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ToxicSlurpee posted:On account of still completely failing to find work what are the best technologies to learn right now? I need to improve my resume and have time to learn things. Seems like Ruby on Rails and SQL are a big thing but what else? Ruby is out of favor for a bunch of different reasons. JavaScript is always a safe bet.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:54
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Ithaqua posted:Ruby is out of favor for a bunch of different reasons. JavaScript is always a safe bet. I had heard that so I never bothered looking at it but keep seeing job postings for Ruby. Should I keep staying away from it? Is JavaScript really that popular? I actually rather dislike it.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:19
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I had heard that so I never bothered looking at it but keep seeing job postings for Ruby. Should I keep staying away from it? The Ruby world shrinking, they're probably looking for maintenance developers and expect you to already know Ruby pretty well. Some of the reformed Ruby developers who frequent this thread probably have a better grasp on the situation, I just know that I stopped hearing anything about Ruby about 2 years ago. JavaScript is the language that runs literally every single web site's front end. So, yes, it's that popular.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:37
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Ithaqua posted:The Ruby world shrinking, they're probably looking for maintenance developers and expect you to already know Ruby pretty well. Some of the reformed Ruby developers who frequent this thread probably have a better grasp on the situation, I just know that I stopped hearing anything about Ruby about 2 years ago. Looks like it's time to hold my nose and learn JavaScript, then. I have a basic inkling of how it works but it's the only programming language I've genuinely disliked. What's killing Ruby?
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Jan 15, 2016 03:50
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Looks like it's time to hold my nose and learn JavaScript, then. I have a basic inkling of how it works but it's the only programming language I've genuinely disliked. Javascript is a great language if you can learn to program in Javascript and not try to code C/Java/Python/Ruby/whatever in it. Maybe learn http://iolanguage.org/ as a stepping stone into the prototypical object model and come back without pre-conceptions. Also, get Babel (https://babeljs.io/) ToxicSlurpee posted:What's killing Ruby? Nothing, it's just not a fad anymore now. If you're seeing postings for it in your area you might as well give it a shot, it's not like time invested in the language won't be applicable to anything else and Rails is a great intro to full stack web development. You can also do Python/Django which can be good because Python is used in a lot of different places for a lot of different things, especially in the U.S. Some people like to put down dynamic languages because they think that makes them "serious" developers but honestly it's irrelevant. Everything's going to move to JIT compilation anyway because static compilation is fundamentally more limited, and at that point who cares. The practical advice is to not be a person who can only work in one paradigm/language/framework/computer architecture, even if you're convinced that it's God's Gift to Man.
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Jan 15, 2016 04:37
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Anyone here have experience with IBM's IPAT Test? I applied for a summer internship and was told I need to complete this online test on number sequencing, diagrams/patterns, and problem solving with algebra. Everyone online says it's ridiculously hard. And frankly, I have very little experience with math. I studied liberal arts for my undergrad and just started a postgraduate community college course in programming. I'm guessing my chances are quite low to actually pass this thing. I hope most companies don't expect this type of thing. I was hoping for more practical questions when it came to job hunting. Here's an example of a question that was apparently on the test (find the next number in the sequence):  e: forgot to mention, 2 minutes 30 seconds to complete each question denzelcurrypower fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 04:51
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let i hug posted:Javascript is a great language if you can learn to program in Javascript and not try to code C/Java/Python/Ruby/whatever in it. Maybe learn http://iolanguage.org/ as a stepping stone into the prototypical object model and come back without pre-conceptions. For my programming education I primarily focused on theoretical stuff and math. I actually snagged a math minor and made my electives math and AI rather than more specific stuff. My primary language is C# but that's more out of convenience than anything; most of my personal stuff has been games using XNA originally and Unity now. I'm rusty but I can also do C++, Java, Assembly, Processing, HTML, CSS, and a few others that probably don't matter. I looked at Python but haven't delved into it deeply. Been meaning to but eh. I'll take a look at Babel then and learn me some more JavaScript, thanks. Is there anything else I should look at? I've been just looking at programming work in general; my web dev skills suck but I'm working on them. My biggest interests were games and AI but I just don't see jobs for them that fit my experience level. I even wrote a paper in college on AI and the like; used neural networks for pathfinding. It was neat. I live near Pittsburgh and can't afford to move so it's been a...thing. It's been very frustrating because I graduated summa cum laude and can point to things I wrote and say "yup, I did that" but struggle to even get interviews.
