 100 per cent of the cost for the buyer, says Colbeck.

The idea has already been approved by B.C. Housing, says Colbeck, and Townline is hoping the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) will approve the program as well.

"It's a partnership we've made with B.C. Housing that's providing us the ability to do this affordability program that hasn't been done before. They're the ones that have structured this program," he says.

Townline's proposal is still under review, said CMHC spokeswoman Karine LeBlanc.

Normally home buyers are required to put down a minimum of five per cent to qualify for Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation insurance, and 10 per cent for homes costing more than $500,000. It is protection that banks and other lenders insist on when providing a mortgage worth more than 80 per cent of a home's value.

In this case the CMHC may grant an exception under its flexibilities for affordable housing program, says LeBlanc, but she stops short of saying buyers could be able to buy a home without a down payment.

"Under this program, CMHC will accept a broader range of down payment sources � that means alternatives to cash from borrowers. This could include sweat equity, grants, borrowed down payments or rent-to-own payments. This is not the same thing as requiring no down payment," says LeBlanc in a statement.

UBC Sauder School of Business associate professor Thomas Davidoff says the program may help the developer sell the units quickly while the buyers save some cash, but he still has concerns about who is carrying the risk if the property values fall.

"CMHC normally requires some sort of down payment from the buyer because they want to know if the property value falls, the buyer will still have some equity and not default on the loan," says Davidoff.

"Otherwise CMHC has to pay the difference to the lender upon a default.� If there is a large price decline CMHC is in a first loss position."

Davidoff notes buyers without down payments have not demonstrated the ability to save, something that left many banks in deep trouble during the U.S. housing crash of 2008.

"As the U.S. housing market did better and better in the early 2000s, we saw people believe it was impossible for prices to fall. And when you believe it is impossible for prices to fall, you get into creative debt financing products that look bad in retrospect."

"Lenders don't have an upside in price volatility. They only have a downside, and we are in a very volatile price environment, and I would think lenders and their insurers would want to keep that in mind."

Colbeck notes the proposal would not create a second mortgage, and the eight per cent discount recognized as a down payment would not need to be repaid, but there would be other restrictions on buyers.

"The program is registered on title by a restrictive covenant to ensure that it has to be for an end user, a principal resident. You must live in the home as your principal residence for a minimum of two years. And after that two years you're free to sell your home with no restrictions at market value."

"To qualify you have to be a qualified household income. A qualified purchaser is defined as somebody with a family income that must be $65,850 or more for a one-bedroom or a one-bedroom and den, or $92,430 for a two-bedroom."

Townline is eventually hoping to offer 84 condos for pre-sale this spring, if the program is approved.

"At the moment, we are simply doing an information session," he says.

# ? Jan 12, 2016 22:19

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Kill all real estate developers and mortgage brokers, IMHO.

# ? Jan 12, 2016 22:42

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/condo-sales-with-no-cash-down-payment-proposed-by-b-c-developer-1.3400084

CBC posted:

"Under this program, CMHC will accept a broader range of down payment sources � that means alternatives to cash from borrowers. This could include sweat equity, grants, borrowed down payments or rent-to-own payments. This is not the same thing as requiring no down payment," says LeBlanc in a statement.

Finance as a discipline at CMHC: :downs:

# ? Jan 13, 2016 01:02

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

https://www.facebook.com/InfowarsReporters/posts/10153928100592577

Infowars is predicting the end of times, my FB feed is lighting up with people saying they will sell. Granted they are albertans so they have no savings but people are gullible.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 01:23

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

jm20 posted:

https://www.facebook.com/InfowarsReporters/posts/10153928100592577

Infowars is predicting the end of times, my FB feed is lighting up with people saying they will sell. Granted they are albertans so they have no savings but people are gullible.

quote:

Alex (9/11 was an Inside Job) Jones will never cover Israels involvement in 9/11. He is a disinfo agent who tells his audience the New World Order is a Nazi conspiracy, when he is broadcasted on Jew owned radio stations like Sirius XM (Who are Illuminati!) and sponsored by a bunch of Jews. Hey even our so called leader of the truth movement, who runs the biggest alternative media site is a Jew. Now how the hell can one claim Alternative media, if all of the media is run by Jews? How come we can't get a perspective that isn't tainted by international Jewry?

