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 I'm a hobbyist; I have no interest in making money or publishing, so the scope isn't professional grade in terms of tools. I've made several attempts at making comics and even games, but it's so front-loaded when it's entirely original. You spend so much time writing new worlds, characters, conflicts, plots, etc, but you still haven't really walked the walk. My conclusion: you have to do something real at some point, perhaps it's best to grab a "Starter Pack" as I call it. Most game developers start out with mods, ROM hacks, and/or D&D. What good is an original idea when you've never even practiced executing an idea in the first place? So why not train myself with some established material that I like? Take Super Mario RPG and reinterperet the story into a comic making every bit of creative license to prevent from flat out copying without deviating from the core story or increasing scope. Replace characters like Mario with Luigi, add in original characters, or remove them entirely. The whole story is already written, the backgrounds are already drawn, and the plot is laid out. In regards to legal issues I'm making sure this is transformative enough to be within fair use and I always pay my respects to the original creators. I've got some questions.
RasterPunk fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 09:23
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Take the story you've written from your inspiration, reskin everything with your own designs and go from there.
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Jan 21, 2016 09:41
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my comic started as a straight adaptation to an old Western radio program, Gunsmoke. I swapped out all the main characters for new ones, but kept the same sort of feel at first. In doing the first story, though, I developed the characters a lot and now, even though it's still based on the program for the plot beats, it's really turned into my own story. I'm a lot happier with it than I would be if I'd kept it strictly in the original program's setting or characters. Give yourself a lot of space to grow if you decide you like the setting or characters enough, I guess is what I'm saying. I know you're worried from a legal standpoint, but I'm thinking creatively, as someone whose done a fair amount of fan stuff too. Ultimately, you exercise different creative muscles doing fan vs original. When I do fan stuff I'm making sure the character voices or setting stay true to the original, but in my own stuff I'm a little more free to let things fly. Fan stuff can be a good starting point if you wanna jump start your output but it can have limitations. That's my two cents anyhow.
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Jan 21, 2016 11:15
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When "great artists steal," It means taking something somebody else has done and transforming it into your own. You wouldn't have had so much of the artwork in Calvin and Hobbes if Watterson wasn't such a Walt Kelly fanboy. What do you like about it that generates an emotional response? That response is what's key in making your own thing that's inspired without ripping off. Hell, Star Wars is The Seven Samurai. Reiley posted:Take the story you've written from your inspiration, reskin everything with your own designs and go from there. also this
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Jan 21, 2016 15:43
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For inspiration I would look at Cucumber Quest, which does an amazing job of taking the feel and aesthetic of the Paper Mario games and translating it into an original story that stands on its own. If you could pull off anything in that neighborhood with Super Mario RPG as a starting point then nobody would be more excited about it than me. My comic (!!!) is a video game pastiche with a lot of roots in the Mario games. I remember looking at the meteoric rise of stuff like Yale Stewart's JL8 and wondering if I wouldn't have been better off just making all my characters Goombas etc. for the cheap brand recognition. But there is something comforting and liberating about knowing that the thing you're working on is actually yours. e: also Star Wars is Hidden Fortress 
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Jan 21, 2016 15:49
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RasterPunk posted:
You can understand the appeal of creating fan-stuffs in that there's an established community of people who like a certain work, who will share and like and buy stuff based on it. In an age where discoverability is the big challenge, you could spend years and years creating exemplary original art and get no notice whatsoever, whereas someone could do a five minute scribble of an Undertale character and get a hundred shares on tumblr within hours. (Speaking from personal experience on the latter, less so on the former....) It is however lovely in a bunch of ways to be a parasite on another artists' hard work. It sort of seems like the model these days is for artists to view fanworks as an important source of advertising for their efforts. You draw them in with the fan-art, that is visible to anyone tag-searching on twitter or tumblr or off of reddit, and then if they like that they might look elsewhere on your tumblr or DA or whatever and see your original content. I know this model has worked for Cucumber Quest's gidigi in particular.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:28
