|
Popular Thug Drink posted:i do understand it, i'm just saying that it's not changing as fast as it changed a hundred years ago. you seem fixated on attacking me as a luddite when you refuse to acknowledge my basic point - as much as technology changes, now, it changed even faster or in other words more rapidly at a previous time. you and i are not arguing the same thing, which is why it's really weird to me that you're trying to tear down an argument i'm not making out of a desire to either be correct or some sincere miscomprehension on your part Considering you are historically illiterate I'm not sure any of the "attacks" on you are unfair.
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 22:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 07:01 |
|
|
http://thebaffler.com/salvos/of-flying-cars-and-the-declining-rate-of-profit
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 22:53
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:i do understand it, i'm just saying that it's not changing as fast as it changed a hundred years ago. you seem fixated on attacking me as a luddite when you refuse to acknowledge my basic point - as much as technology changes, now, it changed even faster or in other words more rapidly at a previous time. you and i are not arguing the same thing, which is why it's really weird to me that you're trying to tear down an argument i'm not making out of a desire to either be correct or some sincere miscomprehension on your part In the post you quoted I specifically was pointing out to you that technology has never progressed more rapidly than it is progressing today. I'm saying that you're wrong and that technology is progressing faster now than it ever has, thanks in large part to the advent of computers.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 22:54
|
|
|
Dirk the Average posted:In the post you quoted I specifically was pointing out to you that technology has never progressed more rapidly than it is progressing today. I'm saying that you're wrong and that technology is progressing faster now than it ever has, thanks in large part to the advent of computers. yeah, and i don't think that advancements in information processing are as indicative of rapid progress as the transportation, materials science, begininng telecoms, early automation, etc. advancements of many decades ago
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 22:56
|
|
|
Actually I think you'll find that it was the advent of the vibrator which spurred the Industrial Age and the rapid innovations seen since.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 22:57
|
|
|
well the crude simple dildo has been a thing since time everlasting, but the electrification of dildos as part of in home technological advancement was far more broad reaching in changing people's lives. and now what? laser cut vinyl whale phalluses and teledildonics? i'm not impressed
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 22:59
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah, and i don't think that advancements in information processing are as indicative of rapid progress as the transportation, materials science, begininng telecoms, early automation, etc. advancements of many decades ago There's a good reason that "the information age" is a thing people talk about. Information processing is a big loving deal. All of the things you mentioned have undergone massive improvements to the point where they barely resemble their early counterparts. The same thing can be said for almost every industry on the planet. Technology is advancing rapidly to the point that stuff that is 3-4 years old is considered outdated and can be replaced with a new machine that's easily twice as good for the same price. Stop thinking in terms of your smartphone and start thinking about how much actual industrial progress has been made.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 23:11
|
|
|
Dirk the Average posted:Technology is advancing rapidly to the point that stuff that is 3-4 years old is considered outdated and can be replaced with a new machine that's easily twice as good for the same price. Stop thinking in terms of your smartphone and start thinking about how much actual industrial progress has been made. i dont own a smartphone really though you're just pointing at computers over and over. i get it, you think computers are amazing, we've established this. people live withoout computers, they don't live without internal combustion or electricity
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 23:15
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:computers are really fun and obviously this is an unpopular opinion in a venue populated by computer addicts (seriously who still posts on forums) but if you take a step back and think about what your life would be like if you didn't have a computer again, ever, or a smartphone, or the internet, it wouldn't be quite the dark ages step backwards that not having electricity would be. or not having petrochemically derived medicine. or plastics How many of those medicines and plastics or other compounds were made through the use of computers, even if "only" to speed up the research tremendously? You're really disregarding how extremely integrated in to your life computers are. If computers (in all forms) stopped working right now western civilization would basically collapse. Most vehicles build in the last 15-20 years would stop working, air travel would be dead, pretty much all our medical equipment advances in the last several decades would be gone. You are dismissing the keystone of the world's rapid technological advances of the last several decades despite apparently working in software. Technology today is literally beyond what scifi thought of 50 years ago. In the 1950s their technology was not far beyond what people thought of in the 1900s (except perhaps nuclear weapons).