# ? Jan 13, 2016 01:28

Ramrod Hotshot: May 30, 2003

How has the Canadian housing bubble not imploded yet? Those Chinese investors are going to want to start selling soon if they haven't already, and oil is practically free at this point and getting cheaper.

Sorry if I missed something earlier in the thread answering this.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 01:42

Ccs: Feb 25, 2011

Morgan Stanley predicts a slide toward $20 a barrel oil. Not as bad as $16 a barrel as that other bank predicted, but still:

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/6ef2b614-b85c-11e5-b151-8e15c9a029fb.html#axzz3wvrtr5Ek

And meanwhile The Atlantic has an article about how Canadian millenials are doing better than Americans:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/01/canadian-millennials-winning/423510/

quote:

True, some of Canadian Millennials� prosperity is a matter of good luck. Home values in their country have nearly doubled in the last decade, leaving their parents more money to pass along to their children than America�s Baby Boomers had after a decade of volatile housing prices. But even that is to some extent the product of good public policy: The Economist chalks Canada�s avoidance of a housing crash to �prudent banking regulation.�

In the next few years, though, TD Bank expects this Canadian-American gap to narrow. Canada�s housing market has matured to a point where it�s hard to see it expanding substantially, whereas economists are predicting increased numbers of Millennial homeowners in the U.S.

Of course, having so much household wealth tied up in home values leaves Canadian Millennials much more vulnerable to getting hit hard by a housing crash than American Millennials. But as long as that doesn�t happen�and as long as there�s no other major economic calamity�Canada�s young people are in a very good position for the years ahead.

Oh good. Canada will be great, as long as this thing that is probably a bubble turns out not to be a bubble.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 01:43

Mantle: May 15, 2004

How come everyone glosses over the fact that a house bought in Vancouver with RMB 5 years ago needs to have net appreciated 50% in order to just break even?

Meanwhile if that money was in a diversified fund it would have increased 50% in actual value over the same time.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 01:48

the talent deficit: Dec 20, 2003; self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture

Mantle posted:

How come everyone glosses over the fact that a house bought in Vancouver with RMB 5 years ago needs to have net appreciated 50% in order to just break even?

Meanwhile if that money was in a diversified fund it would have increased 50% in actual value over the same time.

'Chinese Investor' is code for 'corrupt chinese official/businessman who needs to put his money out of the reach of the party'. That's why all these houses are being bought by kids and elderly aunts and why none of them care if there's a crash. They don't have mortgages and something is better than nothing

# ? Jan 13, 2016 01:51

Franks Happy Place: Mar 15, 2011; It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

the talent deficit posted:

'Chinese Investor' is code for 'corrupt chinese official/businessman who needs to put his money out of the reach of the party'. That's why all these houses are being bought by kids and elderly aunts and why none of them care if there's a crash. They don't have mortgages and something is better than nothing

If you take account for the fact that

a) practically nobody in China can get wealthy without being politically connected and/or mobbed up, and

b) it's literally illegal to move that much money out of China;

...and you end up with a significant proportion of these people being either corrupt, criminal, or just general dickheads.

Now I've long said that it's easier said than done for these lovely fellows to hide in Vancouver and bail on China. For one thing, the Party has a long reach, as plenty of dissidents and bookstore owners have learned. And they can hold a gun to your nainai's head back in your home village, etc. etc.

So we'll see how the chips fall when the poo poo actually starts. It could go either way.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 02:53

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Bloomberg is predicting the Canadian dollar to drop to 59 cents US.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-12/canada-dollar-falls-below-70-u-s-cents-recalling-pre-oil-boom

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:01

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/16470435/2118-WAVERLEY-AVENUE-Vancouver-British-Columbia-V5P1R5

lol

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:12

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

haha holy poo poo

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:13

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Apparently Mike do jong, bc's finance minister owns 8 properties. lol

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:31

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Cultural Imperial posted:

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/16470435/2118-WAVERLEY-AVENUE-Vancouver-British-Columbia-V5P1R5

lol

Wow, for nearly 1.2 million dollars (gotta have those 8s in there, am I right?), I can get the refrigerator and stove included?!

If I have to live in a tiny lovely house that was built 85 years ago for that price, that stove better be able to self-cook Michelin-star-quality meals, and the refrigerator better be able to suck my cock.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:31

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Cultural Imperial posted:

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/16470435/2118-WAVERLEY-AVENUE-Vancouver-British-Columbia-V5P1R5

lol

"Tenants are not aware of the sale"

"Open house Sunday, 10-4"

Nothing makes me feel more Canadian than bald-faced criminality on display, ayup.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:34

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

PT6A posted:

Wow, for nearly 1.2 million dollars (gotta have those 8s in there, am I right?), I can get the refrigerator and stove included?!