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Fangz posted:You can understand the appeal of creating fan-stuffs in that there's an established community of people who like a certain work, who will share and like and buy stuff based on it. In an age where discoverability is the big challenge, you could spend years and years creating exemplary original art and get no notice whatsoever, whereas someone could do a five minute scribble of an Undertale character and get a hundred shares on tumblr within hours. (Speaking from personal experience on the latter, less so on the former....) Despite this being an educational project, I'm somewhat guilty. I feel the same way about everyone drawing Undertale fan-art, I had made a vow to myself as an artist to never do fan-art of something recent in order to prevent it from getting overexposure and thus oversaturating itself on the internet. I have a disdain for saturation and the fact that people seem to be pandering more than creating original content. Until I realize there are lots of people creating original content, they just "don't exist." All my friends feel the same way about drawing; we're all trying to do something original, but really what people want is Steven Universe fan-art. As Jack of Green's riddle puts it, "I live for laughter I live for the crowd, Without it I am nothing." Even if we aren't making money, we're still trying to get something out of this be it new friends or attention; it requires a crowd either way. A lot of people in high school became friends because they both liked a certain thing. What you'll find here was me trying to be original: https://empeopled.com/p/75152 I had a solid story with themes like the horrors of trans-humanism, running from poachers, making moral sacrifices for a greater cause, etc. I thought I had something pretty interesting and it wasn't all that hard as a project, I enjoyed making these a lot. But originality is so front loaded; I had to pour days into rewrites to create solid story, characters, and a plot before I could even start drawing. And in the end it was impossible to get anyone to notice it let alone read the dialogue for what little I try to put in (I take show-don't-tell often literally). "Guess it wasn't good enough, perhaps it needs a rewrite? Did it not look good enough? I'm not getting negative criticism, just flat out silence!" How am I supposed to know if my work is good or bad if it doesn't even exist? Even with some attention within the small community of empeopled it was usually "art was kinda cool, didn't read the story, you should make animated comics instead!" After that I'd draw a picture of Mallow and suddenly I was getting showered with attention. I want to continue working on something original, but people on the internet are looking for something else. I thought to myself if I want to earn a reputation, I have to draw within the area of relevance. Make something that I love, that I also know a lot of other people love. That's what the internet cares about, relevance and/or reputation; that's why memes are such a big thing much to my frustrations over meme culture. They won't care what you have to say in a story if you're a nobody and if you are a nobody they only care if what you're saying has anything to do with current trends. It's also why I asked for Jam Session threads, because I figured I could have relevance by having a community of people expecting work from me rather than posting a gallery I have to advertise. Part of me still wants to draw a lot of Super Mario RPG because I want to explore and appreciate more of the game for myself. Let's not waste my ideas when I'm still an amateur, but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't an ulterior motive. SMWRPG could just be for fun, but for getting my name out there I would prefer a Jam Session thread; a community of artists expecting work from each other. Without that, my only feasible means of relevance is to be a little parasitic. But seriously, screw internet memes; I die a little inside every time an artists shoves that into writing. RasterPunk fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 18:58
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Your website opens a new tab for every time I click on a navigation link, it gave me a bitcoin when I went there for the first time, and your comic looks like ballpoint pen on lined paper. Like, yeah, there's less barriers to getting people to read your stuff if it's fanart vs original, but physician, heal thyself.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:45
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kefkafloyd posted:
 Whoever told that lied to you. It isn't. Yeah, Lucas takes a bunch of pseudo-Japanese stuff 'Jedi" = 'Jidaigeki'... but definitely nothing like 7 samurai. There aren't even 7 jedis. star wars sucks. RasterPunk posted:
I did some undertale fanart awhile back, not because undertale was popular, but because I really fell in love with that game, and I wanted to express it. I don't really care about 'the clicks'. That being said, it can get kind of tough when you see the biggest successes are people doing fanart/fancomics. I guess that's simply a matter of people being unable to search for things they don't even know exists.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:47
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Space-Bird posted:
