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I think Jake from an old Cinema Snob video put "Not a Movie" as a film that does not have some kind of coherent story being told. It is two different things though. "Not A Movie" is usually used to describe a movie that is just bad for one reason or another. Not A Game is used to discredit games where stuff doesn't blow up.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:04
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Terrible Opinions posted:Movies with an absurd amount of filler to meet time requirements I've heard referred to as "only barely a movie" or "only technically a movie". Specifically various things the Cinema Snob, Hagan, and Movie Mastery would review. First think I think of is that "film" brad did that was just people having sex in a room with a Nazi flag that called itself a Nazi exploitation. Entorage the movie can be "not a movie" in the sense that it should have been a TV movie on HBO.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:53
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What if we called it 'interactive entertainment'?
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Jan 20, 2016 05:19
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Max Wilco posted:What if we called it 'interactive entertainment'? Sounds like something for the Philips CD-i.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:22
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To be honest I usually just instantly dismiss anyone who says "not a game" as a faux pretentious gently caress head who just wants to bitch about Gone Home but in the same breath praise The Stanley Parable. To clarify both are games or "walking simulators" if you must but I just haven't ever heard a good argument from the not a game crowd that isn't smug as all gently caress. Tracula fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 05:35
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Jim released a new video on how Suqare Enix chopping up their titles, and how the comapny is just confused and doesn't know what consumers want.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:44
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"Video game" is just simply not a useful term, and never has been. From as long as we could represent things more complex than dots zipping around a CRT, there have been efforts which stretch the definition of "game". Text adventures, for example, are more similar to novels than they are to Pac-Man. Is Sim City a game? Will Wright doesn't think so; he describes all of his own games as "software toys". So the question should not be "what is a video game", it should be "why the gently caress do we insist on still calling these things video games?" Fake Edit: also there's a surprise new Tropes Vs. Women https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujTufg1GvR4
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Jan 20, 2016 05:47
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Tracula posted:To be honest I usually just instantly dismiss anyone who says "not a game" as a faux pretentious gently caress head who just wants to bitch about Gone Home but in the same breath praise The Stanley Parable. What if I argued that Stanley Parable had better jokes than Gone Home? (I can't actually argue that. I've played Gone Home, but I haven't gotten around to playing Stanley Parable yet, outside of the demo.)
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Jan 20, 2016 05:51
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Annointed posted:Jim released a new video on how Suqare Enix chopping up their titles, and how the comapny is just confused and doesn't know what consumers want. It funny how Nintendo may be more in touch with it's costumers and that is saying something. their where making great games in the last 3 years when the PS4 and the xbox 1 where getting HD remakes of games less then 5 years old. but I fear about final fantasy 7 since we all know it going to sell hot. DStecks posted:"Video game" is just simply not a useful term, and never has been. From as long as we could represent things more complex than dots zipping around a CRT, there have been efforts which stretch the definition of "game". Text adventures, for example, are more similar to novels than they are to Pac-Man. Is Sim City a game? Will Wright doesn't think so; he describes all of his own games as "software toys". So the question should not be "what is a video game", it should be "why the gently caress do we insist on still calling these things video games?" Force of habit I guess, and it just easier to say then "interactive entertainment". There need to be a better word. Cyron fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 05:57
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Moartoast posted:Critique has inherent bias, ego exists and fuels most if not all creative work in some way, people interpret things differently and usually not in the precise ways the creator(s) of a work intended, editing happens, some people make really goofy logical leaps to fit preconceptions that have no intrinsic or extrinsic evidence to support them, sometimes a work reflects its author(s) but typically creative work is too complex to truly reflect its author(s) in whole, critics are big jerks that just want to steal my cred and deface my work, and if you disagree you're just posturing for validation and attention but so am i so stalemate!!! Yeah. Beginner's Guide fell really, really flat for me after hearing a bunch of critics say "OH MY GOD THIS SHOOK ME TO MY CORE" and then playing the thing and having the big dark reveal basically be "Some people...bring their own experiences