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So your counter argument is that the PT can not be read?
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Jan 22, 2016 18:18
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Guy A. Person posted:Come on. The dude who brought it up was accusing SMg of using these sources as a form of "rhetorical judo" to confound people who argued against his theories. This wasn't a situation where someone brought up an argument in good faith and other people poo poo on it to be obnoxious, the guy was specifically bringing up the subject to discredit SMg. I'm inclined to agree that SMG has little care for converting others, and does prefer to go for abstract and dense readings which result in posts most people tend to skim past. At least, that is my experience. To head off a few responses: I would say that offers to better explain his readings are disingenuous, offered to make the accuser declare themself a dullard. It also does not approach the core complaint; that it's not that the dense and obtuse verbiage is confusing, but that it causes people to not engage with the reading who might otherwise try. Again, just my experience; I don't speak for the accuser or anyone else, but I know that I tend to skip SMG posts and Bomberguy repetitions because I derive little enjoyment from such strained (not bad, or that they are wrong for being so) and unnecessarily long readings, especially since I've rarely seen them reply to an effort post engaging with the counter-reading or critique (let alone one in good faith). For a comparison: Effectronica and Cnut's readings are more fun to engage due to being blunt, accessible, and active in engaging with even minor critiques and readings. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 18:19
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https://fat.gfycat.com/UnlinedHighAnt.webm gif ver
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Jan 22, 2016 18:22
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Another .GIF, but I got the "Employeeeeeeees!" bit.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:24
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40MB tho...
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Jan 22, 2016 18:27
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Neurolimal posted:I'm inclined to agree that SMG has little care for converting others, and does prefer to go for abstract and dense readings which result in posts most people tend to skim past. At least, that is my experience. Sure, but I was responding specifically to calling a few people "insanely petty" for mocking the original post, and phrasing it as if they were attacking the "philosophy is full of jargon" argument and not the "SMg is full of poo poo because of these wikipedia articles" part of the argument. Like I agree with everything you wrote here, but it's also bullshit to claim that SMg is just blowing wind, without even challenging what he is actually saying. He's just saying "welp these two philosophers you quoted have no merit so therefore you don't". It's even sneakier rhetorical bullshit than what he is accusing SMg of. Guy A. Person fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 18:30
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Perfect, thank you so much. 
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Jan 22, 2016 18:35
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Guy A. Person posted:Sure, but I was responding specifically to calling a few people "insanely petty" for mocking the original post, and phrasing it as if they were attacking the "philosophy is full of jargon" argument and not the "SMg is full of poo poo because of these wikipedia articles" part of the argument. That's fair. I'l admit that it was pretty early (for me) so I was skimming enough to take his post as its own thing outside of criticizing SMG's readings on their validity.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:36
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turtlecrunch posted:40MB tho... I am not good at animated .GIFs.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:42
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turtlecrunch posted:Yes, Anakin gets a choice to cut all ties and live in a vortex forever managing a couple Force fairies (a Dark Side and a Light Side fairy), or to go on living out his life the normal way. At one point the Dark Side fairy shows him that he will become Darth Vader. Anakin ends up "balancing" the Force inside the vortex by killing all the fairies. It was a really bad episode
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Jan 22, 2016 18:44
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Guy A. Person posted:Sure, but I was responding specifically to calling a few people "insanely petty" for mocking the original post, and phrasing it as if they were attacking the "philosophy is full of jargon" argument and not the "SMg is full of poo poo because of these wikipedia articles" part of the argument. In the history of this thread, smg has been seriously challenged rather than merely accused of "just blowing wind" and every single time his replies are pure sophistry, deflecting serious counter-argument with straight up obscurantism and so forth. Those two thinkers form the entire basis of SMG's line of reasoning, and to assault them is an important piece of understanding how SMG's arguments are castles made of sand.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:55
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CountFosco posted:I think you're giving the pro-prequel side of the discussion way, way, way too much credit. Not at all. Compare Cnut the Great, who deservedly has built a posting career on positively and enthusiastically talking about images from Star Wars and comparing them to other films within and without the series, and the short-lived reign of prequel-hating antipope Tezzor, whose wall'o'text shitposts included such insights as "Padme is an assassination target, why come she is sitting next to a window?!" and a frankly horrific misunderstanding of the rule of thirds in composition. Somehow these terrible posts still inspired dipshit cheerleading from half the thread. SMG could undoubtedly break his ideas down into more manageable chunks, but somehow I don't think that will stop the likes of Phylodox or jivjov saying "Yeah but the characters were bad!" or "But Tatooine isn't Jakku?" No offence, guys.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:57
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Offence taken?
