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My Lovely Horse posted:How the hell is that someone's make-or-break factor when deciding on a system Either they really really prefer a certain sheet format, or it's a passive aggressive way to try and dodge GMing for 4th ed. A long time internet friend of mine, has another friend very vocal about how 4th ed is lame bad wrong fun (except at-wills for wizards is cool good original thinking in 5th ed, because-) who literally caused the apocalypse in one of the rare 4th ed Games they ran. One of the side effects was "Due to the resulting fallout, this reality now runs on Pathfinder. Now, roll up new characters". I mean, sure with full context that was "The finale of that short single digit level campaign was the apocalypse the players knew was coming, and our next session was set hundreds of years later". But still. Section Z fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 13:56
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| # ? May 15, 2024 15:35 |
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gently caress, if he's just trying to weasel out of running 4e I'll make the Google Spreadsheet myself.
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Jan 14, 2016 14:06
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I'm running a game for some friends and I ma really taking to MasterPlan, but for the life of me I can't find out how to do short and extended rests with it.
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Jan 17, 2016 02:03
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When you start an encounter, before you roll initiative you get a panel where stat blocks usually show up that has an option called "update PC HP." There you can set each PCs current HP. I don't think it tracks healing surges or spent powers.
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Jan 17, 2016 09:14
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What makes encounters fun for you guys? I want it to be more then "You hit them, they hit you, oh watch out for this trap / hazard."
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Jan 19, 2016 04:56
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Turtlicious posted:What makes encounters fun for you guys? I want it to be more then "You hit them, they hit you, oh watch out for this trap / hazard." 1.) Gimmicks. Monsters that stack increasingly worse conditions that have to be removed either through powers the players have or through some other environmental factor. Monsters with circumstantially avoidable powers. Environmental effects that change from round to round or under specific (but ever-shifting) circumstances. 2.) Stakes. It's not enough to say, "you walk into the room, these monsters attack you." Why fight them? Because there's something the players need on the other side? Because they have to protect something? Because they monsters are protecting something? Goals in the combat besides 'slay the other side.'
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Jan 19, 2016 10:08
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Is there a way to spoof permanent bloodied status in 4E? And yes, I know it's a bad idea because of the number of monsters that key off it. Just doing some science projects here.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:42
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A pile of Blood Fury weapons. Not perma, but with a way to quickly/freely swap weapons it would effectively be at-will bloodied status.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:02
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Nothing permanent. Blood Fury weapon is the best way. Battlecrazed Weapon is a worse way. I suppose you could find a way to Flensing Weapon yourself but I don't recommend it. What I might do instead is just run around at half HP and use THP instead to make up for the lost HP. There are plenty of ways to rake in THP.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:10
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Is there a way to spoof permanent bloodied status in 4E? And yes, I know it's a bad idea because of the number of monsters that key off it. Just doing some science projects here. Not what you're looking for, but related: you can also bloody enemies prematurely with Infernal Eye's Vision of Death which can be immensely useful with a warlock with Bloodied Boon.
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Jan 20, 2016 11:44
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Is there a way to spoof permanent bloodied status in 4E? And yes, I know it's a bad idea because of the number of monsters that key off it. Just doing some science projects here. There are a variety of ways to get giant piles of temps and just get real-bloodied and stay healthy anyway, but none that just make you perma-bloodied.
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Jan 20, 2016 18:10
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Rules question about order of operations that I don't understand. Say I'm firing off 'static charge' the Elementalist close burst that says "one enemy adjacent to your target takes CHA mod in damage" and I have Mark of Storm which is "when you hit an enemy with a lightning or thunder power you can slide that enemy one square" can I choose the order of operations or is their a fixed damage->other effects. I'm asking for cases like this. If you have a grid like: code:1) Resolve guys one at a time, in a fixed order (damage -> slide) (results in 1 x cha mod to damage) 2) Resolve guys one at a time, in a chosen order (slide -> damage) (results in 2 x cha mod to damage) If I can slide then apply damage, I can hit the top left guy, slide him into the middle and he zaps the other guy with damage splash, then the other guy zaps him. But if you do all the damage, then slide guys you don't get the cha mod. If you do them damage -> slide one at time, then Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 00:36
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Well, the RC says that if an attack has more than one target you do the "roll attack, check results, apply effects" thing target by target, and your slide is conditioned to the moment you hit, so it seems like you could use option 2 without issue.