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Jan 15, 2016 04:53
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let i hug posted:Some people like to put down dynamic languages because they think that makes them "serious" developers but honestly it's irrelevant. Everything's going to move to JIT compilation anyway because static compilation is fundamentally more limited, and at that point who cares. let i hug posted:The practical advice is to not be a person who can only work in one paradigm/language/framework/computer architecture, even if you're convinced that it's God's Gift to Man. This is great advice, though.
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Jan 15, 2016 05:00
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I'm also an AI/math/game person, hi, I'm doing a PhD so not much help on the job front, but if ToxicSlurpee is like me I think our brains like statically typed languages because we like the confidence being able to specify how things interact through clear types and function signatures, and have the veracity of our descriptions proven back to us at compile time (to varying degrees). We're also more likely to have run into the problem of a program running for two days (especially if you've done Neural Nets), and then crashing because of a typo that caused a runtime error (which is partially our own fault for not serializing intermediate output states, but still). I've kind of "made peace" with Python, I can totally use it fine, but I don't really like it. Still, it's by far my favorite dynamic language. I've been looking at learning more "web" languages too, though, how are the job prospects looking for TypeScript and Dart (which compile into JS anyway), which may alleviate some of those problems? Note that this isn't condemning dynamic languages, I'm just saying that I think some peoples' brains don't play as nicely with them. It's definitely true that you should be flexible and get used to working with tech outside your comfort zone, though.
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Jan 15, 2016 05:10
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Ornithology posted:Anyone here have experience with IBM's IPAT Test? I applied for a summer internship and was told I need to complete this online test on number sequencing, diagrams/patterns, and problem solving with algebra. Everyone online says it's ridiculously hard. And frankly, I have very little experience with math. I studied liberal arts for my undergrad and just started a postgraduate community college course in programming. I'm guessing my chances are quite low to actually pass this thing. I hope most companies don't expect this type of thing. I was hoping for more practical questions when it came to job hunting. It's pretty rough, and I consider myself a pretty solid algebra guy, mostly because of the time limit. Half of it is intermediate algebra questions, and the other half is sequence questions like you posted. I feel like I got about 50ish% total, but they don't tell you your score. The sequences were as killer for me as your example but they're not impossible.
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Jan 15, 2016 05:14
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ToxicSlurpee posted:For my programming education I primarily focused on theoretical stuff and math. I actually snagged a math minor and made my electives math and AI rather than more specific stuff. My primary language is C# but that's more out of convenience than anything; most of my personal stuff has been games using XNA originally and Unity now. I'm rusty but I can also do C++, Java, Assembly, Processing, HTML, CSS, and a few others that probably don't matter. I looked at Python but haven't delved into it deeply. Been meaning to but eh. C# is fine and has plenty of jobs. Between it and Java you're covering the majority of enterprise application programming so I'm surprised you're having problems finding work, but I also don't know what the Pittsburgh market is like. You might be hitting problems with your resume/personal marketing. If you really like AI/games and have work to back them up, you might try targeting companies that pay for re-location (not uncommon) and trying to broaden your search that way, assuming being able to afford to move is your only obstacle. It's standard for companies to pay for your flights out to interviews and everything, too, so if you've been blocking it out it's something to consider. Steve French posted:I would take this person's advice with a grain of salt. WELL LET ME TELL YOU THE ONE TRUE TRUTH ABOUT PROGRAMMING *IN THE REAL WORLD*: JIT compilation by definition takes place in a context rich environment that lets you make better optimization decisions, and my company's internal research suggests it's likely to be a Big Deal, which seems to be supported by the language development professors I've kept in touch with. AND ALSO I WILL CODE YOU OUT OF EXISTENCE YOU BABY EATING SLOB
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Jan 15, 2016 05:18
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let i hug posted:WELL LET ME TELL YOU THE ONE TRUE TRUTH ABOUT PROGRAMMING *IN THE REAL WORLD*: Still, you can have both JIT compilation (or a flat out interpreter) and static verification tools/provers. There's no reason they have to be mutually exclusive. It doesn't have much to do with dynamic vs static typing. Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 05:21
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Jsor posted:Still, you can have both JIT compilation (or a flat out interpreter) and static verification tools/provers. There's no reason they have to be mutually exclusive. It doesn't have much to do with dynamic vs static typing. Yeah but people don't like to acknowledge that you can statically analyze dynamic code. People also don't like to acknowledge that there could be anything faster than GCC. What you're saying about it being orthogonal to dynamic v static typing is exactly my point.
