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I obsessively love Air Elementalists and I wasn't losung my mimd when they lost flight, but I'm curious to know if they plan to add a new spell or something to their starting book. Is there someone who knows or somewhere I should ask?
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Jan 14, 2016 06:44
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PosSibley posted:I obsessively love Air Elementalists and I wasn't losung my mimd when they lost flight, but I'm curious to know if they plan to add a new spell or something to their starting book. No current plans that I'm aware of, though if we ever end up reforming charms, the AE book will almost certainly need to be reworked as part of that.
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Jan 14, 2016 06:52
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PleasingFungus posted:though if we ever end up reforming charms
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Jan 14, 2016 07:49
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They're all really good and on most characters a lot of them are just low investment no brainer "learn these every time" spells. like repel missiles, regeneration, etc
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Jan 14, 2016 08:11
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IronicDongz posted:They're all really good and on most characters a lot of them are just low investment no brainer "learn these every time" spells. like repel missiles, regeneration, etc
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Jan 14, 2016 08:17
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So, much to my astonishment, my GrEE isn't dead yet. I've reached XL25 and about to go into V5, but I've got some armour options I'd like to ask about. I have access to a fire dragon hide, a quicksilver hide, a storm dragon armour and my currently worn Archmagi robe. I'm thinking of switching to quicksilver due to the extra MR but I'm a bit put off by not being able to enchant it any further. Is quicksilver the way to go or should I go fire? I figure storm is a waste since I have inherent rElec. Thanks for all the help so far.
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Jan 14, 2016 11:59
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megane posted:Archmagi is okay but it's not like, amazing. It's more offensive power and you're swimming in that already. Similarly, level 9 spells are hilariously expensive for what they do. If I were you I'd get melee or more defences before sinking a billion exp into a spell that kills stuff you can already kill with bolt of fire. Firestorm can kill 5 enemies in the time it takes bolt of fire to kill one. Level 9 spells are expensive, but you can't deny that they are exceptionally good at what they do and worth the cost once you can use them. If you encounter a standard yaktaur pack in vaults as a FE, you could use fire ball/bolt to kill them in 4-6 turns, walk up to them and swing your melee weapon for some reason, or cast firestorm once. If you are letting enemies retaliate you clearly don't have too much offensive power. Obviously getting to the point where a level 9 spell is usable takes effort, but you can hardly say that it's not a huge step up from the comparatively weak level 6~ spells. And archmagi is fine. It's competing with resistance brands, troll armour, good artefacts & certain dragon hides. The later two are rare, the first is only relevant if you need & lack the resists, and troll armour isn't so much better that spending 5 enchant scrolls on it is a given. PleasingFungus posted:No current plans that I'm aware of, though if we ever end up reforming charms, the AE book will almost certainly need to be reworked as part of that. Slotting in airstrike would help make the book less empty, especially helping the gulf between shock and the good level 6 air spells. Static and Lbolt are pretty painful to rely on as primary spells. Having an option between 'level 1 power' 'melee range & self damage' or 'attract entire floor to self' would be nice. e: Unimpressed posted:So, much to my astonishment, my GrEE isn't dead yet. You're training spellcasting too much. It's good, but it's not so good that you should be prioritising it over your main schools. I reccomend you turn it down and focus your xp into one of your level 9 spells (probably earth since shatter is closer & single school) to get it online, then focus on the other. Being able to cast a level 9 spell is great, almost being able to cast two doesn't help you much. Darox fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 12:41
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Unimpressed posted:So, much to my astonishment, my GrEE isn't dead yet. I've reached XL25 and about to go into V5, but I've got some armour options I'd like to ask about. I have access to a fire dragon hide, a quicksilver hide, a storm dragon armour and my currently worn Archmagi robe. I'm firmly on the side of megane in regards to hybridizing rather than going for level nine spells. Playing a pure blaster is a perfectly viable play style, but it's definitely high risk, high reward in a game all about minimizing risk. The two builds tend to even out once you get your level 9 spell online, but there is a long and dangerous period during which you're pouring experience into skills that give fairly small returns meanwhile the dungeon is getting significantly more dangerous around you. If you start to train defense and melee at the point a blaster would start focusing on their top nuke, you'll be a lot safer in the short term and about as strong in the long term as long as you favor a fairly conservative play style (which you should if you want to actually win the game). Do note that shatter and tornado