If I have to live in a tiny lovely house that was built 85 years ago for that price, that stove better be able to self-cook Michelin-star-quality meals, and the refrigerator better be able to suck my cock.

I'm sure the blissfully unaware current tenants like the stove and refrigerator well enough.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:40

James Baud: May 24, 2015; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

James Baud fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Aug 25, 2018

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:42

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

James Baud posted:

But does it really count when he had maybe a million in equity between them all since they're mostly ghetto condos in Abby/Chilliwack?

When was the last time you checked what property in chiliwack is worth?]

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:44

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Rime posted:

"Tenants are not aware of the sale"

"Open house Sunday, 10-4"

Nothing makes me feel more Canadian than bald-faced criminality on display, ayup.

Someone please go tell them.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:46

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Someone please go tell them.

I'll go drop a note in the mailbox along with a printed copy of the MLS listing tomorrow, highlighting that their house may have been illegally entered multiple times. It's pretty close to where I live. :iamafag:

Cultural Imperial posted:

When was the last time you checked what property in chiliwack is worth?]

# ? Jan 13, 2016 06:53

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

I'm the tipped-over pink lawn chair they didn't even bother to photoshop out let alone move

# ? Jan 13, 2016 07:46

Mandibular Fiasco: Oct 14, 2012

Rime posted:

I'll go drop a note in the mailbox along with a printed copy of the MLS listing tomorrow, highlighting that their house may have been illegally entered multiple times. It's pretty close to where I live. :iamafag:

Brilliant. Landlords like these need to be accountable for their behaviour.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 07:52

James Baud: May 24, 2015; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

James Baud fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Aug 25, 2018

# ? Jan 13, 2016 08:03

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

lol gently caress

# ? Jan 13, 2016 08:13

Wasting: Apr 25, 2013; The next to go

I had someone high up in the mortgage game from BMO at work today, and when he was done asking me about what I was doing, I asked him if they'd be lending like they are if the government wasn't backing loans through the CMHC.... And he laughed and I wondered why I'd wasted our time by asking if the sky is blue.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 09:34

less than three: Aug 9, 2007; Fallen Rib

Yeah some of my coworkers keep discussing buying houses so I ended up spending some time on MLS.ca looking at stuff in my area.

A 1 bedroom condo next to mine is $578,000 plus $220 month strata, and then whatever property taxes.

Vancity mortgage calculator says that would be $2,445.41/mo with 10% down, plus $220 strata, plus whatever property taxes.

I'm paying $1360 to rent. I may not be building Condo Equity but it's literally half the price to rent in Vancouver versus buying.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 09:46

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

less than three posted:

Yeah some of my coworkers keep discussing buying houses so I ended up spending some time on MLS.ca looking at stuff in my area.

A 1 bedroom condo next to mine is $578,000 plus $220 month strata, and then whatever property taxes.

Vancity mortgage calculator says that would be $2,445.41/mo with 10% down, plus $220 strata, plus whatever property taxes.

I'm paying $1360 to rent. I may not be building Condo Equity but it's literally half the price to rent in Vancouver versus buying.

Most people in the bubble don't do this basic rent vs buy calculation. Home ownership has the lots of extra costs such as condo fees or property maintenance.

the talent deficit posted:

'Chinese Investor' is code for 'corrupt chinese official/businessman who needs to put his money out of the reach of the party'. That's why all these houses are being bought by kids and elderly aunts and why none of them care if there's a crash. They don't have mortgages and something is better than nothing

A good reminder that those pricks often literally use a dufflebag with money to pay for the homes in cash since the whole thing is basically a way for corrupt chinese to stash their money overseas.

etalian fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Jan 13, 2016

# ? Jan 13, 2016 16:40

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

less than three posted:

Yeah some of my coworkers keep discussing buying houses so I ended up spending some time on MLS.ca looking at stuff in my area.

A 1 bedroom condo next to mine is $578,000 plus $220 month strata, and then whatever property taxes.

Vancity mortgage calculator says that would be $2,445.41/mo with 10% down, plus $220 strata, plus whatever property taxes.