and expectations to the table when they interact with art HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT. I honestly don't know why so many otherwise sharp folks seem to have been so shocked by what strikes me as being some depressed and vaguely nihilistic musings on Literary Discussion 101. Even some stuff about not knowing a creator from their work doesn't ring entirely true to me. Sure, you shouldn't do like the main character does and act like playing a bunch of games made by the same dude means you know everything about that person, but it seems silly for Campster to play that stuff next to his old statements of DOOM feeling like a personal statement by it's makers as though they're really equivalent. If your art says anything, it's probably expressing an idea that exists somewhere inside you, and if you put your work out there then you put your idea out there too. So, yeah, I think it's fair to say that if you consume a lot of a person's work, you've got at least some insight into what they might value and how they see things. Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 05:59
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Maybe call them interactive media instead? I dunno. I agree that the "video game" term is a terrible name for the medium. Something like Spec Ops The Line can hardly be called a "game" because it is actively trying to make you not have a fun time.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:32
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Who cares about the fact that "video game" has the word "game" in it. "Movie" doesn't make any sense as a term either from that perspective now that there's plenty of media that involve moving images. A "film" almost never involves the material anymore unless you're Tarantino. "Comics" aren't required to be funny. "Books" don't have to be written on beechwood. Some kind of experimental camera work using an infrared or UV camera could still be called a "photograph". Conflating etymology with meaning is dumb. Idran fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 06:53
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DStecks posted:"Video game" is just simply not a useful term, and never has been. From as long as we could represent things more complex than dots zipping around a CRT, there have been efforts which stretch the definition of "game". Text adventures, for example, are more similar to novels than they are to Pac-Man. Is Sim City a game? Will Wright doesn't think so; he describes all of his own games as "software toys". So the question should not be "what is a video game", it should be "why the gently caress do we insist on still calling these things video games?"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujTufg1GvR4 Also, text adventures are sometime referred to as 'interactive fiction'. DStecks posted:Fake Edit: also there's a surprise new Tropes Vs. Womenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujTufg1GvR4 Spiritus Nox posted:Even some stuff about not knowing a creator from their work doesn't ring entirely true to me. Sure, you shouldn't do like the main character does and act like playing a bunch of games made by the same dude means you know everything about that person, but it seems silly for Campster to play that stuff next to his old statements of DOOM feeling like a personal statement by it's makers as though they're really equivalent. If your art says anything, it's probably expressing an idea that exists somewhere inside you, and if you put your work out there then you put your idea out there too. So, yeah, I think it's fair to say that if you consume a lot of a person's work, you've got at least some insight into what they might value and how they see things.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:54
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Anyone who's ever played Earth Defense Force 2017 knows that the best video game butt goes to the lead character.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:57
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I forget which game it was, but I once saw a video of an FPS mission where, thanks to the way it was scripted, the player didn't have to do a thing, except maybe fire a single shot from a turret. There was no risk to the player, nothing to gain from opening fire, and no tension whatsoever. That's what I'd call "not a game." If it doesn't have a goal that depends on some skill or ability to accomplish, I have trouble thinking of it as a "game." Which isn't always a bad thing. There's a solar system app for Oculus Rift that I once tried out at the local library. That definitely wasn't a game: it was a VR tour of the solar system, with factoids about each planet and moon. And I had a lot of fun with it.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:59
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So I got like 4 new Baywatching eps up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9dOx_pQ5J0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1E24IlLHK0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5ysUK63XLE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEdhX9-Z-Dg The last one has aliens in it!
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Jan 20, 2016 07:07
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Augus posted:Maybe call them interactive media instead? I dunno. I agree that the "video game" term is a terrible name for the medium. Something like Spec Ops The Line can hardly be called a "game" because it is actively trying to make you not have a fun time. Spec ops the line is an average third person shooter they tacked Heart of Darkness onto to make it feel deeper than it really is.
