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I'm confused. Is there a cue word or phrase you have to use to get a reply from the advanced chatbot?
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Jan 15, 2016 20:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That EU stuff doesn't come across in the actual film. I was happy with maz long before hearing any behind-the-scenes. I'm literally talking about people who were working on a movie; they didn't just go "this guy goes to comic B, this chap goes to Game Y". This isn't even touching upon the hypocrisy of ruling out literal TFA facts and trivia when a significantportion of the thread has been about reading the PT script to develop their readings. SuperMechagodzilla posted:Well, feel free to describe all of Maz's 'neat characterization'. Her design and cantina are well represented and developed in accordance with her role in the movie. I dont want to waste all day explaining why to SMG of all people, so I'l just quote some of my and others' posts on Maz: turtlecrunch posted:The least convincing TFA CG character (Maz) was going to be a puppet, but they took so long figuring out her design they didn't have enough time to make it. It started as "copy Yoda" and then JJ got his high school teacher involved yada yada so she became "slightly less Yoda". Neurolimal posted:In five of the image designs she's sporting a helmet reminiscent of those from past events (most obvious being the one similar to an RFT or AT-AT driver's helmet), a common feature of six of the designs is a stuffed backpack with an old antennae sticking out (pick up news? Broadcast to pilots her bar? Old piece of junk she found?), in one design she sports a mechanical arm, being the third character (besides Grievous) to be sympathetic to droids while sporting robotic prosthesis. This all contributes to a character who follows the same path of Yoda, but accepts and is immersed by the events around her, emphasizing her role in the movie as a sumpathetic figure who acts to immerse one of the protagonists into Star Wars. Neurolimal posted:neutral owner of the mirror equivalent of the Mos cantina, CGI creation which manages and protects a bar in nowhere which protects and sustains the last bastion of practical aliens, disciple of the Light Side, hundreds of years old, Chewbacca's GF, Star Wars character in a Star Wars movie Neurolimal posted:Because Star Wars consists of more than one planet. It's her home so it doesn't need to be profitable, she is entirely opposed to living as a hermit in Yoda's style (notice that in her concept art she adorns herself in material history). She's a follower of the Light Side that approaches her faith in a way different from Yoda, but still requires spiritual solitude for self-reflection; so her nowhere-planet home is a bar offering valuable insight and conversion. Neurolimal posted:I don't have the time at the moment (patching and painting basement walls) but as a quick example that is also probably the easiest: what do you think of the fat alien and dominatrix-esque girlfriend? Do you believe they have any connection to 70's or older science fiction? What does it say about the creators of TFA that in spite of the art they homage, the woman's outfit is far more conservative/"normal" for examples of the genre, and the male is both passive and enjoys her company? Neurolimal posted:This is intentional; despite drawing reference from, the Maz cantina is vastly different in appearance, utility, and hostility from Mos Eisley cantina: Neurolimal posted:Without knowledge of her history or the statue, I can only draw from the what I see: Maz is frail and incapable of the effort required to sculpt and erect an enormous statue to herself. She does not appear rich nor does the cantina appear noble. She is defined entirely by her hospitality and advice. Her very design requires her to put faith in others to have goodwill towards her. Her knowledge and dialogue suggests an unnaturally long life. I would presume that the statue is a tribute to her, of which she willingly accepted. I'l hear your response about how maz is a one-dimensional sith lord trying to tempt Rey Christ after I finish staining a bench.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:10
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Corek posted:Also they literally say - and this flew over my head as a kid - that REPUBLIC SENATORS HAVE SEX SLAVES AND ARE CORRUPT My favorite bit of Episode 3 trivia is that is that the senators keep a bunch of droid sex-bots that are clearly visible onscreen, but never acknowledged.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:11
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Picklepuss posted:I'm confused. Is there a cue word or phrase you have to use to get a reply from the advanced chatbot? Say "Lacan" into the mirror three times.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:11
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Picklepuss posted:I'm confused. Is there a cue word or phrase you have to use to get a reply from the advanced chatbot? "Prequels" usually does it.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:14
