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Panzeh posted:I don't think double pancakes was ever a waac list, haha. Twin Falcons was absolutely a WAAC list during Store Champs 2013. The first tournament I went to featured 27 players and 20 Twin Falcon lists.
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Jan 14, 2016 23:56
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The Lord of Hats posted:Yeah, but tractor beams are typically a "grab thing and bring it towards you", or maybe "swing it from side to side a bit", not "push away". Thanks to spatial momentum of your ship relative to your target you can swing stuff in all sorts of directions  Strobe posted:Twin Falcons was absolutely a WAAC list during Store Champs 2013. The first tournament I went to featured 27 players and 20 Twin Falcon lists. "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Wang" - Strobe Autobiography.
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Jan 14, 2016 23:57
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WAAC Attack.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:03
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Yo, this poo poo is waac.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:04
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All this talk about TIE Defenders and Omega Leader means that I think my first post-starter sets purchases are gonna be the TIE/fo and Imperial Veterans packs.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:09
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You gonna wait a while for Veterans. Also I tried FOs for the first time and they are pretty neat. I think they are an improvement over simply taking TIE/ln with TCs but yeah, their future is in doubt thanks to the release of the Adv. Prototype will probably supplant them, which is a shame.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:15
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Dreylad posted:All this talk about TIE Defenders and Omega Leader means that I think my first post-starter sets purchases are gonna be the TIE/fo and Imperial Veterans packs. Imperial Veterans is months away from release. If you have the willpower to limit yourself to a single blister until then, I'll be impressed.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:16
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Although to be fair we know almost everything about the tie defender fixes: buy a TIE Defender blister and proxy everything
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Jan 15, 2016 00:19
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If Tractor Beam was range 1 only I guarantee they'd never be more than a passing curiosity at best, even on a TIE/D.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:21
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Kai Tave posted:If Tractor Beam was range 1 only I guarantee they'd never be more than a passing curiosity at best, even on a TIE/D. It's 1 point.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:24
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Kai Tave posted:If Tractor Beam was range 1 only I guarantee they'd never be more than a passing curiosity at best, even on a TIE/D. But range 1-2 would probably be balanced for a point. I'm not 100% sold on it getting the usual immunity from range bonuses that secondary weapons get.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:24
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Is WAAC even applicable to X-Wing? From my Warhammer days WAAC meant people straddling the razor's edge between using the poorly written rules to their advantage and outright cheating. Stuff like modeling prone soldiers to avoid line of sight, extremely generous interpretations of rules, "forgetting" to use the errata'd version of a rule and such other shady behaviors. X-Wing rules make it much harder, if not impossible, to pull off poo poo like that. It's very clear what is allowed and what is not. Granted there are also people who would use WAAC as shorthand for "YOUR LIST IS BAD AND YOU ARE BAD BECAUSE CRAFTWORLD IYANDEN WOULD NEVER FIELD SO MANY JETBIKES, FURTHERMORE,", but gently caress those guys. In any case, please do not bring disgusting scrub Warhammer terminology like "WAAC" into this beautiful and pristine game + thread. alg posted:It's 1 point. The real cost of the tractor beam is not shooting your primary weapon that round. Unless you are a powerful and handsome TIE/D 
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Jan 15, 2016 00:27
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The Star Wars verison should be SarlWAAC
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Jan 15, 2016 00:28
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It's a very situational weapon. On anything other than the TIE/D it is not going to be as good and is priced well for what it does.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:28
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Poopy Palpy posted:Imperial Veterans is months away from release. If you have the willpower to limit yourself to a single blister until then, I'll be impressed. It's true. I'm already eyeing the Gozanti. gently caress this game 
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Jan 15, 2016 00:30
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alg posted:It's 1 point. It doesn't matter. One point can buy you Veteran Instincts or Crack Shot or a lot of good stuff. The opportunity cost of "you must be using a cannon-capable ship AND equip Tractor Beam instead of any other cannon AND give up the chance to do damage unless you're flying one particular ship that isn't cheap AND you have to be at range 1 to even use it" is one AND too many.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:34
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So I uh, popped the lasers off my YT 2400 to paint it for the star wars RPG campaign and I kinda lost them, possibly to a hoover. Any idea for cool replacements that would not require any real talent to apply?
