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Bowcaster was a running gag, it's not really supposed to be something you write about on wookiepedia if it factually made sense in the star wars universe. I didn't mind the joke myself.
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Jan 18, 2016 18:35
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rear end Catchcum posted:How many times was Chewie using the bowcaster around Han? He's a co pilot. These guys weren't out murking people on the reg. I reckon they've been in a *ton* of firefights in their day I mean In RotJ Han says that Chewie and him have "broken into a ton of places more heavily guarded than this", "this" being the shield generator back door Even the very first time seeing TFA when I was completely starry-eyed the bowcaster gag just seemed like kind of a lame thing to draw attention to how gently caress-off powerful it is so that when Kylo gets shot with it you're kind of amazed he's not blown back 10 feet and is instead just wounded
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Jan 18, 2016 18:36
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Elfgames posted:Well i imagine in the laypeoples mind of the star wars universe luke killed the emperor and darthvader and space walked out of the deathstar as it was blowing up without looking back at the explosion Probably not. More likely they heard about how the rebels destroyed the shield generator on the forest moon, then led a strike against the Death Star that killed the Emperor and Vader. Luke's involvement and his showdown with the Emperor wouldn't have been known to anyone but himself, and I doubt he put it in the Jedi School pamphlet.
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Jan 18, 2016 18:38
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Again, the simplest explanation isn't "Han didn't notice for 30 years" it's "Chewie - the ship's technician and engineer for 30 years - made some modifications to his gun recently". But Waffles is dead on that they kept drawing attention to it in order to play up your expectations for when it's used on Ren.
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Jan 18, 2016 18:53
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Basebf555 posted:Probably not. More likely they heard about how the rebels destroyed the shield generator on the forest moon, then led a strike against the Death Star that killed the Emperor and Vader. Luke's involvement and his showdown with the Emperor wouldn't have been known to anyone but himself, and I doubt he put it in the Jedi School pamphlet. Yeah it seems like any galactic fame Luke might have during the era of the OT is for the first death star, everything else would've been covert or not even really rebellion related (everything on cloud city, everything at jabba's palace) Now it could be another story within the rebellion because I'm sure people hear stories about the hotshot commander skywalker who has a lightsaber (unless he keeps it hidden when he's hanging around base?) Taking the (new) EU into account is interesting because in the new book that takes place between ANH and Empire, Luke basically tells everyone he meets that he has a saber and wants to be a jedi (and also the first canonical use of his telekinesis is on noodles while hanging out with a Givin http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Givin )
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Jan 18, 2016 19:01
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Guy A. Person posted:Again, the simplest explanation isn't "Han didn't notice for 30 years" it's "Chewie - the ship's technician and engineer for 30 years - made some modifications to his gun recently". That might be a canon explanation, but we all know what the actual joke is. It's like when R2 is dying and C3PO is like "I'm afraid he'll never be his old self again." In the specific context of this film, who cares? It's only revealed at the end of the film that R2 is Luke's robot. Entire chunks of the film function this way. The entire gratuitous Leia subplot (which is, nonetheless, the main focus of the opening crawl) basically relies on audience assuming that Leia is the greatest person in the universe. And then, she exists purely as a themstic point: that everyone who follows Leia becomes a good person by proxy. The more Leia-obedient the heroes are, the more gooder they become.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:09
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Basebf555 posted:Probably not. More likely they heard about how the rebels destroyed the shield generator on the forest moon, then led a strike against the Death Star that killed the Emperor and Vader. Luke's involvement and his showdown with the Emperor wouldn't have been known to anyone but himself, and I doubt he put it in the Jedi School pamphlet. 
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Jan 18, 2016 19:20
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Beeez posted:I figured he meant the other six Knights of Ren. I think Luke should by rights trounce TFA Kylo, but I'm sure when he completes his training with Snoke he'll be a formidable threat for the reasons you mentioned. However, I hope they do something more with Luke than just having his arc be a really drawn out version of Obi-Wan's in the original trilogy. Luke has like only ever been in two lightsaber fights against an old man and only won the second time by channeling the dark side. He's never demonstrated on screen the kind of op Jedi power you see from even minor Jedi in the prequels. He has some telekinesis, has some mind tricks, can deflect blasters, is agile as a young man though not nearly as agile as most Jedi, and that's about it. There's no reason to think he would be able to fight multiple lightsaber opponents at once, as a 65 year old man.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:37
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Luke is the most important person in the galaxy because he is the moral center of the galaxy. His importance is intangible in a way that it doesn't really make sense that his whereabouts are a point of big military and political importance.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:46
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greatn posted:Luke has like only ever been in two lightsaber fights against an old man and only won the second time by channeling the dark side.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:48
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Waffles Inc. posted:Even the very first time seeing TFA when I was completely starry-eyed the bowcaster gag just seemed like kind of a lame thing to draw attention to how gently caress-off powerful it is so that when Kylo gets shot with it you're kind of amazed he's not blown back 10 feet and is instead just wounded Is that the reason he's not blown back 10 feet and is instead just wounded? 