are a lot more practical than firestorm and glaciate. You save a whole lot of experience because they're only one school. On your character, I would put a little more into earth at this point to drop shatter below 10% and then focus on defense and evocations (and get staves up to 12). I will disagree with megane about the robe of the archmagi, however, especially on a gargoyle. I think AC in general tends to be slightly over-valued. No character needs AC to win the game, even if it is incredibly helpful, and a spell enhancer is a very significant boost to offense, which in turn extends your mp, which is at least as important as your hp. Gargoyles in particular work very well with robes or light armor because they have enough AC innately that shoring up EV is often a better decision focusing on more AC, regardless of the really good egos available on light armor. Edit: I've strongly recommended avoiding firestorm and glaciate in a couple of posts recently. I do think gunning for those spells increases the chance that you'll lose your character. But those spells are cool. It is absolutely worth it to learn firestorm in a three rune game for the sake of learning firestorm and blowing motherfuckers the gently caress up. Dropping the WMDs with glaciate never gets old. But I don't think it's the best strategy for consistently winning games. Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 14:46
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Spoggerific posted:I'm playing an HESk of Ashenzari, and I've cleared Orc and Lair. I've noticed that my current weapon, a short sword of speed, is starting to fall behind - even though each swing only takes 0.2 turns while hasted (I have haste castable at 8% failure), I get a lot of "you hit the X but do no damage" messages. The only other good short blade I've found is a vampiric rapier - should I switch to that, or should I consider switching to longblades since I have both crosstraining and Ashenzari's skill reassignment? My current base short blades skill is 17.4. I unfortunately haven't found any good longblades, either - my only choices there are unenchanted great swords. You should definitely switch to longblades. Shortblades aren't ideal for toe-to-toe fighting like you're trying to do. In my opinion, the HE +2 aptitude in SB is there to make a light, early investment in the skill really cheap so you can just switch to LB later without hurting too much. The book of ice is fantastic, and HE^Ash is so good for taking advantage of it. Freezing cloud is the most important spell in there for you. Getting that will also let you cast bolt of cold, which is plain, but solid and reliable ranged damage. Ozo's refrigeration is great, but you need 2 levels of cold resistance minimum to make it work and you also want to be casting it at very high power. I usually don't learn it, but when you find the right stuff to make it work, a really solid refrigerator build is just about the strongest character possible for a large chunk of the game. HE is actually okay at necromancy in spite of the -2. You still have high int and good spellcasting on a character that's decent in melee. I wouldn't try to go for necronomicon stuff, though unless you're solid everywhere else and are getting ready for extended. It's a lot of investment for spells that won't help you kill things faster. But taking death channel and simulacrum, possibly supported by agony or bolt of draining if you don't pick up other ranged attacks, works very well on a HE^Ash.
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Jan 14, 2016 15:07
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Defenses make sense, and I don't think everyone should give up defense to be the most blasty blaster they can be, but I still don't get the melee thing. You already have a source of damage. Why weaken your growth to invest in a second one? If you're seriously at a point in the late game where you are overwhelmed and your mana dries up, that's the kind of fight you wouldn't take in melee anyway. Retreat and get more mana, or use one of several mana restoration sources. If I had all the level 9 spells and a full set of all the good weapons at their respective peaks, 9/10 times I'm gonna nuke everything that comes my way, and the times I use the weapon it'll often just be because tab is the lazier option. (e: "Fighting a demon lord while using antimagic brand" is basically the best argument for weapon superiority over spells, but that's a pretty small niche) To be fair I do always do extended so I have a slightly longer view on things, but even if I was only doing a three rune game, being able to wreck vaults/crypt/depths/Zot with shatter would be more than enough reason to upgrade to it over LRD and justify not being great with a weapon. If I wanted single target irresistible damage there is always LCS, so I wouldn't even miss that niche. Darox fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 15:14
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Unimpressed has gear with freaking +10 int on it. Honestly he can go whatever route he wants since the +10 int opens up level 9 spells without any significant tradeoffs. Staff of wizardry and robe of the archmagi should let you cast both shatter and firestorm pretty quickly with good spellpower, but you'll need to invest a bit more in fire/conjurations to get firestorm safely castable even with wizardry. Shatter is an amazing spell, but firestorm doesn't mess with terrain and you don't have to worry about enemies that take reduced to no damage from shatter. You can cast firestorm on anything and it'll work, and due to how targeting and friendly fire works firestorm requires you to maintain a relatively safe distance for repeated casts. In this sense firestorm is a better "beginner" level 9 spell, I think.