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Jan 15, 2016 00:38
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Ojetor posted:Is WAAC even applicable to X-Wing? WAAC in X-Wing is that guy who is always fudging his barrel rolls to be just so, or looks for the slightest atom of your ship to be off of the map. Not nearly as much of a thing.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:53
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Kai Tave posted:It doesn't matter. One point can buy you Veteran Instincts or Crack Shot or a lot of good stuff. The opportunity cost of "you must be using a cannon-capable ship AND equip Tractor Beam instead of any other cannon AND give up the chance to do damage unless you're flying one particular ship that isn't cheap AND you have to be at range 1 to even use it" is one AND too many. EPTs are a different slot that has a lot more options. Ion Cannons are what, 3 points? For a lesser effect. That's a comparison of opportunity costs.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:56
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Ojetor posted:Granted there are also people who would use WAAC as shorthand for "YOUR LIST IS BAD AND YOU ARE BAD BECAUSE CRAFTWORLD IYANDEN WOULD NEVER FIELD SO MANY JETBIKES, FURTHERMORE,", but gently caress those guys.  Ojetor posted:Is WAAC even applicable to X-Wing? From my Warhammer days WAAC meant people straddling the razor's edge between using the poorly written rules to their advantage and outright cheating. Stuff like modeling prone soldiers to avoid line of sight, extremely generous interpretations of rules, "forgetting" to use the errata'd version of a rule and such other shady behaviors. X-Wing rules make it much harder, if not impossible, to pull off poo poo like that. It's very clear what is allowed and what is not. In fact, the worst I've seen for X-Wing players are the few guys that are quick to beg a forgotten trigger or action and then will stonewall you if you do the same. Of course, that trick only works once and then your opponent suddenly has to live with their Z-95s have no focus or the like.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:04
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alg posted:EPTs are a different slot that has a lot more options. Ion Cannons are what, 3 points? For a lesser effect. That's a comparison of opportunity costs. I dunno if I'd say lesser, and the Ion does damage. The Tractor beam also can't drag around large based ships at all, so it's even less effective against those, where at least an Ion has the threat of making them drift after 2 hits. Edit: The worst X-Wing player we have locally is a guy who is just warhammy as gently caress. He's terrible and builds awful lists, insists they're brilliant, and then complains incessantly when they lose. If he watches you play, he will constantly give "advice" that is either wrong or a terrible idea with what's going on on the board. He's also that dude that says something sideways and then if you call him on it just goes "I was only joking man come on lighten up!" Also he actually thinks the prequels are good, so he's basically human garbage. 
Slab Squatthrust fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 01:05
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I wouldn't call ion cannons a lesser effect and they do damage. Tracto needs a follow up on the same turn, while ion sets you up in future turns and thus is a little bit more flexible.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:11
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zVxTeflon posted:2? Youre not going to hit Fel anyway if hes got his bag of tricks. Nope. But you might well strip some tokens so the second shot can hit. Or the third. Or the fourth. (Also, I so did yesterday, but mostly because that particular Fel lacked a Stealth Device for 'putting more stuff on Vader' reasons. I hit him with the tractor, slid him into range 1 of a locked focussed Redline, then shot him again doing 2 damage. The cluster missile which followed was slight overkill.)
