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Based on the one demo I had of it, it seemed no worse than STAW. The faint praise here is intentional. I kind of felt like "armor" worked like shields should have in STAW.
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Jan 25, 2016 11:51
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Was it literally just dragons flying around? Like, the whole game was just "What if X-Wing, but dragons?" I legitimately don't know. Did they introduce new colors of dragons in successive waves? Did it even have waves?
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Jan 25, 2016 11:55
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It shares a lot of flaws with STAW but they added in gimmicks like ground units and most of them suck.
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Jan 25, 2016 11:56
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Kai Tave posted:Was it literally just dragons flying around? Like, the whole game was just "What if X-Wing, but dragons?" I legitimately don't know. Did they introduce new colors of dragons in successive waves? Did it even have waves? I saw a ballista once. I don't really know how that would fit into it but there it was.
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Jan 25, 2016 11:57
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It has 10 waves IIRC. You have different colours of dragons, but you get other flying creatures as well. There are also ground troops which was the only thing that actually interested me, but nobody actually played it and it was a Wizkids game so  They have released some big dragons as well which look kind of cool: bahamut, tiamat and some huge brass dragon as well.How did armour work?
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Jan 25, 2016 11:58
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There was ground poo poo, too. Like giants, and trebuchets and poo poo. And I guess you could land and claw at the ground stuff, and some of it could shoot up at the dragons? And there were other flying baddies besides dragons like wyverns and ghosts and pegasii and poo poo. Apparently there are/were 10 waves? IDK I'm not an expert on the dragon one. I will say that at least the dragon miniatures mostly looked decent out of the box. There was some actual effort there. Not as good as wangs, but closer to wangs than trekships.
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Jan 25, 2016 12:01
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Tekopo posted:It has 10 waves IIRC. Holy poo poo what? How? Who bought ten waves of this stuff? quote:and it was a Wizkids game Oh, never mind. Ten waves is like, what, a month's worth of releases?
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Jan 25, 2016 12:01
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Tekopo posted:How did armour work? iirc it prevented damage on a per attack/per round? basis, and regenerated at the end of the turn, but there were some attacks that specifically broke it so it didn't function for the rest of the game or until some other effect restored it.
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Jan 25, 2016 12:02
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lolquote:Drow Elf Ranger Expansion Pack I wonder what Drizzt Dourderns maneuver dial looks like?
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Jan 25, 2016 12:10
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Otisburg posted:iirc it prevented damage on a per attack/per round? basis, and regenerated at the end of the turn, but there were some attacks that specifically broke it so it didn't function for the rest of the game or until some other effect restored it.
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Jan 25, 2016 12:12
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Tekopo posted:That sounds pretty neat and seems to fit about D&D and ST better than X-Wing in terms of how the mechanisms work. This is what I find infuriating about Wizkids, they can get good rulesets out there (even though yeah, they took the flightpath system from FFG) but all of their other stuff (balancing, tournament structure, card interactions, quality assurance, model design/quality etc) is just shite. One of the many little things the bugged me about STAW was that there were literally dozens of cards with some variation of wording that was like "If you are at range X of an enemy ship with no active shields you may disable your remaining shields and (discard/disable) this card to (disable/discard a crew upgrade, "steal" an upgrade, etc). Conceptually it represented beaming over a boarding party to do dirt. It was a fine, thematic thing on a Star Trek game (if a bit underpowered out the gate). And it was so prevalent a sub-mechanic it's fully weird that they didn't just keyword it to Boarding action to save time and tighten things up. "Discard this card to perform a boarding action against a ship at range X for Y effect" to save having to explain exactly how it worked on every single card with shields and everything.
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Jan 25, 2016 12:21
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Otisburg posted:There was ground poo poo, too. Like giants, and trebuchets and poo poo. And I guess you could land and claw at the ground stuff, and some of it could shoot up at the dragons? And there were other flying baddies besides dragons like wyverns and ghosts and pegasii and poo poo. Apparently there are/were 10 waves?  I would actually buy this.