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Jan 22, 2016 01:26
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There is no fixed order of operations, so usually I'd say as a DM that it's up to the attacker to decide.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:39
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So, two quick questions. My players are going to be fighting Solo monsters for the most part. My group has two defenders in it, a swordmage and a paladin. From what I understand, they'll both want to mark their targets. Which they'll be fighting over, since making doesn't stack. I'm not sure what kind of abilities both classes have with regards to making. But, is it a good idea to have both marks stack in this situation? For the purpose of making things more fun for my players; just basically the monster is considered marked by both players and that monster gets negatives to attack with other players. Or does that break the game too much? Also, saving throws; I'm pretty I missed it somewhere so I want it clarified: at the end of a player's turn, do they get to make saving throws to every condition that a save ends or just one?
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Jan 22, 2016 21:06
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Vinchenz posted:So, two quick questions. Defenders: I would probably not allow both marks to stack, myself, because it defeats the purpose... A mark should set up a Catch-22, but if both defenders mark the same monster, they are left with zero viable options. This is another good reason to have multiple monsters in a fight. Saves - yes, every condition that a save can end.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:12
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End-of-turn saving throws are made against every save-ends effect, not just one. As for those marks: the Fighter can choose to mark any enemy when he attacks it. The Swordmage has a different mark that he can choose to place on one enemy. I wouldn't stack them. They shouldn't conflict badly as long as you remember which mark punishment is in effect. Deciding when to swap the mark could add a neat little extra tactical element to the fight for both players.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:14
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Ultimately I just don't think "mostly solos" and "multiple defenders" are concepts that mesh very well, outside of super-strong solo brutes that can batter a defender so much he needs to tag his buddy in halfway through. Which is a great idea but you can't set that up for every combat. How about making your own solos out of standard and elite monsters that you refluff to make up one creature? Huge robot with an elite soldier torso, a standard brute right arm, a standard controller left arm and some minion artillery shoulder cannons. Would take a bit of system reworking and movement would be tricky, as would area attacks, but it's more within expected parameters for the system to have multiple targets on the battlefield. e: my group has two defenders but I don't do a lot of solo combats; partly for that very reason. But when I do, the party is also six characters strong, so I usually already have support monsters along. And anyway the paladin functions equally well as a secondary leader. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 21:20
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Thanks for the answers, guys! To clarify; this is an epic-leveled campaign that's pretty much just solo encounters, kind-of gimmicky in a way. I've already planned most of the fights, and some of them will have other monsters in the mix, but yeah it's mostly just the one monster per session. I'm trying my best to design varied and fun fights, but I'll see after the first session how successful it'll be :P I think I will go with the the marking rules as defined; I like the idea that it could be a tactical element for the players.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:37
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I watched a group of five level 2 players take out a single level 4 solo Young Black Dragon from the Monster Vault without breaking a sweat, which really drove home the need for more varied combat encounters than just single monster. They had more trouble with the roughly level 4-5 encounter I had made out of bugbears and hobgoblins at level 3; at least in that fight one of the players went down. It really comes down to the action economy, and I know post MM3 Epic Monsters have things to make up for it like multi-attacks, multiple initiatives, action points, etc., but remember that your players have access to at least four encounter attack powers, four dailies, and numerous utilities and off-turn abilities - many of which carry debilitating conditions or powerful buffs. If not other monsters in the mix, definitely make sure you have other bits like traps and hazards or make defeating the enemy more puzzle-like than straight damage dealing. Otherwise your players are just going to spend their time beating on it like a pinata instead of having a tactically interesting fight.