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 23:15
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:How many of those medicines and plastics or other compounds were made through the use of computers, even if "only" to speed up the research tremendously? You're really disregarding how extremely integrated in to your life computers are. If computers (in all forms) stopped working right now western civilization would basically collapse. Most vehicles build in the last 15-20 years would stop working, air travel would be dead, pretty much all our medical equipment advances in the last several decades would be gone. well if we magically remove any piece of modern technology the results will be catastrophic, i fail to see how the actions of malicious wizards proves your point that technological advancement is more rapid now than it was previously Evil Fluffy posted:You are dismissing the keystone of the world's rapid technological advances of the last several decades despite apparently working in software. Technology today is literally beyond what scifi thought of 50 years ago. In the 1950s their technology was not far beyond what people thought of in the 1900s (except perhaps nuclear weapons). again, things changing rapidly now does not mean that they could not have changed more rapidly, previously. i may be running at a high rate of speed at the moment you observe me run, but your observations of a moment in time does not mean that i was running less slowly before. rates vary over time, this is a known fact, and it's entirely likely a rate of change could have been higher at a point previous to now
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:well if we magically remove any piece of modern technology the results will be catastrophic, i fail to see how the actions of malicious wizards proves your point that technological advancement is more rapid now than it was previously Malicious wizards have started removing your punctuation as well I see.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 23:19
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:i dont own a smartphone Yes, but people don't innovate without computers, which was your core question. Computers have sped up the pace of innovation and technological progress to a breakneck speed. I keep going back to them because they're the backbone of all of the R&D that takes place on the planet nowadays, simply because of how much faster they let you move. I didn't cite the idea of an engineer going from concept to prototype in a day out of nowhere. That's a huge driver of innovation and compresses what would take either weeks or a huge team of people into something that any trained person can do in a few hours.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 23:23
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:well if we magically remove any piece of modern technology the results will be catastrophic, i fail to see how the actions of malicious wizards proves your point that technological advancement is more rapid now than it was previously "Things changing rapidly now does not mean that they could not have changed more rapidly, previously" sure and that would be valid for you to use as a defense if we never recorded anything in human history but we have and that's how we can look back and see what sort of progress we had in the first half of the 20th century compared to the second. The only thing that comes close to modern development's rapid advance is the Industrial Revolution and that was not nearly as broad a change despite its benefits. The core source of modern rapid technological advancement is computing power, something you dismissed. In fact, your last post I quoted you mentioned "petrochemically derived medicine. or plastics" while ignoring that a lot of those compounds exist because R&D today is incredibly fast and efficient because of computers. Progress is made in a fraction of the time, meaning faster advancement with said research (and technology) as a result.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 23:30
|
|
|
Did you guys know that some people think the US government did 9/11?
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 23:34
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:again, things changing rapidly now does not mean that they could not have changed more rapidly, previously. i may be running at a high rate of speed at the moment you observe me run, but your observations of a moment in time does not mean that i was running less slowly before. rates vary over time, this is a known fact, and it's entirely likely a rate of change could have been higher at a point previous to now Bullshit. At no time in human history have there been more scientists and engineers with more resources at their disposal than now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 23:34
|
|
|
Has anybody seen this Loose Change video? Raises some interesting questions, IMO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3wZaWR3J_U
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 23:38
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:i dont own a smartphone Amish denialism is a new one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 23:40
|
|
|
Dirk the Average posted:Bullshit. At no time in human history have there been more scientists and engineers with more resources at their disposal than now. There's a point to be made here about how engineers of today (in particular software engineers) don't have to be the high-caliber mathematicians and inventors and encyclopedically educated experts they did in decades past, they can rely on well-established toolsets and can cruise and lay about following tutorials and StackOverflow responses and produce results that would have been incredible to the people on the cutting edge twenty or even ten years ago.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 23:40
|
|
|
Jebus - somebody needs to read his Dad's copy of Future Shock. (It's from 1970, btw)
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 00:01
|
|
|
I like how by 2015 or so we've achieved the dystopia the 1980s thought we'd take a few more decades to reach.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 00:17
|
|
|
xthetenth posted:I like how by 2015 or so we've achieved the dystopia the 1980s thought we'd take a few more decades to reach. People got some pretty loose ideas of a dystopia these days. "I have to watch ads! DYSTOPIA!!!!!!!"
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 00:31
|
|
|
boom boom boom posted:Did you guys know that some people think the US government did 9/11? hosed up, if true.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 00:35
|
|
|
The whole field of biology is changing so quickly now that it's crazy. Molecular biology and cloning basically changed everything and coupled with things like next generation sequencing and having sequenced genomes, biology is a totally different field from the 80s.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 01:23
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uOA3IqJDdY
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 01:33
|
|
|
Shbobdb posted:The whole field of biology is changing so quickly now that it's crazy. Molecular biology and cloning basically changed everything and coupled with things like next generation sequencing and having sequenced genomes, biology is a totally different field from the 80s. Gotta have another computing revolution. It's getting cheaper to just resequence all the things instead of buying more hard drives to store the sequencing output on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 01:59
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
fishmech posted:People got some pretty loose ideas of a dystopia these days. Well, also stuff like rampant police abuse and murder in a first world nation, the NSA's spying on everyone, economic difficulties, heavy corporate influence of the government, etc. It's just that everyone expected a dystopia to be smog-filled skies, Metrocops in gas masks lining up apartment blocks against the wall to shoot, and surveillance drones flying around. It creeps up a lot slower than that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 02:22