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Jan 20, 2016 07:15
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Spiritus Nox posted:Yeah. Beginner's Guide fell really, really flat for me after hearing a bunch of critics say "OH MY GOD THIS SHOOK ME TO MY CORE" and then playing the thing and having the big dark reveal basically be "Some people...bring their own experiences and expectations to the table when they interact with art HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT. I honestly don't know why so many otherwise sharp folks seem to have been so shocked by what strikes me as being some depressed and vaguely nihilistic musings on Literary Discussion 101. Campster takes himself saying "I feel like I in some way know what kind of people the devs of DOOM were at the time", which was a statement that is actually validated both intrinsically by really basic cold-reading of the game/the culture that surrounded it at the time, and extrinsically by an official biographical book with actual verified statements from the devs saying "yeah we liked this kind of metal and these kinds of comics and asked Bobby Prince to just copy our metal albums in MIDI form"... And considers that equal to a fictional strawman critic that's obsessively creeping on some dude/dudette after meeting them one time and constructing a fantasy of their idealized partner? Bestie? Vicarious life surrogate? Off unfinished mods that person made while dicking around in Goldsrc/Source engine. The latter point really driving home how disconnected this whole thing actually is from, y'know, more deliberately-crafted and finished works. poo poo, I honestly find myself rolling my eyes at a lot of Campster's stuff, but his Quake video was one of his better ones that expressed a lot of what I've felt is deeply underappreciated about that game (mainly how effective it is as a mood piece and how it rubs juicy angst-indulging NIN all over you in a wonderfully abstract way), and that's the other one he decides to be all self-conscious about because an artist tangentially called him a jerk for trying to interpret anything that's not completely literal text. Like, again, both the video and the game both do some clever things with structure, but yeah the actual message is like a high school student thinking their making a really witty rebuttal to Lit 101 poo poo that pissed them off when their teacher just didn't ~get~ their last paper because they're just a part of the system. Right down to not actually offering any "solution" or means to a "solution" or basically anything outside empty posturing. As a side note, there's also some big issues I have with trying to completely segregate consumers, creators and critics from one another, because that's kind of incredibly reductive of all of those aspects, and is especially untrue for a medium where the consumer has more input in the eventual outcome of a work than in any other medium, for better and for worse.
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Jan 20, 2016 07:22
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I don't think he was being entirely serious.
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Jan 20, 2016 07:40
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I have been thoroughly japed.
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Jan 20, 2016 08:43
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He was probably playing it up, but he was definitely semi-serious. On the Die-Cast Chris said that the underpinning of the game as it relates to the nature of critique freaks him out.
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Jan 20, 2016 08:47
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Tracula posted:Spec ops the line is an average third person shooter they tacked Heart of Darkness onto to make it feel deeper than it really is. If by "tacked on" you mean "embedded into the very core of the design", sure. This sentiment would hold a lot more water if it were just bog standard with some tacked-on narration and a "twist" ending, but that poo poo permeates the game. It may not be enough to get you, personally, to buy in, but there's a deliberate intent there that goes way beyond "tacked on."
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Jan 20, 2016 09:01
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Cyron posted:It funny how Nintendo may be more in touch with it's costumers and that is saying something. Dunno. Nintendo is getting more and more extreme with their amiibo stuff. I'm just waiting for them to lock vast swathes of games behind those toys. They're already locking a dungeon in a Twilight Princess remake behind one.
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Jan 20, 2016 12:23
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Mokinokaro posted:Dunno. Nintendo is getting more and more extreme with their amiibo stuff. I'm just waiting for them to lock vast swathes of games behind those toys. They're already locking a dungeon in a Twilight Princess remake behind one. They've released some info on that and it's nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be. It's little more than a challenge dungeon made from preset parts. The rewards is a Giant's Wallet with a couple thousand Rupees and a 9999-Rupee Wallet  .There's all of one major Nintendo release with any degree of gated content behind amiibo, and that's Splatoon. Even then it's a Challenge Mode for different weapon types in the single-player campaign (one weapon type per amiibo), a unique set of themed gear (which means nothing except style due to the way Splatoon's clothing works), and a lobby screen minigame. Nothing that actually detracts from the the game's online multiplayer.
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Jan 20, 2016 13:29
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Miss Wallace posted:So I got like 4 new Baywatching eps up: I actually do kinda like your closing theme. Is that Baywatch, too?