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Jan 15, 2016 01:12
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Tekopo posted:I wouldn't call ion cannons a lesser effect and they do damage. Tracto needs a follow up on the same turn, while ion sets you up in future turns and thus is a little bit more flexible. Now, using a Tractor Beam to drop a Falcon's defense to zero so that you all but auto-hit with a pair of Ion Cannons (three Scyks, 'only' 55 points. ) sounds like an amusing little gimmick. With 45 points left, shove something big and lumbery to take advantage, or take a second Tractor Beam Scyk just in case (running total: 72 points) leaving 28 points to outfit probably a fifth Syck with an HLC, probably an ace like Serissu.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:14
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Strobe posted:Now, using a Tractor Beam to drop a Falcon's defense to zero so that you all but auto-hit with a pair of Ion Cannons (three Scyks, 'only' 55 points. I did think about doing 3 Heavy Scyks with Tractor and 4 Z-95s as a list at one point as a weird gimmick.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:33
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Tekopo posted:I wouldn't call ion cannons a lesser effect and they do damage. Tracto needs a follow up on the same turn, while ion sets you up in future turns and thus is a little bit more flexible. Yeah, this is the key thing. Tractors lose one of (arguably the biggest of) their main advantages if you don't get to shoot the same target afterwards. It's the main reason why TIE/D is just SO good. Tractor beams on a low-initiative ship without any initiative fuckery are just not going to be worth shooting with most of the time. I mean, it's not going to stop me throwing a tractor beam on say, a palpshuttle or whatever, because the opportunity where it WILL be useful will probably come up enough that the expenditure of 1 solitary point would be worth it. But it won't be the centre and linchpin of any current lists except on a TIE/D I don't think. Just maybe a BBBBz or something? E: BBBB, all with tractor beams and FCS. Could be interesting. I'm not going to try it though, I don't even own one b-wing yet.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:34
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thespaceinvader posted:Yeah, this is the key thing. Tractors lose one of (arguably the biggest of) their main advantages if you don't get to shoot the same target afterwards. It's the main reason why TIE/D is just SO good. Tractor beams on a low-initiative ship without any initiative fuckery are just not going to be worth shooting with most of the time. Can't fit it in 4bz. You could fit it in 4 Bs with FCS and tractors, though. The tractor would be an interesting range 3 try where you hope to pull them in but if not you get a TL anyway.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:35
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Panzeh posted:Can't fit it in 4bz. You could fit it in 4 Bs with FCS and tractors, though. The tractor would be an interesting range 3 try where you hope to pull them in but if not you get a TL anyway. See edit  My other current thought is using the tractor beam on the backup ship with Dengar, so that you can punt someone into his arc who then gets to choose whether to shoot and get shot back or to skip shooting at all. Either a Mist Hunter (probably 4-LOM since the stress imposition is also something you can trigger via forced movement) or Latts Razzi with Weapons Engineer and K4.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:37
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Tractor Beams get progressively worse the fewer ships you have in your squad, again excepting the TIE/D. An Ion Cannon may cost 3 points but it does guaranteed damage and ionization isn't a nothing effect. As you lose ships, or if you start with few to begin with, the Tractor Beam goes down in usefulness until the point where if you're unlucky enough to have your tractoring ship be the last one standing then you'll never use it unless you can arrange the perfect push into a rock (which isn't even guaranteed damage so you're still probably better off using the primary weapon). An Ion Cannon stays relevant through the whole game.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:58
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The Gate posted:I dunno if I'd say lesser, and the Ion does damage. The Tractor beam also can't drag around large based ships at all, so it's even less effective against those, where at least an Ion has the threat of making them drift after 2 hits. We have a similar guy it is so hard for me to play against him. Or near him. He hasn't bothered learning the rules properly, it takes 5 or 6 times to explain even simple concepts to him (like, I went through how Poe and Focus worked last night maybe 3 or 4 times and I'm still not convinced he got it). He has flown TIE fighters backwards for entire games. Several times the first few times I went he equipped upgrades without actually bothering to look at the prerequisites, or the capabilities of the ships, so he'd just pick 100 points worth of stuff and go, autothrusters on things without boost, engine upgrades on things WITH boost, epts on generics without EPT slots, cannons on things without cannons, multiple mods on the same ship, you name it. And all the while bragging loudly about how he's ONLY HERE TO HAVE FUN YOU GUYS. It's like... what else do you think I'm here for? Work? I enjoy playing this game because it's a good game, not because I like sliding minis round the table going pew pew. (Though, I do, of course). He also criticises people for painting their minis. gently caress people like that seriously. The rest of us make an effort, there are people who've only been playing a week who know the game better. E: though, I still hold that the ship designs in the prequels were good, even if the prequels themselves were lovely. Jedi starfighters were great. Heck, I even like the Naboo starfighter, though I think I'm the only one.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:07
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Does he have some sort of disability?
