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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOlG4T1S2lU I know this is like sunlight to vampires but just watch from 3:25 to 4:05 to get a reminder that the visuals of the Poor Oppressed Battle Droids being killed is comedic and silly, and George Lucas explicitly says they are useless cannon fodder e: Here's the full clip of him talking about Battle Droids https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOlG4T1S2lU Tezzor fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 22:37
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storm troopers are also pretty useless though
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Jan 19, 2016 22:38
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stop making me defend this bad movies
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Jan 19, 2016 22:38
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Tezzor posted:[video type="youtube"]SOlG4T1S2lU?t3m25s[/video] Hey, Tezzor, since you've completely failed to grasp the concept of "underlying message", I have to ask: what do you think Starship Troopers is saying about the military? And yeah, Lucas says they're useless and cut down like butter. So they're expendable, cheap, replaceable sentient beings sent into battle at the whims of their masters. Then we see the clones and the cinematography links the two constantly. How exactly does Lucas saying they're cannon fodder change a drat thing? Where do you think the phrase cannon fodder came from? Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 22:41
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I just now realized that blockade isn't even a ring around the planet like I thought since I was a kid. They could have just gone in literally any other direction to thwart it.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:43
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Hbomberguy posted:Like half of AOTC is spent in the facilities where clones are made, and then the facilities where droids are made. This is why Trump is winning. Edit--that is to say, he's winning because the people who like him know you think this.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:43
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SHISHKABOB posted:Cool can you place that quote in context. Today, the social process is again perceived as dominated by an anonymous Force beyond social control. The rise of galactic capitalism is presented to us as such a Force, against which one cannot fight - one either adapts oneself to it, or one falls out of step with history and one is crushed. The only thing one can do is to make galactic capitalism as human as possible, to fight for 'galactic capitalism with a human face' (this is what, ultimately, the Jedi Order is - or, rather, WAS - about). The sound barrier will have to be broken here, the risk will have to be taken to endorse again large collective decisions - this, perhaps, is the main legacy of Darth Vader and his comrades to us today.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:43
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Ravenfood posted:Jesus gently caress this review is so bad. "My god, the Jedi are lying to the Gungans to get to their destination!? Clearly Lucas doesn't know what he's doing with his plot". Actually its good.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:44
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Ravenfood posted:Jesus gently caress this review is so bad. "My god, the Jedi are lying to the Gungans to get to their destination!? Clearly Lucas doesn't know what he's doing with his plot". There is no underlying message of "man this sure is tragic" about the deaths of clones and robots in the prequel films. That might be an interesting idea, but it is neither shown nor told in the films, and exists merely in the headcanon and apologia of fanboys. To be fair the idea is explored to some degree in a small minority of episodes of a Star Wars cartoon for children, but exists not at all in the films themselves. I hope this has clarified matters
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Jan 19, 2016 22:45
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Hbomberguy posted:Like half of AOTC is spent in the facilities where clones are made, and then the facilities where droids are made. It also puts them in a big battle in a colosseum. Afterwards they fly off and have a giant battle where their forms are screened by the dust kicked up by their violence towards each other. No war but class war.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:47
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Tezzor posted:There is no underlying message of "man this sure is tragic" about the deaths of clones and robots in the prequel films. It's not tragic; it's comedic. Have you not been paying attention?
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Jan 19, 2016 22:47
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Tezzor posted:There is no underlying message of "man this sure is tragic" about the deaths of clones and robots in the prequel films. That might be an interesting idea, but it is neither shown nor told in the films, and exists merely in the headcanon and apologia of fanboys. To be fair the idea is explored to some degree in a small minority of episodes of a Star Wars cartoon for children, but exists not at all in the films themselves. I hope this has clarified matters it actually is shown in the films in that we see clones and robots die
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Jan 19, 2016 22:48
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Tezzor posted:There is no underlying message of "man this sure is tragic" about the deaths of clones and robots in the prequel films. That might be an interesting idea, but it is neither shown nor told in the films, and exists merely in the headcanon and apologia of fanboys. To be fair is is explored to some degree in a small minority of episodes of a Star Wars cartoon for children, but exists not at all in the films themselves. I hope this has clarified matters e: seriously, what do you think "cannon fodder" originally described? how does describing the droids as that do anything but undermine your own point?
