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Yaws posted:I want Ray Park back in Star Wars Put him in a Knight of Ren getup, problem solved.
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Jan 22, 2016 05:18
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Just put Darth Maul in star wars again. Robot legs and all.
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Jan 22, 2016 05:21
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If there's anything all the Star Tribes can agree on WRT the prequels, it is that Ray Park is awesome and Darth Maul was cool. The spider robot legs in the comics/cartoons are kind of dumb though
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Jan 22, 2016 05:31
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HookedOnChthonics posted:I'm a little surprised people had as much trouble as they did with the monarchism point—I think it's among the less arcane of SMG's readings, honestly. In a certain sense the rebels/resistance are pretty much just Hobbesian-by-default in the same generalized way that the protagonists of a ton of fantasy and romantic literature are. The feudal, pastoral and personal is good; the industrialized, modern, and systematized is bad. Leia and her circle don't literally want a king (which is maybe what was tripping people up? 'Monarchist' is a kind of glib, reductionist label) but they want the unilateral power to 'make things right' concentrated in the hands of a specific person/persons based on that/those individual's intrinsic capability to rule. Sure in the literalist sense you can argue that being force sensitive is a more legitimate/'objective' quality than divine investiture, but at the base level it sure as poo poo is not any representative government the film is asking us to root for. Perhaps germane to this discussion--from the official script for Return of the Jedi: quote:BEN (attempting to give solace with his words) Princess Leia and Queen Amidala aren't really monarchists. Leia is a fairy tale princess and Amidala is a fairy tale queen. The iconography at play isn't about a specific kind of political system. It's about just and noble leadership, in the abstract. Leia and Padme are both committed democrats. The Emperor is an autocrat. Nowhere in the films is it ever suggested that the Rebels in general, or Leia in particular, believe that power should be concentrated in the hands of any sort of elite. The Jedi aren't supposed to rule. When they plot to take over the Senate for its own good in Episode III, the Force strikes them down for it. Neurolimal posted:If there's anything all the Star Tribes can agree on WRT the prequels, it is that Ray Park is awesome and Darth Maul was cool. I think you'd be mistaken there, at least as regards the "Darth Maul was cool" part.
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Jan 22, 2016 05:44
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Neurolimal posted:If there's anything all the Star Tribes can agree on WRT the prequels, it is that Ray Park is awesome and Darth Maul was cool. It's a pity the lazer sword duels after TPM were so unsatisfying by comparison.
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Jan 22, 2016 05:46
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Darth Maul was one of the best parts and should have never died in the movies - should have been the main bad guy. I just love the delivery here by Serafinowicz. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHit_vQ1f7Q
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Jan 22, 2016 06:04
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Vintersorg posted:Darth Maul was one of the best parts and should have never died in the movies - should have been the main bad guy. I woulda kept his lazer sword being cut in half, then had him using 2 long handled swords in the next one, and then those are also cut in half and so is he and in the 3rd one he is general grevious 
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Jan 22, 2016 06:06
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Vintersorg posted:Darth Maul was one of the best parts and should have never died in the movies - should have been the main bad guy loving Count Dooku. Even his name sucks.
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Jan 22, 2016 06:09
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On Naboo, at least, it means the kind of humans who inhabit the planet are the ones who agree on romanticizing aristocracy. They pick a girl, make her dress like that, and call her the most important person in the world. They choose to structure their society after a fairy tale. The pastoral googie decor underscores the nostalgic naivete of the setting and of the film. Leia's title, on the other hand, is legitimately hereditary. People consider her important because of her lineage, and they are all the time using that title instead of one that she has earned in order to downplay her really rather remarkable achievements, even when they mean well like Lor San Tekka. Her royal status is irrelevant - not only does is she soon without anything to be princess of, pretty much all she ever does is get her hands dirty as an officer among soldiers - but that's what people call her.
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Jan 22, 2016 06:12
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I think Maul is definitely the coolest of the prequel villains, but I'm a big fan of how the prequel line of the Jedi just butchering everything they go up against yet never really grasping the real issue. They're basically pointed at a problem, murder the problem, and don't see how they're just lethal tools until it is way, way too late.
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Jan 22, 2016 06:14
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I really don't get why people are so fixated on Darth Maul, or why they think the story would be better if he stuck around. He has a cool look and gets an awesome fight, sure, but his function in the story is to be the promising young Sith apprentice who dies, prompting Sidious to try to get a newer and better one. Dooku's the lovely stopgap apprentice whom Sidious plays while he's grooming the next rising star. If Maul is Sidious's hyper-competent sidekick throughout the prequels, then why would Palpatine bother with befriending Anakin?
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Jan 22, 2016 06:14
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Maul died and then Palpatine becomes chummy with Anakin.Zoran posted:No, I'm asking for the logic if Maul doesn't die. Ah, gotcha. Yaws fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 06:18
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Yaws posted:Maul died and then Palpatine becomes chummy with Anakin. No, I'm asking for the logic if Maul doesn't die.