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Jan 14, 2016 15:25
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So i found boots of the assassin as a enchanter/stabber, should i consider switching to long blades? I'm in the shoals now, and despite being uncannily stealthy, the majority of enemies notice me now, and my rapier of electrocution is becoming rather lacking in damage now. Which sort of long blade? Demon sword of double? demon swords are better for chars with more dex right?
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Jan 14, 2016 15:26
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Over 3 years ago I was running a Tengu skald that had like 58 EV when buffed up. So, I had just killed The Royal Jelly, grabbed the rune, than a golden eye paralyzed me through the now translucent walls of the vault and I died instantly to an acid blob. Now I always get the slimy rune in remembrance of that poor Tengu. Anyone else have a favorite death they've been holding onto forever? Or am I weird for still thinking about this drat birdman years after?
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Jan 14, 2016 16:18
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I had a Mountain Dwarf Fighter with something like 60 AC, the Shield of the Gong, and a broad axe. He once ate a crystal spear at point blank range, failed to block it, and took 0 damage anyway  Then he went into Tomb and got mobbed by summons summoning summons and was killed in a hail of torments and smites, the end.
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Jan 14, 2016 16:21
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Darox posted:Defenses make sense, and I don't think everyone should give up defense to be the most blasty blaster they can be, but I still don't get the melee thing. You already have a source of damage. Why weaken your growth to invest in a second one? If you're seriously at a point in the late game where you are overwhelmed and your mana dries up, that's the kind of fight you wouldn't take in melee anyway. Retreat and get more mana, or use one of several mana restoration sources. If I had all the level 9 spells and a full set of all the good weapons at their respective peaks, 9/10 times I'm gonna nuke everything that comes my way, and the times I use the weapon it'll often just be because tab is the lazier option. (e: "Fighting a demon lord while using antimagic brand" is basically the best argument for weapon superiority over spells, but that's a pretty small niche) Because min delay on a demon whip or enhancer staff is dirt cheap. It costs less to go from 0 to 12 in staves than it does from 22-23 in a spell school. Going from 22-23 makes your level 9 spell more reliable, which is huge, admittedly, but otherwise has little impact, but 12 in staves or M&F is enough to kill almost any enemy in the game one-on-one without the need for MP, if supported by a good weapon. If you are strong enough in melee to hold your own reliably, you can leave your primary casting skills at under 20, which will also allow you to have more defense, HP and possible more utility magic, depending on your character. Enhancer staves also require evocations, but that gets you a gigantic bag of tricks all by itself, including the ability to better regenerate MP when you need it, so it's hardly ever a waste to invest XP there. Obviously, this game supports a wide variety of play styles and I guess you feel more comfortable with very offense focused casters. That's a fun and potentially very rewarding way to play the game. But, probably as a cumulative result of countless small decisions, many people run into trouble with casters drawing more attention than they can handle then running out of MP, even with level nine spells and even with Vehumet. Unless you both know what you're doing and are good at a very aggressive play style with your blasters, I think that the hybrid approach is a more reliable way to win the game. Rushing fire storm is not only likely to get you killed from running out of MP after your 6th fireball in lair branches, it also makes you more vulnerable in zot or slime or on V: 5 when casually you blow up one group of enemies only to be ambushed by the next. The ability to soften or eliminate priority targets with powerful spells then clean up in melee may not be as flashy as the ability to blow every one up at once, but it leaves you more options for when combat rolls, terrain or your own mistakes put you in a bad position.
