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Wiz posted:Internal stability as limiter does not work, really. If it's effective enough to be a serious limiter for an experienced player, players will utterly despise it and complain until it's neutered. External limiters and time based penalties work much, much better. Can you elaborate on this? I'm very interested in this from a game design POV. What makes the one disturb experienced players while the other is okay?
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Jan 14, 2016 21:12
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Any good advice for playing in India, particularly as Vijayanagara? I can easily get to the point where I can form Bharat, but even with the permanent claims on all of India I get severely hindered by aggressive expansion, since everyone north of me is Muslim. I'm guessing that Influence and/or Humanist ideas are mandatory.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:23
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I bet players wouldn't have a visceral reaction to stab events if they didn't have that crashing cymbal to go along with them. I should consider making that the alarm tone on my phone.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:27
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Load times have substantially increased for me, I think it started a week or two ago. WTF is going on? Is it just me? The game runs fine once it actually loads, except when trying to load a save file, which crashes the client about 25% of the time.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:51
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Happy Hedonist posted:Load times have substantially increased for me, I think it started a week or two ago. WTF is going on? Is it just me? Every time someone unironically types "boni" or "bonii" in this forum, someone's client randomly gets unstable. Looks like you're the unlucky one. Sorry. YF-23 posted:bonii
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Jan 14, 2016 21:55
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YF-23 posted:I personally dislike the 50 year slower complete map discovery if your capital's in Africa. Why is that even there? Much needed nerf to Kongo IMHO.
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Jan 14, 2016 22:13
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Node posted:Every time someone unironically types "boni" or "bonii" in this forum, someone's client randomly gets unstable. Looks like you're the unlucky one. Sorry. YF-23 posted:bonii Please stop making up words and trashing my install. Also, "cheevos". 
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Jan 14, 2016 22:27
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Happy Hedonist posted:Please stop making up words and trashing my install. Also, "cheevos". But if we don't talk about the bonii how will people be able to earn their cheevii. 
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Jan 14, 2016 22:49
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Wait wait in all this I think we're forgetting the real victims: malii.
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Jan 14, 2016 22:55
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Europii Universalii IV: Adding ii to everythingii
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Jan 14, 2016 22:55
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Fintilgin posted:Europii Universalii IV: Adding ii to everythingii A bit late on that - there's already been a Europa Universalis ii
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Jan 14, 2016 23:10
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Dibujante posted:A bit late on that - there's already been a Europa Universalis ii Could have saved it for EU V.
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Jan 14, 2016 23:17
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Fister Roboto posted:Any good advice for playing in India, particularly as Vijayanagara? I can easily get to the point where I can form Bharat, but even with the permanent claims on all of India I get severely hindered by aggressive expansion, since everyone north of me is Muslim. I'm guessing that Influence and/or Humanist ideas are mandatory. The Diplo tree as well. Influence, Humanist and Diplomacy are the three trees that help out Vajayanagar the most. I haven't played as them since the Cossacks dropped though, so the Estate system may have changed the strategy I used a bit. But yeah, you want all the things that will help reduce negative opinion of you as soon as possible, especially in the religious and aggressive expansion department. I think you'd just want to beeline for State Propaganda in the Influence tree right from the start.
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Jan 14, 2016 23:32
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Agent Boogeyman posted:The Diplo tree as well. Influence, Humanist and Diplomacy are the three trees that help out Vajayanagar the most. I haven't played as them since the Cossacks dropped though, so the Estate system may have changed the strategy I used a bit. But yeah, you want all the things that will help reduce negative opinion of you as soon as possible, especially in the religious and aggressive expansion department. I think you'd just want to beeline for State Propaganda in the Influence tree right from the start. On the other hand I recommend taking Exploration first as any decent-size Indian state. You can easily get footholds in South Africa and SE Asia and split your expansion between India and beating up Indonesian or African nations, that will help your AE out by giving you other targets. Also makes for a lot easier westernization. Personally I find myself more limited by manpower than AE when playing in India, simply because it's mostly Arid or Tropical terrain meaning loads of attrition.
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Jan 14, 2016 23:37
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YF-23 posted:I personally dislike the 50 year slower complete map discovery if your capital's in Africa. Why is that even there? *pulls out diagram comparing the Teutonic and Negroid skull structure*
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Jan 15, 2016 00:17
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YF-23 posted:I personally dislike the 50 year slower complete map discovery if your capital's in Africa. Why is that even there? Because the main African states either have the Sahara in the way or are isolated mountain kingdoms like Ethiopia. How that works for Berber states or the Mamluks is beyond me tho
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Jan 15, 2016 00:24
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The whole tech system is in need of an overhaul.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:06
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Larry Parrish posted:They shouldn't have 78% though You picked like 3 +10 burgher influence options and got an unlucky extra +20 (possibly even before picking those options? I don't remember the timespans). I get if your beef is having to go check the estates tab every time an event pops, I hate that poo poo too, but the 78% basically resulted from your choices.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:06
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Whorelord posted:Because the main African states either have the Sahara in the way or are isolated mountain kingdoms like Ethiopia. How that works for Berber states or the Mamluks is beyond me tho Even then I don't see why an isolated North American tribe should have knowledge of the whole world 50 years before a west African kingdom. There's plenty other places the world over that were just as isolated that make singling out Africa as a place that gets a (barely even) later discovery date simply weird and out of place.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:48
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Presumably so that former CNs can get the reveals as well, since they wouldn't get it based on tech group now. If some isolated American tribe suddenly gets a bunch of map reveals, it's not going to make a difference anyway.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:03
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Presumably so that former CNs can get the reveals as well, since they wouldn't get it based on tech group now. If some isolated American tribe suddenly gets a bunch of map reveals, it's not going to make a difference anyway. Will it make a difference if some african minor gets map reveals?