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Jan 15, 2016 05:32
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let i hug posted:C# is fine and has plenty of jobs. Between it and Java you're covering the majority of enterprise application programming so I'm surprised you're having problems finding work, but I also don't know what the Pittsburgh market is like. You might be hitting problems with your resume/personal marketing. One of the issues is that I'm never quite sure just how to write a resume. I've gotten loads of advice and a lot of it's been conflicting. I have a single page at the moment that lists stuff like elective coursework and stuff beyond what was expected as well as what projects I did. So far I haven't found places offering relo for dudes like me and only one game company contacted me back so far. I've rewritten my resume several times, reformatted it, made it a .pdf, all sorts of things. I have a LinkedIn, I signed up at Angel.co, I look on CyberCoders...meh. The Pittsburgh market is apparently growing. The city is a previously abandoned wreck that is being revitalized by a lot of things; software is one of them. It isn't Silicon Valley exactly but more companies are moving in. Granted I also am trying to avoid west coast stuff but would take it if I had to. One issue is that I don't like warm places very much. I'd like to stay up north. I did manage to get an interview with Google but that didn't pan out. If I get a response at all it's typically "we want people with more experience." So I need experience to get a job but have no experience because I don't have a job yet. I graduated in December it isn't like I've had time to rack up years of experience. Jsor posted:I'm also an AI/math/game person, hi, I'm doing a PhD so not much help on the job front, but if ToxicSlurpee is like me I think our brains like statically typed languages because we like the confidence being able to specify how things interact through clear types and function signatures, and have the veracity of our descriptions proven back to us at compile time (to varying degrees). We're also more likely to have run into the problem of a program running for two days (especially if you've done Neural Nets), and then crashing because of a typo that caused a runtime error (which is partially our own fault for not serializing intermediate output states, but still). I've kind of "made peace" with Python, I can totally use it fine, but I don't really like it. Still, it's by far my favorite dynamic language. I've been looking at learning more "web" languages too, though, how are the job prospects looking for TypeScript and Dart (which compile into JS anyway), which may alleviate some of those problems? It's a mix of things but one of the biggest is that my memory is screwy and I'll forget what type something is and mess things up. It's just safer to say "this is a string" and have it be a string forever until you parse it to something else deliberately. It's just one less thing for me to think about except when I have to. I can see how dynamic typing is useful but that doesn't mean that I like using it.
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Jan 15, 2016 05:34
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Vincent Valentine posted:The solution that worked for me is to just build something that I knew would be out if my league. When you hit a part you don't understand, start researching it. Rinse/repeat until you finish it, then start another. For web dev, "intermediate" largely means learning applicable code libraries like jQuery and underscore and learning how to research solutions. Thanks actually what helped me most. I was getting super bored of just reading Eloquent JavaScript and doing his little exercises, so I decided to build a site that searches Instagram by location to learn about AJAX stuff. http://dpmacdonagh.com/projects/instagram if anyone's interested and wants to laugh at my code.
