|
Ytlaya posted:I think I like Eridan after this conversation: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004705 Did you like Dave from the very beginning? I'm curious because I found him obnoxious as Hell in Act 1 and only slowly warmed to him.
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 22:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 19:02 |
|
|
Ytlaya posted:edit: hahaha for some reason I knew Dave would like Gamzee 
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 22:48
|
|
|
Arsenic Lupin posted:Did you like Dave from the very beginning? I'm curious because I found him obnoxious as Hell in Act 1 and only slowly warmed to him. A little obnoxious as a person but fun to read. I feel like his behavior would come off as more obnoxious if it were an adult or older teen saying these things, but because he's just 13 it becomes funny. edit: Hm I was just wondering something. The trolls can select when on the kids' timelines to chat with them, but when the kids decide to chat with the trolls how is it determined when the trolls receive their message? Since IIRC their sessions are outside of spacetime or whatever. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jan 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 22:55
|
|
|
Sprite141 posted:Uhh, sorry dude but goon consensus says gilbert is terezi. Why can't every character be Gilbert Gottfried?
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 23:51
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:A little obnoxious as a person but fun to read. That is pretty much determined by Dramatic Timing as facilitated by Paradox Space. The general idea might be that the Kids and Trolls share a common time line in their respective universes, but time is pretty meaningless in the void.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 23:55
|
|
|
paradoxGentleman posted:I didn't know there was a story behind The Baby Is You! Anyone feel like giving us storytime? Well the main thing was that someone posted a drawing of Equius pregnant and the mods said none of that poo poo, but there's also a little bit about Dave/Rose and John/Jade art from before the Ectobiology reveal getting grandfathered in as exceptions to their no incest rule.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 00:28
|
|
|
paradoxGentleman posted:I didn't know there was a story behind The Baby Is You! Anyone feel like giving us storytime? I think the explanation was that there was a mod decision which said "No works of writing or art depicting such and such a thing of the characters who have just been revealed to be related to each other" and so toby said to themselves, "ah... but you see, the rule did not stipulate audio works" so it was done out of a whim/morbid curiosity of what such a thing would be Rodatose fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Jan 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
So, question regarding John's conversation with Vriska after prototyping Becquerel: Is Vriska saying that if she hadn't put John to sleep that, even though Becquerel wouldn't have been prototyped, that they would have been doomed to some failed timeline? And that, as a result, her doing that was not only "not evil" but even necessary? edit: I think Jade is easily my least favorite human, even after Rose became kind of weird. Hard to explain why, but she seems like the sort of person who is really nice to people as long as they're behaving in a way she likes, but doesn't want to understand and/or can't tolerate other behavior. Like, even when the nicer trolls would message her she would be completely unwilling to listen to them, at least for a while. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jan 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 00:52
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:So, question regarding John's conversation with Vriska after prototyping Becquerel: Is Vriska saying that if she hadn't put John to sleep that, even though Becquerel wouldn't have been prototyped, that they would have been doomed to some failed timeline? And that, as a result, her doing that was not only "not evil" but even necessary? Yes. That's her perspective in general - any sequence of events that isn't the one she knows is going to happen gets everyone wiped out from time, so if she causes those events, that can't be evil, no matter how much horrible harm she is thus responsible for. Indeed, she revels in it. Vriska has an "eat your cake and have it too" approach to morality. The fandom in general and this thread in particular have still not resolved what they think of Vriska. Tenebrais fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jan 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 00:56
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:So, question regarding John's conversation with Vriska after prototyping Becquerel: Is Vriska saying that if she hadn't put John to sleep that, even though Becquerel wouldn't have been prototyped, that they would have been doomed to some failed timeline? And that, as a result, her doing that was not only "not evil" but even necessary? Basically yes. The logic goes that at her point in the timeline, "he is already here", so his creation was a fixed point in the timeline that had to happen, and the fact that they are still talking to each other establishes that they each exist in the same timeline, ergo what happened could not have happened any other way. It's a bit to get your head around.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 00:58
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:So, question regarding John's conversation with Vriska after prototyping Becquerel: Is Vriska saying that if she hadn't put John to sleep that, even though Becquerel wouldn't have been prototyped, that they would have been doomed to some failed timeline? And that, as a result, her doing that was not only "not evil" but even necessary? It's all about making sure the events take place. Is she RIGHT in thinking the way she does? I guess we'll see
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 00:59
|
|
|
paradoxGentleman posted:I didn't know there was a story behind The Baby Is You! Anyone feel like giving us storytime? Because the internet is full of loving weirdos people kept posting fanart of the characters (who are all, I remind you, thirteen years old) pregnant. The mods banned pregnant fanart of the characters. The loving weirdos complained that they were being oppressed or whatever. So Radiation decided to mock them by telling everyone "Oh nooo I just spent 99999999 hours on this Pregnant John Opera and now no one will get to hear it." He actually made the Pregnant John Opera because gently caress doing anything half-assed. And that's the story of The Baby is You.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 01:04
|
|
|
The part where Jade falls asleep and sees dead Feferi in her dreams was p. creepy IMO. I like Feferi 
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 01:09
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:The part where Jade falls asleep and sees dead Feferi in her dreams was p. creepy IMO. I like Feferi Oh you're there. Oh.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 01:13
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:So, question regarding John's conversation with Vriska after prototyping Becquerel: Is Vriska saying that if she hadn't put John to sleep that, even though Becquerel wouldn't have been prototyped, that they would have been doomed to some failed timeline? And that, as a result, her doing that was not only "not evil" but even necessary?
