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alansmithee posted:Thanks, really appreciate it. Yeah I saw the Wildfire stuff required 1,000,000 damage which just seems kinda silly to me. But either way, loving the game so far. It's just amazing how interesting they actually are able to make melee classes. it's a stupid unlock criterion but it's not actually all that hard, way back when i first started playing tome i did it in a few hours on an alchemist i think. I do agree that you should just circumvent the unlocks though.
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Jan 22, 2016 06:31
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andrew smash posted:it's a stupid unlock criterion but it's not actually all that hard, way back when i first started playing tome i did it in a few hours on an alchemist i think. I do agree that you should just circumvent the unlocks though. I dropped all the locks from the extra dmans classes during testing. It was just plain less fun to have them gated away.
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Jan 22, 2016 09:00
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madjackmcmad posted:I dropped all the locks from the extra dmans classes during testing. It was just plain less fun to have them gated away. Ostensibly, TOME includes unlocks as a means of preparing you for the weirdness of some of the advanced classes. The ones you start off with are intended to be dumbo's first class, easy to play effectively, and as you get further into the game you unlock weirder but potentially more powerful classes. Good intentions aside, it's still kinda bollocks, sadly.
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Jan 22, 2016 09:36
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a lot of the fun of tome 4 is playing as those weird as poo poo classes, so unlocking them from the start is highly recommended. that and playing on adventurer mode. it's too swingy to be reliable for roguelike mode.
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Jan 22, 2016 10:45
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madjackmcmad posted:I dropped all the locks from the extra dmans classes during testing. It was just plain less fun to have them gated away. But not from Grimdark, unless you changed the requirements. I've filled out all of Necro and Legendary Armsman and not unlocked it. 
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Jan 22, 2016 11:19
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The issue with most ToME unlocks is they simply lack the innocent flavor of the Summoner unlock----no hoops, no esoteric doings, no RNG nonsense. All you need...is to witness a tree try to kill you with murderous masses of bees as a eureka moment. I do wonder what equivalent eureka moments there might've been if DG kept going at that style for the rest...
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Jan 22, 2016 16:47
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The Cursed unlock is pretty okay imo. Meet a crazy hate guy, successfully murder him, now you can be a crazy hate guy.
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Jan 22, 2016 16:56
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Jedit posted:But not from Grimdark, unless you changed the requirements. I've filled out all of Necro and Legendary Armsman and not unlocked it. Those Master's Programs are a little different, and they're high level anyway. If you get a professor in the Academy who teaches one, you're very lucky, but otherwise even after you unlock them you can't skill into them unless your mans is level 9. If I had kept the Bannermans locked away, it would be a number of interesting mechanics that someone couldn't use until they'd cleared multiple towers on a different hero. There is one more line you need to fill for Grimdark Darkmans. You are close.
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Jan 22, 2016 17:25
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Darkest Dungeon does in indeed have a fail state. Its getting screwed up enough by bad luck that you have so much boring grind to get back where you were. Its such a slog.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:40
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Bionic Dues is free until the 23rd.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:56
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Well, it's better than that turd Madjackmcmad was promoting but that's about as much praise as I'll give it.
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Jan 22, 2016 22:20
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Junkie Disease posted:Darkest Dungeon does in indeed have a fail state. Its getting screwed up enough by bad luck that you have so much boring grind to get back where you were. Its such a slog. this definitely seems to be the most common complaint about the game that isnt like "wah the devs added corpses"
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Jan 22, 2016 22:32
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dis astranagant posted:Well, it's better than that turd Madjackmcmad was promoting but that's about as much praise as I'll give it. I quite enjoyed it. It's great for putting in a few quick lunchtime sessions. Not the best game in the world for sure, but way better than the above implies. Comparing it in any way to some piece of poo poo joke game is hardly fair.
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Jan 22, 2016 22:41
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dis astranagant posted:Well, it's better than that turd Madjackmcmad was promoting but that's about as much praise as I'll give it. Bionic Dues is flawed, absolutely, but there's plenty of people who have enjoyed it and sunk ridiculous numbers of hours into it. It just never was popular enough to get the second pass that many Arcen games need to be properly polished. For my part, I bought it at normal price (or maybe on a minor sale, I forget), played it through to completion a few times, and didn't feel the need to return to it, but I also felt like I'd gotten my money's worth of enjoyment out of it.
