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goose fleet posted:It makes you wonder what they fought about, and if it was really worth dying over, considering that thousands of years later nobody has any idea why they did it Exactly! It could be like the chief of tribe A said some dumb poo poo to chief of tribe B and welp, that can't stand. I guess it could also be like a life or death access to livestock/grain situation, but considering humaty I'm gonna go with humans being assholes.
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Jan 23, 2016 01:35
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goose fleet posted:It makes you wonder what they fought about, and if it was really worth dying over, considering that thousands of years later nobody has any idea why they did it Snapchat A Titty posted:Exactly! It could be like the chief of tribe A said some dumb poo poo to chief of tribe B and welp, that can't stand. I guess it could also be like a life or death access to livestock/grain situation, but considering humaty I'm gonna go with humans being assholes. Unless you do a DNA test and find that the local population of 5,000,000+ people are related to tribe B and none to tribe A, then it sounds like it was wildly successful. A dead neighboring tribe doesn't compete for food.
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Jan 23, 2016 01:44
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Captain Postal posted:Unless you do a DNA test and find that the local population of 5,000,000+ people are related to tribe B and none to tribe A, then it sounds like it was wildly successful. A dead neighboring tribe doesn't compete for food. Obviously. Not sure what you're getting at? All nature is constantly fighting for survival, it's the lmao "nature" of the world. Animals, and thus humans, fight too. It's only now within the last several thousand years that we have an actual awareness of our continuity of existence across generations that we're realizing that we're loving the world up. I'm gonna excuse everything humanity did until say the invention of writing ca. 5ky ago. Animals are assholes, but it's usually not a problem. When humanity is an rear end in a top hat, it's either an extinction event or a climate change.
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Jan 23, 2016 01:55
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Sounds like the doctrine of "total depravity" to me!
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Jan 23, 2016 02:04
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Nessus posted:Sounds like the doctrine of "total depravity" to me! I def. don't vouch for it. I'm all about kindness to strangers, not from a religous angle, but just fuckin don't be an rear end in a top hat angle. but im also a pessimist. I'm pretty sure humanity wont be able to stop themselves, so look forward to rising oceans and temperatures and storms and poo poo. i guess i should only say that to the rich cause everyone else will be dead.
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Jan 23, 2016 02:09
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At least we'll see it happen in 4k.
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Jan 23, 2016 02:23
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Total Depravity would be a great name for a punk band.
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Jan 23, 2016 02:26
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FreudianSlippers posted:Total Depravity would be a great name for a punk band.
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Jan 23, 2016 02:47
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I bet it was over a pair of fly-rear end prehistoric Nikes
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Jan 23, 2016 03:29
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:noted assholes like Jared Diamond. I saw him on a National Geographic special firing a harquebus in a demonstration, and he squinted and cowered like a turbowuss doing it. Shameful
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Jan 23, 2016 04:20
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coronatae posted:It also smelled much better! The streets of Tenochtitlan were regularly cleaned and some clever engineering gave the city a steady supply of fresh water from the surrounding mountains. It blew the Spaniards' minds to see a city not covered in a thick layer of literal human poo poo and other fun things. Aztecs also valued cleanliness and bathed regularly, with the emperor himself bathing twice a day. I find something really ironic about the fact that the same group of people who actively rejected all forms of sanitation for centuries also ended up dominating the world. Could you imagine that? Meeting these somewhat taller European dudes, with metal forged weapons and horses and other neato poo poo, who by the way, smelled loving awful.
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Jan 23, 2016 06:23
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While they were certainly less sanitary than the apparent world average, I thought the middle aged Europeans did, like, wash their hands and faces pretty regularly and would scrub up, change clothes, and so on fairly regularly. They weren't making GBS threads in their own pants 24/7 or anything.
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Jan 23, 2016 06:38
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Nessus posted:While they were certainly less sanitary than the apparent world average, I thought the middle aged Europeans did, like, wash their hands and faces pretty regularly and would scrub up, change clothes, and so on fairly regularly. They weren't making GBS threads in their own pants 24/7 or anything.
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Jan 23, 2016 06:52
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They certainly did, but were not as big on full-body bathing. I've seen some sources assert that at this time the Spanish were particularly anti-bathing because it was associate with ritual bathing done before Muslim prayer, what with the Reconquista and all. However, I am not a historian.