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Jan 15, 2016 02:11
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Getting a complete map reveal in 1750 instead of 1700 itself will not make much of a difference. Which makes the choice to add that extra 50 year period all the more perplexing.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:51
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Agent Boogeyman posted:The Diplo tree as well. Influence, Humanist and Diplomacy are the three trees that help out Vajayanagar the most. I haven't played as them since the Cossacks dropped though, so the Estate system may have changed the strategy I used a bit. But yeah, you want all the things that will help reduce negative opinion of you as soon as possible, especially in the religious and aggressive expansion department. I think you'd just want to beeline for State Propaganda in the Influence tree right from the start. Yeah that's exactly what I did. Influence is really nice because you start off with a vassal that you can feed most of the key provinces you need to form Bharat (unfortunately you'd need to give up a core to feed them the northern ones), so you can focus your admin points on unlocking the second idea set and Humanism. Estates don't really change much, but they do help mitigate a really nasty historical event that raises autonomy in most of your provinces.
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Jan 15, 2016 04:27
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Regarding the map reveals, the dev diary seems to indicate that being for starting dates, not in-game dates. Unless the dev diary is just badly written. and since when do people start games after 1700?
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Jan 15, 2016 05:34
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GSD posted:and since when do people start games after 1700? The next EU4 dlc should be about alt-history events/missions and the later start dates.
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Jan 15, 2016 05:47
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It would be really nice if there was no penalty for a separate truce after call to peace goes out. It's really annoying when you're in a war with an ally that you want to keep happy and they just keep going while your WE goes through the roof.
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Jan 15, 2016 05:47
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Fister Roboto posted:It would be really nice if there was no penalty for a separate truce after call to peace goes out. It's really annoying when you're in a war with an ally that you want to keep happy and they just keep going while your WE goes through the roof. This would be wonderful. I've gotten ridiculous amounts of war exhaustion because an important ally like Austria is war leader, sitting at 99% war score and deciding to sit around another few years before they peace out for some insignificant gain. If I separate peace out, it feels like I'm just asking for them to break the alliance.
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Jan 15, 2016 05:55
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I cant believe that we as human players can get WE from Call for Peace in a war where AI is the Warleader in the first place. It just seems like it should be changed for the sake of gameplay since the player cannot affect it at all.
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Jan 15, 2016 06:44
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Can't wait for the epic bonii that'll let me get the next cheevo in muh mapmans
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Jan 15, 2016 06:50
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Larry Parrish posted:Can't wait for the epic bonii that'll let me get the next cheevo in muh mapmans bird mana
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Jan 15, 2016 07:48
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Larry Parrish posted:Can't wait for the epic bonii that'll let me get the next cheevo in muh mapmans This hurt my head a bit. I recently had a HRE Austria run with an annoying chain of events. When I attacked the Papal State, I left them defenseless against florence, which took Urbino off them. I couldn't rein in Northern Italy, as I didn't have all of the provinces under my control, the one province under Florence, a HRE member, blocked me and Italy left the Empire. Seems dumb.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:16
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50 year slower spread for Africa only applies to an inferior that hasn't had any contact with Europe, coastal states will get spread long before that.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:53
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MagnumOpus posted:Can you elaborate on this? I'm very interested in this from a game design POV. What makes the one disturb experienced players while the other is okay? The gist of it is how players perceive agency and consequense. The player views their country as an extension of themselves, so if something is wrong with that 'self', it is considered unfair unless the player did something to 'deserve' it. Gloriously conquering all their neighbours and getting massive unrest at home as a result is thus perceived highly negatively, as though the game is telling them that they're wrong for winning. External limiters, on the other hand, are viewed very differently. The player doesn't have to have screwed up to be invaded and conquered by an AI, because the AI is viewed as having its own agency and motives outside of the player's choices. Time limiters, while often muttered about, are viewed as simply part of the great impartial game rules - so long as everyone has to play by them, they're at least tolerable. None of these are hard rules mind you: There are people who are OK with internal punishments for success and others who don't think the AI should be allowed to pick on them unless they've done something to deserve it.
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Jan 15, 2016 09:05
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Wiz posted:50 year slower spread for Africa only applies to an inferior that hasn't had any contact with Europe Yeah but why?
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Jan 15, 2016 11:57
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Larry Parrish posted:Can't wait for the epic bonii that'll let me get the next cheevo in muh mapmans You forgot to include mana in there.
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Jan 15, 2016 12:35
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YF-23 posted:Yeah but why? Because it was the part of the world most isolated from Europe.
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Jan 15, 2016 13:05
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Average Bear posted:The whole tech system is in need of an overhaul. Maybe the solution is to give Europe bonuses instead of everyone else penalties.
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Jan 15, 2016 14:01
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Gort posted:Maybe the solution is to give Europe bonuses instead of everyone else penalties.
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Jan 15, 2016 14:16
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Hambilderberglar posted:Even more? I think I've not been clear. Currently the system works this way: Western Tech Group: 100% tech costs Everyone else: More than 100% tech costs Europe isn't getting bonuses in that system, they're just not getting penalised the way everyone else is. Gort fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 15:42
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Gort posted:Maybe the solution is to give Europe bonuses instead of everyone else penalties. It could be worth tying the magical "1700" date to a certain level of admin tech instead. That ties it to tech level without tying it to tech group.
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Jan 15, 2016 15:44
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