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Jan 14, 2016 16:55
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quote:_Antaeus, Guardian of Cocytus comes into view. He is wielding a warped short sword {flame}. What the gently caress  e: quote:Your caustic shrike claws Antaeus. Antaeus is splashed with acid. quote:Your iron giant throws Antaeusout of view! Hail Satan 666 evoke Shadows everyday 
Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 17:15
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World Famous W posted:Wait, what is wrong with charms that it is even suggested as needed reforming? After the very early game, there's basically no reason not to have your buffs (stoneskin/ozo's/cshield/etc) up constantly, but it's a real pain to keep recasting your buffs whenever they go down. The rmsl/dmsl redesign from a while back was one attempt to fix that, but that's its own can of worms - people taking off their armour to renew their buffs, then putting it back on... None of these are "hypothetical" optimal problems, to be clear; they're all problems that you run into whenever you play with charms, and then you get to choose how much you want to compromise between "most effective character" and "minimum player annoyance". We've known this was a problem for years now, but coming up with a good solution is harder. There's one approach that I think might finally have enough support to go in - it's not perfect but it's probably better than what we have now.
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Jan 14, 2016 17:20
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PleasingFungus posted:After the very early game, there's basically no reason not to have your buffs (stoneskin/ozo's/cshield/etc) up constantly, but it's a real pain to keep recasting your buffs whenever they go down. The rmsl/dmsl redesign from a while back was one attempt to fix that, but that's its own can of worms - people taking off their armour to renew their buffs, then putting it back on... Workshop it with us. We're all calm, rational players from diverse groups, PleasingFungus.
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Jan 14, 2016 17:39
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 There's something deeply gratifying about watching Dispater stumble around in confusion while a gigantic mob of spiders and bugs slooooooowly whittles him to death 
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Jan 14, 2016 18:28
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Is there any reason to design the game in a way to stop what I assume to be a tiny portion of the players who take off all their armour to cast r/dMsl, especially if that leads to general annoyance for the rest of the player base? Even so, maybe have those types of buffs drop off on chest armour removal?
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Jan 14, 2016 20:30
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You can already remove armor casting penalties on the fly by transforming into something that melds your armor; I never thought it was a big deal to "cheat" casting penalties because of this. I had a MiMo of Chei in GDA casting everything except level 9 spells safely, so I would use statue form to cast shatter and firestorm whenever I needed it. I'm sure you could do something similar with cheaper transmutations and rMsl/dMsl, but I never really bothered with that. As far as charms and removing armor: I agree with Locke. Fix it if necessary, but in all my time playing Crawl with permanent rMsl I've never been compelled to work around casting penalties by constantly switching in and out of armor. A lot of people would probably be annoyed if the fix made the respective spells worse or somehow punished other "normal" behavior. I do agree that buffs as a whole need some kind of rework though, casting regeneration repeatedly is my least favorite thing, and I just don't bother with ozo armor/stoneskin outside of very early game.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:08
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Yeah I'm not a high end player by any means but one of the reasons I prefer melee guys is because I don't have to be tinkering with buff spells all the time.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:23
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PleasingFungus posted:After the very early game, there's basically no reason not to have your buffs (stoneskin/ozo's/cshield/etc) up constantly, but it's a real pain to keep recasting your buffs whenever they go down. The rmsl/dmsl redesign from a while back was one attempt to fix that, but that's its own can of worms - people taking off their armour to renew their buffs, then putting it back on... At the very least, rmsl/dmsl should use their currently-calculated spell failure rate as well as their currently-calculated spellpower in their moment to moment resolution mechanics.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:38
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My favorite Charms suggestion was to remove the magic school altogether and distribute the effects to items / gods / other schools / whatever. Some Charms spells are fine, like Battlesphere; it could just be Conj/Summ with no other changes. But others are weird pseudospells that you cast out of combat and want to have on all the time, like Regen or rMsl. Even ignoring the need to recast them, they're super weird; spell power is all but meaningless for most of them, half of them are dull "+X AC" kinda things, and in many cases knowing the spell is just like having an infinite stack of some consumable. They'd work better as equipment or consumables, in my opinion. In fact, they already do: amulets of Regen, potions of haste, the unrand amulet that gives you rMsl, etc. are all really cool items that are really just Charms You Don't Have to Cast. Just make more of those kind of thing and dump the idea of buff spells completely.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:45