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 01:14
|
|
|
"necessary evil" is pretty much vriskas middle name
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 01:15
|
|
|
Vriska doesn't care about the outcome so much as whether she caused it
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 01:18
|
|
|
Burkion posted:Oh you're there. Man, this makes me want to go back and listen to Catchyegrabber. And Eridan's Theme.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 01:39
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:edit: I think Jade is easily my least favorite human, even after Rose became kind of weird. Hard to explain why, but she seems like the sort of person who is really nice to people as long as they're behaving in a way she likes, but doesn't want to understand and/or can't tolerate other behavior. Like, even when the nicer trolls would message her she would be completely unwilling to listen to them, at least for a while. This is actually at least partially addressed later on as her relationship with Karkat in particular develops, but bear in mind that they (mostly Karkat) pretty actively and viciously harassed her pretty much throughout her entire life and it has understandably colored her opinion of the trolls in general in a negative light.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 02:21
|
|
|
After this conversation between Vriska and Tavro about how Vriska apparently caused all this bad stuff to happen, I get the impression that, while Vriska doesn't have a choice but to do this stuff, her very existence is still at fault for it happening. Also the conversation between Tavros and Jade was the most cringe-inducing thing. Tavros desperately needs therapy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 02:22
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:After this conversation between Vriska and Tavro about how Vriska apparently caused all this bad stuff to happen, I get the impression that, while Vriska doesn't have a choice but to do this stuff, her very existence is still at fault for it happening. Vriska is an exceptionally polarizing character, more than any other character in the comic by far, for countless reasons, and that debate is central to most of them. So yeah, you're definitely catching onto the gist of what Vriska represents.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 02:25
|
|
|
Spellman posted:Maybe, "necessary evil" is a good way of describing these situations. The wrinkle with that kind of "necessary evil" is it's always hinged on whether the person in question is vulnerable to that reasoning. Aradia (at least, Dead Aradia) is the ultimate example of this where she'll do anything, without much personal judgement, just because that's what's fated to happen. John on the other hand is a little too straightforward for that kind of logic to work on him, so when he completes a time loop it tends to be unconscious and accidental - you couldn't show him a future where he murders his friends and get him to do it because "it's fate", so consequently there aren't any futures like that to show him. Rose has a good line on Dave when he tries to claim he didn't tell Jade about what'd happen to him because he'd already seen that in the future he hadn't told her, where she points out that it's convenient he probably didn't want to tell her anyway, implying he still bears some responsibility. Likewise, Vriska isn't completely absolved from the terrible things she's done because she "had to", since the reason she had to do them is because she's the sort of hubristic egomaniac who would find a way to insert herself into causality by making something terrible and seemingly inevitable happen. It's like a sort of meta-morality, where the bad things you do are self-fulfilling prophecies based on your willingness to play ball with fate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 02:55
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:After this conversation between Vriska and Tavro about how Vriska apparently caused all this bad stuff to happen, I get the impression that, while Vriska doesn't have a choice but to do this stuff, her very existence is still at fault for it happening.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 03:02
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:The fandom in general and this thread in particular have still not resolved what they think of Vriska. Vriska(vriska) is the best and did nothing wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 03:08
|
|
|
What is the other blood mixed in with Vriska's here: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005025 Not sure what just happened. Dream Vriska tried to convince Tavros to finish her off, but he couldn't do it. And then there's other blood mixed in? And how did Vriska get hurt in the first place, I don't remember?
