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Hexadextrous Genestealer gunbunnies? That's disappointing because RPGs were always supposed to be the one kind of gaming where that power differential matters least, because there's supposed to be more to their combat than just lining up and blasting away, bad war style.
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Jan 16, 2016 22:05
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goatface posted:twin-linked-storm-bolter-combi weapon
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Jan 16, 2016 22:09
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If 40k had Nock Guns, I guarantee they'd beat out Stormbolters because more barrels = better. The only way it could be a more 40k gun is if it had 11 barrels, so it could be a man-portable baneblade.
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Jan 16, 2016 22:11
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NGDBSS posted:Nah, that sounds more like a really wild snazzgun. Heavy modifications to Ork weapons can get weird if you throw on all the extras. Do we need to find my ork gun that fired 80 bullets per round, and all bullets were converted into energy?
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Jan 16, 2016 22:11
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Or my Tac Marine portable AA suit, that fired over a hundred bolts a round? And it could fire specialist bolts, too.
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Jan 16, 2016 22:13
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How'd you get up to 80? From what I can tell you can get up to 32 with a kombi-deffgun, but I don't recall additional modifiers on the fire rate beyond Storm and Twin-Linked on x8 Full-Auto. (Though I am familiar with the energy conversion bit.)
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Jan 16, 2016 22:14
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goatface fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jan 16, 2016 |
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Jan 16, 2016 22:30
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I had an ork inferno pistol that, due to poor (or great) heat management, vented its extra heat in the form of a flamer shot the next round. It made it so it only fired inferno shots every other round, but it was such a neat but simple mechanic I wouldn't trade it in for a conventional one.
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Jan 16, 2016 22:49
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Ah, I'd forgotten about More Dakka. (The big reason I recall most of the Ork modifications is because our Mad Dok fit a bunch of them on his hilariously complicated gun.)
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Jan 16, 2016 22:56
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Which book is all the orky weaponry in? (And can the system be used for Heretek-built weapons?)
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Jan 16, 2016 23:15
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The bulk is in ItS and HA. You could probably reskin it and use it for heretek if you really wanted, but it would get cheesy as gently caress with more base options to apply it to.
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Jan 16, 2016 23:26
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goatface posted:The bulk is in ItS and HA. You could probably reskin it and use it for heretek if you really wanted, but it would get cheesy as gently caress with more base options to apply it to. 
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Jan 16, 2016 23:38
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Ambi posted:If 40k had Nock Guns, I guarantee they'd beat out Stormbolters because more barrels = better. The only way it could be a more 40k gun is if it had 11 barrels, so it could be a man-portable baneblade.
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Jan 16, 2016 23:51
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NGDBSS posted:"Cheesy as gently caress" is if anything understating it considering the resultant craziness from applying such effects to some of the more powerful guns out there. A lascannon with Storm and Twin-Linked? Pretty much, the only reason Ork guns getting twinlinked isn't a huge deal is because high rate of fire weapons only get like 10% more damage and the +20% accuracy makes it so an ork might actually hit something with his gun with their awful BS. Put a twin-linked single shot anything in the hands of an Arch Militant and you're looking at an easy 115 to hit, needing a 95 or lower to double your damage output with that gun. Storm single shot is double as long as you hit so noooooope.
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Jan 17, 2016 19:52
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Ambi posted:Only War changed it so full-auto gives -10 rather than +20 to BS tests, which was another Rogue Trader/early 40k RPG weirdness. wait, what do people with low BS do then?
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Jan 18, 2016 01:36
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hard counter posted:wait, what do people with low BS do then? Single shot gives +10, so do that with aim and a laser sight if they can't melee
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Jan 18, 2016 01:46
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In ow, Joe Q guardsman with 30 BS can half aim for +10, take a single shot for +10, meaning he has a 50% chance of hitting. If the target is closer than 50m, its another +10.
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Jan 18, 2016 02:13
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If they're really bad, they suppress until something is close enough to punch,
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Jan 18, 2016 02:15
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Alternately they could be put on flammer duty I guess  Pharmaskittle posted:Single shot gives +10, so do that with aim and a laser sight if they can't melee The sharpshooter firing with an accurate weapon must rack up damage pretty good then.
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Jan 18, 2016 02:23
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They do. There's even an advanced class that lets you add Accurate to any single shot, non area-of-attack weapon. One of the default weapon selections for it is a missile launcher with krak rockets
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Jan 18, 2016 02:24
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Accurate multi melta For when you need to 1-shot a great unclean one
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Jan 18, 2016 02:36
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Accurate Digital Melta, for when you need to uppercut a tank.