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Jan 15, 2016 05:41
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ddiddles posted:Thanks actually what helped me most. I was getting super bored of just reading Eloquent JavaScript and doing his little exercises, so I decided to build a site that searches Instagram by location to learn about AJAX stuff. Tried to use this on my iPhone 6S Plus, in landscape mode  Then I rotated it back to see the message 
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Jan 15, 2016 05:51
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Drastic Actions posted:Tried to use this on my iPhone 6S Plus, in landscape mode I tested it on my 6 plus as well, didn't think to put it in landscape mode. Also apparently I need to clear my error messages when a new one pops up, otherwise they stack like that. Oh, rotating in safari someone either causes a click event or the enter keydown event...Those are the only listeners that kick everything off. Edit: Wait, I know what's doing it. I'm working on some endless scroll stuff and set a default listener for when you scroll to the bottom as a test. It's fixed now. ddiddles fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 05:59
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let i hug posted:Some people like to put down dynamic languages because they think that makes them "serious" developers but honestly it's irrelevant. Everything's going to move to JIT compilation anyway because static compilation is fundamentally more limited, and at that point who cares. The practical advice is to not be a person who can only work in one paradigm/language/framework/computer architecture, even if you're convinced that it's God's Gift to Man. But performance isn't the main reason static typing is better.
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Jan 15, 2016 06:09
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The Pittsburgh market is apparently growing. The city is a previously abandoned wreck that is being revitalized by a lot of things; software is one of them. It isn't Silicon Valley exactly but more companies are moving in. Granted I also am trying to avoid west coast stuff but would take it if I had to. One issue is that I don't like warm places very much. I'd like to stay up north.
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Jan 15, 2016 07:18
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Cicero posted:There are stronger tech hubs than Pittsburgh that are still colder than California. NYC, Seattle, and Boston are the most obvious ones. Portland and Chicago too (was gonna add DC but it gets really hot in the summer right?). I've actually been looking at Boston and Buffalo. Not so much NYC but y'know. Occasionally I'll see a job in New England. Are there any other places I should look out for? I've seen a few things in Minneapolis and Chicago too but they don't seem to be hubs.
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Jan 15, 2016 10:05
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ToxicSlurpee posted:My primary language is C#... Is there anything else I should look at? http://www.typescriptlang.org/ will make JS fit your preconception of how languages 'ought' to work way better than the plain kind. There's a ton of C# jobs here in MSP. The company I'm placed at right now is having a terrible time finding .Net stack web devs for example.
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Jan 15, 2016 15:48
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Cicero posted:There are stronger tech hubs than Pittsburgh that are still colder than California. NYC, Seattle, and Boston are the most obvious ones. Portland and Chicago too (was gonna add DC but it gets really hot in the summer right?). DC is hell on earth in the summer. The tech scene here is okay. Private industry is more focused around folks who have clearances (that's where the serious DC dev money is), but there are exceptions; writing software for the government can often be quixotic and  worthy unless you're doing something like USDS or 18F; non-profits often have fantastic benefits and work-life balance means something, but the pay is going to be a bit less. Startups, not as familiar with, but there is a budding scene here.
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Jan 15, 2016 17:30
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I've actually been looking at Boston and Buffalo. Not so much NYC but y'know. Occasionally I'll see a job in New England. I just moved to St. Louis and the tech scene here seems OK, but there is one thing that might help you: there is a program here called Launch Code, which places people who might not even have a CS degree into paid "apprenticeships" (seemingly just like internships) that last a few months, with the intention of translating into full time work for that same company. They seem to have a good track record; a friend of mine went back to school to get a master's in CS and never got around to getting an internship, so he used this program and got in the door. I know it's not ideal, as the initial apprenticeships don't pay that well and you wouldn't get relo, but it seems like a pretty sure bet for you, as they take people with much more minimal backgrounds. Stl is actually a kind of cool city imo, and dirt cheap too.