Yeah, my bad, I was completely wrong. Hidden Fortress was what I was thinking of.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:55
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Mercury Hat posted:Your website opens a new tab for every time I click on a navigation link, it gave me a bitcoin when I went there for the first time, and your comic looks like ballpoint pen on lined paper. You can thank empeopled for that, I was just using their websites doodle thread as my "Jam Session" community for what it was worth. Yeah the more I look at this, the more I realize hosting on empeopled may have been a huge part of it of why nobody cared. It wasn't built for comics. Didn't even know it was "giving" me bitcoins. It's completely unreadable. If I were making my own website, I like the idea of scrolling more than pushing to go to each page: http://www.comico.jp/detail.nhn?titleNo=5028&articleNo=12 That way it's pushing to go to the next part; much more mobile friendly. As far as the ballpoint pen on lined paper, it is literally a lead holder and notebook paper; I don't go for coloring with my comics. But I would color my title pages and also using proper paper. I prefer to not use digital too much out of style; I would prefer to rely on technique with linework, volume, and grey-tones. I know its crudeness is a setback, but that's just the style I go for. Which also says something about me with my rant. Glad I came here. Starting to realize once again I'm disillusion and in a way, especially with my own style, I'm asking for too much. RasterPunk fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 19:59
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kefkafloyd posted:When "great artists steal," It means taking something somebody else has done and transforming it into your own. This is the secret behind my comic, The Legend of Dragon Quest Fantasy: Bowser's Inside Story.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:16
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RasterPunk posted:stuff You don't have to make fanart. You just have to make comics that blow people's minds. It's an extremely competitive landscape for attention. The cultural marketplace has become globalized. Back in the 20th century, it was possible for a middling cartoonist to make a pretty nice living by making a Mutt & Jeff knockoff for a town newspaper. In the age of the Internet, that is no longer an option. The options are:
You ask, How am I supposed to know if my work is good or bad if it doesn't even exist? The answer is that you have to learn how to evaluate your own work. You cannot be dependent on others to hold your hand through the process of growing as an artist. It can be helpful to get a good critique. Sometimes someone will point out something you didn't notice or suggest something helpful. But the bulk of the work is going to be done by you getting really brutally honest with yourself about how your work measures up with the stuff you consider to be your "role models." neonnoodle fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 20:17
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neonnoodle posted:There is a whole Internet out there of original webcomics that have rabid fan followings and are completely original. Complaining that you are somehow compelled to make fanart or memes to get noticed is like the comics equivalent of complaining that women only want to date macho assholes. Holy crap this was a wakeup call. I AM asking for too much! I almost sound like a spoiled brat at this point! XD I've got no website, my art is crude as hell, I was posting on a forum site, I barely even got into the story before I quit, and I just assume an audience flocks in among hundreds of other comics out there far more worth their time and with better production values. If I wanna be a hobbyist I'm not sure why I expected the same results professionals get. RasterPunk fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 20:21
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Star Wars is the good kind of stealing from Kurosawa. The bad kind would probably be Fistful of Dollars. Where you lift SHOT FOR SHOT, and assume no one will ever find out.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:06
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I'm copyrighting the dutch angle + 4°. Original angle, do not steal.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:25
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NO DICE. Battlefield Earth beat you to it. ALL the dutch angles.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:43
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Scribblehatch posted:Star Wars is the good kind of stealing from Kurosawa. Fistful of Dollars is to Yojimbo as The Magnificent Seven is to Seven Samurai. It's a loving homage, and the relationship between westerns and samurai film is wonderful.
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Jan 21, 2016 22:04
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Ah but one had permission and the other didn't. Kurosawa sent a letter to Sergio Leone: "It's a fine film, but it's my film." Haw.
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Jan 21, 2016 22:56
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Scribblehatch posted:Ah but one had permission and the other didn't. Kurosawa sent a letter to Sergio Leone: "It's a fine film, but it's my film." I wonder though, would we have discovered the film here in the west if it wasn't copied? Not that I'd say it's a good way of it being discovered.