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Jan 20, 2016 14:05
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I took The Beginner's Guide as an illustration of a toxic relationship between two people and didn't see it as much more than that. I don't see why you would, because obviously a film critic who gives a weird read of Maps To The Stars is not being a toxic friend that David Cronenberg needs to cut out of his life.
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Jan 20, 2016 14:52
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I don't get why you would think it's specifically about critics, anyway. It's an exploration of the relationships between creator, the creator's works, and the fans. Davey Wreden made a blog post where he talks about his experiences and struggles with depression after the release of the Stanley Parable. Hundreds of people sent him emails raging or gushing about the game, which both helped and harmed his then-current mental state. He specifically talks about how a lot of fans really dumped all their emotional baggage on him, so it's easy to understand where a lot of themes in the Beginners Guide come from. It's more of an autobiographical-fiction piece than anything.
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Jan 20, 2016 15:40
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dijon du jour posted:I don't get why you would think it's specifically about critics, anyway. It's an exploration of the relationships between creator, the creator's works, and the fans. Davey Wreden made a blog post where he talks about his experiences and struggles with depression after the release of the Stanley Parable. Hundreds of people sent him emails raging or gushing about the game, which both helped and harmed his then-current mental state. He specifically talks about how a lot of fans really dumped all their emotional baggage on him, so it's easy to understand where a lot of themes in the Beginners Guide come from. It's more of an autobiographical-fiction piece than anything. Yes that also makes sense. Still more personal than a generalized statement about anything. Keromaru5 posted:I forget which game it was, but I once saw a video of an FPS mission where, thanks to the way it was scripted, the player didn't have to do a thing, except maybe fire a single shot from a turret. There was no risk to the player, nothing to gain from opening fire, and no tension whatsoever. That's what I'd call "not a game." If it doesn't have a goal that depends on some skill or ability to accomplish, I have trouble thinking of it as a "game." "Game" is a big cluster of family resemblances, and any attempt to define it in any kind essentialist way is mostly just anti-intellectual gatekeeping.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:08
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DStecks posted:"Video game" is just simply not a useful term, and never has been.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:22
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Uh, why is Nintendo suddenly a boogie man that doesn't know how customers work? Did I miss something?
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Jan 20, 2016 17:23
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DStecks posted:"Video game" is just simply not a useful term, and never has been. Neither are any of the terms we use to define other media, because people don't generally use words based on their potential applicability or ability to stake out defined boundaries, they just use whatever's prevalent because the goal is easy communication. We already had this discussion with comics vs. "graphic novels" and there's a reason the latter is considered  re: Beginner's Guide I didn't care much for the comparisons between Errant Signal's other stuff and the game statements, or the faux breakdown at the end. It felt really forced and wanky, like one of those jokes that aren't actually jokes. As a creator of stuff, it seemed like Davey just wasn't sufficiently prepared for the fact that, once you put a thing out for other people to experience, you have no control over their interpretations- triply so for games, since the player has a whole lot more control over what's going on. re: new Sarkeesian The video was p. well done, but I was annoyed at her insistence at the end that the only solution was basically "no more sexy butts for anyone." Like, I'm not saying sexy butts for all, but I really hate when people whittle these things down to one solution only. More games featuring sexy dude butts would be a great solution in tandem with more games where sexy lady butts aren't a design priority, because variety in any medium is good. I mean, I understand the motivation behind the statement, but it's a crap argument and kind of encapsulates the part of Sarkeesian's attitude I don't like- she always comes across as really lacking in any kind of nuance. Hi I have opinions about video games.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:49
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Puppy Time posted:re: new Sarkeesian More sexualized men does not help this specific situation, because the problem is not "The number of sexualized PCs skews heavily female", it's "The number of female PCs skews heavily sexualized". EDIT: Also I never noticed until this video just how few videogames have male PCs with visible butts. Like, each one on their own you can justify as a cape-like piece of clothing looking cooler, but taken all together it paints a whole new picture. Which is basically a microcosm of Anita's whole critical method, that on their own, few games are really that bad, but taken as a whole the trends are plain as day. DStecks fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 18:12
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Puppy Time posted:re: new Sarkeesian It's better to think of her positions as the starting point in a bargain, rather than her actual wants. I saw an interview with her once where she said she wanted to see a future with no male protagonists in video games. This is obviously insane, and is definitely not what she actually wants, but you start there so that the other side is able to meet you in the middle and still feel like they "won". Her ideal world is probably one with fewer sexy butts in video games, but where what sexy butts there are get split between all genders. Maybe give the option to not have the sexy butt more often too? That'd be nice.
