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Rascyc posted:Curio interaction is a massive part of the game though and extremely impactful. When new players start out they are probably clicking everything blindly and getting hosed over completely. I sympathize with people getting frustrated over that aspect of the game, because they want to interact with stuff in their shiny new game. Yeah, that's definitely true. Still, "I managed risk poorly, gently caress this game for having risk" seems to be a recurring complaint in this thread. I get it, it's natural to shake your fist at the sky when something that only has a chance to go poorly does, but you share part of the blame when you trigger every curio in sight and press on for Just One More Tile Without Food Because What Are The Odds. With the caveat that I was able to get an Ancestor's Map around week 15-20ish and managed to get what I suspect is way more secret rooms than I "should" have, my current run has been limited to two casualties to a dumb Shambler activation I half suspected would go poorly (but then every time I activate a Shambler sconce my thinking is "this can't possibly end well, let's fukken go boys") and four instances of affliction in total, one of which ended up with me being Virtuous, by playing carefully. In the absence of a proper beginner's guide, I can share a few tips that have made my runs go much more smoothly than when I first started playing: - Prioritize upgrading your Stage Coach to yield at least four heroes every week and follow that up by maxing out the Barracks, keeping the Blacksmith upgrades on par with your highest hero. By staggering Resolve levels, you can manage to bring an entire roster of 25 to Resolve level 3 and have a ton of bodies to run low level (and thus low risk) dungeons with. - Pack a ton of food, just do it. I bring 20 food when I go on Medium runs so I can always Feast, barring awful luck with map layouts like an L-shaped dungeon where you start at the angle that trigger tons of hungry events. Stress feeds off of stress and stress relief is hugely expensive, so keeping it low makes everything run smoothly. I often throw food away but not being stingy when provisioning has done wonders for the stability of my runs. - Consider getting rid of fascination quirks. You've probably been told to get rid of Kleptomaniac, and that's good advice, but Curious and Compulsive are also awful since they can trigger off *everything* (including most notably book stacks) and there's no safe dungeons for you to run. I once walked past a Shambler activation node thinking I'd come back to it once I had rested up and gotten my stress down to a good level, but then the Plague Doctor gets curious and ruins it. That was the last time I ran anything with someone that has one of those quirks. I'd also consider getting rid of more specific ones on a per-hero basis, like anything related to worship on Crusaders for example. You want to interact with curios on your terms. - Seriously never read book stacks. It's a 1/3 chance of a random positive quirk and those come easily. Everything else is neutral or bad. Just walk away. I'll agree that they could use a redesign, there are curios I will willingly roll the dice on but that one having a lackluster payout and no supply interaction means I just walk by them every time now. widespread posted:So Ablutomania is pretty much a sign for you to not go to the Coves. Why? Because people with it will wash their faces with the Brackish Tidepool's water, which may or may not be contaminated AND is a really good curio to cleanse. Brackish Tide Pools are actually one of my favorite Curios to roll the dice on since the +33% to Resistances can be huge and cleansing it gives you a pittance of stress healing and means you need to pack Antivenom for the Cove, which it isn't used for anything else in there. Did catch Vertigo and resisted another attempt at disease in my most recent Cove run, though, so maybe I should take my own advice re: risk management.
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Jan 24, 2016 21:56
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Bad Seafood posted:*Bounty Hunter yanks him to the front of the line, Highwayman shoots him point blank in the face.* *crummy bell rings* REINFORCEMENTS! I hate that stupid canon.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:00
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Krinkle posted:There are no more short missions they're all camping medium missions. I lost my party to a medium mission and now 4 random idiots gotta go camping with no food and no torches. That's why I had to restart. Twice. This is part of the appeal of the rogue like elements. You try things out, fail most of the time, but slowly learn what to do when. If that's not your cup of tea ok, but it's definitely intentional game design. Can you just cheat and look at a wiki page? Sure. You can also do that in Binding of Isaac, FTL, etc...