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Jan 23, 2016 07:09
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is there a reason early modern europeans shifted to being stinky dirtballs?
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Jan 23, 2016 07:11
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The American stereotype that Europeans are smelly, rude, and dress weird has been true for at least 500 years
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Jan 23, 2016 07:50
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I recall an anecdote from history class that the first impression Muslims had about crusaders was that they perpetually smelled like meat.
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Jan 23, 2016 07:58
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I'll start this fact (actually 2 facts) off with a little bit of context. In the Roman military, there was a rank of warriors called the Triarii (Tree-are-ee-eye) that were the oldest and most experienced of the others in their formations. The others being Hastati, the youngest and most inexperienced, and Prinicipes, basically the middle children. In Roman battle tactics, the Triarii were placed at the back of formations, and used as a last resort. This spawned the idiom "It's come to the Triarii," which as you might imagine means "this is pretty serious" or something like that. Given that they were so rarely used, I've heard (that means it may not be necessarily be a fact, but just enjoy it, okay?) that they were told by their commanders sometimes to sit on the ground like children, simply for their reputation of charging into battle despite orders not to. Even less likely to be true is that one time a commander placed his Triarii at the front because he had heard there may be a mutiny due to their discontent with the lack of battle they received. I got all this from here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iz1_UwD2Fw
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Jan 23, 2016 07:58
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Actually the 'Rapa Nui were a wholly destructive force who destroyed themselves stupidly' thing is almost certainly a myth, largely propagated by noted assholes like Jared Diamond. They probably worked really hard to develop the island and increase it's human carrying capacity. Their massive death toll was almost entirely due to the importation of Western diseases post-contact. The research is still developing but it has a hell of a lot more backing it than anything Rapa Nui critics like Diamond have put out. Thanks for this. Any time I get a new way to point out how Jared Diamond sucks I'm pumped.
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Jan 23, 2016 09:06
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CainsDescendant posted:I recall an anecdote from history class that the first impression Muslims had about crusaders was that they perpetually smelled like meat. Well remember that right before the first crusade Avicenna had been kicking around and had, in addition to sort-of inventing the scientific method, done a lot to popularize the connection between bathing and health, had pioneered what we would consider the first scientifically studied exercise regimens and also learned a poo poo ton about how to make essential oils. And then also bathing is a huge part of Islam in general, so the Islamic world (well, the developed Islamic world) was basically the nicest smelling, best bathed, healthiest place in the world at the time. It wasn't really until years of invasion and fighting would lead to the rise of reactionary extremely right wing and orthodox Islamic sects like the one pushed by the followers of Al-Ghazali (not really he himself as many people claim, more the schools he influenced) got on a really "back to the olden times" bent and things started sliding backwards. Also post crusades the struggles within the faith, civil war and Tamerlane really did a number on a lot of the infrastructure that was already in pretty poor shape post-crusades anyway and so things like a lot of the great bath houses that dated back hundreds of years got blown up and never rebuilt, especially once large portions of the holy land started getting passed back and forth on a yearly basis. It's not entirely fair to the Europeans however. In the early Crusades especially many of the combatants were Romans who had a strong bathing culture and love of perfume so they would have smelled OK, and the Varangians were also notorious goodsmellers. It was more once you got these hordes of guys from mainland Europe who, to be fair, were in foreign territory so it's not like they were going to build baths, and who also had exactly 0 experience with the concept of a arid desert and so we also really really not dressed for the weather (a lot of crusaders adopted semi-Muslim styled loose fitting clothes, especially pants, over time because tights make you smell like rear end and also heat stroke is a literal killer). They did at least try to bathe some of the time, it's even what (maybe) killed Barbarossa.
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Jan 23, 2016 09:36
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Kenning posted:Thanks for this. Any time I get a new way to point out how Jared Diamond sucks I'm pumped. I'm honestly curious to find out just how much Diamond sucks, and why.  I've only read Guns, Germs and Steel, and while it was an enjoying and interesting read at the time I've since heard that there's simply no support for the claims he makes. Feel free to elaborate.
