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Everyone in Canada with a semi-decent source of income seems to be convinced that they are getting uniquely screwed yet seem basically indifferent to the plight of actual homeless or poor people. "B-b-b-b-buuut I went to school! My situation is totally different from the people who deserve to be poor!" 
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Jan 13, 2016 20:46
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Furnaceface posted:Doctors are underpayed all across Canada, especially specialists. But to be honest your sister sounds like an entitled baby that is upset she isnt being handed the golden loving chalice after stepping out of the door. That attitude is exactly why the public is letting lovely governments cutback our healthcare system, because all they see is people making 3-10 times their annual salary complaining that they arent being handed more. Its a lovely cycle that the government (and especially lobbyists for private healthcare) is relying on to continue to claw back on the whole healthcare system. Sorry, I didn't mean she's concerned about the personal compensation so much as about the work environment. I think doctors, especially idealistic young ones, prefer working in health systems that are well funded so they can get all the tests done and have patients well cared for by nurses. Doctors in poorly funded health systems places get incidents like this which I would think makes them sad, http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/st-mary-s-hospital-vascular-surgery-patient-1.3399555
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Jan 13, 2016 20:49
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Canadian will drop to 59 cents US in 2016, Macquarie forecasts quote:A day after the loonie slipped below the 70-cent US level for the first time since 2003, a forecaster at investment bank Macquarie says he expects the loonie to lose another 10 cents to reach an all-time low of 59 cents by the end of 2016. 
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Jan 13, 2016 20:56
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Helsing posted:Everyone in Canada with a semi-decent source of income seems to be convinced that they are getting uniquely screwed yet seem basically indifferent to the plight of actual homeless or poor people. Other people are also uniquely ignorant stating they hate unions but work a union job that brings them salaries and benefits resulting from decades of collective bargaining they somehow think they would've gotten anyways. Yup public bus drivers top out at 100k and you totally would've gotten there in the private sector, or your police salary would've been 100k like those us cops making 38k usd.
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Jan 13, 2016 20:56
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So our arbitrarily higher priced books will be equal to the USA price now, I hope!!!
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Jan 13, 2016 21:00
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Don't worry, I'm sure the plan to bring the dollar back to parity the LPC implied they had during the campaign will materialise any day now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ET29cP5UOI
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Jan 13, 2016 21:00
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http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/canadian-dollars-rally-shows-justin-trudeau-seen-as-no-bogeyman Justin Trudeau, the economic bogeyman.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:04
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jm20 posted:Other people are also uniquely ignorant stating they hate unions but work a union job that brings them salaries and benefits resulting from decades of collective bargaining they somehow think they would've gotten anyways. Yup public bus drivers top out at 100k and you totally would've gotten there in the private sector, or your police salary would've been 100k like those us cops making 38k usd. The other day I had to listen to a US bus driver defend his middle class salary (thanks to his union) to a random old man passenger. His very patient explanation was more or less "I used to work in a factory and make a middle class wage, then that factory closed and went overseas and I ended up in this job instead. I don't make too much money, I make about the right amount of money for a person my age and skill level. The problem is that all the other jobs that used to offer comparable incomes have been offshored, which means that I seem to make more even though in absolute terms I make the same salary I always did and the same salary somebody like me deserves." I'm not sure the passenger really got it but it was nice to see.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:05
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Pinterest Mom posted:Don't worry, I'm sure the plan to bring the dollar back to parity the LPC implied they had during the campaign will materialise any day now. eight conescutive deficets!!! 