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Jan 21, 2016 23:34
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You can't really call it a rip off because of that fantastic score and Clint Eastwood's performance though.
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Jan 22, 2016 00:42
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The most important thing in terms of adaptation/homage is making sure you understand the intention behind the original and making sure your translation/commentary on the original stands well enough on its own that the uninformed viewer won't notice, and then once they Wise Up it'll enrich their appreciation of your work. FOR EXAMPLE The Simpsons homaged a million movies all the time and still managed to stand on its own, whereas something like dresden codak is content to lift most of its imagery from Metropolis while completely ignoring its themes. SO basically, just make your comic fun and sincere and Full Of The Spirit Of Adventure like the mario rpgs are (were) and you'll be a-ok!!!
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Jan 23, 2016 08:22
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FunkyAl posted:The most important thing in terms of adaptation/homage is making sure you understand the intention behind the original and making sure your translation/commentary on the original stands well enough on its own that the uninformed viewer won't notice, and then once they Wise Up it'll enrich their appreciation of your work. FOR EXAMPLE The Simpsons homaged a million movies all the time and still managed to stand on its own, whereas something like dresden codak is content to lift most of its imagery from Metropolis while completely ignoring its themes. Most of my edits are translating battles into rewritten scenes, removing characters, truncating plot, and switching characters (like Mario for Luigi). It's gonna help me go through the comic making process with an already established cast of characters within a story; the plots all laid out. For instance Croco will get his fight scene, but The Bouncers will feature a sequence of taking shelter in houses and sneaking into their largest building (I switched it to a regular town, Peach and Bowser won't be in this story since I wanna give minor characters like Mallow more spotlight). I don't think I would call this an adaptation, this is really a tutorial. I'm very glad how the previous critiques fixed my perspective on this. Ever since I made that post I realize deep down this is more about a personal dilemma than what has anything to do with this project; a dilemma I've been dealing with for over a decade of busting my rear end over scope creeped projects and returns I wasn't pleased with. All because I don't know how to hobby. I often make people think I want to turn this into some kind of money making thing probably because my approach sounds like I'm trying to be professional. And in a way I am, which isn't good. That means I'm working too hard and taking it too seriously (I mean jeez, I'm a contracted web developer, I got work to do). Keep the scopes small and the presentation fairly crude at least in terms of tools and technology not so much technique. I shouldn't be comparing myself or aspiring to professional level presentation. But the real problem was the fact that as a hobbyist, I forget that I'm not supposed to be expecting such a huge response from my work compared to professional work. Not only that I remembered SomeCallMeJohnny's comments on his channel including Super Gaming Brothers; people asked him "how did you get so popular?", his answer was "Six years, six years of making content". I feel really embarrassed with how entitled I was being about how I felt about the internet, it's almost insulting to professionals; I make it sound like they cheated or won a lottery more than earned something. And besides, why do this just for the attention? Just friggin' make crap no matter how crappy it is. This isn't a job so I shouldn't treat it like one. I'll post my stuff on the internet, forget about it, and maybe someone will come across and it gives them a nice weekend for a while. I always appreciate finding some gems like that, but sucks when a hobbyist flat out quit like I did cause they thought it was crap; it wasn't popular, so it wasn't worth it them. Well I thought they were worth my time, it's not like the world would be better without it. Does popularity really make things worth it? The more I recall I often realize popularity can ruin things for the creator, just look at what happened to Undertale. It's always the project that was worth it. The "pitch" on this thread was kind of dumb in retrospect because why pitch a project like this? It's like pitching a college project or a tutorial for myself. But it was worth doing for a reality check. RasterPunk fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 09:08
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I mean, if you want something to just try out, you can totally do whatever you want. Just don't expect that to be the thing that makes you stand out. Like, when I was starting out my dumb comic (which I may never finish, but who knows!) the first thing I did was make a 5 page fan fic comic. I honed in on some design issues, figured out some interesting angles, and then never touched it again. It helped me greatly. I didn't have to think too much about story and character, only visuals. But it was mearly just a simple stepping stone to something more original and interesting. And honestly no, don't half rear end it. Give it your all if you want to do it. If it seems like a thing that feels rewarding, do it and see what happens. Worst that happens, someone calls you a hack, and you try and take what they said and re-evalulate your work. But you have to really want it. Want it for something greater than attention and fame.