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Jan 23, 2016 10:53
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Fun fact about the natives living in Mexico when the Spaniards showed up! One of the reasons the Spanish considered the Aztecs and pals primitive and stupid was because they didn't have steel. Well, their metalworking wasn't that great in general and they were more concerned with decorative and utilitarian stuff rather than implements of war. This was especially true of decorative stuff; they liked experimenting with gold or silver alloys to make good looking things. They had copper axes and what have you but they didn't see metal as Europeans did. See, the issue was that Europeans decided that civilization always develops the way it did in Europe and you have specific orders that things are developed in. Metalworking was a big one because, let's face it, for European civilizations iron is a huge loving deal. What they ignored was that the Aztecs, Mayans, and such had easy access to poo poo loads of obsidian and made their tools out of it. Obsidian is sharper than steel when used properly and they figured out obsidian tool making before they figured out metal working. When they learned how to make copper and bronze they considered it shittier than obsidian and shuffled metalworking off into a secondary role. The obsidian club/sword things that Aztec troops used were reported to cut right through a horse's neck in a single swing with ease.
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Jan 23, 2016 11:27
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Fact: the Julio-Claudian family was hosed up: Spot the man who married his niece.
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Jan 23, 2016 12:30
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charles_ii.jpg
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Jan 23, 2016 12:39
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Pornographic Memory posted:is there a reason early modern europeans shifted to being stinky dirtballs? Public bathouse was shut down because they were seen as immoral and people began to believe that covering your pores with a layer of dirt was healthy. In the 19th century bathing had been taboo for so long that books on how to wash yourself had to be made.
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Jan 23, 2016 14:08
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Kennel posted:charles_ii.jpg Just murder and suicide instead of horrible generations-spanning incest. Fact: the Julio-Claudian emperors managed to wipe out their entire family.  (The chart doesn't specify that Vipsania, first wife of Tiberius (the Emperor), was from Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa's first marriage. Tiberius was forced to divorce Vipsania and then marry Agrippa's second wife/his own wife's step-mother/his own step-sister. So that's more confusing pseudo-incest.) The people crossed out died either by murder, execution, or suicide. I probably missed somebody - I couldn't Question mark means that they're thought to have been murdered. Germanicus, nephew of Emperor Tiberius, was a popular general who died young under suspicious circumstances. Tiberius is the prime suspect. Tiberius's son Drusus was very likely murdered by his wife Julia Livilla (not to be confused with the sister of Caligula) and her lover Lucius Aelius Sejanus. Sejanus was the commander of the imperial bodyguard who effectively controlled Tiberius and the Empire. He subsequently married the widowed Livilla. All of his children were also killed, along with his wife ([supposedly her own mother Antonia had her starved to death). It also leaves out Ptolemy XV Philopator Philometor Caesar, aka "Caesarion", the son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra. He was executed on the orders of Augustus (then called Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus), so that's another cross. Some other Roman family drama, two centuries down the lane:  Flavius Julius Crispus, eldest son of Constantine the Great. Crispus was one his father's most trusted lieutenants: he fought against barbarians in Gaul, and commanded the navy against Roman rivals. He repeatedly proved himself a capable commander and a skilled leader. Constantine eventually become sole ruler of the Roman Empire. Crispus's brothers were way younger, making him the natural heir to the throne. Various honours and monuments underline his public presence. In 326, Crispus was arrested and executed on his father's orders. Fact: nobody loving knows why. One of the few clues is that soon afterwards Constantine killed his second wife, Empress Fausta, mother of his younger children. Was Crispus plotting against his ruthless father, who had seen off bigger men? Did Empress Fausta somehow persuade Constantine that Crispus was a threat, only for him to regret the hasty execution? Or was Crispus carrying out an affair with his stepmother Fausta, and they were together conspiring to usurp Constantine? Who knows. BravestOfTheLamps has a new favorite as of 22:35 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 14:35
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I thought it was because people bathed in the leftover old Roman communal baths, and when the Black Death ripped through the continent, anything communal became a deathtrap, which led to bathing being shunned.
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Jan 23, 2016 16:15
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Alhazred posted:The varangian guard was also called "the emperor's winesacks" because of they had a habit of getting shitfaced drunk. Speaking of Hagia Sophia, there's been found several runic inscriptions on the walls. If by 'runic inscriptions' you mean drunk-rear end graffiti, yes  I went and saw them a couple of years ago!Sure, they were in the runic alphabet, but basically say "Halfdan was here".
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Jan 23, 2016 16:42
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As a Nord who likes to travel, I can report that this habit is still going on to this day. "Simon and Daniel were here, 2nd of July, 2013".