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Jan 22, 2016 22:07
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Note that a multi-defender party can still clown and catch-22 a solo with some coordination, especially at epic. Fighters and other sticky defenders like wardens combo well with ranged defenders like paladins and swordmages because the ranged defender can sit some distance back while the melee defender locks down the solo. If the solo beats on the sticky defender then the solo provokes punishment from the ranged defender (which is fantastic if it's a hospitalier paladin with weakening challenge, for example, or a sigil carver swordmage) while if the solo tries to close in with the ranged defender then the sticky defender can OA the solo and hold it in place, forcing it to eat the ranged defender's punishment. As you level you can get even more powers that let you punish things you haven't actually marked, such as the fighter's Dust Storm Assault or Strike of the Watchful Guard dailies, or the Paladin's Demand Respect encounter or Discipline the Unruly daily, or the swordmage's Dimensional Vortex, and this is before you get into the various martyr powers that let you throw yourself in front of an attack in order to make it provoke a different defender's punishment such as the Guardian's Strike theme power or using Lightning Rush every single round as a battlemind.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:01
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Yeah, at epic, two defenders who coordinate will have no trouble being really nasty to any one particular monster. Conflicting marks is only really an issue in heroic.
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Jan 23, 2016 03:51
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Even in heroic there's enough options like using a ranged defender to mark and then put a sticky defender between the target and the ranged defender in order to force the enemy to either violate the mark or eat OAs (and quite possibly still violate the mark) while trying to attack the ranged defender, but that will still take some degree of coordination when assembling the party. Plus stuff like Lightning Rush and Guardian's Strike to force punishments, but you don't have quite the degree of shenanigans you get at epic.
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Jan 23, 2016 04:21
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I just remembered that "Misdirected Mark" is a thing, that Bards get. I always thought it was pretty cool, what do goons think?
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Jan 23, 2016 10:15
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There used to be a whole thread on the WotC forums about multi-defender parties, it had some really useful tactics advice. But WotC. It essentially centres around using one defender to mark (typically the one who has the scariest punishment, ideally an opportunity action one) and to punish people for attacking him, and the others to use the generally common forced movement and action control options that Defenders have to give him targets and prevent the enemy from being good at attacking him. The key elements are things like Glowering Threat that penalise attacking others without marking, and Battle Awareness which gives a non-mark mark punishment. And the various Battlemind and Swordmage interrupts that let you get licks in against enemies. P.d0t posted:I just remembered that "Misdirected Mark" is a thing, that Bards get. I always thought it was pretty cool, what do goons think? Misdirected Mark is fairly meh as a power IIRC though it is a fun effect.
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Jan 23, 2016 10:44
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That thread got saved here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471616-Night-at-the-Roxbury-Tricks-for-Multiple-Defender-Parties-(by-GelationousOctahedron)
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Jan 23, 2016 13:21
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P.d0t posted:I just remembered that "Misdirected Mark" is a thing, that Bards get. I always thought it was pretty cool, what do goons think?
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Jan 23, 2016 17:04
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Just keep in mind that most defenders have a plethora of tools to do their job, with their mark being just one of many of such tools - the lesser of their tools for a few defenders, at that.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:17
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So a while ago I had this idea for the Minotaur Maze dungeon, a labyrinth that rearranges itself as you walk through it, and I wasn't quite sure how to work that during combat and in Masterplan, but then I thought of sliding tile puzzles and I think that might be the solution. Have a section of 6x6 squares of the battlemap that contains three 3x3 tiles and one empty space (which could be completely free or completely blocked). Every round, the three tiles move clockwise, and corridor intersections with the rest of the map and between the tiles get shuffled around accordingly. That setup could be a good bottleneck for a map where you have to go from A to B - you might have to wait until the entrance to the sliding section opens up with monsters in pursuit, or monsters might enter the section while you're in it waiting to be ferried to the other side. And then once the mechanics are established I can do fun stuff like have a donut-shaped sliding section, with a fixed bit in the middle that houses a powerful monster. On round 3 or 4, the tile that allows it to get outside slides in place, you better be gone by then. Or have two of those sections that connect in one specific spot that only opens up every X rounds. Gonna be hard to work out, but I've a feeling it's gonna be fun and memorable.
