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Devian666 posted:The whole car and house thing is how baby boomers have ruined the world. If neo-liberalism was rolled back so that interest rates were capped and severe lending restrictions were in place housing, including rent, would be a hell of a lot cheaper. 
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Jan 18, 2016 05:23
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I heard a doozy of a condo story the other day. Developer built a good looking condo complex near the beach in a nice west coast Florida city. Great location, not great design. Guy cut corners everywhere. 8 or so years after it was completed and all the owners moved in, the foundation starts crumbling. Inspectors come in and condemn the place. Each condo owner (probably 100-120 units in the complex) have to pony up over 100K each for repairs. Additionally, it's now unlivable according to the county until these repairs are made. They started the repairs 6 years ago. It still isn't livable. I think most owners just walked away after the 100K assessments came. It's in a great location too. I wonder why some other enterprising developer didn't just buy out the residents, demolish the thing, and build something bigger and spiffier in its place.
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Jan 18, 2016 05:55
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froglet posted:There's a group of apartments near me that I see being sold on a deep discount... Because the strata spent so long bickering about maintenance on the building and nothing getting done the foundation now has concrete cancer. Gold Coast?
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Jan 18, 2016 06:07
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Guest2553 posted:I had some housechat with a buddy a couple days ago. He was surprised that I'd want to rent for the next decade instead of buying so I tried to break it down for him and explain opportunity costs. The 90K I 'throw away' in rent over 5 years actually comes out ahead after deducting the interest, taxes, maintenance, and insurance I don't have to pay, plus the opportunity cost I could have done with my down payment. Without access to some spreadsheets I had to wag some of the numbers, but he (may be) convinced that rent isn't throwing money away. Also worth mentioning is that we're in the military and can expect to move every few years plus get divorced at least once, and I hear splitting houses is a pain... Please tell me he intends to rent out the place when he inevitably gets a PCS. That has to be my favorite active duty thing besides vanity license plates.
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Jan 18, 2016 07:19
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flynt posted:Seriously. Sometimes it feels like everyone is pushing the "you're not a real adult unless you buy a place and get a new car" agenda. It's good to get another perspective. I have a place and a (mostly) new car. I still can't figure out how this whole adulting thing works 
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Jan 18, 2016 07:27
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'Experts Shocked by Powerball Winner's Behaviour' http://www.wnd.com/2016/01/experts-shocked-by-powerball-winners-behavior/ quote:John and Lisa Robinson of Munford, Tennessee, wasted no time letting the world know they were among the three winners who split the jackpot, as they informed America on Friday morning’s “Today” show that had the winning numbers. This was BEFORE they even secured the ticket with lottery officials. quote:But there was a downside to all the publicity, as reporters scurried to the Robinson home north of Memphis for interviews. Thought this was relevant given the earlier discussion in the thread. Might not be BWM exactly, but they're bad at something, and I'm not sanguine on how they'll decide to spend the money either.
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Jan 18, 2016 08:05
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Jumpingmanjim posted:Gold Coast? Nah, Western Australia.
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Jan 18, 2016 08:19
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NancyPants posted:Please tell me he intends to rent out the place when he inevitably gets a PCS. That has to be my favorite active duty thing besides vanity license plates. He was thinking about it but then I mentioned the whole taxable income vs capital gains thing...
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Jan 18, 2016 09:19
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Once a year or so I re-read through the GTAT thread at the contrarian investor (which I discovered from this thread way back) for fun and to remind myself to never buy individual stocks. Always a good read.quote:I don't mean to be insensitive...but why should this make you sell your home? Did you borrow to invest? That lady lost around 90k. Others lost life savings of 500k+.