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:My favorite bit of Episode 3 trivia is that is that the senators keep a bunch of droid sex-bots that are clearly visible onscreen, but never acknowledged. I did realize that one by the time Episode 3 rolled around.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:20
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homullus posted:Kind of like how Qui-Gon gets bopped on the head, acts surprised, and gets shanked. And then Darth Maul gets dunked on, acts surprised, and gets shanked. It's your call whether that pattern is generic or setting-specific or coincidence. Pages ago but this thread moves at lightspeed. I hadn't considered the similarities between those deaths and Grievous's. I think what stands out to me with Grievous send off is just how long he goes with basically his dick hanging out before Obi-Wan kicks him in it. Pretty pitiful end for what really should have been a boss rear end bad guy. Then again, there hasn't been a grand ending for any Star Wars bad guy so I don't know what I really expected. And I get it, I get why he died like he did. It allowed Lucas to show the weakness of Grievous's organic components despite all this mechanical wizardry keeping him alive. It was just all thrown in the trash for the pay off of seeing Obi-Wan use a blaster and say his catch phrase.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:24
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New PT reading: it's all a videogame, tensionless action is intentional because you know nothing important will happen until you beat him and get his death scene. Grievous doesn't close his chest because the rules of the game require that giant bosses have a weakpoint after taking damage The actionless and boringly shot dialogue represents the uninspired unimportant exposition cutscenes you want to skip. This was clearly conveyed to its fans, that advise you "hit the skip button" if you dont like it. The focus on non-interactive but visually appealing setpieces help to differentiate it from other FPS (first padawan swordsmen) games. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 20:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Well, feel free to describe all of Maz's 'neat characterization'. I already did; you just didn't respond.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:28
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Maz runs a truck stop. It's presumably along a reasonably well-trafficked outer rim trade route, if it's been in business for a thousand years and frequented by friendly lowlifes. Her visual design emphasizes that she is a close observer of the world, and she's aware of everyone who enters. Its location and reputation cause all sorts of people to come to her, bringing news and relics in search of their destined owners, and in this way she remains connected rather than isolated. To me, the place resembles a castle more than a temple. The statue of her thus venerates not as a divine figure but a historical one, and the flags flying over it are her patrons', not the emblem of Maz' Truck Stop. Like the ideal Jedi masters, she is humble but worthy of respect, retains a discrete identity, and uses her power for knowledge and defense. That's the real Force that surrounds, penetrates, and binds the galaxy together, and renders the ability to destroy a planet insignificant; not the tricks and nonsense and hokey religions and sorcerer's ways that can have a strong influence on the weak-minded. She's not a Force User; she's just a bodhisattva.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:33
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Yeah SMG, you can't say he hasn't posted about Maz's characterization, he's posted a lot.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:37
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:My favorite bit of Episode 3 trivia is that is that the senators keep a bunch of droid sex-bots that are clearly visible onscreen, but never acknowledged. Wait, what? I remember most of the ways the prequels showed the Senate was gross, but, um, not that.  Bongo Bill posted:the flags flying over it are her patrons', not the emblem of Maz' Truck Stop. I like this post in general but this is an especially cool observation about the flags, especially considering where we've seen the symbols on them before-- adorning the armor of bounty hunters, fluttering from podracers, etc.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:37