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Jan 24, 2016 13:11
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I just started up a 4e game with recommendations here to buy the Rules Compendium and Monster Vault. I opted to just get the PH one and limit the players some; if someone really wants to be a druid/bard/barbarian they can spend  on Amazon. I got the RC, MV, and PH1 for $22 total with shipping. Back in 2012 when the 4e Menzoberranzan: City of Intrigue was released I purchased that and ran an AD&D 2nd edition Underdrak campaign for three players for about a year. Enjoying Forgotten Realms, we ran a two player game then for another year; this was a bit more standard. In the Underdark game the players were evil drow and while they had henchmen for the dungeon crawls; there were several times the drow PCs had to take care of things where henchmen would not be allowed. The surface game was good-aligned and the two PCs needed to collect good henchmen to fight the Zhentil, Half-Elf Renegades, and all the green dragons in and around the High Forest. For this 4e game I got four players: a dwarf cleric, half-orc paladin, dragonborn ranger, and drow warlock. I did pull stats for more races for the PCs to have a lot of choices. They all choose to worship the Raven Queen because of how she was presented in the PH1. They all find it weird that they are unaligned and not like neutral in alignment. Even thou Halls of the Undermountain is in Forgotten Realms and the Raven Queen is from Greyhawk, I told the players they needed to save 1gp from their 100gp starting amount to pay for access to the well in the Yawning Portal. I have left the players in the dark on plot and we just dived into figuring out how to fight monsters. The PCs were amazed at how vicious level 1 goblins and kobolds are with attack and damage. But the PCs worked well together and we all enjoyed the healing surges during a short rest. A wave of kobolds, then kobolds with a guard drake, then goblins, then a trap, then the level 1 white dragon. They were scared of the white dragon at first but the cleric hit Wrathful Thunder and dazed the dragon for a turn in which the ranger hit Jaws of the Wolf with his Hunter’s Quarry for a good amount. I did drop the cleric to negative HP with 20 damage critical hit breath weapon when they bloodied the dragon. A lay on hands from the paladin solved that. They were super bummed out to find they lose the proficiency bonus with a magic weapon; they are second looking at these +1 weapons as one trick pony’s with their daily powers and can use minor actions to switch back to their regular weapons. For plot I am going to go with that they are from Greyhawk and came to the Realms thru the Infinite Stair case. The fluff of 4e says Halaster is finally dead after 1100 years and the Raven Queen wants to confirm; so sending level 1 adventures is pretty much status quo for something like that. Duran the 7th runs the Yawning Portal and I only charged them 1gp from my AD&D material but I found out that in 4e it is up to 10gp, so I am going to tell the players they were allowed down the well during very off hours at a low price by Duran to search out what has been ambushing adventures. Without the dude with the parrot to not alert the crazy half-elf’s kobold and goblin forces, the adventures were able to go down the well and just start dungeon crawling. I am going to give the PCs time to interact in the inn later but really just wanted to jump into 4e rolling dice.
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Jan 24, 2016 17:30
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Can I ask where you got the books that cheap?
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Jan 24, 2016 17:54
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No Luck Needed posted:They were super bummed out to find they lose the proficiency bonus with a magic weapon; they are second looking at these +1 weapons as one trick pony’s with their daily powers and can use minor actions to switch back to their regular weapons. What now? Unless they're picking up magic items with which they're not proficient, they shouldn't lose that bonus, and if they are, you as a DM are Doing It Wrong, whatever the mod says.