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Jan 18, 2016 11:50
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Also if special needs kid was too depressing here's Mr moneybags going into the negative on marginsquote:This would be my last post on this forum. I am officially signing off. Thanks for all the contributions. I am still in shock and all the money is gone and I owe $107K in margin accounts. I have prepare my profit and loss for filing a case and here the final numbers. This is a lesson for everybody not to be greedy and stupid. These are just stocks, options of around $140K is not in there. Oops forgot there thread link, though I imagine most people here have seen it http://forum.thecontrarianinvestor.com/index.php?threads/gt-advanced-technologies-inc-gtat.69/ September 9th was a 40% drop and October 6th was bankruptcy
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Jan 18, 2016 12:13
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Devian666 posted:I don't have a car but I have a house. The whole car and house thing is how baby boomers have ruined the world. If neo-liberalism was rolled back so that interest rates were capped and severe lending restrictions were in place housing, including rent, would be a hell of a lot cheaper. Also, the US's stupid mortgage interest tax deduction, I mean seriously.
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Jan 18, 2016 12:31
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sparkmaster posted:I heard a doozy of a condo story the other day. Developer built a good looking condo complex near the beach in a nice west coast Florida city. Great location, not great design. Guy cut corners everywhere. 8 or so years after it was completed and all the owners moved in, the foundation starts crumbling. Inspectors come in and condemn the place. Each condo owner (probably 100-120 units in the complex) have to pony up over 100K each for repairs. Additionally, it's now unlivable according to the county until these repairs are made. One of the great things about highrise condos in those sorts of places is how old developments will fight tooth and nail to keep newer ones from springing up and blocking their views of the beach/water. It tends to happen anyways though 
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Jan 18, 2016 13:56
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No joke, that seems to be my parents' trump card for why I should own property. "You can deduct the mortgage interest!" Meanwhile, I'd be paying maintenance and home insurance and property taxes, and have a big 'ole heaping helping of liability for a structure that anchors me financially if not geographically.
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Jan 18, 2016 14:02
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Pompous Rhombus posted:One of the great things about highrise condos in those sorts of places is how old developments will fight tooth and nail to keep newer ones from springing up and blocking their views of the beach/water. I would think that would be less valuable nowadays. Who looks out the window anyway? fake edit: I just looked out my window, then went back to looking at my computer. Is it always BWM to buy a house? In my region rentals are all pretty lovely overall, and generally more expensive than a mortgage (unless the place completely falls apart on you). This is the midwest/Cleveland.
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Jan 18, 2016 14:05
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hanales posted:
Completely market dependent, just make sure you are fully accounting for opportunity/maintenance costs etc. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html?_r=0
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Jan 18, 2016 14:18
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sparkmaster posted:I heard a doozy of a condo story the other day. Developer built a good looking condo complex near the beach in a nice west coast Florida city. Great location, not great design. Guy cut corners everywhere. 8 or so years after it was completed and all the owners moved in, the foundation starts crumbling. Inspectors come in and condemn the place. Each condo owner (probably 100-120 units in the complex) have to pony up over 100K each for repairs. Additionally, it's now unlivable according to the county until these repairs are made. .......why didn't they sue the developer, that makes no sense at all
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Jan 18, 2016 14:21
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quote:This is the midwest/Cleveland. Well Cleveland, there you go. That's why you don't want to look out the window.
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Jan 18, 2016 14:26
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last laugh posted:Completely market dependent, just make sure you are fully accounting for opportunity/maintenance costs etc. That's interesting. I should definitely buy. For example you can buy this http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/32553-Haver-Hill-Dr-Solon-OH-44139/33717571_zpid/ In one of the best school districts in the state (if you want to send your kids to public school, which I do). It's the burbs but it's nice. You'll never find a rental with that much space, and anywhere that does they are >1500 a month and will be lovely aimed at college students packing in. Nail Rat posted:Well Cleveland, there you go. That's why you don't want to look out the window. lol. To be fair I didn't look out the window when I lived in Boston, SF, LA area, or Denver either. Actually had nice views in LA, since I was up near magic mountain.
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Jan 18, 2016 14:34
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hanales posted:Is it always BWM to buy a house? In my region rentals are all pretty lovely overall, and generally more expensive than a mortgage (unless the place completely falls apart on you). This is the midwest/Cleveland. Contrary to popular goon opinion, of course not. It obviously depends upon a ton of factors but purchasing property can work out fine.