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Jan 22, 2016 22:47
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its not a bad game but not a particularly memorable one either. for free though? why not
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Jan 22, 2016 22:52
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Bionic Dues is flawed, absolutely, but there's plenty of people who have enjoyed it and sunk ridiculous numbers of hours into it. It just never was popular enough to get the second pass that They're like the Kings of Jank
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Jan 22, 2016 23:00
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Awesome! posted:this definitely seems to be the most common complaint about the game that isnt like "wah the devs added corpses" The corpses are a moot point with the positioning working both ways. But jesus you can spend hours feeling like you got nowhere. My issue is the amount of RNG use. Sad unit? Let them blow off steam. Unit blowing off steam? RNG might make them disappear or get other problems. I'm surprised they didn't make upgrading gear randomly give you inferior gear some times rather than what you paid for.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:08
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Junkie Disease posted:The corpses are a moot point with the positioning working both ways. But jesus you can spend hours feeling like you got nowhere. My issue is the amount of RNG use. Sad unit? Let them blow off steam. Unit blowing off steam? RNG might make them disappear or get other problems. I'm surprised they didn't make upgrading gear randomly give you inferior gear some times rather than what you paid for. I felt this way exactly while playing it in early access. I can't even bring myself to play the release version. When I think of Darkest Dungeon it feels like it was a second job to me, not really fun. Just like welp gotta go grind up a new unit of type X because of some horrible critical chance that could not be avoided in any way.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:56
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If you must play it do so with the sound off, the music is godawful and the robots' quips wear out their welcome very fast. On second thought don't play it it's a poo poo game
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Jan 23, 2016 00:05
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drink_bleach posted:I felt this way exactly while playing it in early access. I can't even bring myself to play the release version. Its got a bunch of screw formation also count one of your men out boss fights that are just dumb on their head. I play for the fleeting moments that its sometimes not screwing me and its actually fun. Then I remember I have better games to play.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:08
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Banana Man posted:Oh god I'm new to these types of games and have no idea where to start. Any suggestions? Download Sil and splat a few characters to experience the best combat and some of the tightest design in a roguelike. I need to play more Sil. Caves of Qud is probably the most approachable of the open world/crazy story generator style of roguelike and there's a free ASCII version.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:43
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drink_bleach posted:I felt this way exactly while playing it in early access. I can't even bring myself to play the release version. Yeah honestly all the tiny things you have to manage for each character is what turned me off too. Also apparently unless you upgrade the bar, only one person can ever have a beer once a week, haha. It seem like every mechanic is overly "gamified" for no particular reason, and it doesn't come out better for it. It feels a little bit like a browser/phone game where all the punishing mechanics that draw everything out are put in to be ameliorated with a cash shop or something, even though they're actually not. Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 00:46
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Mercury_Storm posted:Yeah honestly all the tiny things you have to manage for each character is what turned me off too. Also apparently unless you upgrade your bar, only one person can ever have a beer once a week, haha. It feels like every mechanic is overly "gamified" for no particular reason, and it doesn't come out better for it. Given that they spend hundreds of gold pieces and are out of action for the week I suspect it's more than "a beer". Honestly, the town upgrading doesn't bother me too much since they don't cost gold and can't be lost. That said, I haven't gotten very far in the current version - it feels a lot smoother than the early releases I played back when, but I haven't reached the real disaster area of "I don't have any money, all my good dudes are dead, and only harder missions that will slaughter the guys I have left are available". (Also, I only play for like two missions at a sitting.)
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Jan 23, 2016 00:52
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all i've ever heard about darkest dungeon is that it's pretty much up it's own rear end about being ~hard~ and thus really unfun to actually play
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Jan 23, 2016 00:53
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I had no idea there was so much negative opinion about Darkest Dungeons. I just fired it up again recently and I'm loving it all over again. It's pretty grognardy, with it's boatload of stats, so if you like to see every detail about your attack choices, it's the game for you. The fact that things can go drastically wrong at at any time adds a lot of tension and makes every attack feel important. I can see how it wouldn't be for everybody, but I think it's fantastic.