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Jan 18, 2016 02:58
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goatface posted:
Hitting with more than 3 shots is a bug, not a feature    E: Can't find More Dakke? Sure it's in ItS or HA? Tias fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 08:49
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hard counter posted:wait, what do people with low BS do then? Take a full aim (+20) then use a Good MIU (+10) to fire a single shot (+10) as your Reaction, using an Accurate weapon (+10) fitted with a red dot sight (+10), custom grip (+5) and modified stock (+4) while supported by your Comrade (+5) With +74 BS anybody should be able to hit the target. (You can get +69 on full auto with a heavy weapon if you swap out the red dot sight for a motion predictor, have your comrade Stabilise you instead of volleying, and get a variant pattern weapon with Accurate). The Lone Badger fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 10:51
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Rockopolis posted:Accurate Digital Melta, for when you need to uppercut a tank. Oh wow, I need to do or see this in a game.
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Jan 18, 2016 12:41
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robziel posted:Oh wow, I need to do or see this in a game. Im pretty sure since most digital weapons are like rings and poo poo uppercutting a tank with one would just lead to you vaporizing your hand when its stuck in the molten morass of what used to be a tank. At least thats how I would rule it unless they were wearing power armor or something. I mean if you want to uppercut a tank get a power fist, its pretty much literally what they were made for.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:44
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Telsa Cola posted:Im pretty sure since most digital weapons are like rings and poo poo uppercutting a tank with one would just lead to you vaporizing your hand when its stuck in the molten morass of what used to be a tank. At least thats how I would rule it unless they were wearing power armor or something. I mean if you want to uppercut a tank get a power fist, its pretty much literally what they were made for. Rule of cool man, rule of cool. 
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Jan 18, 2016 19:48
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robziel posted:Rule of cool man, rule of cool. True but I feel like doing it with a power fist would be easier in most ways? I don't have the books in front of me but I am 90% sure it would be cheaper and more accessible?
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Jan 18, 2016 19:52
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Telsa Cola posted:True but I feel like doing it with a power fist would be easier in most ways? I don't have the books in front of me but I am 90% sure it would be cheaper and more accessible? Also I feel like Only War/DH2 era Eviscerators are probably better tankfuckers compared to powerfists. Razor Sharp Tearing more than make up for any losses you would have from smaller strength scaling compared to the fist and it righteous furies harder to boot. Edit: Am I crazy or does anyone else remember a rule from I think DeathWatch that stated in effect that any melee attack done against a vehicle that did not move in the previous round always counts as hitting the rear facing due to you having enough time to square up a hit where it'll do the most damage? DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 21:10
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that would make sense as a rule since it mirrors a mechanic from traditional 40k
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Jan 18, 2016 22:10
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Telsa Cola posted:True but I feel like doing it with a power fist would be easier in most ways? I don't have the books in front of me but I am 90% sure it would be cheaper and more accessible? Then again, if you're using digi-weapons, you're probably a Rogue Trader, and since when have they given a flying gently caress about "cheap and accessible"
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Jan 19, 2016 01:48
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Telsa Cola posted:Im pretty sure since most digital weapons are like rings and poo poo uppercutting a tank with one would just lead to you vaporizing your hand when its stuck in the molten morass of what used to be a tank. At least thats how I would rule it unless they were wearing power armor or something. I mean if you want to uppercut a tank get a power fist, its pretty much literally what they were made for.
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Jan 19, 2016 08:06
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So I am pretty sure we're doing it right, but there are so many people who declare that Astropaths are garbage in Rogue Trader that it makes me worry we're missing something. Here's what we think: There's no limit to PR stacking right? The example in the book says highest bonus only so pushing's +3 replaces the guy's other thing for +1. BUT then there are rules for pushing with the Astropathic Choir and they give +5 and if that overwrites the +3 from pushing why would you ever push when using them other than to make your own life worse? As far as we can tell it's also really hard for a bad thing to happen when using powers. It's only doubles and there is thing that lets you replace any result other than "go to the really bad table" with any result you previously decided upon. When going on the really bad table there's Soul Bound to the Emperor which lets you roll +1 d10 and discard one so getting the super bad stuff also seems really difficult. You auto fail on 91+ on the Focus Power test. So being able to hit real big PR and also have it be super difficult for anything really bad to happen to you seems pretty strong combined with most of the powers? Is everybody an idiot or have we missed something to not make them actually just potentially the best class with the ability to get +60 to any roll and ask the gm for his notes with only a 1/250000 chance of the deal with the devil going wrong? I'm not saying any of these things are bad! Just general opinion on the internet is that they're awful trash from hell, while our experience in game is they're really good? Maybe it's only at low level they're awful?