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Jan 24, 2016 22:02
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Wait a second, does the Trap maker setup the traps DURING combat?! This seems absurd, pulling iron maidens or spiked wheels out of his bag and essentially throwing them at the enemies seems like train-suplexing levels of ridiculous. I agree that the curio minigame's obscurity is not good design. I empathize with their desire to make things uncertain for newer players but it would probably be better if the game just had a tooltip telling you what the odds of each outcome were, crusader kings 2-style. You would need remove the silly 100% awful interactions of course, but each of those is a cheap shot anyways. At least you only need to remember only 1-2 items per curio, which is a much lighter burden than Nethack for instance.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:02
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Well this loss cost me 30 thousand gold in trinkets alone. Atleast it gave me a good reason to uninstall this grindfest.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:04
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I wonder if dark souls would have been as popular if it force-sold your equipment and delevelled you an hours worth of grinding or more after each loss.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:08
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the curio thing is pretty silly; i dont really know why the devs think hiding information from the player is interesting to deal with like if they just had the % chance of things happening and you got to pick what to do, and using an item helped mitigate the risk, that'd be better than "oh hey i can either eat poo poo until the game runs out of gotchas or just use an external resource and move on with my life". so maybe there'd be actual interesting choices involved once you realize which curios exist to make you miserable and which ones give you a 30% damage boost or w/e i guess its a bit more old school but imo that kind of gameplay mechanic was buried alive for a good reason e: and yeah i dont really care how much the game goes on about expendability, replacing guys after a wipe is actually pretty painful and boring. itd be nice to be able to pay money or something to just get a higher level guy straight off instead of going through the lowbie dungeons again and again. especially when they keep picking up the goddamn yips for the nth loving time Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Jan 24, 2016 |
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Jan 24, 2016 22:10
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Ilustforponydeath posted:I wonder if dark souls would have been as popular if it force-sold your equipment and delevelled you an hours worth of grinding or more after each loss. I mean if you fail to recover a body with a ton of souls, that's basically the same thing.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:14
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Megasabin posted:This is part of the appeal of the rogue like elements. You try things out, fail most of the time, but slowly learn what to do when. If that's not your cup of tea ok, but it's definitely intentional game design. Can you just cheat and look at a wiki page? Sure. You can also do that in Binding of Isaac, FTL, etc... Yeah I play a lot of roguelikes. Nethack has like 300 ways to figure out what things do and almost all of them kill you and I never complained that it was bad design. "you can't apply that!" for example was a message I heard a lot and it didn't loving destroy the item to teach me a lesson about what I couldn't apply or invoke or eat. If using a shovel on a stump is wrong just tell me "you can't use a shovel here" and give me back my shovel. If I splashed holy water on something and it does nothing, fine, but why did they take my shovel?
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Jan 24, 2016 22:17
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Ilustforponydeath posted:I wonder if dark souls would have been as popular if it force-sold your equipment and delevelled you an hours worth of grinding or more after each loss. Tiler Kiwi posted:the curio thing is pretty silly; i dont really know why the devs think hiding information from the player is interesting to deal with
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Jan 24, 2016 22:19
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At least the curios generally have a theme going about them with the items and pay offs. Like all the food related ones are medicinal herbs. Anything involving something cursed benefits from holy water. The worst are probably the ones that involve bandages IMO. But books? Man loving books. I probably got burned by books more times than I can count before I finally hit the wiki to see what I was missing and then realized there's literally nothing in your favor for interacting with them. At least torching a stack of books once is memorable hehehe. Wouldn't want to find that one out on a real run though!
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Jan 24, 2016 22:19
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Intimidate with the Leper own's vs big enemies. Also ok to use against dogs. It's his highest acc skill. Also always click the freaking shovel, not the hand.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:20
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Rascyc posted:At least torching a stack of books once is memorable hehehe. Wouldn't want to find that one out on a real run though! it was incredibly unamusing e: it really reminds me of mario maker; my friend plays and makes levels in it and complains incessantly about level makers doing stuff like putting in multiple choice doors where all but one kill you, or other sort of "cute" traps that either kill you outright or force you to restart; having a defense of "you should have known because x!" isn't really an excuse for abusing player trust with arbitrary punishments in the name of playing at some hardcore gaming rusemaster. i really don't want my primary consideration when playing a game to be trying to read the game developer's mind of know what random action is going to reward or punish me based on some troll logic. ok thats my whiny steam review on the matter Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jan 24, 2016 |
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Jan 24, 2016 22:21
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I am trying to figure out if my laptop can play this game. The computer has like...4 gigabytes of RAM and according to Steam this game requires at least 2...I don't really play games on the PC much, so I'm not sure what that means, but would having one program use fifty percent of my RAM be very disastrous to the running of my computer? There's no Steam demo so I can't just download a version of the game to just try and see if it works.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:23
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You should be fine, my laptop has 4GB and it runs mostly fine. (occasional crashes loading levels aside) If you run in to any unexpected issues you can always ask Steam for a refund.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:24
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I mean if you fail to recover a body with a ton of souls, that's basically the same thing. If losing souls prohibits you from accessing areas in dark souls, then it would be the same i suppose. But gently caress the characters, the trinkets took hours of grinding to get, and a double loving ambush with my last torch gone is kinda hard to plan for.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:26
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Yo if you don't want to lose a special guy or all of your guys and trinkets please just leave the dungeon. all you lose is a bit of money and a bit of stress. It's really important! I had my range crit+, range dmg+, tough skinned highwayman down to 4 or so health and lots of stress so i just retreated before I could get into another battle because I am NOT losing my friend the Loup Garou. (That's Spanish for 'wolf")
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Jan 24, 2016 22:31
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Ilustforponydeath posted:If losing souls prohibits you from accessing areas in dark souls, then it would be the same i suppose. So, at some point, the following thought went through your head: "That last ambush took a lot out of me. Another ambush could be really deadly and I'm running out of torches. I think I'll keep on going and hope I don't get ambushed a second time."