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Jan 23, 2016 01:06
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As someone who really enjoys Darkest Dungeon, I'm not going to dispute that it's hard, but I don't think it's fair to say that it's "hard for the sake of being hard". The game is actually pretty nice about not locking you into a game over situation -- even in the case you lose all your characters you keep your town upgrades and your trinkets and, since hiring fresh recruits is free and there's always at least easy level missions available, it's theoretically possible to bounce back. Admittedly, if you lost all your level 3+ (or, god forbid, your level 5+) characters, it's going to be a giant pain to spend the investment to get back to that point, but hopefully you'll be able to upgrade the town along the way, which offers boosts like 50% cheaper recovery, equipment, skill unlock and upgrades, etc. You can also "fire" heroes, so if you can't afford destressing them you can always just grab a fresh batch off the wagon. The approach I have playing Darkest Dungeon is way different than perhaps something like XCOM. The relatively swingy nature of the game means that it's incredibly critical to know when a situation is souring and to bail the gently caress out. In the event of a retreat you still keep all the loot you've gathered, so it's not a total wash, but the game makes clear very quickly that "trying to make the best of a bad situation" is a very easy way to end up with four dead heroes -- even a relatively healthy party needs to practice risk management and have a back door in case your frontliner is dealt critical damage. The 'penalties' for a failed mission is also pretty soft -- honestly, any situation where you come back with more gold and resources than you left counts as a win in my book, and actually finishing it out is a pleasant bonus objective. When I unlocked the level 5+ missions I bailed out the first three times, then managed to beat the boss on my next try. The Death's Door mechanic is also pretty smart too, in my opinion -- which is that if a character has more than 1 HP, it will survive at 0 HP at "Death's Door". Each additional attack at Death's Door has a chance to permanently kill the character, but you can pull a character off, though the character will suffer some hefty penalties for the rest of the run. The effect of a unlucky critical is never going to kill a character, but it can really make clear that either you think you can recover (healing off Death's Door, removing DOTS, finish the fight) or is a clear sign that it's time to start attempting to retreat. I definitely think it's a difficult game, and that it can feel really drat punishing, but it's not actually just a game for people looking for the excuse of putting their arm in a sausage grinder. I've played a lot of it at this point though, so I'm admittedly biased. e: however yeah, definitely at least look up the wiki for the sector bosses, since getting your party shuffled by the siren / the crew when you're packing an arbalest / leper kicks you in the balls when you're not expecting it. RoboCicero fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 01:06
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Johnny Joestar posted:all i've ever heard about darkest dungeon is that it's pretty much up it's own rear end about being ~hard~ and thus really unfun to actually play It's really really not, and a bunch of people in the thread back when it first hit early access were actually disappointed at how easy it is. It has one of those unfortunate but super common setups where the very beginning is more difficult than the entirety of the midgame, so I can see why someone would form that opinion if they had a run of bad luck/didn't figure out the systems as quickly as they should have, but as long as you don't pretend your favorite character dying is a fail state it's pretty forgiving.
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Jan 23, 2016 02:16
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picked up bionic dues, launched the game, it crashed. launched it again, went into settings and toggled off fullscreen mode. it reset itself to a tiny default resolution, so I set the window size to my monitor's. now all of my mouseclicks are invisibly offset to where they would be in the smaller resolution, making it almost impossible to get back into the settings menu and fix it. nice........
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Jan 23, 2016 02:17
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 worth every cent I paid for it
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Jan 23, 2016 02:21
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hm. a game about carefully hoarding your ammunition over the course of long, incredibly repetitive levels filled with identical enemies. check, please!
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Jan 23, 2016 03:27
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RoboCicero posted:The approach I have playing Darkest Dungeon is way different than perhaps something like XCOM. The relatively swingy nature of the game means that it's incredibly critical to know when a situation is souring and to bail the gently caress out. In the event of a retreat you still keep all the loot you've gathered, so it's not a total wash, but the game makes clear very quickly that "trying to make the best of a bad situation" is a very easy way to end up with four dead heroes -- even a relatively healthy party needs to practice risk management and have a back door in case your frontliner is dealt critical damage. The 'penalties' for a failed mission is also pretty soft -- honestly, any situation where you come back with more gold and resources than you left counts as a win in my book, and actually finishing it out is a pleasant bonus objective. This man gets it. also I don't know what kind of roguelikes you have been playing Junkie Disease, but DD is much easier / easier to understand than most of them. The only thing you can't see is the turn order, but all the stats are listed along with hit chances etc. I guess maybe if you are coming from something like sproggiwood then DD would seem overwhelming. Coming from any other roguelike, the barrier for entry is surprisingly low.
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Jan 23, 2016 03:41
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:This man gets it. Its not the easier part its the giant slog of a grind for upgrading and the excitement that comes with losing key components or being punished for having classes that are pretty much dead on a shuffle. Mostly its a excellent wrapper on a game that for me is rarely fun and seems to go out of its way to be tedious. There is so many elements that if they removed I don't think anyone would miss them. Diseases, members lost/out on a bender, and the slow pace of upgrading the city don't contribute to my enjoyment but they sure add extra turns of just doing sorties. Oh and my level 3 guy wont go fight the wizend hag because its beneath him is just a gate to put the difficulty balance in my court.