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Jan 22, 2016 06:20
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Ian McDiarmid kind of played Palpatine as a pederast. Maul would still age, or he'd run afoul of some Jedi or other, I think. He just dies at a time where his death can serve the double purpose of galvanizing Obi-Wan's hatred.
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Jan 22, 2016 06:23
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Zoran posted:No, I'm asking for the logic if Maul doesn't die. It'd be a total re-write at that point, wouldn't it? That's sort of like asking what the plot of Episode V would have been if Boba Fett didn't track the Falcon.
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Jan 22, 2016 06:24
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Barudak posted:It'd be a total re-write at that point, wouldn't it? That's sort of like asking what the plot of Episode V would have been if Boba Fett didn't track the Falcon. Yes, it would be a total rewrite. I'm questioning the people who are asking for that. Can you write a story where Maul survives (in the sense of still being Sidious's apprentice; I know he lives in TCW) that accomplishes the actual goal of the prequels? They're meant to show us how the Emperor turned Anakin Skywalker into an agent of evil. Darth Maul's death works for the story because it gives Palpatine the impetus to train a new apprentice. So what I'm getting at is this: if Darth Maul lives and remains a cool, awesome, intimidating bad guy through all three prequel films, why would Palpatine spend so much energy grooming some other kid?
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Jan 22, 2016 06:34
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The title of the movie is The Phantom Menace. Maul was always meant to purely be just a distraction.
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Jan 22, 2016 06:42
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Zoran posted:Yes, it would be a total rewrite. I'm questioning the people who are asking for that. Someone on YouTube already did this. He basically does a complete overhaul of the prequels that features Darth Maul as a primary antagonist to Obi-Wan throughout the films. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgICnbC2-_Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAbug3AhYmw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wKqH6vlGHU
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Jan 22, 2016 06:43
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teagone posted:Someone on YouTube already did this. He basically does a complete overhaul of the prequels that features Darth Maul as a primary antagonist to Obi-Wan throughout the films. Yes, and this guy's answer to my question is that Sidious starts working Anakin in the middle of Episode III, after Maul has been defeated. It's a really odd choice to compress all of Palpatine's relationship to Anakin into the second act of the third movie. Though I happen to think that the Belated Media rewrites in general are stupid as all hell.
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Jan 22, 2016 07:07
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should have had aniken figure everything out and come to ol' sheeve begging for power instead of being "seduced to the dark side"
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Jan 22, 2016 07:18
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Parachute posted:Counterpoint: Luke had a robot hand and wore all black in ROTJ but was still not bad. i mean other than the bad poo poo he did. it's ok to be tempted by the dark side, it's human to feel angry or to hate the solution is to not give in to those emotions, let go and put down the light saber. that is the failure of the prequel Jedi they teach you not to have attachments instead of teaching you to let go when you need to.
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Jan 22, 2016 07:20
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If you wanted Maul to have a bigger role, it wouldn't be hard to write an escape in TPM, condense the romance and "jedi/protagonists stand, walk, or sit while expositing" scenes in AOTC, then integrate scenes where Sidious expresses an interest in Anakin's skills and immature nature, prompting Maul to try to eliminate Anakin before it's necessary at the arena, resulting in his death to a rookie jedi due to his blind rage and jealousy at losing his father figure (i'm sure you could write a decent ironic comparison between him and Anakin losing his mother, foreshadowing Anakin undergoing the same arc in the OT). If you REALLY wanted to go wild with Maulmania, he could be the one Anakin and Obi fight in the opening instead of Dooku, and Palpatine's order to kill him [maul] is his final decision to dispose of Maul and recruit Anakin. Rest of the movie progresses as usual.
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Jan 22, 2016 07:22
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Yeah, but then we have Christopher Lee out of a job. Also the fake victory parade Sheev throws himself at the end of TPM is a lot less effective (for Obi-Wan and Anakin) if some evil dude just whacked a Jedi master and peaced out. Also the whole 'phantom menace' thing.
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Jan 22, 2016 07:46
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Make Anakin already a Jedi in training at the start of the first movie, start the clone wars at the end of the first movie or have them already started in the crawl. Include in the second/third movies live action versions of the Clone Wars TV show arcs where 1) a Jedi gets framed for a murder that a different Jedi committed and 2) a clone trooper and a medical droid discover Order 66 and that Palpatine is Darth Sidious lmao. Darth Maul can stay too if he actually speaks more than one line and continues to be completely unsubtle in appearance. Dooku can be in but he shouldn't fight anybody and should actually have some sort of character besides space Dracula.
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Jan 22, 2016 07:47
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Neurolimal posted:If you wanted Maul to have a bigger role, it wouldn't be hard to write an escape in TPM, condense the romance and "jedi/protagonists stand, walk, or sit while expositing" scenes in AOTC, then integrate scenes where Sidious expresses an interest in Anakin's skills and immature nature, prompting Maul to try to eliminate Anakin before it's necessary at the arena, resulting in his death to a rookie jedi due to his blind rage and jealousy at losing his father figure (i'm sure you could write a decent ironic comparison between him and Anakin losing his mother, foreshadowing Anakin undergoing the same arc in the OT). I like this.