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Jan 13, 2016 21:06
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Wait until you guys discover what automation will do to your salaries
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Jan 13, 2016 21:14
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Cultural Imperial posted:Wait until you guys discover what automation will do to your salaries I already work in automation 
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Jan 13, 2016 21:17
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Cultural Imperial posted:Wait until you guys discover what automation will do to your salaries 
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Jan 13, 2016 21:17
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Cultural Imperial posted:Wait until you guys discover what automation will do to your salaries It's cool we'll just ban Uber and life will be good forever.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:18
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Cultural Imperial posted:Wait until you guys discover what automation will do to your salaries Joke's on you plebs, I write the software.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:26
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more like dICK posted:Joke's on you plebs, I write the software. Yeah, that's a job that will never be outsourced.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:27
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I fix software made by outsourced labour. Bring it on please.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:29
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infernal machines posted:Yeah, that's a job that will never be outsourced. Outsourcing always fails because all the good programmers leave the third world.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:30
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more like dICK posted:Outsourcing always fails because all the good programmers leave the third world. I got to audit some work done by some outsourced programmers recently. It was like staring into the sun.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:31
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Yes, this is a scenario which will never change. Good catch guys. Don't get me wrong, I'm aware of why previously outsourced departments are retuning to NA, I'm just saying don't expect that to last.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:32
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more like dICK posted:Outsourcing always fails because all the good programmers leave the third world. There are only so many h1b's a company can get friend.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:51
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infernal machines posted:Yes, this is a scenario which will never change. Good catch guys. People assuming things will continue as they always have is a very common error in judgement regardless of what you're doing. Building a house? Why would our oil based economy fail - oil's at $100 right now and will never hit $30 or go below (yes I had this conversation with someone at work) Getting a trailer loan? I'm making $45k in overtime and lump sum payments from my work, and that's never going away so I'll pay it off in no time I don't have to worry about this debt for long. It's not like these people are completely stupid or anything, it's just that we're not set up for rapidly changing economic situations and that lack of flexibility or understanding what will happen if mortgage rates rise by 200 basis points in 5 years.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:52
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Yeah but I touch computers for a living and that is legit not ever gonna change 
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Jan 13, 2016 22:04
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infernal machines posted:Yes, this is a scenario which will never change. Good catch guys. It definitely won't change in the near future, no. At least, if you are a very good programmer and not a gigantic rear end in a top hat, you probably have job security for the rest of your working life (or at least long enough for you to make enough $$$ to retire comfortably). blah_blah fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Jan 13, 2016 |
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Jan 13, 2016 22:04
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blah_blah posted:It definitely won't change in the near future, no. At least, if you are a very good programmer and not a gigantic rear end in a top hat, you probably have job security for the rest of your working life (or at least long enough for you to make enough $$$ to retire comfortably). ...Said every North American manufacturing worker in the 1980s. So tell me, what is it about writing software that makes you so immune to the pressures of globalization and the effect it has had on literally every other industry? Hell, what is it about writing code now, that makes you immune to a collapse of the tech market, like the one that happened 15 years ago? Why is it different this time, specifically for you? infernal machines fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jan 13, 2016 |
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Jan 13, 2016 22:12
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Furnaceface posted:Doctors are underpayed all across Canada, especially specialists. But to be honest your sister sounds like an entitled baby that is upset she isnt being handed the golden loving chalice after stepping out of the door. That attitude is exactly why the public is letting lovely governments cutback our healthcare system, because all they see is people making 3-10 times their annual salary complaining that they arent being handed more. Its a lovely cycle that the government (and especially lobbyists for private healthcare) is relying on to continue to claw back on the whole healthcare system. Man you think doctors are bad, watch the press releases from faculty associations whenever they threaten to strike. It's worse. And although wage envy is pointless and drives a race to the bottom, tenure track faculty tend to comprise a good chunk of a university's operating budget.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:13
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infernal machines posted:...Said every North American manufacturing worker in the 1980s. I have clearance and speak both English and French. I don't work in the "tech market".