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Jan 15, 2016 18:14
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Monkey Fury posted:DC is hell on earth in the summer. The tech scene here is okay.
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Jan 15, 2016 18:14
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let i hug posted:WELL LET ME TELL YOU THE ONE TRUE TRUTH ABOUT PROGRAMMING *IN THE REAL WORLD*:
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Jan 15, 2016 21:33
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JawnV6 posted:Ok, so you're saying the programming future doesn't include wearables, IoT, embedded, really anything smaller than an A9 smartphone? Because of the compilation model's contextual availability for optimizations really dominates the factors around those. Yes that is literally what I'm saying because I know everything there is to know about everything and all statements I make are meant to apply universally. I want to engage in a lengthy discussion on the internet with a complete stranger so that I can make definitive statements about the future without any context, because that seems like a productive use of my time. Honestly I should've just said "dynamic languages aren't going anywhere" but  I'll repeat: the practical advice is to be comfortable in a wide range of environments and programming models/contexts. Everything has plusses/minuses and you want to keep a big toolbox.
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Jan 15, 2016 22:48
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let i hug posted:Honestly I should've just said "dynamic languages aren't going anywhere" but let i hug posted:I'll repeat: the practical advice is to be comfortable in a wide range of environments and programming models/contexts. Everything has plusses/minuses and you want to keep a big toolbox.
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Jan 15, 2016 22:56
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Apropos to nothing, I would just like to say that putting a copyright notice in the footer of each page of your resume makes you look like a twat and you shouldn't do it.
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Jan 15, 2016 22:57
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baquerd posted:When I get a properly self-motivated grad who's taught themselves a lot, they might be contributing week one such that the only real difference between them and a senior engineer is experience (which is most definitely valuable, don't get me wrong). It is *hard* to test for this in interviews.
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Jan 15, 2016 23:02
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JawnV6 posted:It was your failure to recognize things exist outside JITable scenarios that led us here, so maybe follow your own advice and try to remember the broader context? Or that even in JITable scenarios, there is still value in static typing.
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Jan 15, 2016 23:05
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JawnV6 posted:You yourself brought the anti-dynamic straw man into the conversation with this "I"VE HEARD PPL poo poo TALKIN DYNAMIC" lede, after which you clumsily denied by definition any embedded programming from existing. Steve French posted:Or that even in JITable scenarios, there is still value in static typing. I never said anything bad about static typing, only that dynamic languages are a viable alternative and will grow to be more so in the near future. I'm sorry I said "everything will move to JIT" because there are of course a lot of places where static compilation makes more sense. It was an off-the-cuff comment. I seriously apologize for not being more specific and balanced. I wasn't trying to say embedded development was unimportant, it's just not what I work in and so it's not my default thought context. You guys jumping down my throat about this is really the kind of thing I was trying to avoid with all the sarcasm/joking around. It's not a big deal. I just wanted to say that it might be a good idea to learn Ruby if you're seeing job postings about it in your area.
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Jan 16, 2016 00:29
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let i hug posted:You guys jumping down my throat about this is really the kind of thing I was trying to avoid with all the sarcasm/joking around. It's not a big deal. I just wanted to say that it might be a good idea to learn Ruby if you're seeing job postings about it in your area. Okay, that's fair. It was relatively off-topic anyway. People poo poo on ruby a lot (myself included), but I think your advice is sound.
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Jan 16, 2016 00:35
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Doghouse posted:I just moved to St. Louis and the tech scene here seems OK, but there is one thing that might help you: there is a program here called Launch Code, which places people who might not even have a CS degree into paid "apprenticeships" (seemingly just like internships) that last a few months, with the intention of translating into full time work for that same company. They seem to have a good track record; a friend of mine went back to school to get a master's in CS and never got around to getting an internship, so he used this program and got in the door. I used to work with one of the LaunchCode founders and he mentioned over beers one time that this was sort of a common "use case" for the program. One of the big universities in STL has a fairly heavily theoretical CS program, which is all well and good if you get an internship during your time in school. Otherwise you are screwed at graduation because you walk out having developed minimal practical skills. LaunchCode is expanding to KC and Miami too if I'm not mistaken.