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Neurolimal posted:I dont want to waste all day explaining why to SMG of all people, so I'l just quote some of my and others' posts on Maz: You just used a bunch of unecessary words to repeat what I already wrote - that Maz is one of those 'hip' preachers. Her bar is actually more like a church-run community centre, etc. That's basically her job description, when characterization is about why she does this stuff, and how she relates to the other characters and to the world. Chill Penguin posted:I already did; you just didn't respond. Oh, I thought that was a different poster. Let's check it: Chill Penguin posted:Maz is rife with idiosyncrasies. She is an enigma, who continually defies each precedent set by the film. She is a hermit, yet she is surrounded by friends, colleagues, and acquaintances. She is renowned and revered as royalty to roughnecks like Han, yet she dresses and comports herself humbly. She is in tune with the Force, yet she does not follow the light or dark side, something that has never been seen in Star Wars. She is the oldest person we've ever seen, yet she crawls across the table like a child. Is Maz the embodiment of a "balanced" Force? Han doesn't 'revere' Maz, as Han approaches her as an annoyance to be dealt with (she's hard to swallow, don't look at anything, let me handle it, etc.). And Maz isn't 'neutral', because she is blatantly a supporter of the Republic. She even lists her enemies: The Sith, The Empire, and The First Order. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 20:41
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Maz is a better character than Viceroy Racist.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:43
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:And Maz isn't 'neutral', because she is blatantly a supporter of the Republic. She even lists her enemies: The Sith, The Empire, and The First Order. The ability to identify a group as evil implies allegiance to that group's enemies nor even the consideration of that group as one's own enemy. She lets the First Order informant and the Resistance informant hang out in her saloon, and she's clearly a sovereign power apart from the Republic. She is not ideologically neutral, but she is not a participant in the conflict, except insofar as results from her motivation to connect individuals with each other (such an act will naturally result in good outcomes, because that's the Force, but it certainly has nothing to do with the Republic).
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Jan 15, 2016 20:51
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You just used a bunch of unecessary words to repeat what I already wrote - that Maz is one of those 'hip' preachers. Her bar is actually more like a church-run community centre, etc. She doesn't seek conversion, she doesn't turn herself into a marketable preacher. She's an old, tiny, wrinkly alien. If your hangup is that she prefers the light side and provides a valuable yet free service, then perhaps the problem isn't her. Perhaps the problem is your disdain for the natural evolution of religions to better fit and support the community, and not the preacher offering the homeless free blankets and a leaflet. Not every religious person must dwell in a dead swamp to be good people. quote:And Maz isn't 'neutral', because she is blatantly a supporter of the Republic. She even lists her enemies: The Sith, The Empire, and The First Order. She acknowledges them as the dark side. Literally every sith member has referred to it as the dark side. She is completely incapable of harming TFO; hence the whole "cantina members getting captured" deal. A person went up to her to find the resistance and discover her destiny, it's not Maz's fault that her destiny is to meet Luke and become a Jedi.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:52
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Empress Theonora posted:Wait, what? I remember most of the ways the prequels showed the Senate was gross, but, um, not that. Gives a new meaning to Friend Besto
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Jan 15, 2016 20:53
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Han doesn't 'revere' Maz, as Han approaches her as an annoyance to be dealt with (she's hard to swallow, don't look at anything, let me handle it, etc.). Neither of these observations support your previous assertions that Maz lacks characterization (or Lucasian idiosyncrasy,) or more extremely, that she is "the worst character in Star Wars."
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Jan 15, 2016 21:02
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Bongo Bill posted:The ability to identify a group as evil implies allegiance to that group's enemies nor even the consideration of that group as one's own enemy. She lets the First Order informant and the Resistance informant hang out in her saloon, and she's clearly a sovereign power apart from the Republic. She is not ideologically neutral, but she is not a participant in the conflict, except insofar as results from her motivation to connect individuals with each other (such an act will naturally result in good outcomes, because that's the Force, but it certainly has nothing to do with the Republic). She doesn't let the informant into her bar. That's silly. In this fiction film, the castle represents a vague hippie utopia of multiculturalism and harmony with nature and whatever, and this is pointedly crushed by the First Order - albeit for no clear reason (they're trying to capture BB8, not destroy him). Maz is against the First Order, and working against them, for this very reason. Maz is presented as the 'heart' of the film, but this is at odds with her actual politics. That's why she's a bad character.