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Jan 13, 2016 22:20
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...you guys realize that a low dollar makes Canadian manufacturing really appealing right? Also "automation fixes everything" said by someone who's never watched a million dollar Mori break a cutter and throw an absolute hissy fit It involved a lot of oil. A lot.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:25
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more like dICK posted:I have clearance and speak both English and French. I don't work in the "tech market". Good for you, you're pretty well set for any Canadian government work, but notably your skill set extends beyond "I write code for computers". I was mostly addressing the hubris of blah_blah's post, wherein he ignores the last 30 years because tech is ascendant right this moment. MA-Horus posted:...you guys realize that a low dollar makes Canadian manufacturing really appealing right? For as long as it lasts, sure. Hopefully they haven't bulldozed all those factories they built the last time this happened. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jan 13, 2016 |
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Jan 13, 2016 22:28
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leftist heap posted:Yeah but I touch computers for a living and that is legit not ever gonna change ... I hope they're consenting. Also re: dollar and manufacturing, I know the auto companies are going to stop moving to Mexico now. Aaaaaaaaaaaany day now... Wistful of Dollars fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Jan 13, 2016 |
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Jan 13, 2016 22:29
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infernal machines posted:Good for you, you're pretty well set for any Canadian government work, but notably your skill set extends beyond "I write code for computers". I was mostly addressing the hubris of blah_blah's post, wherein he ignores the last 30 years because tech is ascendant right this moment.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:39
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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MA-Horus posted:...you guys realize that a low dollar makes Canadian manufacturing really appealing right? Theoretically yes but the peso is lower and more importantly, the cost of manufacturing is also lower in Mexico because salaries are lower. Global demand for Canadian goods and resources is really low. Good thing our housing market is so strong.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:42
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misguided rage posted:The dot com bubble wasn't the entirety of 'tech', and I'm not sure that it advances your argument to point out that tech is currently booming despite a bubble burst. Ignoring the last 30 years indeed.  Er, the point is a) it's another bubble, and b) when the last one burst it took a lot of coding jobs with it and severely depressed the wages of those that weren't lost because of the glut of candidates. The fact that after a decade many of those jobs returned doesn't mean that will happen again, or to the same extent, or at the same wages, because the developing world is becoming increasingly capable of doing much the same work, for considerably less. Counting on the quality of outsourced work remaining prohibitively low seems like a bad idea considering how that has worked out historically for other industries. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jan 13, 2016 |
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Jan 13, 2016 22:43
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Cultural Imperial posted:Theoretically yes but the peso is lower and more importantly, the cost of manufacturing is also lower in Mexico because salaries are lower. 10 years of the high dollar and other assorted economic problems like Ontario's high electricity prices have also eviscerated a lot of Canada's manufacturing capacity which means there just aren't the plants and the companies there to really benefit from the new low dollar the way there used to be. It would have to stay low for years for that capacity to start to regenerate at all, and even then only if the new facilities can outcompete Mexico which isn't likely.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:48
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infernal machines posted:...Said every North American manufacturing worker in the 1980s. Because there is much more variability between workers and much more specialized skill sets, because certain specialties (e.g. ML, distributed systems) are basically impossible to gain expertise in without working in a top academic research lab or a small handful of companies and are almost certain to remain that way for the forseeable future, and because outsourcing is associated with a gigantic drop in quality and leads to gigantic inefficiencies in coordination. Moreover, in tech, legacy systems and code often create job security for experienced programmers rather than steady advancement in technology eliminating jobs outright as they do in fields like manufacturing. I mean if you're a mediocre Javascript programmer at a no-name company, then you should probably be worried about your job prospects in the future, but if you're a high performing engineer at a top company outsourcing will almost certainly have no impact on your career.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:53
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It takes massive investment to start up manufacturing somewhere. If that base (both in physical factories but more importantly local experience) already exists it's pretty easy to grow it, but to build it up from nearly scratch takes years of expensive investment. Why invest in Canada? There's more attractive places to invest. Places with much cheaper labour, more easily bribed officials, worse regulations. You need either an amazingly developed tech and skill base, or incredibly cheap labour, to have a successful go at manufacturing. Canada has neither.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:56
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Provincial student loans now replaced with non-repayable grants in N.L. Holy moly!
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Jan 13, 2016 22:57
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blah_blah posted:I mean if you're a mediocre Javascript programmer at a no-name company, then you should probably be worried about your job prospects in the future, but if you're a high performing engineer at a top company outsourcing will almost certainly have no impact on your career. To be fair, I'm making the assumption that the folks glibly posting on somethingawful.com about their automation putting others out of work are more likely the former than the latter.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:57
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MA-Horus posted:...you guys realize that a low dollar makes Canadian manufacturing really appealing right? 1 CAD in USD, 2010-01-11: .9715 1 CAD in USD, 2016-01-11: .7015, down 27.8% 1 CAD in MXN, 2010-01-11: 12.2788 1 CAD in MXN, 2016-01-11: 12.5585, up 2.3%
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Jan 13, 2016 22:59
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Now go give them a reason to stay.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:05
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I'm not hopeful about getting into the software industry or the AAA industry based on this thread and set my sights on making indies games that hopefully earn me a living between tutoring gigs. Right now I'm working on a functional game & physics engine so I have something in my portfolio that demonstrates a wide and diverse skill set.
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