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Angry Diplomat posted:
I did that once to one of the Orb Guardians using Summon Small Animals before it got nerfed, just to prove it could be done. No confusion, just sheer meat grinding.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:55
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megane posted:My favorite Charms suggestion was to remove the magic school altogether and distribute the effects to items / gods / other schools / whatever. Some Charms spells are fine, like Battlesphere; it could just be Conj/Summ with no other changes. But others are weird pseudospells that you cast out of combat and want to have on all the time, like Regen or rMsl. Even ignoring the need to recast them, they're super weird; spell power is all but meaningless for most of them, half of them are dull "+X AC" kinda things, and in many cases knowing the spell is just like having an infinite stack of some consumable. They'd work better as equipment or consumables, in my opinion. In fact, they already do: amulets of Regen, potions of haste, the unrand amulet that gives you rMsl, etc. are all really cool items that are really just Charms You Don't Have to Cast. Just make more of those kind of thing and dump the idea of buff spells completely. Also, +AC is dull unless you are playing one of the races that is heavily armour restricted and can get great use out of those spells. I wish they worked more like rMsl or something though and were permanent with a chance of breaking on hit so I didn't have to cast at the start of every battle.
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Jan 14, 2016 22:02
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Locke Dunnegan posted:Is there any reason to design the game in a way to stop what I assume to be a tiny portion of the players who take off all their armour to cast r/dMsl, especially if that leads to general annoyance for the rest of the player base? I don't do the armour-swap trick constantly, because it's annoying. But I certainly have done it, and I've seen others do it, and when I don't do it, I'm reminded of the fact that I could be playing better, if I put in the time. Buffs dropping off when you swap body armour has been suggested, but it's very clunky, a mechanical band-aid; probably better than nothing, but we should be able to do better yet. apple posted:You can already remove armor casting penalties on the fly by transforming into something that melds your armor; I never thought it was a big deal to "cheat" casting penalties because of this. I had a MiMo of Chei in GDA casting everything except level 9 spells safely, so I would use statue form to cast shatter and firestorm whenever I needed it. I'm sure you could do something similar with cheaper transmutations and rMsl/dMsl, but I never really bothered with that. That's not really cheating anything. If you're melding your armor when casting spells that are actually used in combat (e.g. shatter, firestorm), then there's no problem. In principle, you could use a cheap tmut (spider form?) to meld your armour before casting dmsl, but that takes investment in tmut, additional spell slots, mp... a marginal advantage over just removing & replacing your armour, at best.
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Jan 14, 2016 22:16
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I'd call the turn expenditure more expensive, really.
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Jan 14, 2016 22:21
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PleasingFungus posted:I'm reminded of the fact that I could be playing better, if I put in the time. I can't back this up with actual data or anything, but the whole removing armor for buffs thing seems so incredibly minor that I can't trace any deaths in my hundreds of games back to unwillingness to use rMsl when I could have. dMsl is more understandable since it's a higher level spell, but then the jump from rMsl to dMsl doesn't feel huge purely from a standpoint of attacks dodged. PleasingFungus posted:That's not really cheating anything. If you're melding your armor when casting spells that are actually used in combat (e.g. shatter, firestorm), then there's no problem. In principle, you could use a cheap tmut (spider form?) to meld your armour before casting dmsl, but that takes investment in tmut, additional spell slots, mp... a marginal advantage over just removing & replacing your armour, at best. Right, but a blade hands transmuter could accommodate a cheap transformation like spider form and all you're really paying for is 3 MP and 3 spell slots, and some auts. That's honestly pretty cheap for a roundabout wizardry bonus. Removing body armor is universal, sure, but I don't see how it's that different from using transmutations, even when you "only" pay auts as a price for casting rMsl/dMsl there's still things that can wander into your LOS. I personally don't think it's that important of an issue to address directly, but I certainly wouldn't miss it if it goes away as part of some overall change to self-buffs.