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Jan 15, 2016 21:08
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You just used a bunch of unecessary words to repeat what I already wrote - that Maz is one of those 'hip' preachers. Her bar is actually more like a church-run community centre, etc. If that's what she is, then examine why hip preachers do what they do. I mean, that's the same line that you took with Dexter Jettster, Zam Wessell, and Nute Gunray. Cool thing about how she relates to the other characters and to the world - she talks a lot about eyes and uses a lot of eye imagery, but the eyes are tools of examination, not surveillance or judgment (unlike Starkiller Base, which is a giant eye that stares you to death.) She gives her thoughts to both Finn and Rey, which are then rejected. Her wisdom is the kind where she actually considers that she might be wrong. She doesn't press the point, and she even helps Finn find a way out of the "responsible" thing to do. The main person she pressures is Han because she knows him the best. Despite all the comparisons to Yoda, I doubt the two characters would get along that well. (Though they both share some connection to Chewbacca.) Her most positive qualities are her tolerance, acceptance, and openness. You might think that's lame, but it's still there.
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Jan 15, 2016 21:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:She doesn't let the informant into her bar. That's silly. Rather than being the heart of the movie primarily, do you suppose that she's there for opposition to Han and his lifestyle? Both are retired from the Good Fight, but where she put down roots in a green, thriving forest, welcoming all types from across the galaxy, he has remained on the move, apart from civilization and Leia, on the run from most everyone (apparently) in a shipping container in the wasteland of space. A cantina drags him into the Rebellion initially, and a cantina is the beginning of his last trip. Han's famous enough to have opened Han's Bar & Grill somewhere, too, but instead chose to do the only thing he ever thought he was good at. Edit: I mean, it's literally the opposite of what Han offers Rey, at a point in the movie where she has both options right in front of her.
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Jan 15, 2016 21:27
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Soggy Cereal posted:If that's what she is, then examine why hip preachers do what they do. I mean, that's the same line that you took with Dexter Jettster, Zam Wessell, and Nute Gunray. The trouble here is that we understand how those three characters fit into a very clearly-defined Republic. (Dex is a hardworking immigrant just trying to make a living in Space America, while Zam resents the racism and sexism around her). With Maz, we have very little idea of what the Republic or the First Order represent, so she ends up ill-defined as a result. The metaphor in the film is, loosely, that Maz's castle represents the 'soul' of the Republic and its destruction is what leads Maz to 'take the sword out of storage' and join the Resistance. Of course, those scenes were cut so Maz has no arc - and the relation between the Republic, Resistance and First Order remains murky.
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Jan 15, 2016 21:39
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Twileks seem like they would have a lot of neck problems. Unless those head-tail things are hollow that poo poo would weigh a ton.
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Jan 15, 2016 23:37
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Supermechagodzilla graspin like I've never seen him or her grasp before.
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Jan 16, 2016 00:31
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From a couple pages ago but Billy Dee is voicing Lando in Rebels, so I'm sure if he was able to he would've wanted to come back.
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Jan 16, 2016 00:41
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It's rather straightforward. The conflict at Maz's castle is a microcosm of the larger conflict between the New Order and whatever. This is where the film gets exploitative, because it turns out - despite being presented as Dumb And So Goddamn Crazy - Hux is right. The Republic are traitors. Literally beneath her hippie commune, Maz is secretly working against the Republic to restore the Jedi order and the associated feudalist/monarchist society with theocratic overtones. Perhaps unintentionally, Maz is a deceptive character - in a way that does not function as satire. We're led to believe that the New Order hates multiculturalism, when it's clear that they are fairly indifferent to Maz and actually targeting the Resistance. The destruction of the castle is one of the many things - like Maz's fortune-cookie dialogue - that come across as false in the film. Like they couldn't figure out how to make Leia a good guy.