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Jan 19, 2016 23:08
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You're correct that psykers are only really meh at low XP values, and even then they still start with PR 3. Once they start getting more powers, more PR (where's this example you saw, anyway?), and more ways to mitigate failures (like Aetheric Wave-Spars) they can generally kick a lot of rear end with whatever disciplines they've chosen. Granted, they're not quite the gods that psykers are in Black Crusade (Warp Staff, anyone?), but then again just about everyone can get some kind of ridiculous toy in that game. (Yes, I'll update in the BC game.)
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Jan 19, 2016 23:26
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If you push you always roll for psychic phenomena, don't know if that's core or errata. edit - errata altered so, so many powers too goatface fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 23:27
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astropathic choirs are only really relevant for sending messages or psyker shipboard actions since they don't join shore parties traditionally they also have a chance to burn out
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Jan 19, 2016 23:33
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NGDBSS posted:You're correct that psykers are only really meh at low XP values, and even then they still start with PR 3. Once they start getting more powers, more PR (where's this example you saw, anyway?), and more ways to mitigate failures (like Aetheric Wave-Spars) they can generally kick a lot of rear end with whatever disciplines they've chosen. Example is page 157 Rogue Trader Core. The text above it says "Any push can result in scores over ten, but if a psyker has more than one source increasing the final effective Psy Rating, only the highest is applied." So is 8+3 pushing the most you can get without Choir, 8+5 with? What about the talent and item that give +1 when pushing, do they both add on to make pushing +5 which is only useful if you're 5PR to get you to 10? Or do they just not do anything RAW? Is 10 the limit before only highest is applied? Or does it stack infinitely forever? If it is highest bonus only then you'll never push with a Choir so why have special rules for it? It is a bad book, written badly. goatface posted:If you push you always roll for psychic phenomena, don't know if that's core or errata. And yeah this is a thing that I have just misunderstood. With Wavespars currently the psyker is at ~30% chance to get real bad chart when he pushes to level 3. hard counter posted:astropathic choirs are only really relevant for sending messages or psyker shipboard actions since they don't join shore parties traditionally There is a ship part that increases all things by 5VU range though! But yes, they do have a chance to burn out when pushing, which if you go by the example in the core book you would never push with the Choir because the +5 they give is more than the +3 you get from pushing - hence the confusion. It's basically one example in the core book vs 2 other books, which is why I lean towards it stacking infinitely. I'm glad we've got it right though and everyone else is either stuck in low level hell or lacks imagination.
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Jan 20, 2016 00:10
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EthanSteele posted:Example is page 157 Rogue Trader Core. The text above it says "Any push can result in scores over ten, but if a psyker has more than one source increasing the final effective Psy Rating, only the highest is applied." So is 8+3 pushing the most you can get without Choir, 8+5 with? What about the talent and item that give +1 when pushing, do they both add on to make pushing +5 which is only useful if you're 5PR to get you to 10? Or do they just not do anything RAW? Is 10 the limit before only highest is applied? Or does it stack infinitely forever? If it is highest bonus only then you'll never push with a Choir so why have special rules for it? It is a bad book, written badly.
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Jan 20, 2016 00:36
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I guess you could play the choir like that for fun but I've never seen an astropathic choir run from orbit w/o its leader. The Navis Primer and Into the Storm both make reference to the choir forming around a lead, with it's members typically being too weak to function as psykers on their lonesome and that the range of the choir's actions is extended by 5VUs iirc. The lead him/herself being VUs away to begin with seems contrary to the intent of purchasing a ship component to house and link everyone in a special room. I may be miss-remembering but even casual use of the choir has rules for burn-out that get deeper with pushing.
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Jan 20, 2016 00:51
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I'm mostly inclined to go with just stack it as much as you want and if it gets too out of control put a hard cap on it or make the choir start burning out at a higher rate rather than try to keep track of what gives best number past 10.hard counter posted:I guess you could play the choir like that for fun but I've never seen an astropathic choir run from orbit w/o its leader. The Navis Primer and Into the Storm both make reference to the choir forming around a lead, with it's members typically being too weak to function as psykers on their lonesome and that the range of the choir's actions is extended by 5VUs iirc. The lead him/herself being VUs away to begin with seems contrary to the intent of purchasing a ship component to house and link everyone in a special room. Oh he would still be in it! Mind Scanning entire planets and puppet mastering anyone he found. The limiting factor beyond burn out and "how large is a VU anyway?" would be "it's dull if one dude does everything" so it would be a good one time trick.
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Jan 20, 2016 01:01
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