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Jan 24, 2016 22:31
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Darth Windu posted:Yo if you don't want to lose a special guy or all of your guys and trinkets please just leave the dungeon. all you lose is a bit of money and a bit of stress. It's really important! I had my range crit+, range dmg+, tough skinned highwayman down to 4 or so health and lots of stress so i just retreated before I could get into another battle because I am NOT losing my friend the Loup Garou. (That's Spanish for 'wolf") Loup Garou is French my friend, wolf in Spanish is lobo.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:32
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If you guys are running out of money, maybe you should sell some trinkets. There are tens of thousands of dungeonbux in it for you if you're even just a few weeks in.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:34
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Gabriel Pope posted:So, at some point, the following thought went through your head: "That last ambush took a lot out of me. Another ambush could be really deadly and I'm running out of torches. I think I'll keep on going and hope I don't get ambushed a second time." Or maybe bring more torches next time? that might help
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Jan 24, 2016 22:34
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TastyLemonDrops posted:If you guys are running out of money, maybe you should sell some trinkets. There are tens of thousands of dungeonbux in it for you if you're even just a few weeks in. Wait you can sell trinkets now?
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Jan 24, 2016 22:35
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I would love to sell a less plauge chance -300 speed trinket how do I sell trinkets?
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Jan 24, 2016 22:36
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Ilustforponydeath posted:If losing souls prohibits you from accessing areas in dark souls, then it would be the same i suppose. Bring more torches.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:36
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Shift-click to sell trinkets. Mouseover will tell you how much they go for.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:37
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Well, that means I'm sitting on a treasure trove of worthless poo poo. Hooray!
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Jan 24, 2016 22:38
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Seriously, I hated in the early access game that I had like 50 useless common trinkets, it feels SO good to purge them for cash.Tiler Kiwi posted:e: it really reminds me of mario maker; my friend plays and makes levels in it and complains incessantly about level makers doing stuff like putting in multiple choice doors where all but one kill you, or other sort of "cute" traps that either kill you outright or force you to restart; having a defense of "you should have known because x!" isn't really an excuse for abusing player trust with arbitrary punishments in the name of playing at some hardcore gaming rusemaster. i really don't want my primary consideration when playing a game to be trying to read the game developer's mind of know what random action is going to reward or punish me based on some troll logic. That said, I'm sorry to hear that you enjoyed the experience. I think when I did it I enjoyed it in an 'oops, i guess that makes sense' kind of way. Gabriel Pope posted:So, at some point, the following thought went through your head: "That last ambush took a lot out of me. Another ambush could be really deadly and I'm running out of torches. I think I'll keep on going and hope I don't get ambushed a second time." e: Honestly, my most memorable moment in the last week was when I actually abandoned a quest because the stupid third MacGuffin was in the worst possible place and I was just barely limping along (camping's gains were immediately lost to a costly ambush) and I saw that there were 2-3 more fights and everyone was at ~10% HP, and I just said 'gently caress it, we out'. I had less gold than usual to equip the next mission but otherwise things were fine. Honestly, I was lucky I didn't lose anybody by not abandoning earlier, but even one more encounter could have lost me 1-4 champions. FreeKillB fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Jan 24, 2016 |
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Jan 24, 2016 22:41
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the only bosses I haven't encountered at all are the sodden crews and sirens, mainly because I had more reps in the previous 3 due to early access. Well finally decided to do a Siren on week 100 and boy I felt bad for that pitiful gently caress. No resistances really so Hellion, G-Robber, and Plague Doc just kept stacking poo poo on her. Laughed when Hellion got charmed and then used PD's disorient to send her to the back, ensuring she could do absolutely nothing.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:42
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Gabriel Pope posted:So, at some point, the following thought went through your head: "That last ambush took a lot out of me. Another ambush could be really deadly and I'm running out of torches. I think I'll keep on going and hope I don't get ambushed a second time." Red Hook needs to patch in this message so it stays on the start up screen for like 10 seconds so maybe idiots will accidentally read it and understand:  I mean there are legit grips and annoyances with the game like it eating your items when you try random poo poo on curios, the UI could be better, etc. But most of the complaints here are hilarious