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Jan 15, 2016 02:30
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Tacopocalypse posted:Does he have some sort of disability? He works for MWG hth. thespaceinvader posted:E: though, I still hold that the ship designs in the prequels were good, even if the prequels themselves were lovely. Jedi starfighters were great. Heck, I even like the Naboo starfighter, though I think I'm the only one. While I'm not a fan of the Naboo ones I really was a fan of the Clone army ships myself.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:45
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thespaceinvader posted:
FFG is determined to leave money on the table for fear that prequel haters will, I don't know, burn their house down, or something. If they bought in to a Rebels wave, they could get a bunch out of a Clone Wars expansion.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:46
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Madurai posted:FFG is determined to leave money on the table for fear that prequel haters will, I don't know, burn their house down, or something. If they bought in to a Rebels wave, they could get a bunch out of a Clone Wars expansion. It's more they've just straight out said a lot of them aren't really big fans of that period so they've gone and designed stuff they've enjoyed. They rotate teams around as new staff comes on board and ultimately I wouldn't be surprise to see some come on who wants to pull a ship or two to reshape the meta or set up something new. Honestly going into that set for Scum & Villainy ships seems a good way to slip them in over time.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:49
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ShineDog posted:So I uh, popped the lasers off my YT 2400 to paint it for the star wars RPG campaign and I kinda lost them, possibly to a hoover. Tiny skulls
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Jan 15, 2016 02:51
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This all reminds me of how I had to stop playing against a friend of mine regularly because doing so was giving me an anurism. He had been playing for a year before I ever got into the game and I'm not a rules nazi by any stretch of the imagination but after about a half a dozen games against him he was making ridiculous mistakes or causing us to look up rules forcing games to a halt. I had to keep calling him on errors he was making or check over his lists and watch that he was doing things correctly constantly and it drove me nuts. It was either that or I relax and then we just end up playing a joke of a game which while occasionally entertaining would kind of kill me inside. It sucked all the fun out of playing X-Wing for me for a while. I partially take blame for things getting lovely and we're still pals, I just NEVER ask him to Wang anymore and I would really just rather play against total strangers at my LGS. Games go so much smoother and faster when you play with someone who has a grasp of the mechanics and trust that they know all the rules of their ships and pilots and then they actually do. I never new games could end in 15 minutes or less until I stopped playing against him.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:52
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Strobe posted:XXX list baby I ran your Wes/Wedge/Luke list tonight. Mauler Scourge Tur Phannon Major Rhymer with two homing missiles and extra munitions. Despite some bad flying on my end, I completely wiped him while only losing Wes. Rhymer never got a shot off because I kept ripping his target locks off, and Tur had three stress on him, taking him out of the fight for a bit. It also helped that he forgot he had a stress on Mauler (because he kept all his tokens on his cards instead of by the ship  ) so I tossed him onto an asteroid facing the wrong way.
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Jan 15, 2016 03:15
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Dreylad posted:It's true. I'm already eyeing the Gozanti. Buy the Gozanti, buy a normal Tie Fighter blister, and  people with your TIE swarms.
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Jan 15, 2016 03:17
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Madurai posted:FFG is determined to leave money on the table for fear that prequel haters will, I don't know, burn their house down, or something. If they bought in to a Rebels wave, they could get a bunch out of a Clone Wars expansion. This also presupposes that the market for Clone Wars/Prequels-era stuff is as robust as the market for TFA/Original Trilogy/EU stuff like they've been doing. I'm sure that there is an audience, but it may be less a matter of FFG caring about Star Wars purists burning their houses down as much as it is a matter of them deciding they'd rather focus their output on things they suspect will make them more money.
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Jan 15, 2016 03:22
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I ran your Wes/Wedge/Luke list tonight. Emperor_Good.wav
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Jan 15, 2016 03:25
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