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Jan 18, 2016 19:50
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Cat Machine posted:I feel like the third act and finale would have flowed a whole lot better if Starkiller Base had been replaced with a battle on the planet where Luke was - the film's biggest failing is that the "Find Luke" motivator gets waylaid for quite a while. Have the third act play out like: Yeah, narratively, the Third Death Star plot is the weakest part of The Force Awakens, in fact probably the only narrative element I strongly dislike. It was saved somewhat by the competence of the execution, but everything about it from its reveal is dumb when you unravel it. Ok, this relatively small group of bad guys built Another loving Superweapon that is Even More Scarier Than The Death Star (marks off Hack EU Writer Plot Point #4). Except this one is also Even Biggerer, even though as far as I can tell the First Order has one star destroyer and a few thousand guys at most. ok. Then it blows up the Republic and its whole fleet we haven't seen to this point. uhhh. This seems like it would be a massive thing to happen but its barely even noted by anyone. Also you can see its lazers traveling through space and blowing up planets, while standing on a planet in an entirely different star system, through an atmosphere, in broad daylight. And like you say, the whole "we have to find Luke" plot disappears for the last half of the movie.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:56
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computer parts posted:Yeah, scale has been a bit of a weakness of the Star Wars films. Like it doesn't matter how good of a space wizard you are, if the Death Star is targeting your planet, you're gonna die. Actually, OP, the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:03
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greatn posted:Luke has like only ever been in two lightsaber fights against an old man and only won the second time by channeling the dark side. Some of why Luke seems less impressive than the PT Jedi is down to technological limitations, though. A big reason why the lightsaber battles in the OT seem slow is because the lightsaber props were fragile and frequently breaking, so they couldn't really swing them around with reckless abandon. I would also imagine that those crazy leaps both Luke and the PT Jedi do were a much harder effect to pull off in the late 70s to early 80s than it is these days. We've also seen the Knights of Ren, and while things could've changed since they attacked Luke's Jedi class, only Kylo had a lightsaber and his is a poorly constructed one with a bad crystal. These things, combined with what Cnut and I previously said, all add up to fans wanting to see Luke demonstrate how powerful he is as a fully fledged Jedi Master.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:08
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I think there's also been a change in the style of American action film- remember that between the OT and the PT you had the wave of interest in Hong Kong action and wuxia movies that also led to The Matrix and to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon getting a major prestige release.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:14
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I hope to hell they dont show him jumping around and twirling like a spastic monkey. More stuff like Ren freezing blaster shots, freezing people in place and force pulling/pushing.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:16
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Let's face it: spectacular demonstrations of overwhelming supernatural power are loving sweet. I'll be both surprised and disappointed if we don't see Luke brutally destroy some kind of obstacle and/or opponent.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:17
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Maxwell Lord posted:I think there's also been a change in the style of American action film- remember that between the OT and the PT you had the wave of interest in Hong Kong action and wuxia movies that also led to The Matrix and to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon getting a major prestige release. Yeah, that may be why I never hated the PT fights the way a lot of people apparently do, as I grew up with Kung Fu movies. It is too bad that the change in style and technology has led to people thinking that everyone in the OT was a weakling (though honestly, even if Obi-Wan was at his best he was fighting in a small, enclosed corridor in ANH, not really conducive to jumps and flips, and the script implies something, perhaps Vader's sheer presence in the Force, is wearing Obi-Wan down unnaturally), but they didn't bother me outside of that.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:19
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One thing I distinctly recall from that time was Ray Park-mania, to the point where he was getting glowing write-ups like Andy Serkis does.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:24
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Luke is politically important because in the eyes of the Republic, he's the war hero who was instrumental in destroying the first Death Star and assassinating the Emperor; the Church of the Force regard him as a spiritual leader; the Resistance consider him the one guy who could get a handle on the leader of the First Order and one of three people who has any connection to his second-in-command; and the galaxy at large know him as the only living Jedi and the guy who surpassed the power of Darth Vader (who himself singlehandedly changed the course of history).Frackie Robinson posted:Maz doesn't seem like someone Han would be friends with. Wouldn't she be judging him nonstop for running from his responsibilities? Like Lando, she knows him as that loser that Chewbacca hangs out with. Han never tried the crossbow before because he was stuck in a rut, unwilling to move beyond things he knew, such as smuggling and only ever using his regular pistol when he has a choice.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:31