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Jan 18, 2016 14:54
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Barry posted:Contrary to popular goon opinion, of course not. It obviously depends upon a ton of factors but purchasing property can work out fine.
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Jan 18, 2016 15:01
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cowofwar posted:Goons are generally young, mobile, educated. It almost never makes sense for that demographic to buy. The calculus changes once stability, marriage and children enter the mix. Why mobile? The demographic has aged and I think there are a lot of 25+, where marriage and children definitely start becoming a part of our lives. There's almost an implication there that young and educated is separated from marriage and children. We weren't planning on staying here past 4 years when we bought (might change now), and the math came out even at 2 years accounting for maintenance, property tax, investment loss, and insurance because of just how the area is. It's not that rare. The rhetoric is more to fight against the constant besiege from older generations that buying is always better.
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Jan 18, 2016 15:04
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cowofwar posted:Goons are generally young, mobile, educated. It almost never makes sense for that demographic to buy. The calculus changes once stability, marriage and children enter the mix. Yeah I'm in the latter camp. Was bwm most of my life though and trying to learn better habits now. When I was young and mobile there wasn't as much info readily available without like, going to a library.
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Jan 18, 2016 15:05
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Not a Children posted:No joke, that seems to be my parents' trump card for why I should own property. "You can deduct the mortgage interest!" Meanwhile, I'd be paying maintenance and home insurance and property taxes, and have a big 'ole heaping helping of liability for a structure that anchors me financially if not geographically. My parents sold me on this. My mortgage is so small and my interest is so low that I don't even come close to the standard deduction after itemizing *everything*. gently caress me for financing only $65k, right? I can't wait to hear them bitching about how their taxes go up now that they've paid off their home and they no longer can set mortgage interest off their taxes. They pay more in tax every year than I earn by a good margin.
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Jan 18, 2016 15:25
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hanales posted:Is it always BWM to buy a house? In my region rentals are all pretty lovely overall, and generally more expensive than a mortgage (unless the place completely falls apart on you). This is the midwest/Cleveland. The midwest currently has some of the tightest rental markets ever seen. I'm in Columbus and in the hip areas $200k houses rent for about $2,000 a month.
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Jan 18, 2016 16:09
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Zo posted:Also if special needs kid was too depressing here's Mr moneybags going into the negative on margins His justification for not just buying and holding is that he worked as an oil/gas analyst for a top fund but from what I can tell that would just make him be more aware of the dangers of market timing/stock picking, not more confident on his own analysis skills.
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Jan 18, 2016 16:11
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:The midwest currently has some of the tightest rental markets ever seen. I'm in Columbus and in the hip areas $200k houses rent for about $2,000 a month. Yeah we have the same problems up here anywhere worth living (i.e. safe enough for a family or cool enough for a 20something).
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Jan 18, 2016 16:17
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I think it's been mentioned, but The Big Short is pretty much BWM the movie. It does an excellent job of explaining the financial sector shenanigans that led up to 2008, including a fascinating segment showing foreclosed Florida homes. I was delighted to see a cameo appearance by my hometown heroes Washington Mutual. Definitely worth checking out, if only for Steve Carrell's character yelling at a corrupt ratings agency.
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Jan 18, 2016 18:09
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Barry posted:Contrary to popular goon opinion, of course not. It obviously depends upon a ton of factors but purchasing property can work out fine.