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Jan 24, 2016 22:42
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I mean, to be fair our brains are basically hard-wired to make poor decisions regarding risk management. The siren's song of 'I just need to reach just. one. more. room.' is quite strong compared to the voice of reason saying 'you'll make reasonable bank now if you abandon, the quest rewards are not worth the risk of losing a character into whom you've sunk thousands of gold and hours of playtime', especially since your progress in the dungeon will be viewed as a sunk cost to be recovered. When you take the risks and win it feels amazing, whereas when you chicken out it feels hollow. The _most_ optimal way to play the game is to be tediously conservative about risk to any hero above level 0-1, since grinding through apprentice dungeons with disposable scrubs is effectively an infinite gold/heirlooms faucet. Mind you, it's certainly more fun (for me at least) to take at least SOME risk with your heroes, but you really have to reevaluate once things start to go south, since a bad situation so easily cascades to a true catastrophe.
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Jan 24, 2016 22:55
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At what lvl is it a good time to lock in perks? edit; just started a mission and forgot to buy shovels...first tile is a thorny thicket..the second tile is a..thorny thicket  
GlennFinito fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jan 24, 2016 |
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Jan 24, 2016 23:02
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GlennFinito posted:At what lvl is it a good time to lock in perks? 2 is ideal so long as you've managed to invest in the cost reduction upgrades at the Sanitarium since treatment is more expensive for higher tier heroes.
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Jan 24, 2016 23:12
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GlennFinito posted:At what lvl is it a good time to lock in perks? ASAP. Things get more expensive as your characters get higher level and locking a quirk (or clearing a locked quirk) are pretty much the Most Expensive Thing, so if you get a nice one like Quickdraw loving lock that poo poo in. Glidergun fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jan 24, 2016 |
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Jan 24, 2016 23:14
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GlennFinito posted:At what lvl is it a good time to lock in perks?
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Jan 24, 2016 23:16
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FreeKillB posted:I mean, to be fair our brains are basically hard-wired to make poor decisions regarding risk management. The siren's song of 'I just need to reach just. one. more. room.' is quite strong compared to the voice of reason saying 'you'll make reasonable bank now if you abandon, the quest rewards are not worth the risk of losing a character into whom you've sunk thousands of gold and hours of playtime', especially since your progress in the dungeon will be viewed as a sunk cost to be recovered. When you take the risks and win it feels amazing, whereas when you chicken out it feels hollow. To add to this, one of the quests I currently did is pretty much a good example of poor choices. It was a "Get three grain bags" quest. All three were actually pretty close to the entrance. I didn't think to mouse over curio Icons, leading to two dead adventurers and a fight with the Collector. 
widespread fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jan 24, 2016 |
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Jan 24, 2016 23:18
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At least it becomes cheaper to recover from party wipes and whatnot the more you level up your hamlet. I prefer my roguelikes to have some sort of permanent progression system.
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Jan 24, 2016 23:20
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Thanks for the replies, guys. Is it worth saving up to lock in perks after they've reached lvl 3+? I have some nice perks I like but my sanitarium is still not fully upgraded.
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Jan 24, 2016 23:31
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I have permenant bad traits by level 1. Is that a sign I'm playing poorly? Do only the forced-curio-interactions traits merit fixing?
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Jan 24, 2016 23:32
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it depends on how much money you have and how bad the traits are, at some point you just gotta make a call
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Jan 24, 2016 23:33
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Krinkle posted:I have permenant bad traits by level 1. Is that a sign I'm playing poorly? Do only the forced-curio-interactions traits merit fixing? The "Permanent" traits can get removed by the trait removing curios as easy as any other, so just stock up on some herbs and head for the cove.
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Jan 24, 2016 23:42
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