Fangz posted:

It's not a happy story, unfortunately. The red army became an all male force and all the women involved were demobilised. They were forbidden from participating in the victory parade through Moscow. Many of the biggest heroes (those that survived the war anyway) ended up essentially forgotten, working menial jobs, and disregarded in history until much later.

Xerxes17 posted:

From reading a book, of which the name eludes me for the moment, things actually got worse for soviet women. They curtailed abortion access and forced many from the workforce because hey, you need to be raising the next generation of to replace all the lost ones from the war.

cheerfullydrab posted:

People can do war crimes and bad stuff without being literal Nazis.

cheerfullydrab posted:

People can do war crimes and bad stuff without being literal Nazis.

ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

For all intents and purposes the Germans in WW2 either were literal Nazis or working on behalf of the literal Nazis.

This isn't even being pedantic, it's just being contrarian.

ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

Thanks for this, fishmech.

cheerfullydrab posted:

JcDent posted:

Italians are only ever called fascists because unlike literal Nazis they hosed about and didn't do anything of substance, besides indirectly helping the Allied war effort.

By the way, was there anything in it for Germany in going to bail Italians in Africa

JcDent posted:

Italians are only ever called fascists because unlike literal Nazis they hosed about and didn't do anything of substance, besides indirectly helping the Allied war effort.

By the way, was there anything in it for Germany in going to bail Italians in Africa

Ensign Expendable posted:

This is not the proper green for German uniforms in July of 1942.

feedmegin posted:

Well, technically it is. A Nazi is a National Socialist is a Party member or at least someone who believes in their ideology. Obviously the 'clean Wehrmacht' thing is bullshit but on the other hand there were plenty of members of the Wehrmacht who were not, in fact, Nazis. It's not like it was a volunteer force in World War 2.

ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

For all intents and purposes the Germans in WW2 either were literal Nazis or working on behalf of the literal Nazis.

This isn't even being pedantic, it's just being contrarian.

Ensign Expendable posted:

This is not the proper green for German uniforms in July of 1942.

Hogge Wild posted:

I agree with feedmegin. Common people shouldn't be blamed for all the poo poo that their government does.

bewbies posted:

If I can't make clumsy broad angry characterizations about complex and nuanced historical issues then why the gently caress am I even posting on the internet

cheerfullydrab posted:

Nope, nope, you're getting too close to Clean Wehrmacht here. I don't support that, but I still reject a characterization of the Wehrmacht as a Nazi army. They had to swear an oath to the Fuhrer, not the party. The salute wasn't required till after the 7/20 plot. Party members never made up a majority of its personnel.

Ensign Expendable posted:

This is not the proper green for German uniforms in July of 1942.

MikeCrotch posted:

gently caress YOU THE PANTHER WAS THE GREATEST TANK EVER BUILT

Flipswitch posted:

I understand there was a fair few women combatants on the Eastern Front for the Soviets, snipers, partisans and even tank crews in some cases (?). Did this have any knock on effect after the war with women serving during the Cold War?

Granted the level of dire struggle faced by the Soviets dimished after WW2 but what happened to them after? We're they just handed various awards and patted on the head and told to go home or what?

Xerxes17 posted:

Pfft, that's a strange way to spell the PzKW VI-B Tiger Asdf-F

Ensign Expendable posted:

Uh excuse me the Maus was the best tank ever and would win the war if they could build more than one.

Comrade Koba posted:

Yeah, if they were lucky.

A lot of them ended up alone and unmarried, partly because there was a distinct lack of eligible bachelors (due to the war) but also in part because they often were regarded with severe suspicion and animosity (in particular by other Soviet women).

Last year's winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature has written a really great book on the subject, The Unwomanly Face of War. It's based on letters, diaries and interviews with surviving women. I can recommend it thoroughly, though the English edition seems to be sadly out of print.

cheerfullydrab posted:

Nope, nope, you're getting too close to Clean Wehrmacht here. I don't support that, but I still reject a characterization of the Wehrmacht as a Nazi army. They had to swear an oath to the Fuhrer, not the party. The salute wasn't required till after the 7/20 plot. Party members never made up a majority of its personnel.

feedmegin posted:

Nicely done.

Edit: Britain at the time was certainly worried about the Germans taking out Egypt - presumably because of a) the implications for its colonies in Africa and yes b) getting warships through Suez. Hmm. How big was Middle Eastern oil production at that time?

sullat posted:

Anglo-Iranian oil fields were a pretty big deal, as I understand it. To protect the oilfields was one of the reasons (the other being Lend-Lease pipeline to USSR that the British overthrew the shah for even talking to Germans in 1942.

Nenonen posted:

Wait, have I been wrong all this years calling WW2 GI's as Democrats and Tommies as Tories?

Hogge Wild posted:

How did they overthrow the Shah? I've read about it happening, but not how they did it.

Xerxes17 posted:

E-Hundo was better cos it had a bigger gun tho????

Ensign Expendable posted:

It actually didn't except for in World of Tanks.

sullat posted:

Soviets invaded from the north, UK from the south, somehow much of the Iranian army was convinced not to fight,, and so the Shah abdicated in favor of his son, who knew his place. Until he was overthrown in 79.

SeanBeansShako posted:

Incredibly weirdly wrong with the latter, outside some minority of some men and officers a majority of British service men leaned more to the left side of things. As Churchill found out, in the 1945 election.

Flipswitch posted:

Well that is rather lovely. I was reading a web article last night on female Soviet pilots and that's rather poo poo to hear afterwards!

Is there any particular driving reason the Soviet Union decided to bury them from history? If anything to me it would have been a bigger cause for celebration as a nation rising up together.


But then again Soviets be Soviets

Raenir Salazar posted:

On the other hand didn't the Supreme Soviet have a great deal of female representation for a long while? I remember on the Daily Show in modern Russia there's none with a Putin apparatchik celebrating the lack of women in comparison to Soviet times.

Raenir Salazar posted:

On the other hand didn't the Supreme Soviet have a great deal of female representation for a long while? I remember on the Daily Show in modern Russia there's none with a Putin apparatchik celebrating the lack of women in comparison to Soviet times.

cheerfullydrab posted:

Don't forget the part where the Iranians appealed to Roosevelt for help based on the principles espoused in the recent Atlantic Charter and his response was "hahahahahahahahahahahaha". The whole thing was disgusting. WWII tip: want to invade a neutral nation so you can loot its resources? Just be part of the Allies!

lenoon posted:

Yeah that's bullshit. The effort the army went into giving it's men "why we fight" lectures throughout paid out in making the British army mid45-46 as politicised as it had been since.... christ... the Levellers?