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Jan 18, 2016 18:39
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Olive Branch posted:Always great for a reread. Another site/blogger that strikes me as BWM on the path to GTAT-like losses but at least aware of his risks of losing a lot of his money is MoneyGeek. He plans on getting his TFSA worth a million bucks by 2033 entirely via stock picking and chronicles his journey on his blog: http://www.moneygeek.ca/weblog/categories/personal-stories/jins-tfsa-updates/ MoneyGeek posted:December Results: Down 3.5% So far, so good! Oil currently $29.98/bbl. Hope those other stocks are cushioning the blow.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:33
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Subjunctive posted:Also, the US's stupid mortgage interest tax deduction, I mean seriously. The everyday person shouldn't have access to that deduction as it encourages investment in non-productive assets. There's a similar problem in New Zealand where there's no capital gains tax so people get more house than they need, a mortgage that's too large and it's often their only investment. Haifisch posted:I don't think it's popular goon opinion as much as it's a reaction to "BUY A HOUSE ASAP STOP THROWING AWAY MONEY ON RENT" being encountered in the wild a lot(and pushing people to buy houses when it doesn't make sense for them). They say buying a house is the biggest purchase you make in your life (for the majority it would be). Yet people treat buying a house like they're buying icecream from a shop. Also people don't bother doing any calculations to see what their monthly/fortnightly payments will be, or that they don't have a budget problem. Then you add on the Australian/New Zealand problem where people are paying 60%+ of their net income in mortgage payments. Not realising they need money for maintenance or to live life. Also not considering risks like a property price collapse leaving their lovely house underwater, or like the dodgy condo discussed above. A lot of residential clients that I have struggle with paying for or financing major works required for their buildings. I do what I can to bring costs down but there's usually retirees in the buildings that can't afford to carry out the work necessary. Devian666 fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 19:34
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Haifisch posted:I don't think it's popular goon opinion as much as it's a reaction to "BUY A HOUSE ASAP STOP THROWING AWAY MONEY ON RENT" being encountered in the wild a lot(and pushing people to buy houses when it doesn't make sense for them). Well it sure is in this thread and BFC, generally speaking.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:53
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Barry posted:Well it sure is in this thread and BFC, generally speaking. There is a small vocal contingent of the "eat ramen, drive a 2004 civic" crowd for sure.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:13
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Barry posted:Well it sure is in this thread and BFC, generally speaking. It's true. It's always funny how bad the analysis is too - I have been waiting years to see someone do an actual comparison of costs over time but no one ever talks about what the financial picture will look like in 10 years, 20 years, and 30 years out if you buy today vs keep renting forever. They always look like like the first year and decide that buying is the dumbest decision ever.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:52
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Droo posted:It's true. It's always funny how bad the analysis is too - I have been waiting years to see someone do an actual comparison of costs over time but no one ever talks about what the financial picture will look like in 10 years, 20 years, and 30 years out if you buy today vs keep renting forever. They always look like like the first year and decide that buying is the dumbest decision ever. Buying is fine but just realize that a house is one component of a diversified financial situation so without diversification then it's just ballsy speculation.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:07
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cowofwar posted:If you're lucky and the value of your land goes up you can make bank. If you're unlucky after thirty years your house is old and the land is worthless but now you have to move to an assisted living building but you have no money. This is the kind of quality analysis I was talking about. LOL and thanks for illustrating my point.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:19
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Droo posted:This is the kind of quality analysis I was talking about. LOL and thanks for illustrating my point.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:34
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Droo posted:This is the kind of quality analysis I was talking about. LOL and thanks for illustrating my point. I mean if you just want someone to tell you what you want to hear, we can arrange that.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:40
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ohgodwhat posted:I mean if you just want someone to tell you what you want to hear, we can arrange that. Here's something I read last night on whether or not to pay down your mortgage. There's no clear answer due to personal circumstances and a few conditions like if you have less than 20% equity. http://www.heracliteanriver.com/?p=478 By all means treat a mortgage as leveraged shorting of currency based on inflation reducing the principle's value in the future when you pay it back. You can take that to mean that in a very low inflation environment, like now, you are betting in the wrong direction. I thought the general BFC advice was to not buy so that people actually consider what they are doing. It's better than buying the first piece of poo poo house you see thinking it will make you rich.
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Jan 19, 2016 00:36
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Devian666 posted:Here's something I read last night on whether or not to pay down your mortgage. There's no clear answer due to personal circumstances and a few conditions like if you have less than 20% equity. quote:No offense but I’d rather still save 200,000+ on interest by paying off my mortgage sooner. Do you realize how much bread I could buy then? All kinds of bread…  way to miss the point entirely holy christ
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Jan 19, 2016 01:54
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Bad with math $60k of interest is somehow $200k interest even then the comment ignores the savings of a whole 18 loaves (inflation adjusted).
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Jan 19, 2016 02:34
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