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Jan 23, 2016 04:37
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Junkie Disease posted:Its not the easier part its the giant slog of a grind for upgrading and the excitement that comes with losing key components or being punished for having classes that are pretty much dead on a shuffle. Mostly its a excellent wrapper on a game that for me is rarely fun and seems to go out of its way to be tedious. There is so many elements that if they removed I don't think anyone would miss them. Diseases, members lost/out on a bender, and the slow pace of upgrading the city don't contribute to my enjoyment but they sure add extra turns of just doing sorties. Are you playing a different game than the rest of us? Grinding for heirlooms is absolutely not required, you'll get plenty of them in the course of leveling up your guys. Diseases and benders are meant to encourage you to diversify your team... which I guess you aren't doing, given the solution to "help my leper got shifted to the back row by this fish-shove and he's now useless" is "bring a different team or change some skills around." Not exactly rocket surgery.
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Jan 23, 2016 04:46
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packetmantis posted:Are you playing a different game than the rest of us? Grinding for heirlooms is absolutely not required, you'll get plenty of them in the course of leveling up your guys. Diseases and benders are meant to encourage you to diversify your team... which I guess you aren't doing, given the solution to "help my leper got shifted to the back row by this fish-shove and he's now useless" is "bring a different team or change some skills around." Not exactly rocket surgery. No its not rocket surgery. Diversifying is also a part of the game that is forced and that is fine. Cant choose your faves often due to the stress or the other issues that come with a run. But that is not the problem I have. I stated them already. Its the tedium and like Mercery_Storm said, much of gamey elements make the game better just longer.
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Jan 23, 2016 04:52
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Junkie Disease posted:Its not the easier part its the giant slog of a grind for upgrading and the excitement that comes with losing key components or being punished for having classes that are pretty much dead on a shuffle. Mostly its a excellent wrapper on a game that for me is rarely fun and seems to go out of its way to be tedious. There is so many elements that if they removed I don't think anyone would miss them. Diseases, members lost/out on a bender, and the slow pace of upgrading the city don't contribute to my enjoyment but they sure add extra turns of just doing sorties. Bring a more diverse team if you are getting destroyed in a shuffle(is this even possible?) You don't need to grind to level up the city. Just focus on the stagecoach then the guild and armorsmith as your guys hit the next level. You should have plenty of resources once this happens because you should have a large roster of people to level. Have more teams of dudes so you can afford to lose a few to stress relief rng which rarely happens anyways. I'm sorry you can't stomp on the level 1 boss with level 6 dudes. Honestly it just sounds like this isn't your kind of game. Sounds like you want to get your perfect party going where nothing bad happens to them and crush the game. Or you are bad at it. Or both. Junkie Disease posted:No its not rocket surgery. Diversifying is also a part of the game that is forced and that is fine. Cant choose your faves often due to the stress or the other issues that come with a run. But that is not the problem I have. I stated them already. Its the tedium and like Mercery_Storm said, much of gamey elements make the game better just longer. Yea it sucks the game makes you play the game.
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Jan 23, 2016 04:53
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Anyone play Starward Rogue? It came up as I was flipping through Humble Bundle.
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Jan 23, 2016 05:10
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I'm sorry you can't stomp on the level 1 boss with level 6 dudes. Please stop arguing in bad faith. The "my dudes leveled up right at the end of a run so now they won't fight the boss I was preparing them for" issue sucks. The tedium of re-playing the game to get a new batch ready for the boss that wiped out team A because team B is focused on clearing groups quickly and both of your Lepers are out of commision anyway, it sucks. Darkest Dungeon was fun but no thank you to playing it more.
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Jan 23, 2016 05:13
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Bring a more diverse team if you are getting destroyed in a shuffle(is this even possible?) I love CKII and the "oh poo poo happens" and your job is to spin it to your favor. And I am playing largely your way its just so drat slow. And I don't want to give much away but bosses like the Hag are not fun for many teams. If you happen to have the right set up to beat her its due to some luck or you come back with the right team. Reminds me of the dumb hell that is FTL's final boss. Its OK to not like darkest dungeon. Its going in my bin with Dreadmor of "I don't have the patience to find this games "fun"".
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Jan 23, 2016 05:26
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Junkie Disease posted:I love CKII Junkie Disease posted:[Darkest Dungeon is] so drat slow 
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Jan 23, 2016 05:57
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edit: that too lol ^^Junkie Disease posted:I love CKII and the "oh poo poo happens" and your job is to spin it to your favor Yes this is very different from Darkest Dungeon when you eat a crit and someone is at death's door or you get into a surprised in a random encounter and your party is shuffled or
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Jan 23, 2016 06:10
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