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Jan 22, 2016 19:00
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Lt. Danger posted:Not at all. Compare Cnut the Great, who deservedly has built a posting career on positively and enthusiastically talking about images from Star Wars and comparing them to other films within and without the series, and the short-lived reign of prequel-hating antipope Tezzor, whose wall'o'text shitposts included such insights as "Padme is an assassination target, why come she is sitting next to a window?!" and a frankly horrific misunderstanding of the rule of thirds in composition. Somehow these terrible posts still inspired dipshit cheerleading from half the thread. Tezzor was hilarious and contributed more to this thread than anyone. I miss him.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:06
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Neurolimal posted:These are insanely petty and emotional responses to suggesting that philosophy might hold no regards to being easily readable. There's a big difference between what they wrote and what you think they wrote. We might disagree on things often but please don't belabor this point by shifting the goalposts.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:07
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So I think Rey is Luke's daughter AND Obi-Wan's Granddaughter. The woman Obi-Wan shacked up with? a Clone of Palpatine's Daughter.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:09
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You could just skip the Zizek quotes, and read the other stuff he writes around them. The text he writes himself is pretty consistently hilarious, and doesn't need Zizek above and below it:SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is precisely how Lucas defines "The Force": it is a piece of poo poo that attaches itself to you, terrifying you, indifferent to your concerns.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:10
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So much tone policing and posting about posting! The worst thread bogeyman SMG is going to do to you is accuse you of not liking, or misunderstanding, Star Wars.  Let go of your hatred and  things you have noticed about Star Wars.Back to Maz: I think my concern with her centricity is how interrelated everybody else is, compared to her. Aside from the "Chewie's girlfriend" joke and that Han knows about her in advance, she exists nearly completely apart from Star Wars movie continuity; the only other notable exception is that she is one of the three collectors of Star Wars movie continuity memorabilia. It's not a problem that she's so disconnected per se, but that she is so pivotal and nowhere near as connected as the other major players in TFA. She is older than Yoda and, by not being part of the Jedi order, beyond him. I think her cantina is thematically closest to the Coruscant bar in Attack of the Clones: going where ordinary people drink seems to be unusual and risky for the marginal protagonists in Star Wars movies. So Takodana is a transition between the two wastelands of Jakku and Starkiller. A non-aligned cantina stands in for the rest of the galaxy being drawn into the conflict. Maz runs the cantina on transitional Takodana, but they really went out of their way to make her deeply connected: she's been doing it in one place for a millennium, it's made of stone, and to drive the point home, the bar's flashing neon sign is a stone monument in her likeness. Takodana is Maz. I appreciate Neurolimal's idea that she is a transitional view of the Force (and that will be neat retroactively for Maz and Takodana if true), but I just don't see it there, at least not in TFA on its own. She is floating there disconnected, actually attempting to latch onto Star Wars as we know it by collecting Luke's lightsaber and feeding it to Rey, right in the middle of the movie. And Rey rejects her -- rejecting, I suppose, Takodana? Doesn't want to pilot with cool guy Han Solo, doesn't want to hang out with the hoi polloi on Takodana, just wants to go back to Jakku? I still don't see why Maz had to be there at all. I can only assume it will be clarified in Star Wars Serial Episode II.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:11
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Phylodox posted:Offence taken? Unfortunate, but how many times have you and others responded to evidenced explanations about acting style or visual design with "Well, I don't like it"?
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Jan 22, 2016 19:13
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Phylodox posted:I am not good at animated .GIFs. You can embed .webm and .mp4s on the forums now. Use http://gfycat.com/ and get the direct .webm link instead of embedding 40MB gifs because LOL. Like so! (clip below is only 540KB) https://zippy.gfycat.com/ForcefulMistyCanadagoose.webm teagone fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 19:16
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Lt. Danger posted:Unfortunate, but how many times have you and others responded to evidenced explanations about acting style or visual design with "Well, I don't like it"? I don't think I've ever responded to anything about visual design. And the acting just keeps coming down to personal preference. I ain't got poo poo to do with any all of this conversation, you just leave me out of it.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:17
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CountFosco posted:In the history of this thread, smg has been seriously challenged rather than merely accused of "just blowing wind" and every single time his replies are pure sophistry, deflecting serious counter-argument with straight up obscurantism and so forth. Those two thinkers form the entire basis of SMG's line of reasoning, and to assault them is an important piece of understanding how SMG's arguments are castles made of sand. Ok neat. But everything you've said so far is literally surface level "Hegel and Lacan are chumps, don't listen to them" and not discussing 1) how and where SMg's line of reasoning derives from these two thinkers and 2) how that specific line of reasoning has been proven false, and by whom. Which is a shame, since you seem really knowledgable, much more so than myself. But so far your most informative and interesting post on the subject was, again, straight up "Lacan was not only wrong but also kind of a manipulative dick, and Hegel was hindered by his deism".