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Jan 14, 2016 22:38
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megane posted:My favorite Charms suggestion was to remove the magic school altogether and distribute the effects to items / gods / other schools / whatever. Some Charms spells are fine, like Battlesphere; it could just be Conj/Summ with no other changes. But others are weird pseudospells that you cast out of combat and want to have on all the time, like Regen or rMsl. Even ignoring the need to recast them, they're super weird; spell power is all but meaningless for most of them, half of them are dull "+X AC" kinda things, and in many cases knowing the spell is just like having an infinite stack of some consumable. They'd work better as equipment or consumables, in my opinion. In fact, they already do: amulets of Regen, potions of haste, the unrand amulet that gives you rMsl, etc. are all really cool items that are really just Charms You Don't Have to Cast. Just make more of those kind of thing and dump the idea of buff spells completely. Why would it be better to have them as consumables and equipment you have to juggle rather than spells? That doesn't improve anything. I can already equip a ring to get more AC but I'm still going to cast ozo's armour since its a ton of extra AC that's accessible for a lot of hybrid characters without taking up an equipment slot. This bad logic is what lead to the removal of the flight spell, which has only made the game more annoying since now I have to carry around rings of flight and potions rather than having a spell I can cast to bypass that. It works better when they have penalties tied to them so its not a no-brainer to constantly have them up on every character. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 22:47
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The thought never occurred to me to unequip armor to cast buffs because it takes so goddammed long to disrobe/equip heavy armor that if I ever did that I'd get mauled by whatever came around the corner. That sounds way too micromanagey to ever be fun.
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Jan 14, 2016 22:53
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Scaramouche posted:Yeah I'm not a high end player by any means but one of the reasons I prefer melee guys is because I don't have to be tinkering with buff spells all the time.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:01
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World Famous W posted:Also, +AC is dull unless you are playing one of the races that is heavily armour restricted and can get great use out of those spells. Internet Kraken posted:I can already equip a ring to get more AC but I'm still going to cast ozo's armour since its a ton of extra AC that's accessible for a lot of hybrid characters without taking up an equipment slot. I didn't say Charms weren't powerful. Obviously Ozo's is great for characters that can cast it, but that doesn't make it interesting. It's straight-up bigger numbers with no interaction beyond the annoying bit where you have to recast it all the time. Same for Stoneskin and Phase Shift and (to some degree) Shroud and rMsl and dMsl as well. The reason they'd be better as non-spells is because all their problems stem from being A) infinite and basically free, but B) only if you press a combination of buttons every X seconds, and C) in a way that has all sorts of weird interactions with skills and body armour and transmutations (as noted by others above). Consumables and (non-jewellery) equipment avoid all these problems. It's fashionable in this thread to go "well but I'm not a HOM so this doesn't affect me  ," but this particular thing does affect you, and you specifically: almost every single character anyone ever plays could have 4ish more AC, all the time, for nothing, if we only bothered casting Stoneskin over and over and over. That's not a lot of AC, but it's not nothing either; you're taking ~2 more damage from every single attack. Stoneskin is easy enough for anyone to cast, even in the heaviest armor, with negligible training and lovely INT. Who cares if you miscast it, it's cheap as hell and you can just try again until it works. But nobody (well, almost nobody) does it, because it's annoying. So playing the game in a fun and reasonable way effectively applies -4 AC to your character. Similarly, I often train Charms/Air to get success chance and power for rMsl/dMsl. Why? They work just as well at 80% failure as they do at 5%. The only thing power does is make them last longer before I have to recast them. So I'm wasting EXP on an interface problem.Incidentally, flight as a mechanic is awful and in my opinion should be removed altogether; it's completely irrelevant to the vast majority of situations and obviously the correct choice for the rest. I get that you're pissed about it but it's a terrible example since it's not remotely like any other Charm. e: I'm not saying nuking the Charms school is the only way to fix this, or even a particularly good one, but there is a problem. megane fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 00:59
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having skills that you train to give yourself situationally useful buttons is cool; that's what spellcasting is. having some of those bonuses be things that primarily affect your character's stats, rather than damaging enemies, manipulating the environment, or moving yourself around, doesn't seem unreasonable. and, most specifically, the 'skald' archetype - the guy who's not as good at fighting as a straight melee char, but who has various buttons xhe can press to even the odds - that's good, to me, and worth preserving. [of the skald spells, I'd say that infusion, song of slaying, and spectral weapon are the spells that work best for this, though song of slaying probably needs a buff at some point. maybe shroud of golubria, though it's not too exciting...]