|
|
|
chitoryu12 posted:Well, also stuff like rampant police abuse and murder in a first world nation, the NSA's spying on everyone, economic difficulties, heavy corporate influence of the government, etc. By your definition pretty much the whole world has been a dystopia forever
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 02:32
|
|
|
Series DD Funding posted:By your definition pretty much the whole world has been a dystopia forever Number one on the list of non-contentious assertions.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 02:39
|
|
|
Series DD Funding posted:By your definition pretty much the whole world has been a dystopia forever And your objection is?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 02:41
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:And your objection is? If the world has always been a dystopia then the word is useless in the same way as Austrian economist's idea of "rational." It's just masturbation, dick waving over who can be the most pessimistic and who can most venomously condemn all human endeavor. I see it as a coping strategy on exactly the same vein as the conspiracy bullshit this thread is supposed to be about. Concluding that things are hosed will always be hosed and have always been hosed assuages fear of the unknown, grants one Enlightened status justifying smug superiority over the regular sheeple, and conveniently removes any responsibility to try to actually fix anything. Popular Thug Drink: what's your opinion of automated just-in-time supply chains? Blue Footed Booby fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jan 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 03:02
|
|
|
God drat it
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 03:10
|
|
|
Did you seriously just extend a quote of yourself.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 03:11
|
|
|
site posted:Did you seriously just extend a quote of yourself. I'm phone posting and not terribly bright.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 03:12
|
|
|
chitoryu12 posted:Well, also stuff like rampant police abuse and murder in a first world nation, the NSA's spying on everyone, economic difficulties, heavy corporate influence of the government, etc. So a thing that's been happening forever, a thing that's been happening since the 40s, a thing that's been happening forever, a thing that's been happening forever. You don't understand what a dystopia is. You're a whiny little brat, is what you are. Blue Footed Booby posted:If the world has always been a dystopia then the word is useless in the same way as Austrian economist's idea of "rational." It's just masturbation, dick waving over who can be the most pessimistic and who can most venomously condemn all human endeavor. I see it as a coping strategy on exactly the same vein as the conspiracy bullshit this thread is supposed to be about. Concluding that things are hosed will always be hosed and have always been hosed assuages fear of the unknown, grants one Enlightened status justifying smug superiority over the regular sheeple, and conveniently removes any responsibility to try to actually fix anything. Yeah pretty much.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 03:18
|
|
|
chitoryu12 posted:Well, also stuff like rampant police abuse Has always been a thing, throughout history, and is arguably less common (per capita) today than in most previous decades. The difference is that we're more able to pay attention to it today quote:and murder in a first world nation Murder is actually way way down in most first world nations. Since xthetenth brought up the 1980s, murder rates in the US today are half of what they were in the 1980s. quote:, the NSA's spying on everyone, This is more common today, but only because the technology that has enabled it. But public surveillance has sure as hell been going on a lot longer than you seem to believe quote:economic difficulties, Actually, the economy has been doing really, really well for the last few years. We suffer from wage stagnation, but overall the economy has been booming. Economic problems tend to come and go anyway quote:heavy corporate influence of the government, etc. lol if you think that that is only a recent phenomenon
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 03:53
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:i don't see how it's so controversial to say that things changed more rapidly in the past than they did in the present. Because the exact opposite of that is true. In nearly every sector we've advanced way further during 1950-2000 than we did during 1900-1950. Your perception of the rate of technological advancement over the last 115 years is highly inaccurate. quote:someone who is familiar with television, telephones, and radio would pretty quickly understand a smartphone, as impressive as it may be That is inaccurate. Many elderly people who grew up with television, telephones, and radio have trouble adapting to smartphone use, and a lot of effort goes towards making these devices easier for them to use.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 04:04
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:This is more common today, but only because the technology that has enabled it. But public surveillance has sure as hell been going on a lot longer than you seem to believe For example, one of the ways that the FBI et al infiltrated so many organizations through the cold war was mail and phone monitoring. And NSA surveillance of the internet has been a thing since it was the ARPANET.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 04:28
|
|
|
FBI agents used to have to dress up and go to meetings. Now they can infiltrate at their desks, yet they get paid the same amount of money. They should at least still have to dress up in funny disguises.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 05:18
|
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:FBI agents used to have to dress up and go to meetings. Now they can infiltrate at their desks, yet they get paid the same amount of money. They should at least still have to dress up in funny disguises. That was only part of the surveillance. It's not a "now" thing that they don't. Even in the 50s they could often pay someone to be the informer, or simply listen in on phone conversations - and don't believe they always had warrants either.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 05:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 07:01 |
|
|
Blue Footed Booby posted:If the world has always been a dystopia then the word is useless in the same way as Austrian economist's idea of "rational." It's just masturbation, dick waving over who can be the most pessimistic and who can most venomously condemn all human endeavor. I see it as a coping strategy on exactly the same vein as the conspiracy bullshit this thread is supposed to be about. Concluding that things are hosed will always be hosed and have always been hosed assuages fear of the unknown, grants one Enlightened status justifying smug superiority over the regular sheeple, and conveniently removes any responsibility to try to actually fix anything. That's kind of entirely backwards. Saying that the past and now are really terrible is also saying they aren't necessarily the default state of affairs and therefore there's a bunch of room for better is pointedly not saying oh hey poo poo's hosed forever guess I'll give up and be smug. I mean yeah, it's not nearly as dystopic now, it's that we've gotten some of the nifty characteristics of prior periods' literature and they're just treated as everyday things. We've got megacorps and massive invasive surveillance and other things that used to be the foundation of dystopia literature. That's what I was trying to get at, not necessarily that woo everything's gotten worse or anything.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 05:37
|
|