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Jan 20, 2016 18:30
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DStecks posted:More sexualized men does not help this specific situation, because the problem is not "The number of sexualized PCs skews heavily female", it's "The number of female PCs skews heavily sexualized". I think sexualized dudebutts would contribute to part of the solution, in that the situation is a reflection of "women are Objects, men are Subjects" attitude toward sexuality. Allowing for an attitude of "men as sexy, too" breaks down the gender barrier just as much as allowing for "women as something other than sexy." I feel like either one on its own isn't as effective a solution as both in tandem, really: sexy dudebutts takes down the idea that ONLY women are sexy, while nonsexy ladybutts takes down the idea that women are ONLY sexy. It's a win-win, as far as I'm concerned. Though I may be biased. I just like sexy butts.
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Jan 20, 2016 18:33
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senae posted:I saw an interview with her once where she said she wanted to see a future with no male protagonists in video games. Please cite. Puppy Time posted:I think sexualized dudebutts would contribute to part of the solution, in that the situation is a reflection of "women are Objects, men are Subjects" attitude toward sexuality. Allowing for an attitude of "men as sexy, too" breaks down the gender barrier just as much as allowing for "women as something other than sexy." I feel like either one on its own isn't as effective a solution as both in tandem, really: sexy dudebutts takes down the idea that ONLY women are sexy, while nonsexy ladybutts takes down the idea that women are ONLY sexy. OTOH, if we push harder on "more sexy dudebutts" than "less sexy ladybutts", then there's a real risk that the increased number of sexy dudebutts will legitimize having lots of sexy ladybutts and having it be the norm. "It's ok that all the female PCs are sexy, look at all the sexy dudes!" disregarding that a man being sexy does not make us think less of him like it does for women, a known sociological phenomenon. Like I said, the problem is not "The number of sexualized PCs skews heavily female", it's "The number of female PCs skews heavily sexualized". Increasing the number of sexy dudebutts does absolutely nothing to ameliorate the problem of female PCs being disproportionately sexualized, because the problem isn't the ratio of sexy ladybutts to sexy dudebutts, the problem is the ratio of sexy ladybutts to nonsexy ladybutts, to which the number of sexy dudebutts is entirely irrelevant. I personally would very much like to see more sexualized male PCs, like yourself, but it is not in any way a solution to the problem presented in the video we are discussing.
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Jan 20, 2016 18:56
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Tae posted:Uh, why is Nintendo suddenly a boogie man that doesn't know how customers work? Did I miss something? They've been pretty assy to people recording their games lately/for a bit now. Even aside from bigger dudes like Angry Joe getting slapped with takedown stuff for just posting videos of Mario Party, seemingly at random they'll just wipe out a bunch of videos for showing that their games are fun? 
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Jan 20, 2016 19:01
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e X posted:I actually do kinda like your closing theme. Is that Baywatch, too? Yeah, Current of Love was the ending credits for Baywatch for a while. David Hasselhoff sings it!
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Jan 20, 2016 19:02
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I didn't mean Nintendo is in full touch, and I am mainly talking in the category of the core games itself, for example their less BS in splatoon then star wars battlefrount. Nintendo is still lacking in their YouTube relations and the amiibos are a bit dumb. and even that is not on the same level of xbox 1 launch, square cutting games up or konami being konami.
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Jan 20, 2016 19:14
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All I know for sure about VG butts is that Raiden was the curviest man I've ever seen.
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Jan 20, 2016 19:44
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Yardbomb posted:They've been pretty assy to people recording their games lately/for a bit now. What about Sony, who tried to copyright let's play? The Vosgian Beast posted:All I know for sure about VG butts is that Raiden was the curviest man I've ever seen. A lot of love went into Snake's dudebutt in MGS4
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Jan 20, 2016 19:53
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