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Jan 15, 2016 01:14
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I agree except infusion is terrible and you only use it on like literally the first few enemies in the game, as you train towards casting spectral weapon. then you get spectral weapon castable and never cast infusion again there were some people on the tavern who were complaining about SW and calling it "tedious" which is insane to me because it's literally the most fun spell in the game imo and one of the only buff spells that really affects how you position yourself
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Jan 15, 2016 01:22
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megane posted:I didn't say Charms weren't powerful. Obviously Ozo's is great for characters that can cast it, but that doesn't make it interesting. It's straight-up bigger numbers with no interaction beyond the annoying bit where you have to recast it all the time. Same for Stoneskin and Phase Shift and (to some degree) Shroud and rMsl and dMsl as well. You seem to be missing the point. I didn't say charms weren't boring in the way they currently work. I was just saying that your idea of shifting its effects onto gear isn't any more interesting and would make the game worse. Flight is the perfect example of why; it didn't actually address any of the mechanical problems with flight in this game. It just shoved it onto an equipment slot and made it more annoying to use. Which is why saying "well just move charms onto gear and consumables" is dumb. I don't particularly like the way charms works but I definitely don't want to see it get trashed in favor of another equally terrible system, because that seems to be a bad trend with a lot of these recent reworks.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:27
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IronicDongz posted:On all non-trog melee dudes you should be casting at least some buff spells if you want to win. like repel missiles and regen Oh yeah, when you're getting into the poo poo as it were, sure. But being a high level MiFi doing Orc or Lair you can generally get by until a Sorcerer/High Priest/Warlord/Hydra etc shows up. You don't need those buffs generally to survive turn to turn like you might on some squishier casters.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:33
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As someone who uses almost nothing but Tengus I got to say hearing someone suggest to removing flight all together makes me very sad.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:39
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They should remove all the mandatory flight vaults at the very least. Cocytus is super annoying now because some of the bottom floors are designed around the assumption you will have flight. Flight potions don't last anywhere near long enough to get you through the entire level so you pretty much have too throw on a ring of flight. It sucks.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:41
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So I've now taken a couple TeCjs past Lair, and I think I'm doing something wrong. I feel like I'm running out of steam when I get to the Lair branches. I have enough damage to get through Orc, but after that poo poo is just not dying. I've been transitioning to say Bolt spells, but those don't seem to be enough. I'm not really dying to a particular monster, it's just getting worn down by slogging it out. Maybe I'm spreading my skills out too much? But if I kept doubling down on Conjurations/Air for Freezing Cloud, I'd never have an opportunity to get up my defensive skills. I'm really not sure what to do, I think I've got a handle on the early game up to Lair:8 but beyond that I'm not sure. Here's the morgue for my last one to get anywhere: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Arivia/morgue-Arivia-20160113-015940.txt On a lark I tried TeAE instead, which was actually really fun and seemed pretty simple. Shock is good to start with, and Static Discharge is a really nice way to blow up orc warriors (if dangerous since you're going into melee). And Lightning Bolt seemed like a good spell to work towards for Lair and the rest of the mid game. I enjoyed playing it, and skilling seemed a bit easier. Would it possibly be better to start with something more directed like one of the elementalists for my first caster win, whether it be TeAE or GrEE? Here's the morgue from that run: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Arivia/morgue-Arivia-20160114-080431.txt IDK, not knowing what to do in mid-game is frustrating me and making me want to stop playing again. That's not fun. 
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Jan 15, 2016 04:16
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