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Jan 22, 2016 07:51
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On an unrelated note, here's some awesome fight staging that tells a story. (My apologies for the lovely screenshots; I don't have a perfect way to capture these at the moment.) Anakin and Obi-Wan are dueling atop a vast structure that collapses. The ground they stand on has betrayed them, and now they've been cast into a fiery pit. They are both careening toward the edge of a cliff.  Obi-Wan is the first to recognize that he's about to fall.  He turns his back on the fight, swings away from the edge, and finds safety.  Anakin is still on the wrong path. The structure around him will go over the edge, dooming him forever.  At the last moment, Anakin swings back and finds his footing again.  Just before the end, he makes a leap of faith…   …and saves himself.
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Jan 22, 2016 08:06
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Why is SuperMechagodzila always quoting some rando from the EU?
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Jan 22, 2016 08:23
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Zoran posted:Yes, it would be a total rewrite. I'm questioning the people who are asking for that. Because the kid is super talented in the force? You just write Maul as slowly noticing that he's not the special kid in class and using that jealousy and rage to fuel his dark side powers. Kinda like a proto-Kylo Ren. Maybe you have Anakin murder him as his first signs of a turn to the dark side.
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Jan 22, 2016 08:45
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rear end Catchcum posted:Why is SuperMechagodzila always quoting some rando from the EU? Pretty good.
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Jan 22, 2016 09:08
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Didn't the clone wars kinda had an episode about the whole balance to the force thing, with those weird living embodiment of the force beings? I don't remember much of it.
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Jan 22, 2016 09:17
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rear end Catchcum posted:Why is SuperMechagodzila always quoting some rando from the EU? Nice.
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Jan 22, 2016 10:59
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rear end Catchcum posted:Why is SuperMechagodzila always quoting some rando from the EU? What are you talking about, he appeared at the end of the Force Awakens.
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Jan 22, 2016 14:11
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Very funny, but on a serious note, Lacan is an obscurantist psychologist, discredited throughly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Lacan#Criticism) and Hegel has similarly fallen into disrepute, a philosopher whose ideas are not really considered all that lasting and who was similarly obscurantist. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Wilhelm_Friedrich_Hegel#Criticism) The benefit of these sources to sophists like SMG is that they provide very dense, difficult to read sentences that can be used to support just about any idea if you have some skill in rhetorical judo. Quote: Karl Popper wrote that "there is so much philosophical writing (especially in the Hegelian school) which may justly be criticized as meaningless verbiage."
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Jan 22, 2016 15:21
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Zoran posted:Yes, it would be a total rewrite. I'm questioning the people who are asking for that. Start out with 3 Jedi, Maul kills one at the end of TPM but gets away. Have him be the big bad of Episode 2 who Anakin personally gets into a fight with and totally kicks the rear end of. He gives in to his hate. The third film then deals with that and follows the Emperor's task of seducing Anakin from the start of 3 to the end. Lead him into traps that test his dark side compatibility - a reverse Yoda? You get your three big laser sword fights, Maul does more, and Anakin's presence comes off as more of a convenience for Palpatine rather than forcing him into some dumb Messiah role.
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Jan 22, 2016 15:25
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CountFosco posted:Very funny, but on a serious note, Lacan is an obscurantist psychologist, discredited throughly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Lacan#Criticism) and Hegel has similarly fallen into disrepute, a philosopher whose ideas are not really considered all that lasting and who was similarly obscurantist. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Wilhelm_Friedrich_Hegel#Criticism) Oh good to know. Don't have to pay attention to those major fields of philosophy anymore. They've been debunked on Wikipedia.
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Jan 22, 2016 15:36
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Zoran posted:I really don't get why people are so fixated on Darth Maul, or why they think the story would be better if he stuck around. He has a cool look and gets an awesome fight, sure, but his function in the story is to be the promising young Sith apprentice who dies, prompting Sidious to try to get a newer and better one. Dooku's the lovely stopgap apprentice whom Sidious plays while he's grooming the next rising star. "You're it until you die or I find someone better!" - Sheev "Ironside" Palpatine quote:Why is SuperMechagodzila always quoting some rando from the EU? 
RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 15:39
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Oh no! Wikipedia mentions that people criticised Lacan! He's been completely debunked!
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Jan 22, 2016 15:44
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Are y'all really denying that much of philosophy and "critical theory" schools are full of vaporous jargon?
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Jan 22, 2016 15:51
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anything that you can call of a "school" is filled with "vaporous" jargon to be fair
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Jan 22, 2016 15:54
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PBS Newshour posted:anything that you can call of a "school" is filled with "vaporous" jargon to be fair That's my point.
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Jan 22, 2016 15:57
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