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Jan 24, 2016 18:04
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Network42 posted:Can I ask where you got the books that cheap? amazon baby thespaceinvader posted:What now? Unless they're picking up magic items with which they're not proficient, they shouldn't lose that bonus, and if they are, you as a DM are Doing It Wrong, whatever the mod says. I do need to read more; so if you are profficent in say Great Sword you get the +3 prof bonus and say +1 from a magic weapon? That will make the PCs very happy and I don't care, that just means I can toss out higher AC mobs
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Jan 24, 2016 18:09
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No Luck Needed posted:I do need to read more; so if you are profficent in say Great Sword you get the +3 prof bonus and say +1 from a magic weapon? That will make the PCs very happy and I don't care, that just means I can toss out higher AC mobs Yes. The only bonuses that don't stack are bonuses of the same type. Power bonuses and feat bonuses are the two types most likely to have multiples, but there are lots. In addition, anything that just says "+X bonus" is considered untyped, and can always be stacked with anything except itself.
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Jan 24, 2016 18:12
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No Luck Needed posted:They all find it weird that they are unaligned and not like neutral in alignment. 
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Jan 24, 2016 18:29
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No Luck Needed posted:amazon baby Correct. Proficiency bonuses and enhancement bonuses stack. A magic sward makes you MORE accurate, indeed, the progression of magic item bonuses is built into the numerical progression of the game.
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Jan 24, 2016 19:42
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My Lovely Horse posted:Easily accomodated: replace every reference to "unaligned" with "neutral." It really doesn't enter into anything mechanically. No, I find the unaligned thing neat. I suppose I will miss the Plane of Concordant Opposition, the Outlands, but I can set up the cosmos however I really want. I find it interesting that Plague Mort is still around in the Abyss but no mention of it acting as a gate town to the Outlands in the fluff I have found. I do not mind the Astral Sea and the Abyss, thought it was weird that the Nine Hells are in the Astral Sea but after reading the 4e origin of the Abyss I am on board. I like that 4e is several hundred years in the future from AD&D and 3-3.5 game settings. I always enjoyed moving editions in Shadowrun so we could see which AAA went up or down, whom new players where, what happened to say the Aztec Arcology. Like I read about of 4e Shadowrun fluff, but only had 3rd edition rules, so I set the game in like 2050, the timeline of 2nd so I could do things that happen in the 2060s, 2070s, and 2080s that if the players would wikipedia they would be like, wow I helped do that even though it was written years in the past about a fake future. In this D&D 4e game I am going to run the Undermountain, get them to Skullport, give them the option to go to Menzobarranzan, and eventually leave the Realms using the Infinite Staircase. As "unaligned" PCs I think I will enjoy testing them with slavers in Skullport and other morale choices; being strangers in a strangle land how will they react. I am trying to think of any other questions about game play I need answered, but 4e seems pretty user friendly. When looking at 4e vs 5e for upgrading from AD&D 2nd edition, I will play 3-3.5 but I won't DM it, I wanted something fast play and something where the fighter does more than just attack. 5e seemed like a cleaned up 3rd with some 4e features, so why would I want to play that? My opinion on editions of D&D are kinda simple: OD&D is a dungeon crawl, AD&D 2e is a roleplaying game, 3e is a rules set for miniatures, 4e is a rules set for mmorpg-inspired pen-and-paper game, and 5e seems like a compromise that DMs will just have to house rule to make playable. But that is just my opinions. I really don't see a reason to play anything but AD&D 2nd edition but I wanted something new and 4e is both player and DM friendly, something that I don't think 3-3.5 was.
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Jan 25, 2016 01:08
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RIP DDI. Tried logging in today, getting a 404 when I put in the password, clicking the link for accounts / forgot password takes me to a page with a list of CMS error When I log in: http://dnd.wizards.com/404?aspxerrorpath=/Default.aspx Site giving me the CMSError: https://accounts.wizards.com/ Forgot Password Page says it's turned off: https://accounts.wizards.com/AccountRecovery/ForgotPassword
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Jan 27, 2016 13:09
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What the hell is WOTC's D&D department even for anymore?
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Jan 27, 2016 13:11
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| # ? May 15, 2024 15:35 |
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Compendium, The Character Builder, and charging me a month for a broken product apparently.
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Jan 27, 2016 13:16
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