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Jan 22, 2016 19:28
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CountFosco posted:Firstly, Lacan represents a source of ideas and a point of view in the field of psychiatry. He is not "a field." Unless you're trying to work in academia, you don't really need to pay attention to him, no. Probably his most important idea is that of the "mirror-stage" which is essentially a product of his imagination. There's no real evidence to back up this supposedly scientific piece of psychiatry. Freud is both fairly and unfairly dismissed in this modern era, and if anything Lacan is Freud on steroids. I hated him for his horrible writing which seemed to merely be a tool to dress up his ideas in rhetorical clothing of importance. Doing just a touch of research he seems even more horrible than I had imagined: Lacan's contributions to structural theory and film theory shouldn't really be judged based on his clinical work as a psychoanalyst.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:28
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I'll drop it 'cause I feel like I'm picking on you and that's not fair. Please disregard. e: fuckin good job starting a new page, i am dumb
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Jan 22, 2016 19:30
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Hbomberguy posted:They wrote that Lacan had been completely debunked. I responded to what they wrote, with a bit of sarcasm. Moving the goalposts relates to holding a position until it's disproven, then retreating to a more vague and less radical stance. I haven't done this. I don't care if you've chosen SMG to style after but please use correct terms when imitating intellect. To add something that isnt metadiscussion:  Have I mentioned that I love these two characters? I love these two characters.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:32
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You've mentioned it before, but why? The alien in particular is just big, brown and bald, like a ton of other new aliens in the film.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:33
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Neurolimal posted:To add something that isnt metadiscussion: Is there a guy in that walrus man or is he animatronic?
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Jan 22, 2016 19:33
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Neurolimal posted:To add something that isnt metadiscussion: Where is his mouth? Is it above the horns which are on his chin, or at the horns like mandibles, or at they on his upper lip and his mouth is below? Also I'm wondering: it seems like an obvious Jabba callback, with this big lug reclining with a lady draped over him. But then she turns out to be the spy, calling in BB8's location. Is this intentionally misleading, making us believe she is in the submissive role and then showing that she is in (some form of) control?
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Jan 22, 2016 19:43
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Why you gotta assume he's got a mouth? That's racist, mouth-haver! Check your oral privilege!
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Jan 22, 2016 19:46
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Guy A. Person posted:Where is his mouth? Is it above the horns which are on his chin, or at the horns like mandibles, or at they on his upper lip and his mouth is below? If it was, it was kinda poorly made. If that dude ran the establishment ala Jabba's Palace and then we saw she's secretly First Order, that would be a neat reversal of the Leia as slave element in ROTJ.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:49
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He has a mouth. It's right above his little tusks.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:50
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Beeez posted:Is there a guy in that walrus man or is he animatronic? It's probably Nick Frost or some stupid poo poo like that
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Jan 22, 2016 19:51
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The official book says iirc the big guy is a big game hunter. The Forst Order spy I don't remember but I love her outfit.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:53
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Lacan's contributions to structural theory and film theory shouldn't really be judged based on his clinical work as a psychoanalyst. Mulvey's article "Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema" is entirely based on Lacan's flawed mirror theory. Do you fail to see how a flawed psychological theory, when accepted as truth, can lead to a flawed thread of film critical theory? Mulvey had a point in that female objectification was and is a problem, but she fell into the trap that so many theorists fall into: she attempted to construct a universal theory to explain all cinema. She makes assumptions about how people view films that could only make sense if she were a literal telepath. And we are getting way off track. To properly address the pro-prequel side would require me to purchase the movies, spend time and effort getting screencaps, taking notes, delving deep, and I have no desire to delve into such a vapid poo poo-stain of a movie(s).
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Jan 22, 2016 19:54
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So you are posting in the Star Wars movie thread with the intent to not only not talk about Star Wars movies but also not even watch them.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:56
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Beeez posted:Is there a guy in that walrus man or is he animatronic? It's an animatronic.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:59
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turtlecrunch posted:It's an animatronic. That's what I figured.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:00
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Neurolimal posted:Moving the goalposts relates to holding a position until it's disproven, then retreating to a more vague and less radical stance. I haven't done this. I don't care if you've chosen SMG to style after but please use correct terms when imitating intellect. You are person who complained about Suicide Squad being "Hot Topic" or no?
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Jan 22, 2016 20:01
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euphronius posted:So you are posting in the Star Wars movie thread with the intent to not only not talk about Star Wars movies but also not even watch them. Well I mean you can post in a star wars thread about the four star wars movies people generally accept as good and enjoyable surely. I don't think it's a requirement to have to constantly watch and enjoy the three lovely ones to post in this thread that was created because a good new one came out.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:01
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CelticPredator posted:The what now Come on, man, keep up.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:03
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