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Jan 23, 2016 09:31
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RasterPunk posted:
Honestly, if you want to be an artist, you have to make art. That's it. Whether it's good art or bad art, you don't get to find that out until you actually make the thing. You call making comics a hobby but by the way you talk about it, Id bet you have a bit more emotional investment in it than that. You don't have to be a professional to have passion and if you have passion you owe it to yourself to follow it. Yes some people will hate your work, but every single thing that exists probably has at least one person who hates it, that's just life. But, If what you do as a comic artist hinges on getting outside validation then you are going to be completely and utterly miserable, EVEN if you do get acclaim. You need to do poo poo cause you want to do it. So just make the drat comic already if that's what you want then move on to the next thing. Life is too short for waffling.
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Jan 23, 2016 10:23
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While we're on the subject -- anyone know if there's like a worldbuilding thread in CC or somewhere? I just have a lot of ideas for a story, concept art for characters, and so on, but I don't know where I could run it past some people to see if it's bullshit or not / holds water.
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Jan 23, 2016 15:17
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Well, if it's for a comic you could just post it in here.
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Jan 23, 2016 17:39
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Here's an important piece of worldbuilding advice: if it's not relevant to your storyline as it is meant to be told, it's not relevant. An alluring pitfall many new writers fall into is one where they get too invested in Worldbuilding and finding out all the intricate little details about their setting, and they put a lot of energy into drawing that worldbuilding and maybe 5% of it is useful to the reader. I've seen a comic which has to wit never actually launched and subsists entirely on worldbuilding vignettes, its wild. Make sure you handle that part of your story carefully, and make sure to be bold enough and honest enough to recognize what belongs on the cutting room floor. It can be quicksand otherwise.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:23
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Is it tanglefoot? Cause I love that poo poo and I don't think I will ever care if it launches.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:32
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I ain't saying no names here................................ but god drat if that isn't one for the textbooks.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:49
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Also keep in mind a creative project is a bit of a living thing, stuff will change between the beginning and the later stages as a nature of the beast. This is why novels go through drafts before the final product and there's always things you'll want to change even after it's done. You'll probably never be 100% satisfied and that's okay. Not over-stressing details lets you build in an escape hatch if you decide on a different plot point, as well. Worldbuilding is fun and it's like you're in a warm bed on a cold day and thinking about all the chores you have to do that day, but at some point you gotta get out of bed. Like, I'm doing an alt history. I didn't sit down and figure out a detailed timeline from 1492 onward and invent fake land treaties and political movements. The important part I want to get across is "the American west, but different" and I think readers get that much. Same goes for character backstory, it helps to keep in mind to write the characters, but I don't need to devote pages to the main character's life from childhood on if it doesn't impact the current story. Just make a mental map of important bits that matter to the story you're trying to tell to make sure you don't do any major contradictions is my advice. Anyway post your worldbuilding stuff here, is what I'm saying.
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Jan 23, 2016 22:12
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Reiley posted:Here's an important piece of worldbuilding advice: if it's not relevant to your storyline as it is meant to be told, it's not relevant. An alluring pitfall many new writers fall into is one where they get too invested in Worldbuilding and finding out all the intricate little details about their setting, and they put a lot of energy into drawing that worldbuilding and maybe 5% of it is useful to the reader. I've seen a comic which has to wit never actually launched and subsists entirely on worldbuilding vignettes, its wild. Well, mostly my approach to it is that I get a random idea for a story and make up world to go with it, which serves as the basis for more ideas for stories. It's sort of a story-generating engine. I then note down the storylines I want to tell. The thing is just that I don't want to go off with my gun half-cocked, so to speak. It's a daily life sort of story, episodic, and for that it's quite important to nail down a lot of details about how people live, their attitudes, the way society and their environment shapes and molds their basic interactions; down to the physical objects they use for their convenience. So that's currently what I'm working on -- nailing down all the details to convincingly tell a slice-of-life story set in a different world. I just want to make sure that it doesn't seem like bullshit!