I'm paying $1360 to rent. I may not be building Condo Equity but it's literally half the price to rent in Vancouver versus buying.

Wow way to throw money away, dummy.

I basically can't make ~*condo math*~ work at all for any reasonably livable condo fees are considered without putting an absolutely hilarious down payment.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 17:05

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

quote:

Christy Clark hints housing relief a main priority of B.C. budget

British Columbia�s high housing costs are on the government�s radar as it prepares to table its budget next month, but Premier Christy Clark is ruling out luxury or speculation taxes to cool Vancouver�s hot market.

Ms. Clark said Tuesday that housing-relief options are one of the top issues for her government, but she didn�t provide details beyond acknowledging the widespread real estate concerns of many British Columbians.

�We�re thinking of a whole range of things,� Ms. Clark said at a Vancouver news conference. �You�ll see more of it as we get closer to the [Feb. 16] budget.�

She said the government is considering measures that improve housing-market options for first-time home buyers but also retain the value of homes for current owners.

Last fall, Finance Minister Mike de Jong said the government was reviewing current thresholds for property-purchase tax levels and adjusting the $475,000 property-purchase tax exemption for first-time home buyers as potential housing-relief measures.

�We are not interested in taking steps that will see a diminishment in people�s equity, the value of their homes, but we are interested in facilitating entry into the housing market by young families, young British Columbians,� he said at a financial update last September.

B.C.�s current property-purchase tax is charged at a rate of 1 per cent for the first $200,000 of the sale price and 2 per cent for the remainder of the market value. The property-purchase tax on a property valued at $250,000 is $3,000.

First-time B.C. home buyers are currently exempt from the property-purchase tax on homes valued up to $475,000.

Ms. Clark said two-thirds of the properties in B.C.�s Lower Mainland are valued at under $450,000. �But in the City of Vancouver � in particular, on the West Side � there is clearly an affordability problem,� she said. �We want to make sure homes are affordable, particularly in the City of Vancouver.�

Earlier this month, the government raised the provincial homeowner grant threshold to $1.2-million to ensure that 91 per cent of B.C. property owners were eligible for the $570 grant to be subtracted from their property taxes.

Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson said that wasn�t enough and called for the government to take bold action in the form of luxury and speculation taxes to chill the market, in which average detached-home prices in some city neighbourhoods surpassed $2.5-million.

Ms. Clark said the province is wary of making moves that reduce the equity homeowners have accrued in their homes over the years. She suggested cities such as Vancouver look to reduce their development charges in an effort to cut house prices.

Central 1 Credit Union economist Bryan Yu said increasing first-time home-buyer property-tax exemptions above $475,000 and raising property-purchase-tax thresholds are incentives for home buyers and likely won�t stop rising prices in Vancouver.

�In the back-drop to this is actually lower levels of inventory and quite low supply levels in the market,� he said. �That�s what�s really driving this upward momentum in home prices.�

Looking forward to seeing those property price spikes after these new housing subsidies pass.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 17:32

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

It's okay, the bubble will pop soon regardless.

# ? Jan 13, 2016 17:35

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

Lol, completely and shamelessly in the pockets of developers and realtors(tm)

# ? Jan 13, 2016 17:37

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# ? May 27, 2024 23:17

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

etalian posted:

A good reminder that those pricks often literally use a dufflebag with money to pay for the homes in cash since the whole thing is basically a way for corrupt chinese to stash their money overseas.

Yan's recent study kinda debunked this.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Bank+mortgages+bags+cash+behind+mainland+Chinese+home+buys+study/11485324/story.html?__lsa=22a8-3d9d

quote:

Yan describes the neighbourhoods he looked at for this case study as the centre of mainland Chinese buying. But he said he was surprised to find 82 per cent of the homes sales he looked at held a mortgage and that three Canadian banks account for almost 70 per cent of the financing was surprising.

�I would love to dig (into a wider sample) and find out, �Is this normal? Or is this different?��

Yan questions the role of Canadian banks with international networks in residential real estate.

So what if, he asks, instead of the prevailing stereotype that these properties are being paid for outright in cash, �there is a whole overall system in place that enables this that is as Canadian as maple syrup?�

�It was pretty startling. This notion of people showing up with a big bag of cash isn�t really so much the case,� says Eby. �We have homemakers and students listed as buying $2-million to $3-million homes and qualifying for the mortgages.�

# ? Jan 13, 2016 17:41

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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