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:One thing I distinctly recall from that time was Ray Park-mania, to the point where he was getting glowing write-ups like Andy Serkis does. He's an incredibly gifted physical actor. He managed to imbue Maul with a personality without actually speaking any lines.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:40
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The only bad thing about Darth Maul was that he showed up and got killed off before he could even really become a character. I hope they bring back Ray Park for some sort of additional Star Wars movies because Darth Maul was cool as poo poo regardless of being attached to TPM and I'd love to see more of him.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:42
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Basebf555 posted:Probably not. More likely they heard about how the rebels destroyed the shield generator on the forest moon, then led a strike against the Death Star that killed the Emperor and Vader. Luke's involvement and his showdown with the Emperor wouldn't have been known to anyone but himself, and I doubt he put it in the Jedi School pamphlet. Why would we think that the entire galaxy doesn't know Luke is the one who defeated Vader and Palpatine? Why would Luke not tell any of his students about Vader's redemption? For what reason would that be kept secret? I mean, on top of the fact that it clearly wasn't kept secret by TFA's time.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:43
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Phylodox posted:He's an incredibly gifted physical actor. He managed to imbue Maul with a personality without actually speaking any lines. He did speak a few lines. piratepilates posted:The only bad thing about Darth Maul was that he showed up and got killed off before he could even really become a character. I hope they bring back Ray Park for some sort of additional Star Wars movies because Darth Maul was cool as poo poo regardless of being attached to TPM and I'd love to see more of him. There's really no way to say this without spoiling at least a few things, but he shows up in Clone Wars (turns out he survived), and he's apparently continuing to return in Rebels.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:44
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Bongo Bill posted:He did speak a few lines. He was dubbed over by Pete Serafinowicz.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:47
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BrianWilly posted:What? Why? So far it doesn't seem like anyone knows the "Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker" secret either, at least aside from the immediate family.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:48
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I think Luke's presence puts everything in kind of a rough spot, because when it comes to any sort of confrontation you've really only got three options: - Dooku-esque choreography, which belongs in a different era than the "sequel" one, so it would seem anachronistic - Very simple choreography designed to showcase how crushingly better he is than his opponent(s) - Him not fighting at all I could be totally surprised and they could do really good old-guy choreography in the sequel "style" but I dunno Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 20:48
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Yeah, it is pretty funny that TFA managed to reproduce the single most hackneyed bit of the EU--the super duper superweapon, EVEN SCARIER than the Death Star.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:50
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Phylodox posted:He was dubbed over by Peter Serafinowicz. What a bizarre choice.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:50
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Waffles Inc. posted:I think Luke's presence puts everything in kind of a rough spot, because when it comes to any sort of confrontation you've really only got three options: I feel like they sort of left open how super skilled Jedis fight in the New Trilogy (tm). Rey has no idea what she's doing, obviously, and I thought they sort of implied that Kylo is basically at Luke in ANH levels of training--Snoke's summons at the end is kind of a reverse Yoda thing. I hope Luke fights like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXIJv1NoXmo
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Jan 18, 2016 20:54
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piratepilates posted:The only bad thing about Darth Maul was that he showed up and got killed off before he could even really become a character. I hope they bring back Ray Park for some sort of additional Star Wars movies because Darth Maul was cool as poo poo regardless of being attached to TPM and I'd love to see more of him. Yeah, Darth Maul had a cool look and the emotionless spectacle of the prequel lightsaber fights weren't his fault as a character or Park's as an actor. That's why one of the biggest changes in the "What if the star wars prequels were actually good" youtube series is that Darth Maul lives. Obi-Wan has an enemy he has some history with and we get an established villain through three movies who can actually fight Jedi instead of making up a new one each for Clones and Sith.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:57
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porfiria posted:Yeah, it is pretty funny that TFA managed to reproduce the single most hackneyed bit of the EU--the super duper superweapon, EVEN SCARIER than the Death Star. Even so, Starkiller Base isn't just a Death Star. There's some very strong symbolism and imagery associated with it. It's a forest planet like the ones that the last two Death Star attacks were launched from, turned into a cyborg like Darth Vader and General Grievous were. It pulls the light out of the sky and diverts it to the darkest ends, but the light can nevertheless be restored.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:57