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Jan 19, 2016 22:51
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No one laughed, or cried, or cared, when the droids died. This means the movie is good, because you're a dirty capitalist pig.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:52
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I don't really see what's so confusing about Darth Vader's status in the Original Trilogy? He's subservient to Grand Moff Tarkin in ANH, and Moff Jejerrod, Admirals Ozzel and Piett and General Veers are subservient to him in ESB and RotJ. You could infer any number of explanations to this-- "Darth Vader" outranks Moff and Admiral but not Grand Moff, Tarkin was the number two guy in the Empire until he loving died, Darth Vader rose through the ranks of the Empire in the time between the movies in parallel to Luke, Han, and Leia becoming more important in the Rebellion, etc. The (actually pretty good) Darth Vader comics from Kieron Gillen deal a lot with Vader and his place in the Empire between ANH and ESB (it starts with him in the political doghouse as the sole survivor of the Death Star debacle and placed directly under the command of a newly-promoted Grand General Tagge), but you don't even need to fall back on an EU explanation-- Darth Vader is consistently subordinate to certain characters (Palpatine, Tarkin) and above certain other characters. Anyway, since this is Battledroid chat: One thing I like about the Battle of Geonosis-- or, at least, the later stages of it, is that it's kind of, like, reverse Hoth? You have the heroes leading a bunch of Stormtroopers and AT-ATs and Star Destroyers from the right of the screen against a base on the left of the screen. You have cutaways to the Separatist leaders inside their base, realizing that they're hosed and need to order an evacuation, you have Dooku getting separated and escaping in his own ship after being pursued by Darth Vader, you have Stormtroopers and AT-ATs and angular Star Destroyers shooting at rounded evacuation ships. I guess AotC in general has a lot of backwards scenes from ESB? Obi-Wan chasing Slave I through an asteroid field and such. But it also just has some stuff that's the other way around, like when Dooku is trying to convince Obi-wan to join him and the scene basically just devolves into them quoting Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker's conversation verbatim.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:53
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Ravenfood posted:So all of the visual links between the droid/clones, and the OT droids explicitly being the peasantry in Hidden Fortress, is a complete accident?
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Jan 19, 2016 22:56
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The clones are literally 'droids with a human face'. The audience is led to side with them against the more abstract/insectile robot designs, even though there is actually no difference between them. That's the same point as in Starship Troopers.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:56
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I've been watching some Clone Wars lately and a lot of it is pretty fun. There's a great episode where C-3PO and R2 are out running an errand in Coruscant and 3PO gets kidnapped and tortured by bounty hunters while R2 goes to the robot spa to get a rub and tug.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:56
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No war but star war.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:57
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Ersatz posted:The visual links support a "droids are people" read. But they can just as easily be read as showing that the Jedi and the Republic are bad, because they're exploiting the clones as if they were nothing more than the mindless killer robots that they've been made to fight. Yeah, both the droids and the clones are people, enslaved, and stuck in a war that isn't theirs. They are very much the same. The Jedi and the Republic are bad, and the Separatists are no better. They both used armies of slaves.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:58
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Neurolimal is really bad at summarizing arguments. I think he does it to discredit his "opponents". I'm seriously drawing a blank on what you're talking about here
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Jan 19, 2016 22:59
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I really want a random battle droid to pop up in one of the new movies, working with the resistance or something. That would be kinda neat.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ww0b49w3EY Watch this video and tell me George Lucas has any respect for the battle droids or how tragic it is that they are being used for violence. I dare you. Here's a transcript if you can't be assed: George Lucas: This is one of our battle droids, actually, take a look at this... Steven Spielberg: Oh, he's cool! GL: This is the new stormtrooper. SS: Oh, man! GL: This is our new stormtrooper... SS: So man wait, he's the old model, replaced by "Star Wars" to be the new stormtrooper... GL: Yeah, because, what you don't realize is that these guys really are not very efficient. They, uh... these things... Yeah, Jedi cut them down like they're butter, and they really are pretty useless. SS: Yeah, pretty useless, this old...dangleweed here... [...] SS: Yeah, these droids, they can't get the physiology right... GL: And so what happens in the end is they all join forces and everything and the [Gungans] battle the droids in this huuuuge kind of "War and Peace" battle. SS: Uh huh. GL: Like, literally, "War and Peace." SS: Right. GL: Huuuge. Y'know, ten thousand troops on either side... SS: Like both sides coming at each other? GL: Coming at each other. SS: That's great. GL: It's gonna be great. SS: That's gonna be great. GL: It's gonna be great. SS: That's gonna be great. Tezzor fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 23:01
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Hbomberguy posted:Like half of AOTC is spent in the facilities where clones are made, and then the facilities where droids are made. Why are you a space racist?
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Jan 19, 2016 23:01
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Again, that line also applies he has no respect for the stormtroopers though
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Jan 19, 2016 23:02
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Serf posted:Yeah, both the droids and the clones are people, enslaved, and stuck in a war that isn't theirs. They are very much the same. The Jedi and the Republic are bad, and the Separatists are no better. They both used armies of slaves.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:03
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Tezzor posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOlG4T1S2lU Have you ever seen something that's simultaneously kind of funny and kind of sad?