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Jan 16, 2016 00:49
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Maz is not trying to return to the feudal jedi status quo, but the ideal universe where the jedi are simply 'good' as embodied by luke and anakins ideal jedi forms. We know this because of how Maz treats droids like people with souls. They are her customers and denizens not slaves or soldiers like dexter jettsters old republic johnny rockets. Cmon that's a freebie.
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Jan 16, 2016 01:00
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's rather straightforward. How is it feudalist or monarchist? People being called "Princess" isn't enough- feudalism is a specific structure by which lands are distributed. If anything the Empire was closer to a feudal system- the "Regional Governors" effectively being equivalent to nobles with direct control over their holdings while pledging allegiance to a central ruler.
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Jan 16, 2016 01:03
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Jerkface posted:Maz is not trying to return to the feudal jedi status quo, but the ideal universe where the jedi are simply 'good' as embodied by luke and anakins ideal jedi forms. Luke seems to have abandoned the galaxy, and Anakin--for all the good he did--was Anakin. If that's the ideal that Maz wants to return to, then I can definitely understand why someone would find her "hippie commune" false.
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Jan 16, 2016 01:04
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Why are we presuming Luke is truly abandoning the galaxy? That doesn't seem like the Luke established over the years at all. If the new writers understand him at all, they'll give him some reason he's at that Jedi Temple beyond running away, even if there's a part of him that feels like a failure because of what Ben did.SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's rather straightforward. Interestingly, according to that artbook the castle was originally going to be Leia's. I guess at some point they decided to add in a middleman.
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Jan 16, 2016 01:17
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Schwarzwald posted:Luke seems to have abandoned the galaxy, and Anakin--for all the good he did--was Anakin. Luke abandoned the galaxy after failing at resurrecting the republic style jedi with a formal academy. He succeeded his goal when he was a simple wandering ronin/mystic who simply fought against the tyranny of the empire. Anakin obviously failed, but he failed because of the old jedi system. We saw how the correct jedi way would have succeeded by being shown what the republic era jedi resulted in vader, the jedi being destroyed, and evik triumphing
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Jan 16, 2016 01:19
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Maybe he failed because he wanted some sort of weird dogmatic religion.
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Jan 16, 2016 01:20
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Hollismason posted:Maybe he failed because he wanted some sort of weird dogmatic religion. So yeah, restoring the Jedi Order of old.
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Jan 16, 2016 01:23
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Hollismason posted:Maybe he failed because he wanted some sort of weird dogmatic religion. I would hope that, given how much Luke is contrasted with the Jedi of old if you watch the six other movies, he'd not make their mistakes. Given what we've seen of Luke, the fear of attachment and passion that the OG Jedi were all about doesn't seem like something he'd choose to follow. If he made mistakes I would hope they'd be different ones. Besides, we don't know how Snoke turned Ben.
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Jan 16, 2016 01:26
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Hollismason posted:Maybe he failed because he wanted some sort of weird dogmatic religion. Luke hates shrimp.
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Jan 16, 2016 01:27
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Okay, fine where are the sex Robots in the Prequels cause I have no idea what the hell people are referring to. Also, I am not going to google search Star Wars Sex Robot.
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Jan 16, 2016 01:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's rather straightforward. First Order, not New Order.
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Jan 16, 2016 01:29
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Hollismason posted:Okay, fine where are the sex Robots in the Prequels cause I have no idea what the hell people are referring to. Also, I am not going to google search Star Wars Sex Robot. They're really only extras in one or two shots.
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Jan 16, 2016 01:29
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Hollismason posted:Okay, fine where are the sex Robots in the Prequels cause I have no idea what the hell people are referring to. Also, I am not going to google search Star Wars Sex Robot.  I like how the carpet pattern makes her look like she's wearing a transparent skirt. Effectronica fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jan 16, 2016 |
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Jan 16, 2016 01:29
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You don't need to. It's projection from supermechagodzilla who is seriously struggling right now, btw
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Jan 16, 2016 01:29
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