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computer parts posted:So far it doesn't seem like anyone knows the "Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker" secret either, at least aside from the immediate family. I'm just still not sure why we would think any of this is secret.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:58
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Bongo Bill posted:Even so, Starkiller Base isn't just a Death Star. There's some very strong symbolism and imagery associated with it. It's a forest planet like the ones that the last two Death Star attacks were launched from, turned into a cyborg like Darth Vader and General Grievous were. It pulls the light out of the sky and diverts it to the darkest ends, but the light can nevertheless be restored. Yeah the imagery was pretty compelling--its place in the plot felt a bit undercooked.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:03
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Beeez posted:Some of why Luke seems less impressive than the PT Jedi is down to technological limitations, though. A big reason why the lightsaber battles in the OT seem slow is because the lightsaber props were fragile and frequently breaking, so they couldn't really swing them around with reckless abandon. I would also imagine that those crazy leaps both Luke and the PT Jedi do were a much harder effect to pull off in the late 70s to early 80s than it is these days. We've also seen the Knights of Ren, and while things could've changed since they attacked Luke's Jedi class, only Kylo had a lightsaber and his is a poorly constructed one with a bad crystal. These things, combined with what Cnut and I previously said, all add up to fans wanting to see Luke demonstrate how powerful he is as a fully fledged Jedi Master. That, and you had to rotoscope all the effects in. Do you want to be the guy who has to go through frame by frame drawing light sabre glow into this? 
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Jan 18, 2016 21:05
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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One minor thing I liked about TFA was something that always bugged me about the EU and the prequels: Kylo Ren's name is "Kylo Ren" and not "Darth Enragius" or something. I really hate the idea that "Darth" is a title, and even if you don't hate it on principle you have to admit that it's been done to death. "Darth Vader" was pretty obviously the guy's name in the original trilogy, especially A New Hope, not a title. Hopefully this is the end of the Thing where if you're a bad guy who uses the Force your name is Darth Manged Evil Verb
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Jan 18, 2016 21:06
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Tezzor posted:One minor thing I liked about TFA was something that always bugged me about the EU and the prequels: Kylo Ren's name is "Kylo Ren" and not "Darth Enragius" or something. I really hate the idea that "Darth" is a title, and even if you don't hate it on principle you have to admit that it's been done to death. "Darth Vader" was pretty obviously the guy's name in the original trilogy, especially A New Hope, not a title. Hopefully this is the end of the Thing where if you're a bad guy who uses the Force your name is Darth Manged Evil Verb Instead everyone will be named Death-O Ren.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:09
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I liked Starkiller Base, but felt it should have been saved for a later movie. Without the Starkiller, there'd probably have been about half as many complaints of TFA being too similar to ANH. And speaking of removing similarities to ANH, maybe they could have differentiated Jakku from Tattooine a bit more. If they'd made the sand/soil red, like Mars, it would fit the idea of Jakku as a sort of "graveyard" planet very well, as we understand Mars to be a planet that once had liquid water and may at one point have been teeming with life.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:12
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Tezzor posted:One minor thing I liked about TFA was something that always bugged me about the EU and the prequels: Kylo Ren's name is "Kylo Ren" and not "Darth Enragius" or something. I really hate the idea that "Darth" is a title, and even if you don't hate it on principle you have to admit that it's been done to death. "Darth Vader" was pretty obviously the guy's name in the original trilogy, especially A New Hope, not a title. Hopefully this is the end of the Thing where if you're a bad guy who uses the Force your name is Darth Manged Evil Verb I don't think you have to worry since I think TFA is taking great pains to ensure the baddies are explicitly not Sith, and only Sith dole out the title of Darth Well Manicured Man posted:And speaking of removing similarities to ANH, maybe they could have differentiated Jakku from Tattooine a bit more. If they'd made the sand/soil red, like Mars, it would fit the idea of Jakku as a sort of "graveyard" planet very well, as we understand Mars to be a planet that once had liquid water and may at one point have been teeming with life. Jakku being like a post-apocolyptic Tattooine is I think one of the more interesting things about TFA, just like the Starkiller base is what every dumb anti-Ewok nerd's fantasy of a post-death star-fallout Endor would be. Hell, even Takodana seemed like a post-collapse Yavin 4. TFA seems to take place in an almost explicit future where RotJ was the beginning of a dark future, it's really kind of unsettling Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 21:14
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I wish Takodana and D'Qar had been more distinct.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:19
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