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Jan 19, 2016 23:03
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Like it is possible for Lucas to have both "robots are people" and "certain characters are just canon fodder" floating around in his head. Droids are people, storm troopers are people, but both are canon fodder Lucas can't be arse about in the end of the day. Stop making me defend these bad movies.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:03
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PBS Newshour posted:Again, that line also applies he has no respect for the stormtroopers though Well, not much, but it does indicate that he thinks Stormtroopers are less incompetent than battle droids. It also indicates that he thinks a huuuuge battle where a ton of them get destroyed is going to be a totally awesome spectacle and not a terrible tragedy, like most people who are not loving insane and don't weep over dead pretend robots we have no reason to care about at all
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Jan 19, 2016 23:05
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Like you have basically stormtroopers who are faceless due to their helmets, the battledroids and clones who are faceless because they literally all have the same face, and now you have the new storm troopers who start out as individuals but are forcibly shaped by into being faceless numbers.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:06
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Tezzor posted:Well, not much, but it does indicate that he thinks Stormtroopers are less incompetent than battle droids. It also indicates that he thinks a huuuuge battle where a ton of them get destroyed is going to be totally awesome and not a terrible tragedy like most people who are not loving insane and weep over dead pretend robots we have no reason to care about at all That is because its not a tragedy. I am not arguing that bit of crazy thought.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:07
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Frackie Robinson posted:Have you ever seen something that's simultaneously kind of funny and kind of sad? Prequel apologism
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Jan 19, 2016 23:07
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Tezzor posted:Prequel apologism lol
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Jan 19, 2016 23:08
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Tezzor's posts are so bad I think every time I read one I like the prequels a little more.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:09
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Not to derail this discussion, but I have a Star Wars question. I just watched Attack of the Clones for the first time in quite a while. So, these two things happen: 1.) Palpatine tricks the senate into giving him all the power, then says he'll make an army. 2.) That army saves the good guys and kills the bad guys. Between those two events, it doesn't seem like a particularly large amount of time has passed. Surely, some senators will realize that the republic has flexed its military muscles to deal a blow to the separatists. Aren't there going to be some senators wondering where that army came from? Is this a plot point in episode III that I totally forgot?
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Jan 19, 2016 23:09
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Tezzor posted:Well, not much, but it does indicate that he thinks Stormtroopers are less incompetent than battle droids. It also indicates that he thinks a huuuuge battle where a ton of them get destroyed is going to be a totally awesome spectacle and not a terrible tragedy, like most people who are not loving insane and don't weep over dead pretend robots we have no reason to care about at all you are aware of what war and peace is right a book wherein the first, oh, third or so is about one of the main characters realizing that war is not glorious while the other main character (a well meaning and kind but ultimately bumbling kind of foolish sort) has greatness thrust upon him i mean if lucas is talking about the battle of austerlitz as a big "war and peace" battle then that's a fascinating thing to say
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Jan 19, 2016 23:11
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Tezzor posted:Prequel apologism There's plenty to attack in the prequels, but I don't think you're taking a particularly strong angle here. I don't think the posters saying that droids are people in the Star Wars universe mean that we're to shed a tear over their demise, they're just saying that our protagonists' indifference to the droids reflects poorly on their character, and that it isn't altogether an accident. I don't think that's a massive leap.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:11
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Tezzor posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOlG4T1S2lU
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Jan 19, 2016 23:13
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Seaniqua posted:Not to derail this discussion, but I have a Star Wars question. There's a scene where Yoda, Palpatine, and a bunch of senators are watching a report from Obi-Wan, and afterwards one of them says "We need that clone army," with the implication being that Yoda told them about it offscreen. As for why it was there in the first place, the Kaminoans' story is that the Jedi ordered it.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:15
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Ersatz posted:You keep saying that the battle droids are people, but why do you assume that those droids, in particular, are self-aware? The fact that they have personalities is a big indicator. A snarky "you're welcome" to Grievous in ROTS shows that they're capable of both humor and interaction. They attempt to flee when outmatched and surrender when they're beaten. Star Wars has yet to show me a non-sentient droid in any of the films. Therefore I can only assume that they don't know how to make them. Things like Cloud City and the Millennium Falcon also have personalities that speak to R2-D2 and C-3P0. The Clone Wars cartoon is "canon" for whatever that's worth and it shows battle droids having conversations with each other. Chopper in Rebels is a grumpy astromech who doesn't like people. Droid personhood is pretty undeniable in Star Wars.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:15
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