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Jan 25, 2016 12:36
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Your fleet is hit by a graviton surge and is pulled through a funnel into the void, a region of space that is devoid of stars and planets. This anomaly is a closed structure encased by an inert layer of subspace. The outer circumference is approximately 9 light years and matter and energy cannot penetrate it. In addition, your ships are being drained of energy at 10 times the normal rate. Suddenly, you find yourself attacked by other ships that are trapped in the void and your food and technological resources are being stolen by the attacking ships. All new arrivals always try to escape the void, but nothing seems to be able to breach it. And so, they all turn into thieves and killers. Welcome to the void. The Star Trek: Attack Wing – The Void OP Kit includes everything a store needs to run an event supporting 10 players including:
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Jan 27, 2016 14:01
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Wizkids have become self-aware, abort, abort!
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Jan 27, 2016 14:11
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It's funny how they come up with all these high concept scenario ideas and then execute them so shittily. In part because in order to make it into a tournament event with swiss rounds you have to basically go with the conceit that the primary objective is to kill the other guy and saving the whales or keeping sauron from using the sun crusher missile or whatever is just a side objective, and usually one that's not worth distracting yourself from killing the other guy to bother with. And in part because they just half-rear end it, and every scenario ends up with dozens of cards that interact with the objectives and conditions in unclear and unclarified ways.
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Jan 27, 2016 14:19
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That's just part of the immersion factor of STAW, they want you and your opponent to :technobabble: your way into shaping the rules in a way that is favourable to you. They think of everything. Also the confusion that you feel when reading the rules is the confusion that the characters in Star Trek feel when they find something weird and alien.
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Jan 27, 2016 14:22
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Tekopo posted:That's just part of the immersion factor of STAW, they want you and your opponent to :technobabble: your way into shaping the rules in a way that is favourable to you. They think of everything. Also the confusion that you feel when reading the rules is the confusion that the characters in Star Trek feel when they find something weird and alien. I like that. It's art. It's thematic in the same way as Arkham horror. Sadly, it doesn't translate well for board gamers where we have trouble pantomiming clues for party games, much less full blown method acting.
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Jan 27, 2016 15:28
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Star Trek isn't even giving out cardboard tokens with their OP kits anymore and is dead before the year is out, calling it. Meanwhile X-Wing is having a goddamn eight nation, 3 day open tournament with the top 8 getting a ticket to Celebration.
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Jan 27, 2016 20:31
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I honestly don't understand WizKids. The cost of actually making a balanced system can't be that much greater than an unbalanced system.
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Jan 27, 2016 23:13
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PJOmega posted:I honestly don't understand WizKids. The cost of actually making a balanced system can't be that much greater than an unbalanced system. When they went to monthly releases maps almost exactly to about the time balance went out the window, though the biggest offender was IIRC the last of the bimonlthy releases. The hilarious thing is that it feels like they overshot the mark so much that they're wildly over-correcting now, and each release seems to be a thematic ship you would never actually put on the table, and a bunch of upgrades that are either well below the meta or quite literally "existing upgrade, but objectively, literally worse."
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Jan 27, 2016 23:21
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Well, for a game like X-wing, it kind of is, because the play testing has to be extensive, time-consuming and expensive in order to achieve balance, and the more ships you add the harder it gets. It's relatively cheap to just come up with a bunch if cards, not even check what is present already (lol @ corborite manuever), package that stuff and release it. X-wing has gaps of at least 4 months if not more between waves, wizkids had 1 month gaps, cause they just had to squeeze that cash cow dry before people wised up. All the extra time spent on X-wing is time spent pay testing and FFG are almost starting to become better at it as time progresses because they have institutional knowledge of their products.
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Jan 27, 2016 23:26
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Flight Path was never a good fit for Star Trek anyway. Trek's rare battles were never dogfights. Even if FFG snapped up the Trek license and set out to make STAW, it would still be a poor Trek game.
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Jan 28, 2016 06:28
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Flight Path was never a good fit for Star Trek anyway. Trek's rare battles were never dogfights. Even if FFG snapped up the Trek license and set out to make STAW, it would still be a poor Trek game. If FFG had the Trek liscence they would have made something like Armada... but not exactly like, since fighters aren't a "thing" in Trek. Ironically, fighters are TOTALLY a "thing" in STAW, to where a very competitive build is 3 stands of fighters and the bare minimum requisite "carrier" ships for them." They came up with some silver-bullet style fighter hate upgrades to address this, and promptly released them via limited release event boosters that are in short supply. 
Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 06:32
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Eh, flight path is fine, it simply couldn't be a carbon copy of Wangs. A lot of 3 and 4 turns, firing arcs on the sides. The default could have been x-wing large bases (knife Fighters like defiant being small based), but that would have cost money. The base difference, that of each ship being crew heavy, gave a good point of differentiation. But the rest? Garbage. Also, additional playtesting time means more time between products, yes. But it also means lower production costs, higher player retention, etc, etc. WizKids is feeling a lot like late 90s AEG with their stupid levels of churn. Which didn't work for AEG releasing a different game every couple of months and certainly won't work now.
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Jan 28, 2016 10:13
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I would have preferred the directional shields/shield repair, more tactical feel of Armada for a Star Trek game. Having to reinforce certain shields sectors feels very treky to me (mostly because I was a fan of Starfleet Command). As well as that, the different coloured attack dice for Armada fit well with the variety of different weapon types that Star Trek have, what with disruptors, phasers and photon torpedoes, which all could be represented by different dice, much like in Armada you have red for turbolasers, blue for ion cannons and black for ordnance. It would fit so well and even considering that, I still wouldn't want Wizkids to make an Armada-like game.
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Jan 28, 2016 10:51
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I mean, Marvel at the very least must want the miniatures license back, right?
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Jan 28, 2016 11:28
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Jonas Albrecht posted:I mean, Marvel at the very least must want the miniatures license back, right? Mmmmmmmmmmayyyyybe? I don't really know what's up with the Marvel side of Disney/Marvel these days with regard to nerd game licenses and the like. Disney seems perfectly happy to let FFG be FFG and produce every Star Wars game they can conceive of, but the last Marvel licensed tabletop game was the Marvel Heroic line published by Margaret Weiss which was unceremoniously terminated after what people assumed was Marvel suddenly and without a lot of forewarning jacking the license fees out of MWP's reach. There was an announcement followed by a one week deadline and then every MWP product was pulled from digital distribution. A couple supplements were in the pipeline when it came down, so it really was pretty sudden. I'm not saying it's not Marvel's prerogative to do so if they feel like it, it just kind of came out of left field. They don't seem to give much of a poo poo about Clix though, so either the right hand doesn't care what the left hand is doing or Clix sells well enough that Marvel's content to let it ride, Wizkids quality be damned.
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Jan 28, 2016 11:50
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nm
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Jan 28, 2016 11:57
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double nm
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Jan 28, 2016 11:59
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Tekopo posted:Having to reinforce certain shields sectors feels very treky to me Shuffling energy tokens around should be like half of the gameplay in a star trek space battle game.
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Jan 28, 2016 12:23
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shield quadrants is pretty common when people try going hog wild with modifying it.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:11
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Otisburg posted:shield quadrants is pretty common when people try going hog wild with modifying it.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:35
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Change the thread to reference Armada instead 
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Jan 28, 2016 13:40
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I forgot about the emote, but it is perfect for this thread. Maybe a mix of that and 
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Jan 28, 2016 13:43
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Tekopo posted:I would have preferred the directional shields/shield repair, more tactical feel of Armada for a Star Trek game. Having to reinforce certain shields sectors feels very treky to me (mostly because I was a fan of Starfleet Command). As well as that, the different coloured attack dice for Armada fit well with the variety of different weapon types that Star Trek have, what with disruptors, phasers and photon torpedoes, which all could be represented by different dice, much like in Armada you have red for turbolasers, blue for ion cannons and black for ordnance. It would fit so well and even considering that, I still wouldn't want Wizkids to make an Armada-like game. Yeah. Not saying armada wouldn't be better, but flight path certainly should have been able to work. If only WizKids wasn't comically inept.
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Jan 28, 2016 22:28
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FFG is cool and good. I'm legit happy to have a game company that doesn't actively screw me at every stage of the process. Hell the rules and balance are so tight I don't even care the business model is focused on getting me to buy all the things. I know everything I buy is going to be at worst a cool model and some new abilities for the ships I like. Buy wangs and armas.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:48
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Somewhere, a copy of Star Fleet Battles lies disused, weeping.
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Jan 29, 2016 21:34
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Madurai posted:Somewhere, a copy of Star Fleet Battles lies disused, weeping. God, I'd kill for arcade mode SFB with STAW models.
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Jan 29, 2016 23:58
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You could take the Flight path engine and make a rules compendium that is remotely balanced. Not familiar with SFB but it shouldn't be impossible.
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Jan 30, 2016 01:09
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Feb 1, 2016 07:56
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