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 03:20
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:What is the other blood mixed in with Vriska's here: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005025 That's just after [S] Make Her Pay, when robo-Aradia wrecked Vriska's poo poo. The brown blood is Tavros' own, Vriska mind controlled him to write using her blood and got so frantic that his fingers ripped open and started bleeding. E: Homestuck is a story about kids and fun! Fender Anarchist fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jan 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 03:23
|
|
|
jetz0r posted:Vriska(vriska) is the best and did nothing wrong. Actually Vriska (Vriska) did many things wrong, but Vriska did nothing wrong and is the best.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 03:35
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:What is the other blood mixed in with Vriska's here: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005025 To add onto Enourmo's explanation, in case it wasn't fully clear what she was doing: Vriska wanted Tavros to finish her off so she'd die on her Quest Bed and ascend to God Tier form, like she'd engineered for John. In chickening out Tavros didn't actually rob her of that, he at least got her TO the Quest Bed, but then instead of making it quick he left her to bleed out slowly and painfully. Just another page in the hosed up history between the two of them. Also, tangentally something that's nice to know, part of the deal with the God Tier system is that, when you die on your Quest Bed, the God-Tier ascension only works if you have a living dream-self at the time, as the Dream Self literally becomes the primary (God-Tier) self, and the body that died on the Quest Bed is left there and remains dead. So if the person has no dream-self to accept the upgrade, so to speak, the Quest Bed ascension doesn't work. Have you hit Recap #3 yet? A lot of this might actually be covered in that, but I can't quite remember what point in the story it comes up.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 03:37
|
|
|
Dolash posted:The wrinkle with that kind of "necessary evil" is it's always hinged on whether the person in question is vulnerable to that reasoning. Aradia (at least, Dead Aradia) is the ultimate example of this where she'll do anything, without much personal judgement, just because that's what's fated to happen. John on the other hand is a little too straightforward for that kind of logic to work on him, so when he completes a time loop it tends to be unconscious and accidental - you couldn't show him a future where he murders his friends and get him to do it because "it's fate", so consequently there aren't any futures like that to show him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 03:55
|
|
|
CidGregor posted:Just another page in the hosed up history between the two of them. 8^y
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 03:58
|
|
|
Hahahaha the image on this page: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005152 Also I get the disconcerting impression that the dream/"regular" people are separate beings and that when John was killed on the dream bed that he was basically totally killed and only his dream self became the god and retained his memories.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 04:25
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:Hahahaha the image on this page: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005152 This is a scary thing and it is never confirmed one way or the other.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 04:32
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:Hahahaha the image on this page: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005152 Basically yes. The impermanence of death and the question of "which me is really the REAL me?" is another one of the running themes of Homestuck. You'll need a morse code translator very soon, by the way.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 04:35
|
|
|
Arsenic Lupin posted:This is a scary thing and it is never confirmed one way or the other. It's kind of a minor detail, but spoilers anyway I guess. It is explicitly shown to be just that. John is dead, his Dream Self lived on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 05:00
|
|
|
Classtoise posted:It's kind of a minor detail, but spoilers anyway I guess. Then again, if you think of it in a different way "John" is basically the sum of his real and dream selves. So in that sense John continues to live, just with part of his existence being gone. If both the dream and regular selves could be awake and conscious at the same time, I'd definitely subscribe 100% to the "if your regular/dream self is killed, that separate person is dead" theory, but since that isn't the case it's more uncertain.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 05:18
|
|
|
Classtoise posted:It's kind of a minor detail, but spoilers anyway I guess. I interpret that differently. It isn't clear if the ghost is the real John, the Dream Self is the real John, or the real John from Act 1 is dead. We know for a fact that a living person can still have multiple ghosts in the dream bubbles.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 05:21
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:Then again, if you think of it in a different way "John" is basically the sum of his real and dream selves. So in that sense John continues to live, just with part of his existence being gone. Except that no part of John's existence is gone; god tier John is well aware that Vriska had him stabbed. No memories are lost.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 05:23
|
|
|
Much as one Mario is the same Mario no matter how many Marios you went through to get to the end of the game, One John is All Johns.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 05:26
|
|
|
Arsenic Lupin posted:This is a scary thing and it is never confirmed one way or the other. Except in [S] Seer: Remember you mean?
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 05:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 19:02 |
|
|
Jade is gradually becoming much more tolerable. The comic actually kind of directly addressed how she would irrationally flip out when she prototyped her dream self, though I think her dream self in that situation kind of had a really good excuse to go crazy. Actually, her dream self having all these post-dead memories actually kind of strongly supports the "dream and regular selves are separate" theory. Also, Sollux and Feferi are glubbing about feelings. I like Feferi, she is like a better Jade. edit: Question - Do they ever clarify what is up with all the different classes? Like apparently Kanaya is a Sylph of Space and Jade is a Witch of Space; is there any difference between those? Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jan 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 05:38
|
|