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Jan 23, 2016 17:01
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Byzantine posted:I thought it was because people bathed in the leftover old Roman communal baths, and when the Black Death ripped through the continent, anything communal became a deathtrap, which led to bathing being shunned. That was part of it. It was also believed that the bath houses were one of the causes as people were laying in the same water. Which was kind of bullshit; actual, proper hygiene would probably have done a ton to make the Black Death less awful. If memory serves the church at the time wanted people to congregate in the church and started speaking out against other public places, including bath houses, pubs, and inns.
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Jan 23, 2016 17:03
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That was part of it. It was also believed that the bath houses were one of the causes as people were laying in the same water. Which was kind of bullshit; actual, proper hygiene would probably have done a ton to make the Black Death less awful. If memory serves the church at the time wanted people to congregate in the church and started speaking out against other public places, including bath houses, pubs, and inns. The bath houses made people cleaner, but also spread diseases. Pools of untreated warm water that is seldom changed are great places for bacteria.
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Jan 23, 2016 17:19
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
It's like that thing in Starship Troopers where Rico keeps getting delighted at his rapid promotions, not really getting that he's getting promoted because his superior got bugged.
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Jan 23, 2016 17:38
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Nobody ever turns down free power.
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Jan 23, 2016 17:40
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Arctic Baldwin posted:I bet it was over a pair of fly-rear end prehistoric Nikes 10k years ago is right about when we started seeing the earliest shoes/sandals, so that is actually a possibility, albeit a very very unlikely one.
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Jan 23, 2016 17:58
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SeanBeansShako posted:Nobody ever turns down free power. 
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Jan 23, 2016 17:58
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Mans posted:Sulla He's been the only guy so far who knew his limits when it came to power okay. He was the designated driver.
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Jan 23, 2016 18:07
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Time for things people don't generally talk about in Roman history with the Crisis of the Third Century. Basically to make a long and interesting story very short, Rome started falling apart after/during a string of bad emperors/power vacuums (26 emperors accepted by the senate in 50 years! :psyduckinatoga:). It got two spin-offs, the Gallic Empire and Palmyrene Empire during this time. After a while a major Gothic invasion was beaten back at Naissus, and two of the guys there became decent emperors. First was Claudius II Gothicus who beat back the Alamanni and took Hispania back from the Gallic Empire. Then after he died of the plague, Aurelian, his cavalry commander at Naissus, took over and kicked about as much rear end as any emperor. In five years he beat the Vandals, Visigoths, Palmyrenes, Persians and then finally ended the Gallic Empire. Suddenly the Roman Empire was a single entity with its border troops back in place. The economy was hosed (and that was pretty much permanent, a lot of the localized feudal economy all the way into the middle ages has its roots here), but the empire was back together. For this the Senate gave him the title Restitutor Orbis - Restorer of the World. So what was next after basically reassembling the Roman Empire and putting it in a position where it might rebuild? He was heading to campaign against Persia again, suppressing a revolt in Gaul and defeating marauders in Germany on the way, when one of his secretaries lied. Aurelian had gotten a reputation for handing out severe punishments to corrupt officials or soldiers, and afraid of what he'd do, the secretary forged a document listing the names of high officials as marked for execution by Aurelian, showed it to conspirators, who fearing for their lives killed him. That's Rome folks! SeanBeansShako posted:He's been the only guy so far who knew his limits when it came to power okay. He was the designated driver. That's more the original cool dude Marcus Agrippa who could've tried shenanigans but was totally cool being bros with Augustus and building sweet buildings. xthetenth has a new favorite as of 18:18 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 18:16
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It's a page or two late, but here's a fun fact: blueberries weren't cultivated successfully until 1916. Before then, you had to go out to wherever the bushes decided to grow.
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Jan 23, 2016 18:22
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SeanBeansShako posted:He's been the only guy so far who knew his limits when it came to power okay. He was the designated driver. He was also the guy who executed thousands of people and made a fortune selling their property. Fun Fact: One of Sulla's rivals, Quintus Sertorius, owned a white fawn that he claimed communicated with Diana.
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Jan 23, 2016 19:18
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Mans posted:It's weird how so many people desired to be emperor or be close to the emperor when you see just how few of both reach a mature age that allows them to die of natural causes. I think a good deal of the attempted usurpers were probably unwilling. The usual story with the various usurpers was that their troops decided to hail them as Emperor. This could happen against their will. It's not like they could explain it very well to the ruling Emperor.
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Jan 23, 2016 20:48
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