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Jan 23, 2016 22:22
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My rule has always been "the best idea is the one you haven't had yet". In the act of telling the story you came up with you'll think of better paths for it to take which you likely wouldn't have thought of had you stayed in the planning stage. It's an organic process and the act of making your comic will inspire you to come up with even better ways to keep telling it. That's a big reason to be wary of too much worldbuilding, you're technically never fully planned for the ideas you're yet to have.
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Jan 23, 2016 22:35
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Reiley posted:I ain't saying no names here................................ but god drat if that isn't one for the textbooks. It's the nazi centaurs thing from DeviantArt isn't it
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Jan 23, 2016 22:48
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As I've adapted to making ~animated short films~ I've started to fall in love with the short subject as a means of expression, so I pose the question: why not, instead of a Worldbuilding Tolkeinesque Epic, make a bunch of short comics that explore any number of ideas in HALF the time??? BTW this ain't really posed at anybody, it's more of a rhetorical thing that maybe you could consider!!!! I know I'm hungry to read more short, self-contained poo poo.
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Jan 23, 2016 23:26
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FunkyAl posted:As I've adapted to making ~animated short films~ I've started to fall in love with the short subject as a means of expression, so I pose the question: why not, instead of a Worldbuilding Tolkeinesque Epic, make a bunch of short comics that explore any number of ideas in HALF the time??? I've been working on a videogame for the past year or so and part of our design doc is a sort of randomly-seeded objective (a connected intro/endscreen that gives a stage a feeling of purpose) and I'm actually playing with the idea of using that as a way to explore side-stories and expand on the little threads of the setting that a main comic storyline wouldn't ever get to. It's been a lot of fun and I think it'd be a cool medium to try it with.
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Jan 23, 2016 23:35
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FunkyAl posted:As I've adapted to making ~animated short films~ I've started to fall in love with the short subject as a means of expression, so I pose the question: why not, instead of a Worldbuilding Tolkeinesque Epic, make a bunch of short comics that explore any number of ideas in HALF the time??? Yeah, I agree. I've been sitting some comic short stories for awhile, 2016 is the year I need to execute on them, before the ideas get to stale. Making a giant serialized epic is just a lot easier..... .... (for me).
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Jan 23, 2016 23:36
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Reiley posted:I've been working on a videogame for the past year or so and part of our design doc is a sort of randomly-seeded objective (a connected intro/endscreen that gives a stage a feeling of purpose) and I'm actually playing with the idea of using that as a way to explore side-stories and expand on the little threads of the setting that a main comic storyline wouldn't ever get to. It's been a lot of fun and I think it'd be a cool medium to try it with. That's cool as hell!! How close is that to being done, btw, I've been very impressed with all the stuff I've seen about it THUS FAR.
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Jan 24, 2016 00:09
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People interested in your lore strikes me more as a reward instead of a destination. Like, I love the Cowboy Bebop world. Every time I rewatch it, I try to piece together something different. But all this is only because I care so much about all the connections I made with the "plot" and the characters.
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Jan 24, 2016 00:14
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Reiley posted:My rule has always been "the best idea is the one you haven't had yet". In the act of telling the story you came up with you'll think of better paths for it to take which you likely wouldn't have thought of had you stayed in the planning stage. It's an organic process and the act of making your comic will inspire you to come up with even better ways to keep telling it. That's a big reason to be wary of too much worldbuilding, you're technically never fully planned for the ideas you're yet to have. its infuriating, yet freeing, how true this is. i dont think ive ended a single chapter yet where the plot didnt drastically change along the way
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Jan 24, 2016 00:17
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