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Jan 16, 2016 03:56
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let i hug posted:You guys jumping down my throat about this is really the kind of thing I was trying to avoid with all the sarcasm/joking around. It's not a big deal. I just wanted to say that it might be a good idea to learn Ruby if you're seeing job postings about it in your area. The only people left writing Ruby (read: Rails and anything directly related to it; not so much poo poo like Puppet scripts) in 2016 are suffering from the greatest kind of Stockholm syndrome. The companies left hiring for it are of the sort that preach the hell out of TDD but probably don't actually do it. Ithaqua posted:The Ruby world shrinking, they're probably looking for maintenance developers and expect you to already know Ruby pretty well. Some of the reformed Ruby developers who frequent this thread probably have a better grasp on the situation, I just know that I stopped hearing anything about Ruby about 2 years ago. This post is basically 100% correct.
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Jan 17, 2016 03:53
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I finally got a job after 5 months of searching! Just wanted to pop in here and say thanks, I've been reading this thread religiously the entire time. It actually worked out amazingly, I got a job offer from a company that I wasn't crazy about and then 5 minutes later a recruiter from another company called me to follow up after a phone interview. I immediately told him that I just received an offer from another company and then I told him that I was still interested if they could make me an offer within 48 hours. The second company immediately brought me in for an in-person interview and then sent me a job offer that beat the other company by several thousand dollars, not to mention an extra week of vacation, yearly bonus, and stock options. Oh, and best of all 1/4 the commute. I just tripled my yearly income. 
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Jan 17, 2016 22:06
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Tip posted:I just tripled my yearly income.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:53
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Cicero posted:Wow, congrats! Were you already a dev before or are you coming from another line of work? I was a graphic designer previously, although I was always part time so part of the increase comes from getting a full time job, on an hourly basis I only doubled my income. I have very little development experience, basically a year of self-guided teaching and projects that culminated in releasing a fairly complicated hybrid web app for Android. I think that going for positions that involved both design and programming really helped me, let me leapfrog a little bit and end up in a non-junior position doing UI/UX. Anyone in here that is looking to transition from design to development I highly suggest learning JavaScript and looking into UI/UX work, if you're any good people will poo poo their pants and call you a unicorn. When I started my job search I was applying for junior dev positions that I thought I was very qualified for and I wasn't getting any response. Then I started applying for UI/UX positions that I didn't have even half the qualifications for and suddenly everybody wanted me.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:40
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Tip posted:I was a graphic designer previously, although I was always part time so part of the increase comes from getting a full time job, on an hourly basis I only doubled my income. "Only"  Congratulations! Assuming you're in the US: If your company does matching 401k, get in on that. Also start contributing the maximum you can to an IRA if you weren't doing so already. Basically anything you can do to cut down on your taxable income, since you very likely just jumped up a tax bracket or two.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:53
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Thom ZombieForm posted:Looks like udacity has started job guarantees within 6 months or your money back for some of their nanodegree programs. I wonder what kinds of strings are attached. One of their nanodegree offerings is "machine learning engineer", something I may be interested in. Trouble is, I'm absolutely not interested in living in Silicon Valley (or California in general for reasons beyond the scope of this thread), or anywhere else where I'd have to choose between commuting 2-3 hours each way or living in a shoebox. Which seems to be where i big chunk of the interesting robotics jobs are at. Does anyone have any exposure to Udacity's job placement services?
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Jan 18, 2016 04:19
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Ithaqua posted:Basically anything you can do to cut down on your taxable income, since you very likely just jumped up a tax bracket or two. Uhhh- I mean yeah you definitely want to contribute to your retirement don't get me wrong but what does going up tax brackets have to do with it?
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Jan 18, 2016 04:57
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